Of those in power, who served?

[nmainguy]

In light of the almost 3 thousand men and women sent to die for the lies of Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush...of those in power, who served?

* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.

* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.

* Tom Delay: did not serve.

* Roy Blunt: did not serve.

* Bill Frist: did not serve.

* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.

* Rick Santorum: did not serve.

* Trent Lott: did not serve.

* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.

* Jeb Bush: did not serve.

* Karl Rove: did not serve.

* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max

Cleland's patriotism.

* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.

* Vin Weber: did not serve.

* Richard Perle: did not serve.

* Douglas Feith: did not serve.

* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.

* Richard Shelby: did not serve.

* Jon Kyl: did not serve.

* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.

* Christopher Cox: did not serve.

* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.

* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got

assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for

U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from

duty.

* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.

* Phil Gramm: did not serve.

* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.

* John M. McHugh: did not serve.

* JC Watts: did not serve.

* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem, " although continued in NFL for

8 years as quarterback.

* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.

* George Pataki: did not serve.

* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.

* John Engler: did not serve.

* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Pundits and Preachers

* Sean Hannity: did not serve.

* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')

* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.

* Michael Savage: did not serve.

* George Will: did not serve.

* Chris Matthews: did not serve.

* Paul Gigot: did not serve.

* Bill Bennett: did not serve.

* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.

* Bill Kristol: did not serve.

* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.

* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.

* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.

* Ralph Reed: did not serve.

* Michael Medved: did not serve.

* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.

Now, it's your turn to turn the tables and clamp that Clinton monkey firmly on your backs.

[editor]

I suggest instead of cherry-picking the people whose status serves your political view, you provide a complete list. Why skip so many people unless it undermines your premise?

[Jeebus]

I agree. Why not provide a list of first, all U.S. Senators & Representatives, then followed by the Senate & Congress of all 50 states. Then we can continue on to all nationally broadcast television & radio political analysts.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Whats the point of this?

[Trophy Property]

That is a truly interesting post if you ask me. I agree that you highlighted the bigwigs who did not serve and failed to mention the others who did serve. There were many big names on there that control the policy of this war and it would be nice if they would have served their country (in a military function).

I will say this in defense of the men in charge. Many were not around during WWII or Korea. Now Vietnam was a huge deployment, but I think in today's political climate it is no longer a pre-requisite that you served in the Military to take on the most powerful positions in this country. As much as I loved Clinton (for his agility and peacetime leadership) he did not serve either.

Bottom line (in my eyes) is that this war has been a big mistake and too mainy young kids are losing their lives for reasons that are behond me. I will continue to support the troops no matter what my opinion is of our leadership.

[dalparadise]

I will continue to support the troops no matter what my opinion is of our leadership.

I hear this a lot, but what exactly does "supporting the troops" entail?

[nmainguy]

I suggest instead of cherry-picking the people whose status serves your political view, you provide a complete list. Why skip so many people unless it undermines your premise?

Because this is about those who are in power.

[Jeebus]

Another thing to consider is that even if these men did serve, most of them would have served as officers in the military due to their education & upbringing. As a former enlisted soldier I can tell you from experience that officers are the last ones you want making decisions on your behalf.

You think its all "Hollywood" & coincidence that there's not one war movie out there that doesn't make fun of officers at some point in each film? I don't think so. Let me see some NCO's (Non-commisioned Officers) in office. They'll get it done.

I hear this a lot, but what exactly does "supporting the troops" entail?

For me its vocal support. I make it a point to shake the hands of any soldiers I see in uniform at restuarants or airports. I've picked up the tabs of soldiers at restaurants before. I also donate money to charities that help the lowest ranking soldiers buy special equipment, comfort items & supplies, or plane tickets home.

[Trophy Property]

For me its vocal support. I make it a point to shake the hands of any soldiers I see in uniform at restuarants or airports. I've picked up the tabs of soldiers at restaurants before. I also donate money to charities that help the lowest ranking soldiers buy special equipment, comfort items & supplies, or plane tickets home.

