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I was very surprised to learn today that a working knowledge of English is a requirement for becoming a U.S. citizen. I guess the part that surprised me is that we're not supposed to have an official language, but that requirement kind of makes it de facto English.

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from my friend John over at "By the Bayou": http://bythebayou.com/

Harmony

The latest "controversy" about immigration is about... what do you think? The right way to secure the border? The low wage jobs often filled by illegal immigrants? The appropriate quota for numbers of immigrants from Mexico and Latin America? Who should have access to the process for becoming a legal resident?

No, none of that silly trivia, it's about a Spanish-language version of "The Start Spangled Banner."

The national anthem that once endured the radical transformation administered by Jimi Hendrix's fuzzed and frantic Stratocaster now faces an artistic dare at least as extreme: translation into Spanish...

Can "The Star-Spangled Banner," and the republic for which it stands, survive? Outrage over what's being called "The Illegal Alien Anthem" is already building in the blogosphere and among conservative commentators.

Timed to debut the week Congress returned to debate immigration reform, with the country riven by the issue, "Nuestro Himno" is intended to be an anthem of solidarity for the movement that has drawn hundreds of thousands of people to march peacefully for immigrant rights in Washington and cities across the country, says Adam Kidron, president of Urban Box Office, the New York-based entertainment company that launched the project.

"It's the one thing everybody has in common, the aspiration to have a relationship with the United States . . . and also to express gratitude and patriotism to the United States for providing the opportunity," says Kidron.

Not surprisingly, this isn't something that many on the right approve of.

But critics including columnist Michelle Malkin, who coined "The Illegal Alien Anthem" nickname, say the rendition crosses a line that Hendrix never stepped over with his instrumental version. Transforming the musical idiom of "The Star-Spangled Banner" is one thing, argue the skeptics, but translating the words sends the opposite message: We are not Americans.

"I'm really appalled. . . . We are not a bilingual nation," said George Taplin, director of the Virginia Chapter of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, part of a national countermovement that emphasizes border control and tougher enforcement, and objects to public funding for day-laborer sites. "When people are talking about becoming a part of this country, they should assimilate to the norm that's already here," Taplin said. "What we're talking about here is a sovereign nation with our ideals and our national identity, and that [anthem]is one of the icons of our nation's identity. I believe it should be in English as it was penned."

Yet, even in English, 61 percent of adults don't know all the words, a recent Harris poll found.

Well, a couple of thoughts. First, we are not a bilingual nation. Nor are we a monolingual nation. English has become the language of our nation in the healthiest possible way: through voluntary adoption over hundreds of years. And as fond as some conservatives are of bringing up the specter of language problems, it's a red herring; every indication shows that immigrants are in fact adopting English as fast or faster than immigrants of the past. The difference is that they are often continuing to use Spanish in their personal lives.

(An interesting side note: "The Star Spangled Banner" became our national anthem in a similar grass roots way. The lyrics were writeen in 1814, and it was commonly sung to the tune of an English drinking song; it didn't become the anthm until 1931, more than a century later.)

Oh, the horror: increasing numbers of bilingual Amerians who comfortably use English in their daily lives but also know Spanish, the language of their parents and of a huge portion of the western hemisphere. Why, they may find themselves well suited to jobs that involve talking to people in the growing markets of Central and South America! Will the republic survive?

While critics sketch a nightmare scenario of a Canada-like land with an anthem sung in two languages, immigrant rights advocates say they agree learning English is essential. Studies of immigrant families suggest the process is inevitable: Eighty-two percent to 90 percent of the children of immigrants prefer English.

"The first step to understanding something is to understand it in the language you understand, and then you can understand it in another language," said Leo Chavez, director of Chicano/Latino Studies at the University of California at Irvine. "What this song represents at this moment is a communal shout, that the dream of America, which is represented by the song, is their dream, too."

Well, that really is the point. I would say that this Spanish-language anthem is a political miscalculation; surely those behind it should have realized that they were tossing raw meat for know-nothings like Michelle Malkin to chew on and excrete as more xenophobic propaganda.

