The Heights Restaurant And Bar Scene - More Coming

[Moose]

Anyone have an update on Killan's?

 

This was posted last night http://www.29-95.com/restaurants/story/cks-steakhouse-killens-bbq-progress-report

 

The original plans had to be scraped and they're talking of building a new structure.

[s3mh]

http://www.chron.com/life/food/article/Desserts-are-the-stars-at-Sal-Sucr-French-4310463.php?cmpid=entertainmenthcat#photo-4253618

Generally agree with the review. Have not had breakfast there yet. Really want to try the croissant.

[s3mh]

http://www.theleadernews.com/?p=7144

And the Big Mamou goes down. Yeah, the service was always awkward and the food did not meet the demands of the Cajun purists. But, I always liked the place. It was homey and had a nice patio out back. They did do a great job building out that little bungalow. Hopefully, someone else will take over and start up a new restaurant.

[s3mh]

http://www.29-95.com/restaurants/story/fat-cat-creamery-open-heights-ice-cream-parlor

I think my property values just went up 10%.

[JCR]

http://www.29-95.com/restaurants/story/fat-cat-creamery-open-heights-ice-cream-parlor I think my property values just went up 10%.

 

Terrible location.  Share the building with Texas Dry Clean, a chiro's office and whatever no name businesses are there. Not co-located with the other businesses on 19th.  Pedestrian and bike traffic? I don't think so...

[Marksmu]

Terrible location.  Share the building with Texas Dry Clean, a chiro's office and whatever no name businesses are there. Not co-located with the other businesses on 19th.  Pedestrian and bike traffic? I don't think so...

 

I agree - the heights needs a good ice cream place, but that location is awful.  That area between Shepherd/Durham is dead to me.  I have only been to the Kroger shopping center & Tommie Vaughn - everything else has been completely ignored by pretty much everyone I know.  I dont know of anybody who has gone into any store north of 11th in between shepherd & durham.

[s3mh]

Terrible location.  Share the building with Texas Dry Clean, a chiro's office and whatever no name businesses are there. Not co-located with the other businesses on 19th.  Pedestrian and bike traffic? I don't think so...

Not quite that bad. They are going in at 1901 N. Shep. That is the old building on the NW corner of 19th and Shep that is going to be redeveloped. That intersection is also one of the few you can actually cross on foot as the traffic on 19th is pretty slack (everyone uses 20th as a cut through instead of 19th). N. Shep is generally a dump, but it is changing. Given that this is just a local business and not a Baskin and Robins franchise, it is understandable that they have to seek out cheap rent for their first location. I am sure you could say the same thing about the location for Jus Mac and Cedar Creek, but both are printing money.

[JJxvi]

This is not in the retail center. Its in the building I said would be great for a bar or pub if it wasn't dry. I was then informed by somebody that there is simply too much traffic on Shepherd and thats why nobody would put something in a space like that.

[kylejack]

So nobody goes between Shepherd and Durham because...nobody goes between Shepherd and Durham? Maybe nobody goes there because there was nothing worth going to. I've had the Fat Cat ice cream, and it's worth seeking out.

[west20th]

This is not in the retail center. Its in the building I said would be great for a bar or pub if it wasn't dry. I was then informed by somebody that there is simply too much traffic on Shepherd and thats why nobody would put something in a space like that.

 

Hmmm....who might that have been?

 

I wish them the best. It is good to see something go into that dead zone between Shep and Durham.

[s3mh]

This is not in the retail center. Its in the building I said would be great for a bar or pub if it wasn't dry. I was then informed by somebody that there is simply too much traffic on Shepherd and thats why nobody would put something in a space like that.

As usual, the only way to argue against me is to say that I said something I did not say. I actually was arguing that there was some potential for redevelopment up N. Shep as a result of a gradual turning of the tide along the street. It was in a thread that I started about a new townhome development at N. Shep and 6th in what is now a storage lot for the Ford dealership. I noted that there is a new storage facility planned for 15th and N. Shep. My conclusion was that these were signs that the tote the note shops were giving way to new development. You said that nothing would happen along N. Shep because alcohol sales are restricted from 11th up to 20something-th. So, you were actually wrong. Development can proceed in the dry section of N. Shep.

My point about traffic was that the restaurants and bars that have redeveloped Washington Ave would not want to open along N. Shep because of the one way traffic that patrons would have to deal with. Fat Cat Creamery does not need the traffic to be successful. They have a big following with the foodies that, like with Revival Market, will translate into a larger following. People will go find Fat Cat. That is why they are able to take a less desirable location in exchange for lower overhead costs.

[JJxvi]

I'm not sure that I was in an argument with you in this thread, but here we go.

 

I'll let you read the following three excerpts out loud to yourself.