I agree with Jeebus. I try and do the same thing.

[nmainguy]

I also donate money to charities that help the lowest ranking soldiers buy special equipment, comfort items & supplies

Wouldn't it be great if the above-mentioned politicians would do the same?

[uncertaintraveler]

Because this is about those who are in power.

You have an extremely odd view of who is in power....

J.C. Watts? Uh...like many others on your list, he is a former congressman. And, I don't think many would say he is in power now, if he ever was. Oh, and you might want to do some homework first...the guy was born in 1957, so it isn't like he even could serve in any war....

I used to like your posts, but geez...your one-sided allegiance is showing through and it isn't pretty.

[nmainguy]

You have an extremely odd view of who is in power....

J.C. Watts? Uh...like many others on your list, he is a former congressman. And, I don't think many would say he is in power now, if he ever was. Oh, and you might want to do some homework first...the guy was born in 1957, so it isn't like he even could serve in any war....

I used to like your posts, but geez...your one-sided allegiance is showing through and it isn't pretty.

Watts could very well have served in the first gulf war. He choose not to serve.

The first and second names on the list are first and second in line for the Presidency.

Bill Frist, majority leader of the Senate-an extreamly powerful position.

One other missing from the list: Secretary of State Rice.

My one-sided alligiance is to my country and I find it quite attractive stacked up against a band of chicken-hawks who have mis-led us into war.

Maybe you need to do your homework because you seem to be the one who does't know who is running this circus.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Another thing to consider is that even if these men did serve, most of them would have served as officers in the military due to their education & upbringing. As a former enlisted soldier I can tell you from experience that officers are the last ones you want making decisions on your behalf.

You think its all "Hollywood" & coincidence that there's not one war movie out there that doesn't make fun of officers at some point in each film? I don't think so. Let me see some NCO's (Non-commisioned Officers) in office. They'll get it done.

For me its vocal support. I make it a point to shake the hands of any soldiers I see in uniform at restuarants or airports. I've picked up the tabs of soldiers at restaurants before. I also donate money to charities that help the lowest ranking soldiers buy special equipment, comfort items & supplies, or plane tickets home.

Not a fan of officers?

[uncertaintraveler]

Watts could very well have served in the first gulf war. He choose not to serve.

The first and second names on the list are first and second in line for the Presidency.

Bill Frist, majority leader of the Senate-an extreamly powerful position.

One other missing from the list: Secretary of State Rice.

My one-sided alligiance is to my country and I find it quite attractive stacked up against a band of chicken-hawks who have mis-led us into war.

Maybe you need to do your homework because you seem to be the one who does't know who is running this circus.

Gosh...I really don't want to get dragged into this, but I opened my mouth and now I'm in it...

First, yeah, I guess Watts could have served in the first gulf war. The first gulf war was in 1990-1991, correct? So, let's see....a little homework shows that Watts was serving in the Oklahoma State Corporation Commission in 1990...so, yeah, I guess Watts could have stepped down from his state service job to sign up for the U.S. Military. But golly, how many people in the United States stepped down from their own jobs to sign up for the first gulf war???

And before you mouth off that he (or any of the other people you listed) could have signed up at any time, let the record reflect that it isn't like he wasn't busy doing other things at the time, such winning games for OU, fathering children on the sly, and serving his community as a pastor, corporation commission officer, and as a congressman (not all at once, of course...). Look, I'm no fan of Watts, but you listing him as a person "in power"--and, by extension, as someone who misled us into war---is just insanity. Good grief, the guy wasn't even in Congress when the invasion into Iraq began.

Second, I don't recall ever mentioning anything about the ORDER of your list, but now that you brought it up, how exactly does Jeb Bush fit into the line of presidential succession? Newt Gingrich? Ummm...let me go grab a copy of the Constitution, surely the president's brother and past-past-past House Majority Leader fits in the line somewhere.....

Third, oh...just forget it. Its not worth debating with you.