But the intent behind it does not disturb me at all. Here you have a group of people who are saying, in a variety of ways, that the United States is their great hope and they want to be part of it. Yes, they will bring along their own culture and traditions, just as every other immigrant group has. (Funny, I don't see anyone worrying that St. Patrick's Day parades will make us all too Irish, or that drinking beer for Oktoberfest is going to Germanicize the nation, or that too many bagels and Yiddish phrases that have entered common use are turning us into another Israel.)

As for the anthem, well, this is how things happen in the United States: people do what they are moved to do, because they are free to do so; later their efforts are recognized as part of our shared national heritage... or they are not. That applies to national symbols as much as our ever-changing language (which now have more Spanish influences than it did 100 years ago, and probably will have more in 2106), foods, sports, dress, recreation, and so on. Some of the right are terrified by this and want to freeze this moment in time as a definition of what it means to be American. Personally, I think the idea of being American is strong and enduring enough to change and grow with the people who live it.

There are important issues to be sorted out in the immigration debate. This isn't one of them.

Just a little perspective...

B)

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I think it should be done in hebrew and aramaic too, since one of my parents is an Israeli immigrant. And lets not forget swahili and chinese and arabic and hindu etc etc....these are the languages of many of the legal immigrants that come to this country, most of which have higher education that would blow many Americans out of the water, but they learn and speak english.........very seldom do you hear them speak thier native tongues outside of thier homes or businesses. The same people that raise thier hand and swear alliegance to the USA and all that it stands for and not run rampant in the streets hailing the flag of thier nations of origin....... AMAZING.

I was told something once when i was a child......." America most likely will not be conquered by an enemy nation...it will most likely implode because the people will become too used to being spoiled and fall into a false enlightenment which breeds arrogance, to the point they have nothing in which they feel is worth standing for. It will mostly start small and build from there......."

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It's important for context to know that this particular publicity stunt was arranged by a British music producer who saw America's troubles on the news and smelled an opportunity to make a buck and a name for himself.

In the Spanish version, didn't it start off with Jose, instead of O Say?

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What a duffus. Bush stated that the national anthem should be sung in English and immigrants to this nation should speak English.

Hell, Bush ought to learn how to speak English before asking anyone else to do so!

You do realize this is not a dictatorship and Bush will not be in office forever right? This is something that goes WAY beyond political crap and silly political parties.

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What a duffus. Bush stated that the national anthem should be sung in English and immigrants to this nation should speak English.

Hell, Bush ought to learn how to speak English before asking anyone else to do so!

You heard the saying...fool me once, shame on....shame on...you? You fool'em, can't get fooled again!...

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Good one! Jose!

For those that have a difficult time understanding why some are offended by the Spanish Star Spangled Banner. Imagine the outrage if a group of individuals decided to insert the U.S. flag into the top corner of another flag . . . say Puerto Rico's. Do you think there might be an uproar about altering their nationalistic symbol? A country's symbol is sacred, and should remain un-molested. Keep the Star Spangled Banner in english.

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Thank you for the attempt to explain the outrage of the spanish National Anthem. But, frankly, I am no more offended by this interpretation of the Anthem than I am when a country star warbles it in his best cowboy twang at Talladega, or when Whitney Houston attempts to impress us with the range of her vocal cords, rather than the words to the song, or most famously, when Jimi Hendrix wailed the Anthem on his Stratocaster in protest in the 60s.

The offense taken at this version is offense taken at the mesage, not the words. Just as the drunken throngs at a NASCAR race think that the country rendition is somehow more patriotic because a country singer is perceived as more patriotic, the spanish version is perceived as less patriotic, as the singers and their intended audience is perceived as less patriotic.

Imitation is seen as the sincerest form of flattery...except of course, when one dislikes the imitator. Americans love to disgrace the flag by plastering it on the bumper of their SUV, to get splattered in mud, to wear it as a shirt to sell cheap furniture, or as a headpiece while riding their motorcycles.

This form of abuse of a national symbol is seen as patriotic. But, when the flag is hoisted aloft by demonstrators, especially when the demonstrators are diliked, the "patriotic" rush to the defense of the flag.

