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This use of eminent domain so wrong it makes me sick.

Why doesn't the COH tell the Pavillions to budget space WITH the compound, instead of taking someone's house/private property. Oh, yeah I forgot about greasing the palms..........

I totally agree with you on this. Attached is a nice little piece by CBS.

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/60minutes/main575343.shtml - 95k -

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What? It's just an honest evaluation. Nothing against the men. But are they being greedy or just need to maintain an extravagent lifestyle? Seriously, they look at least 80. If I were them, I wouldn't be thinking I have a ton of time left on this earth. I'd say 1.4 should be plenty. Another half a mil won't buy them more life.

Different people have different priorities. We don't know anything at all about these guys' financial position, so it is hard to say what their specific motivation may be for wanting to capture the true market value of their investment.

Perhaps they've leveraged the asset to support other investments. Perhaps those investments haven't gone over very well, they're upside down on a note, and a forced sale would put them into bankruptcy.

Or perhaps they're doing their best to preserve their assets so as to allow for a larger distribution to their heirs...some people value their children/grandchildren's well-being more than their own. That's my grandfather's motivation for being a cheapskate millionaire.

When it comes down to it, their motive and circumstances are irrelevant. They purchased the rights to that parcel of land, and eminent domain under such circumstances undermines the core concept of those rights.

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Different people have different priorities. We don't know anything at all about these guys' financial position, so it is hard to say what their specific motivation may be for wanting to capture the true market value of their investment.

Perhaps they've leveraged the asset to support other investments. Perhaps those investments haven't gone over very well, they're upside down on a note, and a forced sale would put them into bankruptcy.

Or perhaps they're doing their best to preserve their assets so as to allow for a larger distribution to their heirs...some people value their children/grandchildren's well-being more than their own. That's my grandfather's motivation for being a cheapskate millionaire.

When it comes down to it, their motive and circumstances are irrelevant. They purchased the rights to that parcel of land, and eminent domain under such circumstances undermines the core concept of those rights.

Yeah, I agree with all that. I wasn't trying to justify what the city did. I'm just wondering why they didn't take that nice chunk of change in the first place. But then I got to thinking about what you just mentioned. I have no idea what their intentions were. Just thinkin', that's all.

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Actually, I thought it was. At least in terms of legal precedent, anyway. Weren't a number of high-profile cases argued that way? 'The greater good' blah blah.

The Kelo vs. New London case set a dangerous precedent regarding the utilization of eminent domain for economic development purposes, which would seem to include the elimination of what is perceived to be 'blight'. However, the Texas state legislature was quick to ban such practices.

If I'm not mistaken, the City of Freeport was the only Texas municipality able to take advantage of the brief window of opportunity, but the land owners (the Gore family) is fighting it tooth and nail.

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eminent domain, blah blah blah. What I really care about is could the 66-story tower really turn into 2 30-story towers? They already made a rendering for the 66-story tower. I was looking forward to something tall. Not sure how it really affects my life though, except to have something new to look at while on the west loop.

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I'm learning that the preliminary plans for height should be cut in half and reduce the square footage by half as well. A 66 story tower was WAY too good to be true. Anything over 30 stories you can pretty much ax. Look at Discovery Tower...the preliminary word was a 30 story tower likely to be taller. It's not. Turnberry Tower: Preliminary word was a 42 story tower. I think we are down to 32 or something. It seems that 30 stories is the magic floor count. Everything going up seems to have 30 floors. All the buildings going up in the Med center all have under 30 stories except for the newest completion which is 30 stories. 2727 Kirby: 30 stories. The Mosaic: 29 stories. The Endeavors: 30 stories. Anadarko Tower: 30 stories. 6 Houston Center: 29 stories (with parking garage). I know some of those are old, but come on. Can we build anything over 30 stories??

I know I know...Mainplace. Other than that and BLVD Place, I can't think of any other building slated to be taller than 30 stories. It's rather frustrating.

Edited by wxman
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there must be a cost threshold at around 30 stories. that sux for us sim city fans who want taller. ;)

Plop cheats and modds FTW!

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I'm learning that the preliminary plans for height should be cut in half and reduce the square footage by half as well. A 66 story tower was WAY too good to be true. Anything over 30 stories you can pretty much ax. Look at Discovery Tower...the preliminary word was a 30 story tower likely to be taller. It's not. Turnberry Tower: Preliminary word was a 42 story tower. I think we are down to 32 or something. It seems that 30 stories is the magic floor count. Everything going up seems to have 30 floors. All the buildings going up in the Med center all have under 30 stories except for the newest completion which is 30 stories. 2727 Kirby: 30 stories. The Mosaic: 29 stories. The Endeavors: 30 stories. Anadarko Tower: 30 stories. 6 Houston Center: 29 stories (with parking garage). I know some of those are old, but come on. Can we build anything over 30 stories??