 

"My point about traffic was that the restaurants and bars that have redeveloped Washington Ave would not want to open along N. Shep because of the one way traffic that patrons would have to deal with."

 

"Its in the building I said would be great for a bar or pub if it wasn't dry. I was then informed by somebody that there is simply too much traffic on Shepherd and thats why nobody would put something in a space like that."

 

"The kind of development on Washington and White Oak is not going to come to Shep/Durham because no one wants to go to a bar that is surrounded by eight lanes of traffic."

 

As you are no doubt aware the 1st and 3rd are your own words, and the 2nd is my comment in this thread. I have done my best (Ctrl+C) to copy them as close to word for word as possible.  I am sure others will agree that my comments are clearly not a twist of your words. It is almost exactly what you really said.

 

My argument in that thread seen here was that development that occured in Shady Acres, likely would have occured along Shepherd and Durham if the area were not dry. I still believe that, but feel free to continue to educate me on explanations about why you had to go north of 26th to find a liquor store and ice house on Shepherd, why all the restaurants on Durham and Shepherd are south of I-10, why there are liqour stores and icehouses in Shady Acres instead of along the busiest 2 streets in the area. Most of which I developed my own theories about by going to these places beginning about 20 years ago.

 

I look forward to heading to this ice cream parlour. Its a good start and a good fit for this area, considering the limitations on the use of the building.

 

If they are successful, look for the lot immediately to the north to get redeveloped as well. It is a nice size too.

Edited February 28, 2013 by JJxvi

[Ross]

Shepherd being one way won't hurt any business. It's dead easy to go around any block  from 12th to 26th.

[Subdude]

A reminder here to keep any posts about the topic, not about other HAIF members.

 

 

 

 

 

[J008]

Big Mammou is closing.  Not for sale, not going out of business, just closing.

 

http://www.29-95.com/restaurants/story/big-mamou-close-after-service-feb-28http://www.29-95.com/restaurants/story/big-mamou-close-after-service-feb-28

 

 

[SilverJK]

Big Mamou had the 3rd best Gumbo on a 1/2 mile stretch of Studewood...  as much as I wanted to love the place (the owners are very nice people) it just never did it for me.  I appreciated the beignets the most... and if they would have been available all the time I would have went a lot more.  Great location, great building, great attitude, the food just wasn't good enough. 

 

[Angostura]

I agree - the heights needs a good ice cream place, but that location is awful.  That area between Shepherd/Durham is dead to me.  I have only been to the Kroger shopping center & Tommie Vaughn - everything else has been completely ignored by pretty much everyone I know.  I dont know of anybody who has gone into any store north of 11th in between shepherd & durham.

 

 

The entire stretch of 19th W of Shepherd ought to be a barren wasteland, but Hubcap and Gatlin's both do well there since their products are worth seeking out.

 

I've had this ice cream, and it's worth braving the wilds west of Lawrence St. to get it.

[s3mh]

I'm not sure that I was in an argument with you in this thread, but here we go.

 

I'll let you read the following three excerpts out loud to yourself.

 

"My point about traffic was that the restaurants and bars that have redeveloped Washington Ave would not want to open along N. Shep because of the one way traffic that patrons would have to deal with."

 

"Its in the building I said would be great for a bar or pub if it wasn't dry. I was then informed by somebody that there is simply too much traffic on Shepherd and thats why nobody would put something in a space like that."

 

"The kind of development on Washington and White Oak is not going to come to Shep/Durham because no one wants to go to a bar that is surrounded by eight lanes of traffic."

 

As you are no doubt aware the 1st and 3rd are your own words, and the 2nd is my comment in this thread. I have done my best (Ctrl+C) to copy them as close to word for word as possible.  I am sure others will agree that my comments are clearly not a twist of your words. It is almost exactly what you really said.

 

My argument in that thread seen here was that development that occured in Shady Acres, likely would have occured along Shepherd and Durham if the area were not dry. I still believe that, but feel free to continue to educate me on explanations about why you had to go north of 26th to find a liquor store and ice house on Shepherd, why all the restaurants on Durham and Shepherd are south of I-10, why there are liqour stores and icehouses in Shady Acres instead of along the busiest 2 streets in the area. Most of which I developed my own theories about by going to these places beginning about 20 years ago.

 

I look forward to heading to this ice cream parlour. Its a good start and a good fit for this area, considering the limitations on the use of the building.

 

If they are successful, look for the lot immediately to the north to get redeveloped as well. It is a nice size too.

The restaurants in Shady Acres succeeded because the land was bargain basement. No one wanted it at the time they moved in. The land along Shep is cheap, but nowhere near as cheap as Shady Acres land back when those folks set up shop.

If you are going to argue whether the cruddy booze barns and ice houses north of the dry zone on Shep would have occupied the areas that are now dry, I will not oppose that argument. I also do not want to see cruddy booze dives infest Shep and am glad the dry restriction is there to keep them out.