I believe this is as it should be. Patriotism is a tool used by government to whip the otherwise skeptical citizenry into line. It encourages blind allegiance to the flag, and therefore the government. Like hearing the first few notes of the school fight song incites an approving roar from the crowd at a football game, so does the waving of the flag or playing the Anthem inspire patriotic citizens to stop questioning the government and pledge allegiance to the flag.

Why should it be this way? If the masses were to question their government, the government would not be able to make the critical decisions necessary to protect the citizens. The government knows what is best, and should be allowed to do it's job without interference from unpatriotic citizens. Having a flag and an Anthem allows the government to achieve this noble objective with a minimum of disruption.

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Thank you for the attempt to explain the outrage of the spanish National Anthem. But, frankly, I am no more offended by this interpretation of the Anthem than I am when a country star warbles it in his best cowboy twang at Talladega, or when Whitney Houston attempts to impress us with the range of her vocal cords, rather than the words to the song, or most famously, when Jimi Hendrix wailed the Anthem on his Stratocaster in protest in the 60s.

The offense taken at this version is offense taken at the mesage, not the words. Just as the drunken throngs at a NASCAR race think that the country rendition is somehow more patriotic because a country singer is perceived as more patriotic, the spanish version is perceived as less patriotic, as the singers and their intended audience is perceived as less patriotic.

Imitation is seen as the sincerest form of flattery...except of course, when one dislikes the imitator. Americans love to disgrace the flag by plastering it on the bumper of their SUV, to get splattered in mud, to wear it as a shirt to sell cheap furniture, or as a headpiece while riding their motorcycles.

This form of abuse of a national symbol is seen as patriotic. But, when the flag is hoisted aloft by demonstrators, especially when the demonstrators are diliked, the "patriotic" rush to the defense of the flag.

I believe this is as it should be. Patriotism is a tool used by government to whip the otherwise skeptical citizenry into line. It encourages blind allegiance to the flag, and therefore the government. Like hearing the first few notes of the school fight song incites an approving roar from the crowd at a football game, so does the waving of the flag or playing the Anthem inspire patriotic citizens to stop questioning the government and pledge allegiance to the flag.

Why should it be this way? If the masses were to question their government, the government would not be able to make the critical decisions necessary to protect the citizens. The government knows what is best, and should be allowed to do it's job without interference from unpatriotic citizens. Having a flag and an Anthem allows the government to achieve this noble objective with a minimum of disruption.

Are you new?

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What a duffus. Bush stated that the national anthem should be sung in English and immigrants to this nation should speak English.

Although the United States has no official language, learning English is a requirement of citizenship. You cannot become a citizen without learning English, so the second part of his statement isn't completely off base.

As for the first part, I'm not sure if I agree with that.

Good one! Jose!

For those that have a difficult time understanding why some are offended by the Spanish Star Spangled Banner. Imagine the outrage if a group of individuals decided to insert the U.S. flag into the top corner of another flag . . . say Puerto Rico's. Do you think there might be an uproar about altering their nationalistic symbol? A country's symbol is sacred, and should remain un-molested. Keep the Star Spangled Banner in english.

The flag analogy doesn't get to me. Maybe it should. But I'm having a hard time feeling outraged by this.

I think it might not be a bad idea to have the song translated into a bunch of different languages and broadcast around the world on VOA for everyone to hear and understand.

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I think it might not be a bad idea to have the song translated into a bunch of different languages and broadcast around the world on VOA for everyone to hear and understand.

Problem with that is, the American national anthem is not significant to the rest of the world, only to Americans as it very well should be. I dont think it should be translated, period. English is the language of the land, learn it or else.......... ;););)

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Problem with that is, the American national anthem is not significant to the rest of the world, only to Americans as it very well should be. I dont think it should be translated, period. English is the language of the land, learn it or else.......... ;););)

Correct.

Patriotism only works if the citizenry feels unique and superior. Translation of the patriotic anthem waters it down and in turn, waters down the militarism of the populace. If the citizenry doesn't feel there is something unique worth killing for, they will rebel against war. Therefore, there is nothing to be gained by allowing the Anthem to be sung in any other language than the predominant language of the patriotic citizens. Otherwise, the citizenry will opt for diplomacy.

