Jeebus Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Here's what I don't understand. If an American dude in Times Square were to go on national tv and burn the national flag of, say, Mexico or Canada, wouldn't that offend a lot of people? It'd start up a riot wouldn't it? Why is it not offensive to Americans when someone burns an American flag? Because the United States as a whole isn't a crybaby nation that wears its feelings on its shoulders. Sure we delicate flower & moan, but do we ever actaully do anything about anything that is done to us, the way other nations do? I like to think of this as an asset. I'd be ashamed and worried if we rioted over cartoons & burning flags. EDIT: Red, I like my answer better. It's more John Wayne, or even Clint Eastwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 EDIT: Red, I like my answer better. It's more John Wayne, or even Clint Eastwood. I do have to agree with you. It would seem that tough guys would say, "I don't need a Constitutional Amendment, I'll kick his ass myself". But, conservative tough guys appears to be a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncoby Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Here's what I don't understand. If an American dude in Times Square were to go on national tv and burn the national flag of, say, Mexico or Canada, wouldn't that offend a lot of people? It'd start up a riot wouldn't it? Why is it not offensive to Americans when someone burns an American flag?Dont be stewpid. It IS offensive! So is Hustler Magazine. So is being mean spirited or cold hearted, but we dont re-write the consitution to address it.If burning a flag is offensive to you, dont do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 Here's what I don't understand. If an American dude in Times Square were to go on national tv and burn the national flag of, say, Mexico or Canada, wouldn't that offend a lot of people? It'd start up a riot wouldn't it? Why is it not offensive to Americans when someone burns an American flag? It is offensive to some-1stmoon for example-but you have to get beyond the offense and realize that once you muck up the constitution with idiotic amendments against burning a piece of cloth or denying rights to a couple of guys who just want to take care of each other grow old together, then you have begun a trip on a slippery slope. Isn't it easier for the 1stmoons of the world to just go on and be perpetually pissed than muck up the document that has held us in good stead for so long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Here's what I don't understand. If an American dude in Times Square were to go on national tv and burn the national flag of, say, Mexico or Canada, wouldn't that offend a lot of people? It'd start up a riot wouldn't it? Why is it not offensive to Americans when someone burns an American flag?It is very offensive. Offensive enough for a constitutional ammendment? Probably not, but it makes for a good voter pandering issue.Ooops....sorry for the redundant reply. Red and Jeebus pretty much answered the question, quite well, earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Because the United States as a whole isn't a crybaby nation that wears its feelings on its shoulders. Sure we delicate flower & moan, but do we ever actaully do anything about anything that is done to us, the way other nations do?From what I understand, Americans bought and hung up American flags in record numbers for support after September 11th. Does that make Americans crybabies for being patriotic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 From what I understand, Americans bought and hung up American flags in record numbers for support after September 11th. Does that make Americans crybabies for being patriotic?no, but it makes us kneejerk reactionists (and massive consumerists) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 It is offensive to some-1stmoon for example-but you have to get beyond the offense and realize that once you muck up the constitution with idiotic amendments against burning a piece of cloth...But to some people, their country's flag means more than just a piece of cloth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 It is offensive to some-1stmoon for example-but you have to get beyond the offense and realize that once you muck up the constitution with idiotic amendments against burning a piece of cloth or denying rights to a couple of guys who just want to take care of each other grow old together, then you have begun a trip on a slippery slope. Isn't it easier for the 1stmoons of the world to just go on and be perpetually pissed than muck up the document that has held us in good stead for so long? What makes me unhappy is the fact that this is a further errosion of nationalism. Part of a bigger pic. Enlightened non nationalistic people are helping me to get just that much closer to early retirement. I know the effects of non-nationalism and it can be a very bad thing. So far it has helped to line my pockets and it will do the same for others if the trend continues. Mass ignorance and blindness is good for people that recognize how to capitalize on it....... Red, if you are capable, try working on responses other than nazi and kkk to describe proud patriotic Americans that love the flag and do not believe in burning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 But to some people, their country's flag means more than just a piece of cloth... I understand but it should not mean more than the piece of paper that defends it's burning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 From what I understand, Americans bought and hung up American flags in record numbers for support after September 11th. Does that make Americans crybabies for being patriotic?That makes no sense. If we would have rioted in the streets and burned down all the mosques & persecuted the muslim community as a nation, then yes, we would have been a nation of crybabies. Instead, we did as you said, we all bought a flag, posted it, saluted it, and went back to our lives. There's nothing crybaby about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 What makes me unhappy is the fact that this is a further errosion of nationalism. Part of a bigger pic. Enlightened non nationalistic people are helping me to get just that much closer to early retirement. I know the effects of non-nationalism and it can be a very