The smattering of restaurants and bars in between Washington and I-10 are more a function of history than any modern trend. Pizzitolas, Cadlillac (pre-Landry-ification) and Spaghetti Western have been there long before the area gentrified and Washington became an entertainment district. And if the lack of alcohol restriction equals good restaurant development, there should be something between White Oak Bayou and 14th St. But, there is almost nothing, except for Nundini's wonderful food, great wine selection and pleasantly laughable service. For all practical purposes there is no difference between 6th-14th and 14th-19th on Shep, but both areas are devoid of anything other than Fast Food garbage a great Torta shop and Nundini. Thus, there is no reason to expect any kind of miracle along 14th-19th without an alcohol restriction.

[SilverJK]

The smattering of restaurants and bars in between Washington and I-10 are more a function of history than any modern trend. Pizzitolas, Cadlillac (pre-Landry-ification) and Spaghetti Western have been there long before the area gentrified and Washington became an entertainment district. And if the lack of alcohol restriction equals good restaurant development, there should be something between White Oak Bayou and 14th St. But, there is almost nothing, except for Nundini's wonderful food, great wine selection and pleasantly laughable service. For all practical purposes there is no difference between 6th-14th and 14th-19th on Shep, but both areas are devoid of anything other than Fast Food garbage a great Torta shop and Nundini. Thus, there is no reason to expect any kind of miracle along 14th-19th without an alcohol restriction.

 

Except the already increasing number of restaurants in the neighborhood. 

 

Witchcraft is not within shepard and durham, but basically on the corner of 11th and shep.  Not too hard to imagine something similar inbetween them being successful.  Lifting the alchohol ban (which is rediculous in the first place) would definitely open opportunity for people to open some nice(and successful) bars/restaurants between shepard and durham. 

Nobody expects some miracle... but one or two more options sure would be nice.    I also think your disdain for the "cruddy booze barns" just shows what kind of person you are.  You afriad of "Ice house" patrons?

[JJxvi]

Why do you suppose the land is cheaper in shady acres than along Shepherd?

[JJxvi]

Also, what do you suppose land values are on Washington and White Oak?

[AlainHarvey]

Salé  Sucré is located on a particularly unattractive span of White Oak in a small, generic strip center just off Studewood not far from I-10 but you'll see the restaurant's glow before you even enter. And once in, you will be quickly enveloped by a welcoming, warm sensibility.

 

There aren't any other places in the nearby area that offer such nuanced French bistro fare. This lack of competition is both a blessing and a curse, translating into generally higher prices than one would normally expect to pay for the inconsistent quality and simple menu.

 

Philippe Harel and his wife Béline are the husband-wife entrepreneurial duo behind Salé Sucré. Unfussy yet dignified, Salé Sucré is relaxed but possesses a certain sophistication. On a Thursday evening when we visited the live music's volume was much too loud for the small space, precluding any attempt at having a conversation with our guests while eating. The music was good but left our heads throbbing by the end of the evening.

 

The waiters know about the food, and they're attentive without being overbearing. While well-intentioned, the bartender and small wait staff can be easily overwhelmed resulting in service that is often slow. You will need to be patient.

 

The order of service was disjointed and somewhat surreal. After an extended wait, our bottle of wine arrived while we were still wondering what happened to our cocktail order. Our cocktails arrived half-way through the appetizers. After several requests, bread (a single small loaf) initially made an appearance mid-way through the meal.

 

Once the bread arrived it was a joy in the form of a single miniature, delicious peasant baguette. Unfortunately, it was too small to adequately share between our party of four diners. Luckily, after several further requests, additional loaves began arriving at oddly-timed intervals.

 

The small menu, still apparently a work in progress, includes a lengthy list of both savory and sweet crêpe dishes, plus starters that include pan-fried Camembert served with spinach salad and honey dressing. The chef uses fresh herbs, which are well sourced and typically incorporated in well-chosen combinations. Main lunch entrees are somewhat pricey, and dinners are even more expensive. We found many menu items to be either over or under-seasoned resulting in food that was generally good but inconsistent, missing the mark of being great. The moules marinières in particular were bland due to inadequate seasoning and cooked for much too long resulting in an unpleasant, rubbery texture. The baked camembert was very salty due to an overly free-hand with the seasoning.

 

Salé  Sucré  is a good choice for simple bistro fare, like savory or sweet crepes and frites. Dining at Salé Sucré isn't perfect --but unfortunately it's about as close as you'll get to Paris within this area of the Heights.

 

DON'T MISS

 

THE SPACE Situated in a nondescript strip center, this bistro has an interior that is an entirely different story, with a welcoming bar and a handful of colorful tables creating a dining area with a warm French bistro feel. Soft lighting, wood floors and scattered cushioned seats along with a long cushioned wall bench create a cozy atmosphere. Seating in the bistro is snug and it can get uncomfortably loud, particulary if there is live music. A small but pleasant outdoor front patio is ideal for lunch or brunch during good weather. Wheelchair accessible.