Although, as a final question, I've always wondered...what exactly is your proposed solution to the current "circus" and the war in Iraq? Vote in only Democrats? Leave Iraq and say "ummm...sorry things didn't turn out the way we had planned..."? Mandate everyone serve in the Armed Forces? Just highlight who didn't serve with goofball lists?

[nmainguy]

Although, as a final question, I've always wondered...what exactly is your proposed solution to the current "circus" and the war in Iraq?

I'll reiterate from my previous posts in other threads. I agree with Cong. John Murtha: Redeploy across the Kuwait border and stand ready to go back in if needed. That way we get our guys out of this civil war and let the Iraqis fight it out on their own. We are approching US 3000 dead. Of course, Murtha is a decorated veteran but he's a Democrat. The White House tried to discredit him and his service but their crap didn't stick this time.

Here's an interview with him from yesterday. http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/IraqCoverage...=2019526&page=1

What's your plan?

[johncoby]

I'll reiterate from my previous posts in other threads. I agree with Cong. John Murtha: Redeploy across the Kuwait border and stand ready to go back in if needed. That way we get our guys out of this civil war and let the Iraqis fight it out on their own. We are approching US 3000 dead. Of course, Murtha is a decorated veteran but he's a Democrat. The White House tried to discredit him and his service but their crap didn't stick this time.

Here's an interview with him from yesterday. http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/IraqCoverage...=2019526&page=1

What's your plan?

Stay the course. And of course, put a "I support the troops" magnetic sticker on the SUV. :closedeyes:

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Murtha-----the same guy that suggested the US shouldnt go into war unless it is paid for by other countries, like the Gulf War was paid for mostly by nations other than the USA......

Translates into---- the deployment of US forces should be in step with the willingness of other nations graciousness to open the purse strings and pay for it........am i the only one that sees danger in that line of thinking?

[nmainguy]

Murtha-----the same guy that suggested the US shouldnt go into war unless it is paid for by other countries, like the Gulf War was paid for mostly by nations other than the USA......

Translates into---- the deployment of US forces should be in step with the willingness of other nations graciousness to open the purse strings and pay for it........am i the only one that sees danger in that line of thinking?

Murtha voted FOR this war and it's funding. He is arguably the military's favorite Congress member. I don't know where you are getting your information unless you're just another member of the Cheney/Bush smear campaign.

In the 48 hours following U.S. Rep. John P. Murtha's call for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, his views were described with words rarely uttered in the same sentence as his name: cowardly, extremist, complicit with the enemy.

But by exposing himself to that criticism, a once-crucial ally in President George H.W. Bush's decision to wage the first Gulf War and President Ronald Reagan's Latin American military endeavors also produced a seismic shift in the debate over the Iraq War last week in Washington.

Here's the rest of the story if you're really interested in something other than a smear job.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05324/609608.stm

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Murtha voted FOR this war and it's funding. He is arguably the military's favorite Congress member. I don't know where you are getting your information unless you're just another member of the Cheney/Bush smear campaign.

Here's the rest of the story if you're really interested in something other than a smear job.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05324/609608.stm

Are you able, at any point in your life, to refrain from your usual political garbage? Im no supporter of any particular party. I personally think its hard to be vastly different when only 2 parties control the bulk of political power in the country. I have allegience to NO political party. Lift the the polical rhetoric and you will find the 2 partys in control are more alike than different.

I have much respect for Mr Murthas military service, and the service of anyone that wear or has worn the uniform, but it doesnt blindly lead me into following him and his political career.

[nmainguy]

Are you able, at any point in your life, to refrain from your usual political garbage? Im no supporter of any particular party. I personally think its hard to be vastly different when only 2 parties control the bulk of political power in the country. I have allegience to NO political party. Lift the the polical rhetoric and you will find the 2 partys in control are more alike than different.

I have much respect for Mr Murthas military service, and the service of anyone that wear or has worn the uniform, but it doesnt blindly lead me into following him and his political career.