bad thing. So far it has helped to line my pockets and it will do the same for others if the trend continues. Mass ignorance and blindness is good for people that recognize how to capitalize on it.......Red, if you are capable, try working on responses other than nazi and kkk to describe proud patriotic Americans that love the flag and do not believe in burning it.Apparently, your nationalistic fervor prevented you from comprehending my post. The political groups I listed all enjoy freedom of speech. Many of us find the speech made by these groups to be offensive and repugnant. The KKK, in particular, uses its own freedom of speech and assembly to espouse the the limiting of civil rights of other Americans.Yet, in spite of the offensiveness of the views of these groups, most Americans believe that they have the right to these views....and we have the right to recoil against them. It is what makes this Republic what it is. But, some would seek to limit the right of free sreech and assembly in the name of nationalism. A flag burner is really no different than a grand cyclops spewing hatred at a podium, or a jackbooted skinhead goosestepping down Main Strasse. The views of all are repugnant to decent, freedom loving Americans. But, to love America is to love the Constitution that made it great. To carve up the Constitution to outlaw those views that differ from your own is to trample it. You insist on confusing the defense of the RIGHT to burn a flag as an act of free expression with APPROVING of the act itself. And you are frankly, wrong.I find it interesting that you believe the "mass ignorance and blindness" applies to the non-nationalistic. Virtually everyone who is not a dictator or leader of a country bent on military expeditions believes the exact OPPOSITE. That is, that the mass ignorance and blindness is practiced by the citizens who are whipped into a patriotic frenzy by the leader for the purpose of galvanizing support for the impending military conquest. It is exactly how the world's most despised ruler was able to convince millions of God fearing, decent German citizens into fervently supporting the invasion of Europe and the killing of 6 million Jews.You are welcome to believe in the goodness of American nationalism. In fact, you would be comfortably in the majority. I feel no such obligation to conform to the norm. Other than its ability to make people feel good about being part of a group, similar to an Oprah Winfrey show, or to stifle dissent against military invasion, I don't see much use for it. In fact, history is littered with examples of its dangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Apparently, your nationalistic fervor prevented you from comprehending my post. The political groups I listed all enjoy freedom of speech. Many of us find the speech made by these groups to be offensive and repugnant. The KKK, in particular, uses its own freedom of speech and assembly to espouse the the limiting of civil rights of other Americans.Yet, in spite of the offensiveness of the views of these groups, most Americans believe that they have the right to these views....and we have the right to recoil against them. It is what makes this Republic what it is. But, some would seek to limit the right of free sreech and assembly in the name of nationalism. A flag burner is really no different than a grand cyclops spewing hatred at a podium, or a jackbooted skinhead goosestepping down Main Strasse. The views of all are repugnant to decent, freedom loving Americans. But, to love America is to love the Constitution that made it great. To carve up the Constitution to outlaw those views that differ from your own is to trample it. You insist on confusing the defense of the RIGHT to burn a flag as an act of free expression with APPROVING of the act itself. And you are frankly, wrong.I find it interesting that you believe the "mass ignorance and blindness" applies to the non-nationalistic. Virtually everyone who is not a dictator or leader of a country bent on military expeditions believes the exact OPPOSITE. That is, that the mass ignorance and blindness is practiced by the citizens who are whipped into a patriotic frenzy by the leader for the purpose of galvanizing support for the impending military conquest. It is exactly how the world's most despised ruler was able to convince millions of God fearing, decent German citizens into fervently supporting the invasion of Europe and the killing of 6 million Jews.You are welcome to believe in the goodness of American nationalism. In fact, you would be comfortably in the majority. I feel no such obligation to conform to the norm. Other than its ability to make people feel good about being part of a group, similar to an Oprah Winfrey show, or to stifle dissent against military invasion, I don't see much use for it. In fact, history is littered with examples of its dangers.All this ink to say "nothing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heights2Bastrop Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 This is one of my favorite movie quotes ever. It is from The American President and spoken by Michael Douglas as President Andrew Shepherd. America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've got to want it bad, because it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil who is standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the 'land of the free'? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the 'land of the free.'"You can be against something or someone you disagree with, or are even disgusted by their actions, yet still acknowledge a person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 All this ink to say "nothing"I admit I'm not the brightest bulb in the lamp these days but I can still recognize bull-headedness. If you have gathered nothing from any of our posts and all you can come back with is "All this ink to say "nothing"", I'm wondering if perhaps you really are the essence of all that is truely anti-constitution. If you don't get that it's OK to be pro KKK or Nazi and stil be protected by our constitution-if all you have to come back with is some crack about ink, I defend your ignorance but I'm pretty sure I'd be OK if you just slithered off to some island where you could just be pissed off all on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 All this ink to say "nothing"Frankly, 1stWord, given your other posts, I expected