 

THE CROWD Runs the gamut, from couples out for a romantic meal and singles at the bar to groups and families (There is a children's menu available but rambunctious children would not be appropriate). Great date spot or for small groups. Dress is casual.

 

THE BAR The centerpiece is a nice selection of premium liqueurs and alcohols, The restaurant offers both specialty cocktails and wines by the glass or bottle. The small wine list features French wines of varying quality and price.

 

THE BILL Entrees from $19 to $26; specials as high as $34. Major credit cards accepted.

 

WHAT WE LIKED  Baked camembert, French fries, mixed greens salad, New Zealand lamb ribs served with mashed potatoes and vegetables ($18) and Tornedos Rossini: beef with foie gras, fig chutney with vegetables and frites ($24).

 

IF YOU GO Lunch: Monday to Sunday, 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. Dinner: Monday to Sunday, 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. Reservations are recommended, especially for Friday and Saturday nights. Free private parking lot across the street from the restaurant. The Harels also run a custom bakery business on-site for weddings and special events.

 

RATINGS Overall O.K. but not great. Fairly expensive for bistro fare with slow but well-intentioned service and dishes of inconsistent quality. Has the potential to evolve but would not visit again anytime soon. . Only the test of time will tell if Salé Sucré can survive long enough to mature and realize its full potential.

[SilverJK]

A simple link would have sufficed....

[s3mh]

Except the already increasing number of restaurants in the neighborhood. 

 

Witchcraft is not within shepard and durham, but basically on the corner of 11th and shep.  Not too hard to imagine something similar inbetween them being successful.  Lifting the alchohol ban (which is rediculous in the first place) would definitely open opportunity for people to open some nice(and successful) bars/restaurants between shepard and durham. 

Nobody expects some miracle... but one or two more options sure would be nice.    I also think your disdain for the "cruddy booze barns" just shows what kind of person you are.  You afriad of "Ice house" patrons?

But if it is not hard to imagine another Witchcraft in the dry zone, then why isn't there anything even close in the thousands of square feet of retail space between White Oak Bayou and 16th st? Could it be because I am right that bar and restaurant owners do not want to be on N. Shep?

If you want to fill 16th to 26th with stuff like Buffalo Fred's Ice House and the Fiesta Liquor Mart, then that is your problem. I am very glad that the dry zone has kept that stuff out. Car dealerships are not pretty, but they close by 9 pm and don't blast music and fill the streets with drunk drivers and noisy Harleys. And if not wanting ice houses and liquor stores lining the street in your neighborhood makes you a snob, about 95% of Houstonians would be snobs.

[s3mh]

Also, what do you suppose land values are on Washington and White Oak?

Shady Acres is way cheaper than along N. Shep., especially back when Cedar Creek, et. al first moved in. Washington and White Oak are comparable in some parts, cheaper in others. But it is a no brainer if you are looking for a site for your restaurant or bar whether you want to be along 4 lanes of one way traffic or on White Oak or Washington. There is a ton of real estate between 6th and 16th on N. Shep, but not a single decent restaurant or bar. That is not because they are close to the dry zone. That is because no one wants to have a bar or restaurant where patrons sit on the patio and watch 4 lanes of I-10/610 cut trhough traffic.

[AlainHarvey]

Salé Sucré is located on a particularly unattractive span of White Oak in a small, generic strip center just off Studewood not far from I-10 but you'll see the restaurant's glow before you even enter. And once in, you will be quickly enveloped by a welcoming, warm sensibility.

 

There aren't any other places in the nearby area that offer such nuanced French bistro fare. This lack of competition is both a blessing and a curse, translating into generally higher prices than one would normally expect to pay for the inconsistent quality and simple menu.

 

Philippe Harel and his wife Béline are the husband-wife entrepreneurial duo behind Salé Sucré. Unfussy yet dignified, Salé Sucré is relaxed but possesses a certain sophistication. On a Thursday evening when we visited the live music's volume was much too loud for the small space, precluding any attempt at having a conversation with our guests while eating. The music was good but left our heads throbbing by the end of the evening.

 

The waiters know about the food, and they're attentive without being overbearing. While well-intentioned, the bartender and small wait staff can be easily overwhelmed resulting in service that is often slow. You will need to be patient.

 

The order of service was disjointed and somewhat surreal. After an extended wait, our bottle of wine arrived while we were still wondering what happened to our cocktail order. Our cocktails arrived half-way through the appetizers. After several requests, bread (a single small loaf) initially made an appearance mid-way through the meal. Our water glasses, once empty, were not replenished.