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Correct.

Patriotism only works if the citizenry feels unique and superior. Translation of the patriotic anthem waters it down and in turn, waters down the militarism of the populace. If the citizenry doesn't feel there is something unique worth killing for, they will rebel against war. Therefore, there is nothing to be gained by allowing the Anthem to be sung in any other language than the predominant language of the patriotic citizens. Otherwise, the citizenry will opt for diplomacy.

When are you announcing your candidacy for the United Nothings, i mean United Nations?

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The day after you announce your candidacy for president under the Nazi Party.

http://www.americannaziparty.com/

Im very happy the GREAT ONES are resting in eternity so they would not have to witness some of the stuff you spew.......

GREAT ONES......

Admiral H G Rickover

General Curtis "Bombs Away" LeMay

General Daniel "Chappy" James

General John J "Black Jack" Pershing

General George S " Old Blood and Guts" Patton

A few great men that believed in the USA and the freedoms many of its spoiled citizens of today take for granted.

As for the American Nazi Party, you are too funny for words.............

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You left out my Dad and my brothers. I've discussed "Patriotism" with them. I've often wondered if Patton, Pershing and Rickover would agree. Being intelligent men, I bet they would agree. Whether they would agree to do away with it however......

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So how does Canada handle their "biligual" national anthem? (French and English)

Every time I've been to a hockey game down here where the locals allowed O Canada to be sun, it was in English. Even when it was Montreal playing the Cubs, which probably should have been a mashup of French and Polish.

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its not like the Spanish version is going to be adopted by the American Government as a new national anthem, let them sing whatever it is they want to sing. I'm an American-Mexican and i prefer English over Spanish but they have their unalienable right to freedom of speech and to sing whatever the hell they want. just my opinion.

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So how does Canada handle their "biligual" national anthem? (French and English)

Every time I've been to a hockey game down here where the locals allowed O Canada to be sun, it was in English. Even when it was Montreal playing the Cubs, which probably should have been a mashup of French and Polish.

Canada, our neighbor to the north..........i will need a shovel for that one

its not like the Spanish version is going to be adopted by the American Government as a new national anthem, let them sing whatever it is they want to sing. I'm an American-Mexican and i prefer English over Spanish but they have their unalienable right to freedom of speech and to sing whatever the hell they want. just my opinion.

What?!?!?!?!

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I really think this boils down to the attitude of those singing the anthem in spanish. The vast majority are not singing the anthem because there ready to die for America, rather they do it because it's part of the hootinanny that's being disguised as the new patriotism. It's a damn lie.

As a man that grew up in a military family that has fought in WWI, WWII and Korea, I am sickened by what a bunch of no gut wimps we have become. MY grandfather (career Colonal in Air Force) is heart broken by what's become of our attitude in this country. We have no backbone to stand up to the influx of illegals, and now were allowing them to desecrate our beloved anthem.

I generally try to stay out of the political threads on HAIF, but this really hits a spot with me. Come to think of it, most of what's going on in regards to this whole illegal BS hit's a spot with me.

I know, I know, I'm being to biased, am hateful, and am uninformed. Go ahead give it to me.

Edited by Gary
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I really think this boils down to the attitude of those singing the anthem in spanish. The vast majority are not singing the anthem because there ready to die for America, rather they do it because it's part of the hootinanny that's being disguised as the new patriotism. It's a damn lie.

As a man that grew up in a military family that has fought in WWI, WWII and Korea, I am sickened by what a bunch of no gut wimps we have become. MY grandfather (career Colonal in Air Force) is heart broken by what's become of our attitude in this country. We have no backbone to stand up to the influx of illegals, and now were allowing them to desecrate our beloved anthem.

I generally try to stay out of the political threads on HAIF, but this really hits a spot with me. Come to think of it, most of what's going on in regards to this whole illegal BS hit's a spot with me.

I know, I know, I'm being to biased, am hateful, and am uninformed. Go ahead give it to me.