you, of all people, to be less influenced by something as symbolic as a flag. I must say, I am disappointed, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Apparently, your nationalistic fervor prevented you from comprehending my post. The political groups I listed all enjoy freedom of speech. Many of us find the speech made by these groups to be offensive and repugnant. The KKK, in particular, uses its own freedom of speech and assembly to espouse the the limiting of civil rights of other Americans.......You are welcome to believe in the goodness of American nationalism. In fact, you would be comfortably in the majority. I feel no such obligation to conform to the norm. Other than its ability to make people feel good about being part of a group, similar to an Oprah Winfrey show, or to stifle dissent against military invasion, I don't see much use for it. In fact, history is littered with examples of its dangers....It's funny to me that Oprah, the KKK, and freedom of speech were all mentioned in the same post. Remember when the beef industry tried to sue Oprah for saying something bad about meat? It was actually a legitimate case. Yet it's considered "freedom of speech" for the KKK to diss other races. Is that, like, a twist in the law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 well, the oprah case was based on defamation/slander (and was dismissed). and her statements made the price of cattle on the chicago mercantile exchange plummet. so that made the meatmen very angry.and what oprah did on her show was not ultimately considered slander.as for bigotry, it's seen differently in the eyes of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 well, the oprah case was based on defamation/slander (and was dismissed). and her statements made the price of cattle on the chicago mercantile exchange plummet. so that made the meatmen very angry.How do the meatmen feel about gay marriage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarthaG Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 This is one of my favorite movie quotes ever. It is from The American President and spoken by Michael Douglas as President Andrew Shepherd. "You can be against something or someone you disagree with, or are even disgusted by their actions, yet still acknowledge a person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston1stWordOnTheMoon Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I admit I'm not the brightest bulb in the lamp these days but I can still recognize bull-headedness. If you have gathered nothing from any of our posts and all you can come back with is "All this ink to say "nothing"", I'm wondering if perhaps you really are the essence of all that is truely anti-constitution. If you don't get that it's OK to be pro KKK or Nazi and stil be protected by our constitution-if all you have to come back with is some crack about ink, I defend your ignorance but I'm pretty sure I'd be OK if you just slithered off to some island where you could just be pissed off all on your own.Get well soon......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heights2Bastrop Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 OH.. and I love your avatar...GO RAMS!Durn it! Where's my Ram doll??? Go Bulldogs!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 I loved that speach and would have voted for Andrew Shepherd if he was running for President. Nmainguy.... I totally respect your point on not receiving same benefits as hetro-marriage. OH.. and I love your avatar...GO RAMS! Go Art Car Rams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 10 reasons why gay marriage is wrong 1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning. 2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall. 3) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans. 4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal. 5) Straight marriage would be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Brittany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed. 6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children. 8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children. 10) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncoby Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 no, but it makes us kneejerk reactionists (and massive consumerists)GOOD ONE!!!!!!!!!All the flags are gone now. Except mine. Mine was up BEFORE and AFTER 911. I never needed an excuse to buy one.After 911 the local walmart couldnt keep enough United States flags made in China in stock.The flags that are left are pretty worn out. No maintenance.Except mine.GOOD ONE!!!!!!!!!All the flags are gone now. Except mine. Mine was up BEFORE and AFTER 911. I never needed an excuse to buy one.After 911 the local walmart couldnt keep enough United States flags made in China in stock.The flags that are left are pretty worn out. No maintenance.Except mine.And if I want to burn my flag, I will because Americans lost their lives to protect my freedom to do so.So there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Proper Disposal of American FlagInteresting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Proper Disposal of American FlagInteresting....interesting indeed:US Flag Code. TITLE 4 > CHAPTER 1 > Sec. 8(k)."The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning"http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/us...08----000-.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncoby Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Proper Disposal of American FlagInteresting....Check out the flag ettiquite:The flag should not be used for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top. The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard. The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations. The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary. When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Gay marriage: 49 yea 48 nea. Up next, Flag burning. Stay tuned for the commie rants of johncoby and RedScare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west20th Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Gay marriage: 49 yea 48 nea.Up next, Flag burning. Stay tuned for the commie rants of johncoby and RedScare It didn't pass?! OMG God is going to smite this heathen nation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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