 

Once the bread arrived it was a joy in the form of a single miniature, delicious peasant baguette. Unfortunately, it was too small to adequately share between our party of four diners. Luckily, after several further requests, additional loaves began arriving at weirdly-timed intervals but we were glad to have it. A collection of our used plates and glasses acquired throughout the evening went uncollected. It was an uncomfortably tight fit to serve dessert and coffee at our table towards the end of the night.

 

The small menu, still apparently a work in progress, includes a lengthy list of both savory and sweet crêpe dishes, plus starters that include pan-fried Camembert served with spinach salad and honey dressing. The chef uses fresh herbs, which are well sourced and typically incorporated in well-chosen combinations. Main lunch entrees are somewhat pricey, and dinners are even more expensive. We found many menu items to be either over or under-seasoned resulting in food that was generally good but inconsistent, missing the mark of being great. The moules marinières in particular were bland due to inadequate seasoning and cooked for much too long resulting in an unpleasant, rubbery texture. The baked camembert was good overly doused in honey creating a too sweet mess, while the couscous was extremely due to an overly free-hand with the seasoning.

 

Salé Sucré is a good choice for simple bistro fare, like savory or sweet crepes and frites. Dining at Salé Sucré isn't perfect -- but unfortunately it's about as close as you'll get to Paris within this area of the Heights where a lack of restaurant diversity persists.

 

DON'T MISS

 

THE SPACE Situated in a nondescript strip center, this bistro has an interior that is an entirely different story, with a welcoming bar and a handful of colorful tables creating a dining area with a warm French bistro feel. Soft lighting, wood floors and scattered cushioned seats along with a long cushioned wall bench create a cozy atmosphere. Seating in the bistro is snug and it can get uncomfortably loud, particularly if there is live music. A small but pleasant outdoor front patio is ideal for lunch or brunch during good weather. Wheelchair accessible.

 

THE CROWD Runs the gamut, from couples out for a romantic meal and singles at the bar to groups and families (There is a children's menu available but rambunctious children would not be appropriate). Great date spot or for small groups. Dress is casual.

 

THE BAR The centerpiece is a nice selection of premium liqueurs and alcohols, The restaurant offers both specialty cocktails and wines by the glass or bottle. The small wine list features French wines of varying quality and price.

 

THE BILL Entrees from $19 to $26; specials as high as $34. Major credit cards accepted.

 

WHAT WE LIKED Baked camembert, French fries, mixed greens salad, New Zealand lamb ribs served with mashed potatoes and vegetables ($18) and Tornedos Rossini: beef with foie gras, fig chutney with vegetables and frites ($24).

 

IF YOU GO Lunch: Monday to Sunday, 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. Dinner: Monday to Sunday, 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. Reservations are recommended, especially for Friday and Saturday nights. Free private parking lot across the street from the restaurant. The Harels also run a custom bakery business on-site for weddings and special events.

 

RATINGS Overall barely O.K. Surprisingly expensive for bistro fare with slow but well-intentioned service and dishes of inconsistent quality. Has the potential to evolve but would not visit again anytime soon.. Only the test of time will tell if Salé Sucré will survive long enough to realize its full potential. I hope so.

[Ross]

We read all that the first time it was posted.

[Marksmu]

Except the already increasing number of restaurants in the neighborhood. 

 

Witchcraft is not within shepard and durham, but basically on the corner of 11th and shep.  Not too hard to imagine something similar inbetween them being successful.  Lifting the alchohol ban (which is rediculous in the first place) would definitely open opportunity for people to open some nice(and successful) bars/restaurants between shepard and durham. 

Nobody expects some miracle... but one or two more options sure would be nice.    I also think your disdain for the "cruddy booze barns" just shows what kind of person you are.  You afriad of "Ice house" patrons?

 

For once I agree with S3MH - we don't need more BARS in the Heights, we need nice places that have good food & can serve alcohol.  The up till 2am crowd is seldom good for property values, and the parking problems that follow them are not fun to deal with either.

 

I also loathe the loud motorcycle butt-clowns who think the whole world needs to know that they are coming/going.  Each/Every time the dip-wad down the street comes home at 2am with his loud motorcycle and wakes both my kids up with his blaring music and even louder tailpipes - I contemplate setting his house on fire...If I did not have other neighbors that it would annoy I would get up a 5am and mow my yard and toss in an extra 20 minutes of leaf blowing just to tick him off...alas - I am polite so I just get annoyed, but still - we don't need more bars - we need more nice places...Witchcraft seems to be a nice compromise a place with a nice crowd...but we need an ice-house like we need a hole in our heads.

[kylejack]

For once I agree with S3MH - we don't need more BARS in the Heights, we need nice places that have good food & can serve alcohol.  The up till 2am crowd is seldom good for property values, and the parking problems that follow them are not fun to deal with either.