I'm sorry. I just figured you were another far-right Republican because you advocate drilling in ANWR for a negligible amount of oil, strategicly bombing women and children, your intense hatred of President Clinton and The United Nations [or "The United Nothings" as you so elegantly re-named it in a 7th grade kind of way] and your nomination of GHW Bush as Mayor.

My mistake.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I'm sorry. I just figured you were another far-right Republican because you advocate drilling in ANWR for a negligible amount of oil, strategicly bombing women and children, your intense hatred of President Clinton and The United Nations [or "The United Nothings" as you so elegantly re-named it in a 7th grade kind of way] and your nomination of GHW Bush as Mayor.

My mistake.

I dont hate mr Clinton. I dislike his butchering of the military. Im not into the political party garbage, thats your scene.

If you were not so committed to ignorance, you would see that G H W Bush is a very well connected and powerful individual on more levels than you may know, and calls Houston home. Someone like that in my opinion would be excellent for my beloved city of Houston.

7th grade? Still angry i out rank your 3rd grade understanding of the US presidential election process?

[nmainguy]

I dont hate mr Clinton. I dislike his butchering of the military. Im not into the political party garbage, thats your scene.

If you were not so committed to ignorance, you would see that G H W Bush is a very well connected and powerful individual on more levels than you may know, and calls Houston home. Someone like that in my opinion would be excellent for my beloved city of Houston.

7th grade? Still angry i out rank your 3rd grade understanding of the US presidential election process?

It's OK. I understand the flaw in an electoral system that allows the loser to be choosen as the winner. I just can't understand your inability to fess up to your political leanings. I am a Democrat and work hard to change from within. You choose not to. That's why you'll always be frustrated when you whine about things that arn't going your way. BTW-gasp-I voted for GHW in '88 because I did respect his intellegence and honor. Too bad his boys got more of Barbara's vindictiveness and less of Poppy's level-headedness.

[Heights2Bastrop]

I have the feeling that General Clinton and Major Kennedy had something to do with compiling this list.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

It's OK. I understand the flaw in an electoral system that allows the loser to be choosen as the winner. I just can't understand your inability to fess up to your political leanings. I am a Democrat and work hard to change from within. You choose not to. That's why you'll always be frustrated when you whine about things that arn't going your way. BTW-gasp-I voted for GHW in '88 because I did respect his intellegence and honor. Too bad his boys got more of Barbara's vindictiveness and less of Poppy's level-headedness.

Its ok. Continue posting this mess, its amusing to me. Not often i get to have an exchange with people that are blind and completely politically biased. You are and have been a nice distraction from the elitest and arrogant people i usually deal with Your posts satisfy the "slumming" im lacking in life :) :)

[TJones]

Watts could very well have served in the first gulf war. He choose not to serve.

The first and second names on the list are first and second in line for the Presidency.

Bill Frist, majority leader of the Senate-an extreamly powerful position.

One other missing from the list: Secretary of State Rice.

My one-sided alligiance is to my country and I find it quite attractive stacked up against a band of chicken-hawks who have mis-led us into war.

Maybe you need to do your homework because you seem to be the one who does't know who is running this circus.

Nmain, there aren't very many 35 yr. old "grunts" in the military, so NO, Watts wouldn't have been chosen, even in a draft to go to Operation Desert Storm.

I don't see any of the "powerful" Dems. on your list, mainly the ones you guys seem to always hold up to the cameras. Leahey, Lieberman, Biden, Byrd, Hillary Clinton, Obama, Howard Dean......YYYYEEEEEEEAAAAHHHHHHHHHH !! ! ! ! ! !

Yeah,yeah, I know, they aren't in power, but they most definately HAVE power. But, if you guys, by some miracle, win the Presidency in the next election, are you gonna print the flipside list ?

[west20th]

Yeah,yeah, I know, they aren't in power, but they most definately HAVE power. But, if you guys, by some miracle, win the Presidency in the next election, are you gonna print the flipside list ?

What do you mean IF?