I know I know...Mainplace. Other than that and BLVD Place, I can't think of any other building slated to be taller than 30 stories. It's rather frustrating.

Anadarko Tower is 32.

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Hey, 30-something stories is not much compared to 75, but 30 is still stinkin tall. I'm still kind of amazed at how tall anadarko is every time I drive by it. Plus, those super talls hardly ever come around. We've gotta be patient for those.

Econ gooroos...do yall think since land downtown is becoming relatively more 'scarce.' that they'll eventually start getting taller as more are built?

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I'm all for density also, but when it comes to Uptown, I don't really think it matters. There is no grid street pattern, so might as well be a cool looking tall tower. If this was downtown, then I'd be all for two towers at 30 story. I don't know how to explain what I'm saying, I just know my thought is that density isn't as important Uptown as inside the loop. This isn't going to make sense to anyone.

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Yes, ceteris paribus.

Well, I guess the answer was fairly obvious. I guess I should have qualified it. I'm just wondering how long we'll have to wait for them to get higher. With each new land parcel that's built on, it quantitatively becomes more scarce, but would we really non-techinically say that the land downtown is 'scarce?'

I mean, I could still see them being built at a moderated height of 30-40 floors for at least another ten buildings. How many parcels need to be left until it's a necessity to build at least 45-55+ high?

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Well, I guess the answer was fairly obvious. I guess I should have qualified it. I'm just wondering how long we'll have to wait for them to get higher. With each new land parcel that's built on, it quantitatively becomes more scarce, but would we really non-techinically say that the land downtown is 'scarce?'

I mean, I could still see them being built at a moderated height of 30-40 floors for at least another ten buildings. How many parcels need to be left until it's a necessity to build at least 45-55+ high?

South and Southeast Downtown have a ton of blocks open for development. I'm thinking after the east side starts filling up, we'll see the south end of Main St and southwest downtown start being developed. Then, I think land would start becoming scarce. I can't imagine this happening for another 3-5 decades, obviously depending on the city's economy.

Edited by roadrunner
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South and Southeast Downtown have a ton of blocks open for development. I'm thinking after the east side starts filling up, we'll see the south end of Main St and southwest downtown start being developed. Then, I think land would start becoming scarce. I can't imagine this happening for another 3-5 decades, obviously depending on the city's economy.

Yeah. Just think if what you say is true...the last pieces of land to be developed will most likely be the southeast side of downtown where 59 and 45 converge. So if our theory holds up, we could have another 'skyline district' on the oppossite end of downtown. Or maybe the far north by the bayou will be the last to be developed. It's pretty slow over there too.

I don't mean to hijack a thread, but what do yall think will be the last area of downtown to be developed? I say 45/59 corner area.

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I'm all for density also, but when it comes to Uptown, I don't really think it matters. There is no grid street pattern, so might as well be a cool looking tall tower. If this was downtown, then I'd be all for two towers at 30 story. I don't know how to explain what I'm saying, I just know my thought is that density isn't as important Uptown as inside the loop. This isn't going to make sense to anyone.

Good point, but also consider that the area around Blvd Place is pretty sparce, so a couple of towers could fill those spots nicely. I still wouldn't mind a 66 story tower to kind of anchor that side of the skyline visually.

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Well, I guess the answer was fairly obvious. I guess I should have qualified it. I'm just wondering how long we'll have to wait for them to get higher. With each new land parcel that's built on, it quantitatively becomes more scarce, but would we really non-techinically say that the land downtown is 'scarce?'

If downtown land were not scarce, it'd be used for agricultural purposes...or not at all.

I mean, I could still see them being built at a moderated height of 30-40 floors for at least another ten buildings. How many parcels need to be left until it's a necessity to build at least 45-55+ high?

That's basically impossible to say. It depends on land prices, rent growth, and regional economic vitality.

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South and Southeast Downtown have a ton of blocks open for development. I'm thinking after the east side starts filling up, we'll see the south end of Main St and southwest downtown start being developed. Then, I think land would start becoming scarce. I can't imagine this happening for another 3-5 decades, obviously depending on the city's economy.

On that side of downtown I'm as much interested in buildings going down as up -- namely that rotting old Days Inn building. That's one block where a surface lot would be an improvement!

(Though of course a renovation would be better) :)

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