 

How do you expect to attract restaurants with alcohol if you support the alcohol ban with s3mh? Down House is an anomaly. Most business people aren't going to see the point in putting up with the "private club" workaround when there's an entire city out there that doesn't restrict them in this way.

Edited March 4, 2013 by kylejack

[SilverJK]

For once I agree with S3MH - we don't need more BARS in the Heights, we need nice places that have good food & can serve alcohol.  The up till 2am crowd is seldom good for property values, and the parking problems that follow them are not fun to deal with either.

 

I also loathe the loud motorcycle butt-clowns who think the whole world needs to know that they are coming/going.  Each/Every time the dip-wad down the street comes home at 2am with his loud motorcycle and wakes both my kids up with his blaring music and even louder tailpipes - I contemplate setting his house on fire...If I did not have other neighbors that it would annoy I would get up a 5am and mow my yard and toss in an extra 20 minutes of leaf blowing just to tick him off...alas - I am polite so I just get annoyed, but still - we don't need more bars - we need more nice places...Witchcraft seems to be a nice compromise a place with a nice crowd...but we need an ice-house like we need a hole in our heads.

 

So its okay to tell others what to do with their property when it is in line with your agenda? 

 

I would love a nice IceHouse between shepard and durham somewhere between 11th and 18th.  The motorcycle complaint should be moot since it is already between two 4 lane oneway streets.  Not every motorcycle rider has loud pipes, and some of them that do have loud pipes try not to rack the exhaust around homes late at night...  your "dip-wad" neighbor reminds me of this jack-wagon schmuck down the street from me with a big F-250 4x4 diesel with a stack pipe running out of the bed... he comes home at 3 am and revs his truck up while doing a 7 point turn to back into his driveway... 

 

For the record... I ride a beast/monster of a bike which is why I take offense...  a Vespa ET2 (50cc) with completely stock everything.  (about as wimply as it gets)

[s3mh]

How do you expect to attract restaurants with alcohol if you support the alcohol ban with s3mh? Down House is an anomaly. Most business people aren't going to see the point in putting up with the "private club" workaround when there's an entire city out there that doesn't restrict them in this way.

Shade is in the dry area and does the private club thing. Coltivare is opening in the dry area and will undoubtedly do the private club thing too (unless they are in that little carve out along White Oak that is wet). And then you have Beck's Prime, Lola, Jenni's, Collinas, Thai Spice, Revival Market, Dry Creek, Happy Fatz, soon to be Heights General Store and Torchy's (should both be club locations if they serve), Kraftsmen, and a bunch of others that do not serve (Angela's oven, Crickets, La Carreta, etc.). Frankly, the best thing about the dry area is that it keeps bar concentration down and keeps out the possibility of another Washington Ave-esque booze district from crashing the Heights. I will gladly take the improved quality of life over being short a few restaurants and bars in the Heights. Montrose will always have better restaurants than the Heights because there are no restrictions. But, Montrose has some major traffic and parking headaches that we avoid in the Heights thanks to the dry restriction.

[SilverJK]

A lot of those places opened in spite of the dry zone, that alone should tell you how much restaurants/bars want to move in to the area...

[kylejack]

Shade is in the dry area and does the private club thing. Coltivare is opening in the dry area and will undoubtedly do the private club thing too (unless they are in that little carve out along White Oak that is wet). And then you have Beck's Prime, Lola, Jenni's, Collinas, Thai Spice, Revival Market, Dry Creek, Happy Fatz, soon to be Heights General Store and Torchy's (should both be club locations if they serve), Kraftsmen, and a bunch of others that do not serve (Angela's oven, Crickets, La Carreta, etc.). Frankly, the best thing about the dry area is that it keeps bar concentration down and keeps out the possibility of another Washington Ave-esque booze district from crashing the Heights. I will gladly take the improved quality of life over being short a few restaurants and bars in the Heights. Montrose will always have better restaurants than the Heights because there are no restrictions. But, Montrose has some major traffic and parking headaches that we avoid in the Heights thanks to the dry restriction.

 

Was discussing with marksmu restaurants that serve alcohol, not Beck's Prime, Lola, Jenni's, Collinas, Thai Spice, Revival Market, Dry Creek, Happy Fatz, soon to be Heights General Store and Torchy's. Yes, I'm aware of Shade and Coltivare, but so many restaurants with no alcohol, I think demonstrates my point.

Edited March 4, 2013 by kylejack

[fwki]

All this bashing of drunks, nightowls, metal heads and bikers is upsetting me. And where we congregate shouldn't be an issue as long as it's closer to your house than my house and I have a back route home. But seriously, this is squeezing a balloon, with development somebody gets hosed to benefit the rest. Just buy location wisely and hope the City doesn't change the important rules midstream.

[Marksmu]

So its okay to tell others what to do with their property when it is in line with your agenda? 