Careful there Gary, you may get called a Nazi or something stupid like that for being patriotic. I too grew up in a family with a long line of service men going as far back as the US civil war and i also served myself. It makes me sick to see whats happening and the immediate rush to provide American rights and services in this country to non-Americans.........

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Yawn.

This is such a non-issue but we're behaving exactly how they (Feds) want us to; SHEEP.

This whole National Anthem "scandal" broke in the very same week that Congress watered down the ethics reform bill. Seems as if we the people have totally forgotten about Abramoff, DeLay, and all the other illegal shenanigans going on in D.C. because we're all up in arms about something really quite trivial.

So, while we're busy arguing about whether or not Maria singing the Anthem in Spanish will signify the Fall of the American Empire, some jackass (lobbyist/former Congress(wo)man) is up to something much more sinister.

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Yawn.

This is such a non-issue but we're behaving exactly how they (Feds) want us to; SHEEP.

This whole National Anthem "scandal" broke in the very same week that Congress watered down the ethics reform bill. Seems as if we the people have totally forgotten about Abramoff, DeLay, and all the other illegal shenanigans going on in D.C. because we're all up in arms about something really quite trivial.

So, while we're busy arguing about whether or not Maria singing the Anthem in Spanish will signify the Fall of the American Empire, some jackass (lobbyist/former Congress(wo)man) is up to something much more sinister.

trivial? TRIVIAL?????? Do you not understand that Liberal GAY Illegal ALIENS are here to destroy your marraige, steal Christmas and kill your unborn just for the fun of it and all you can come up with is some lame diversion to throw everyone off topic? Quit trying to defame the great patriots of today like DeLay, Cheney, Libby, Cunningham, Bush, Abramofoff, et al. Your very future depends on keeping the anthem in english even if most people don't know the words. TRIVIAL? I mock thee!!!

:lol:

B)

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trivial? TRIVIAL?????? Do you not understand that Liberal GAY Illegal ALIENS are here to destroy your marraige, steal Christmas and kill your unborn just for the fun of it and all you can come up with is some lame diversion to throw everyone off topic? Quit trying to defame the great patriots of today like DeLay, Cheney, Libby, Cunningham, Bush, Abramofoff, et al. Your very future depends on keeping the anthem in english even if most people don't know the words. TRIVIAL? I mock thee!!!

:lol:

B)

When are you going to start a thread about homosexuals?

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What a duffus. Bush stated that the national anthem should be sung in English and immigrants to this nation should speak English.

Hell, Bush ought to learn how to speak English before asking anyone else to do so!

Yeah it's pretty embarrassing when King Abdullah of Jordan can speak better English than Bush

Yes, this is one of the important issues confronting America today. Right after, 'Do you think the people on 'Lost' will ever get off the island?', and just before, 'Do we eat too much garlic as a people?'.

This was what I was thinking for not viewing this thread......I finally gave in. Needed a bit of a distraction and this was one of the few threads I haven

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its not like the Spanish version is going to be adopted by the American Government as a new national anthem, let them sing whatever it is they want to sing. I'm an American-Mexican and i prefer English over Spanish but they have their unalienable right to freedom of speech and to sing whatever the hell they want. just my opinion.

Thank you. I couldn't have put it better. This is just another over sensationalized story.

Yawn.

This is such a non-issue but we're behaving exactly how they (Feds) want us to; SHEEP.

This whole National Anthem "scandal" broke in the very same week that Congress watered down the ethics reform bill. Seems as if we the people have totally forgotten about Abramoff, DeLay, and all the other illegal shenanigans going on in D.C. because we're all up in arms about something really quite trivial.

So, while we're busy arguing about whether or not Maria singing the Anthem in Spanish will signify the Fall of the American Empire, some jackass (lobbyist/former Congress(wo)man) is up to something much more sinister.

I concur B)

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This is from Bob Schieffer on Face the Nation this morning:

In the ongoing effort to make our national debate about all the wrong things we may have reached a milestone with the controversy over whether its alright for the National Anthem to be sung in Spanish

The blogs went nuts about it of course -- going nuts is their natural state. Talk radio saw danger ahead -- cover the children's ears.