Hillary Clinton - Didn't serve

Al Gore - Served, but I'm sure they will find a way to "swift boat" him if he runs.

Who do you think will be the likely GOP candidate in '08?

[TJones]

What do you mean IF?

Hillary Clinton - Didn't serve

Al Gore - Served, but I'm sure they will find a way to "swift boat" him if he runs.

Who do you think will be the likely GOP candidate in '08?

Fell right into my trap, MUWAHAHAHAHA............Where the hell have you been anyways west20th ? You damn Lurker you.

Before I answer who I think might be the one, let me ask you if you REALLY think that Algore and Hillary will be running mates ? If so, who's on top of the ticket ?

[nmainguy]

Nmain, there aren't very many 35 yr. old "grunts" in the military, so NO, Watts wouldn't have been chosen, even in a draft to go to Operation Desert Storm.

I don't see any of the "powerful" Dems. on your list, mainly the ones you guys seem to always hold up to the cameras. Leahey, Lieberman, Biden, Byrd, Hillary Clinton, Obama, Howard Dean......YYYYEEEEEEEAAAAHHHHHHHHHH !! ! ! ! ! !

Yeah,yeah, I know, they aren't in power, but they most definately HAVE power. But, if you guys, by some miracle, win the Presidency in the next election, are you gonna print the flipside list ?

TJ, I suggest you watch the Sunday morning ABC news show at 10 AM when they list the week's casualties at the end. There are as many 30-40 year olds as there are 18-30 year olds. Watts didn't need to be choosen. He could have joined. He choose not to. BTW, Pat Tillman was 27 when he gave up millions of $$ to join the military only to be killed by friendly fire that was covered up by the Bush administration. Their disrespect regarding his family is beyond pathetic.

You are right, the Democrats are not in power but if and/or when they are, I would not hesitate to point out the Democratic chicken-hawks who might mis-led us into a war we have no chance of winning.

And you are right, the Dems are not in power and are not powerful just for that reason. The Republicans are in control of it all. I swear to you, if the Dem's were pulling this crap at the expense of our kid's lives, I'd be on them like flys on you-know-what.

[TJones]

TJ, I suggest you watch the Sunday morning ABC news show at 10 AM when they list the week's casualties at the end. There are as many 30-40 year olds as there are 18-30 year olds. Watts didn't need to be choosen. He could have joined. He choose not to. BTW, Pat Tillman was 27 when he gave up millions of $$ to join the military only to be killed by friendly fire that was covered up by the Bush administration. Their disrespect regarding his family is beyond pathetic.

You are right, the Democrats are not in power but if and/or when they are, I would not hesitate to point out the Democratic chicken-hawks who might mis-led us into a war we have no chance of winning.

And you are right, the Dems are not in power and are not powerful just for that reason. The Republicans are in control of it all. I swear to you, if the Dem's were pulling this crap at the expense of our kid's lives, I'd be on them like flys on you-know-what.

Do you have a link showing where the "Bush administration" covered up Tillman's death ? I would like to read that article. I would like to see just how many 34 yr. olds have joined up during Vietnam or the first Gulf War, or even THIS Gulf War. You got any numbers on that ? There is also a huge difference between 27 and 34.

[nmainguy]

Do you have a link showing where the "Bush administration" covered up Tillman's death ? I would like to read that article. I would like to see just how many 34 yr. olds have joined up during Vietnam or the first Gulf War, or even THIS Gulf War. You got any numbers on that ? There is also a huge difference between 27 and 34.

The first Army investigator who looked into the death of former NFL player Pat Tillman in Afghanistan last year found within days that he was killed by his fellow Rangers in an act of "gross negligence," but Army officials decided not to inform Tillman's family or the public until weeks after a nationally televised memorial service.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5050301502.html

The military is under direct control of the Commander in Chief. If they choose to go behind the back of the Commander and his subordinates, perhaps they should be dismissed. They weren't. Bush knew and did nothing. Tillman's family suffered and continues to do so. So much for honor.