 

There is a big difference here - The area has been dry for a long time - this is not a new restriction.  I do not support the taking of property rights when a person has no say and its done retroactively....That is a big difference....To be clear, I do not want the area to be dry but conversely I do not want it to turn into a bar scene.  While the area between Shepherd/Durham can arguably support the noise/etc of a bar and seems to be a great location - the area can't accommodate the parking.  With property values where they are - the bars are just going to depend on the patrons parking in the neighborhood, which will in turn create the problems that all bars in neighborhoods create.  Can't we just have a nice place that is not only a bar? 

 

 

I would love a nice IceHouse between shepard and durham somewhere between 11th and 18th.  The motorcycle complaint should be moot since it is already between two 4 lane oneway streets.  Not every motorcycle rider has loud pipes, and some of them that do have loud pipes try not to rack the exhaust around homes late at night...  your "dip-wad" neighbor reminds me of this jack-wagon schmuck down the street from me with a big F-250 4x4 diesel with a stack pipe running out of the bed... he comes home at 3 am and revs his truck up while doing a 7 point turn to back into his driveway... 

I hate the inconsiderate folks no matter who they are and what they drive - but a disproportionate number of motorcycle riders are inconsiderate dip-wads...when you talk to them they always say they are not inconsiderate...."they require loud pipes to be safe on the road" so the jerk car drivers dont kill them.  To that I believe they should have to push their bikes home at 2am when driving through a neighborhood.

 

For the record... I ride a beast/monster of a bike which is why I take offense...  a Vespa ET2 (50cc) with completely stock everything.  (about as wimply as it gets)

I've got a completely stock F250 diesel and I actually push it out of my driveway on weekends when I leave very early b/c I am aware that my driveway is 3' from my neighbors bedroom window and it is loud when it starts.  There is no way to make it any quieter than it currently is...I don't have to do that, and she has never asked me to do it - but I know its loud when it first starts and if I am leaving at 3 or 4 in the morning I think its rude to start it up right in her window....Especially when its cold outside.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Marksmu

[SilverJK]

There is a big difference here - The area has been dry for a long time - this is not a new restriction.  I do not support the taking of property rights when a person has no say and its done retroactively....That is a big difference....To be clear, I do not want the area to be dry but conversely I do not want it to turn into a bar scene.  While the area between Shepherd/Durham can arguably support the noise/etc of a bar and seems to be a great location - the area can't accommodate the parking.  With property values where they are - the bars are just going to depend on the patrons parking in the neighborhood, which will in turn create the problems that all bars in neighborhoods create.  Can't we just have a nice place that is not only a bar? 

 

 

I hate the inconsiderate folks no matter who they are and what they drive - but a disproportionate number of motorcycle riders are inconsiderate dip-wads...when you talk to them they always say they are not inconsiderate...."they require loud pipes to be safe on the road" so the jerk car drivers dont kill them.  To that I believe they should have to push their bikes home at 2am when driving through a neighborhood.

 

I've got a completely stock F250 diesel and I actually push it out of my driveway on weekends when I leave very early b/c I am aware that my driveway is 3' from my neighbors bedroom window and it is loud when it starts.  There is no way to make it any quieter than it currently is...I don't have to do that, and she has never asked me to do it - but I know its loud when it first starts and if I am leaving at 3 or 4 in the morning I think its rude to start it up right in her window....Especially when its cold outside.

 

So you don't want the area dry, but you want to make sure bars don't move in... and that isn't trying to tell people to do with their property how?

 

 

The number of loud motorcycles pales in comparison to the number of loud tow trucks, big trucks with exhaust, import "sporty" cars with coffee can sized exhaust tips, and people blasting spanish polka that drive by my house...   I think your disdain for motorcycles might be trickling over from your disdain for bicyclist...

 

You must have a completely flat driveway to be able to push such a huge truck.  (I could barely push a shopping cart out of my driveway.)

[KinkaidAlum]

Since when does Montrose have terrible parking issues?

 

Some of you folks need to travel a bit. Parking in Houston is still very, very easy.

 

The only problems with parking in this town are for two reasons;

 

1) People are lazy and wont walk more than 13 feet.

2) People are entitled and think no one should ever be parked in front of their house.

[Marksmu]

Since when does Montrose have terrible parking issues?

 

Some of you folks need to travel a bit. Parking in Houston is still very, very easy.

 

The only problems with parking in this town are for two reasons;

 

1) People are lazy and wont walk more than 13 feet.

2) People are entitled and think no one should ever be parked in front of their house.

 

3)  The street is only 16 feet wide, and its not possible to back out of your driveway if another car is parked behind it.

[kylejack]

Not in that big old truck you're always boasting about.

[Marksmu]

So you don't want the area dry, but you want to make sure bars don't move in... and that isn't trying to tell people to do with their property how?