I'm with them on insisting that everyone who wants to be a citizen should learn English. In an increasingly diverse country, common experiences have become rarer and rarer and our language is one of the few things we all share. There is strength in that.

But the anthem in English only? I don't get it.

It made me proud to be an American when they tore down the Berlin Wall as We Shall Overcome -- an American spiritual -- played on the young people's boom boxes. And who among us can forget how we felt when those brave Chinese students brought a papier-mache Statue of Liberty into Tiananmen Square.

When people take our symbols of freedom as their own, it doesn't weaken our values, it affirms they are universal. That makes us stronger, not weaker.

So I hope our anthem will be sung one day in a hundred languages and I am not worried that translating it will somehow dilute its message. Translation hasn't seemed to hurt the Bible.

And since I speak neither Hebrew nor Greek, I'm glad they went to the trouble on that one. Otherwise, I might have missed the whole thing.

Now the far right wingers like Limbaugh and O'Reilley will twist this sincere believe into something ugly just to advance their own selfish intrests, but the fact remains: imitation is the sincereist form of flattery.

B)

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This is from Bob Schieffer on Face the Nation this morning:

Now the far right wingers like Limbaugh and O'Reilley will twist this sincere believe into something ugly just to advance their own selfish intrests, but the fact remains: imitation is the sincereist form of flattery.

B)

All those are fine examples. I speak fluent hebrew english german russian and some aramaic. I am going to submit the anthem be translated into those languages........ I will think of other symbols of America to unAmericanized while im at it. I probably can make a few bucks at the same time.

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Well Well Well. Surprise-Surprise!

Seems as if Republican lawmakers in D.C. are now going after the Voting Rights Act and are trying to ban bilingual ballots and poll interpreters.

God Bless America and Americans who speak English-only!

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This is from Bob Schieffer on Face the Nation this morning:

Now the far right wingers like Limbaugh and O'Reilley will twist this sincere believe into something ugly just to advance their own selfish intrests, but the fact remains: imitation is the sincereist form of flattery.

B)

This gave me goose bumps.

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Well Well Well. Surprise-Surprise!

Seems as if Republican lawmakers in D.C. are now going after the Voting Rights Act and are trying to ban bilingual ballots and poll interpreters.

God Bless America and Americans who speak English-only!

Are you being facetious, or for real ? I smell some sarcasm in that statement. Explain why the ballots in Mexico and other Spanish speaking countries don't have English on their ballots ?

Did you also know that the official language of America was almost "German" after the Colonial war, and we gained our independence ? It only lost out by like 2000 votes, that is how much we wanted to distance this great country of ours from England ?

Sorry, to keep picking out your thoughts Kinkaid, your comments today are just standing out the most to me. They are some good statements, I just need a little more out of them. ^_^

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Are you being facetious, or for real ? I smell some sarcasm in that statement. Explain why the ballots in Mexico and other Spanish speaking countries don't have English on their ballots ?

Did you also know that the official language of America was almost "German" after the Colonial war, and we gained our independence ? It only lost out by like 2000 votes, that is how much we wanted to distance this great country of ours from England ?

Sorry, to keep picking out your thoughts Kinkaid, your comments today are just standing out the most to me. They are some good statements, I just need a little more out of them. ^_^

All the Rice graduates know that :):):):):)

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Yawn.

This is such a non-issue but we're behaving exactly how they (Feds) want us to; SHEEP.

This whole National Anthem "scandal" broke in the very same week that Congress watered down the ethics reform bill. Seems as if we the people have totally forgotten about Abramoff, DeLay, and all the other illegal shenanigans going on in D.C. because we're all up in arms about something really quite trivial.

So, while we're busy arguing about whether or not Maria singing the Anthem in Spanish will signify the Fall of the American Empire, some jackass (lobbyist/former Congress(wo)man) is up to something much more sinister.

This rant brought to you by the Northwest Idaho Tinfoil Hat Company. Deflecting government mind-control rays for 50 years.

Well Well Well. Surprise-Surprise!

Seems as if Republican lawmakers in D.C. are now going after the Voting Rights Act and are trying to ban bilingual ballots and poll interpreters.

God Bless America and Americans who speak English-only!

Source?

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