 

 

The number of loud motorcycles pales in comparison to the number of loud tow trucks, big trucks with exhaust, import "sporty" cars with coffee can sized exhaust tips, and people blasting spanish polka that drive by my house...   I think your disdain for motorcycles might be trickling over from your disdain for bicyclist...

 

You must have a completely flat driveway to be able to push such a huge truck.  (I could barely push a shopping cart out of my driveway.)

 

My driveway slants towards the street the whole way...its all paved  But that truck, though heavy, is very easy to roll...especially slightly downhill.

 

On topic though - I dont much prefer for the late night folks to be mixed into neighborhoods...but without zoning there is nothing to prevent it.

 

So - While I am against most restrictions to property in general, I am actually not against reasonable restrictions that are intended to keep a residential area residential....though even that argument is not very good here when referring to the area in question...its actually a perfect area for commercial/restaurant/bar, etc...that is if they can keep their cars out of the neighborhood...just like the historic ordinance - I was against that, but I am for establishing minimum lot sizes...

 

I don't think a neighborhood should have to be inconvenienced with a bunch of cars parked on their street all the time so that some bar owner does not have to pay to buy sufficient parking.

[Marksmu]

Not in that big old truck you're always boasting about.

 

I fell off the driveway in my truck one time...it was an ordeal....My truck needs quite a bit more area to turn...so getting in/out of my driveway is indeed impossible in my truck if someone parks behind my driveway.

 

I can do it in my wife's car, but it is actually physically impossible in my truck....Its more than just an inconvenience when someone blocks you in your driveway....Ive been tempted to just put in 4wd and back them off into the ditch, but alas I'm a reasonable person.

[SilverJK]

My vespa needs little to no room to turn... neither do those loud evil motorcycles... they also don't take up much parking....  so an Ice House would be ideal!

 

 

 

Any updates on Torchy's or Coltivare? 

[kylejack]

Torchy's and the Heights are the best possible fit, and I mean that in the worst possible way.

[s3mh]

Any updates on Coltivare? 

They are saying summer opening:

http://revivalmarket.com/coltivare-preview-dinner/

Building is gutted and ready for build out.

[RedScare]

Since when does Montrose have terrible parking issues?

 

Some of you folks need to travel a bit. Parking in Houston is still very, very easy.

 

The only problems with parking in this town are for two reasons;

 

1) People are lazy and wont walk more than 13 feet.

2) People are entitled and think no one should ever be parked in front of their house.

 

Kinkaid...

 

Consider the source of the comment. 

[fwki]

I'm changing my nick to SlumAlum.

[callisthenes]

I don't think a neighborhood should have to be inconvenienced with a bunch of cars parked on their street all the time so that some bar owner does not have to pay to buy sufficient parking.

 

 

Not sure what the Historical District’s restrictions are on those parking lots.  I suppose if Victorian homes are razed to make way for the lots, they would have to be paved with cobblestones and have Victorian-era hitching posts along the perimeter.  If it’s Craftsman style homes removed to make way, maybe Prairie style fencing and concrete or tarmac paving with era-appropriate gravel.  No painted lines designating spaces on either one, unless it’s era appropriate lead based.

[s3mh]

Kinkaid...

 

Consider the source of the comment. 

Of course, when you resort to your childish insults, it just means that I am spot on. The revision to the parking lot ordinance is coming from all the people in Mayor Parker's neighborhood in Montrose complaining about all the parking overflow from Westheimer. I went to Poscol a few weeks ago and had to park a block away from S. Alabama. It doesn't bother me that I had to walk a few blocks to get to the restaurant. But, it does bother the residents that people will frequently block their driveways, barf on their lawns as 2:30 am and get into horn honking fights with other drivers over parking spaces at 10:30 pm on Friday night in their neighborhood. They are the ones complaining about the parking issue.

[kylejack]

Blocking driveways is illegal and tow trucks are happy to oblige.

[Marksmu]

Blocking driveways is illegal and tow trucks are happy to oblige.

 

But are they considered blocking the driveway when they are just legally parked behind it on a very narrow street?  I have wondered this question for a very long time.  My particular street has ditches (some dont) and the ditch starts at most 6 inches from the white line on the road, so even running off in the grass is not feasible. 

 

MOST vehicles can easily navigate in/out of the driveway - but I can not.  The turning radius on my truck is too wide and the driveway, though wide, is not wide enough to turn a truck around in.

 

That said - I have no restaurants on my street so its only an occasional problem when a neighbor has a party, or there is construction on a house.  I would go out of my mind crazy if a bar/restaurant opened up that did not have enough parking, and the cars going to/from the restaurant made it impossible for me to get in my driveway.  If it happened daily I would be the type to invest in a tow dolly and move the offending parker a block or ten away....Is that considered stealing?