US National Anthem

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I will post more after i learn it in spanish......dont want to piss off any immigrants illegal or otherwise by not knowing it in spanish

[editor]

I was very surprised to learn today that a working knowledge of English is a requirement for becoming a U.S. citizen. I guess the part that surprised me is that we're not supposed to have an official language, but that requirement kind of makes it de facto English.

[nmainguy]

from my friend John over at "By the Bayou": http://bythebayou.com/

Harmony

The latest "controversy" about immigration is about... what do you think? The right way to secure the border? The low wage jobs often filled by illegal immigrants? The appropriate quota for numbers of immigrants from Mexico and Latin America? Who should have access to the process for becoming a legal resident?

No, none of that silly trivia, it's about a Spanish-language version of "The Start Spangled Banner."

The national anthem that once endured the radical transformation administered by Jimi Hendrix's fuzzed and frantic Stratocaster now faces an artistic dare at least as extreme: translation into Spanish...

Can "The Star-Spangled Banner," and the republic for which it stands, survive? Outrage over what's being called "The Illegal Alien Anthem" is already building in the blogosphere and among conservative commentators.

Timed to debut the week Congress returned to debate immigration reform, with the country riven by the issue, "Nuestro Himno" is intended to be an anthem of solidarity for the movement that has drawn hundreds of thousands of people to march peacefully for immigrant rights in Washington and cities across the country, says Adam Kidron, president of Urban Box Office, the New York-based entertainment company that launched the project.

"It's the one thing everybody has in common, the aspiration to have a relationship with the United States . . . and also to express gratitude and patriotism to the United States for providing the opportunity," says Kidron.

Not surprisingly, this isn't something that many on the right approve of.

But critics including columnist Michelle Malkin, who coined "The Illegal Alien Anthem" nickname, say the rendition crosses a line that Hendrix never stepped over with his instrumental version. Transforming the musical idiom of "The Star-Spangled Banner" is one thing, argue the skeptics, but translating the words sends the opposite message: We are not Americans.

"I'm really appalled. . . . We are not a bilingual nation," said George Taplin, director of the Virginia Chapter of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, part of a national countermovement that emphasizes border control and tougher enforcement, and objects to public funding for day-laborer sites. "When people are talking about becoming a part of this country, they should assimilate to the norm that's already here," Taplin said. "What we're talking about here is a sovereign nation with our ideals and our national identity, and that [anthem]is one of the icons of our nation's identity. I believe it should be in English as it was penned."

Yet, even in English, 61 percent of adults don't know all the words, a recent Harris poll found.

Well, a couple of thoughts. First, we are not a bilingual nation. Nor are we a monolingual nation. English has become the language of our nation in the healthiest possible way: through voluntary adoption over hundreds of years. And as fond as some conservatives are of bringing up the specter of language problems, it's a red herring; every indication shows that immigrants are in fact adopting English as fast or faster than immigrants of the past. The difference is that they are often continuing to use Spanish in their personal lives.

(An interesting side note: "The Star Spangled Banner" became our national anthem in a similar grass roots way. The lyrics were writeen in 1814, and it was commonly sung to the tune of an English drinking song; it didn't become the anthm until 1931, more than a century later.)

Oh, the horror: increasing numbers of bilingual Amerians who comfortably use English in their daily lives but also know Spanish, the language of their parents and of a huge portion of the western hemisphere. Why, they may find themselves well suited to jobs that involve talking to people in the growing markets of Central and South America! Will the republic survive?

While critics sketch a nightmare scenario of a Canada-like land with an anthem sung in two languages, immigrant rights advocates say they agree learning English is essential. Studies of immigrant families suggest the process is inevitable: Eighty-two percent to 90 percent of the children of immigrants prefer English.

"The first step to understanding something is to understand it in the language you understand, and then you can understand it in another language," said Leo Chavez, director of Chicano/Latino Studies at the University of California at Irvine. "What this song represents at this moment is a communal shout, that the dream of America, which is represented by the song, is their dream, too."

Well, that really is the point. I would say that this Spanish-language anthem is a political miscalculation; surely those behind it should have realized that they were tossing raw meat for know-nothings like Michelle Malkin to chew on and excrete as more xenophobic propaganda.

But the intent behind it does not disturb me at all. Here you have a group of people who are saying, in a variety of ways, that the United States is their great hope and they want to be part of it. Yes, they will bring along their own culture and traditions, just as every other immigrant group has. (Funny, I don't see anyone worrying that St. Patrick's Day parades will make us all too Irish, or that drinking beer for Oktoberfest is going to Germanicize the nation, or that too many bagels and Yiddish phrases that have entered common use are turning us into another Israel.)

As for the anthem, well, this is how things happen in the United States: people do what they are moved to do, because they are free to do so; later their efforts are recognized as part of our shared national heritage... or they are not. That applies to national symbols as much as our ever-changing language (which now have more Spanish influences than it did 100 years ago, and probably will have more in 2106), foods, sports, dress, recreation, and so on. Some of the right are terrified by this and want to freeze this moment in time as a definition of what it means to be American. Personally, I think the idea of being American is strong and enduring enough to change and grow with the people who live it.

There are important issues to be sorted out in the immigration debate. This isn't one of them.

Just a little perspective...

[dbigtex56]

Since I put a lot of faith in computers and the internet, here's the National Anthem, auto-translated intoe Spanish:

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I think it should be done in hebrew and aramaic too, since one of my parents is an Israeli immigrant. And lets not forget swahili and chinese and arabic and hindu etc etc....these are the languages of many of the legal immigrants that come to this country, most of which have higher education that would blow many Americans out of the water, but they learn and speak english.........very seldom do you hear them speak thier native tongues outside of thier homes or businesses. The same people that raise thier hand and swear alliegance to the USA and all that it stands for and not run rampant in the streets hailing the flag of thier nations of origin....... AMAZING.

I was told something once when i was a child......." America most likely will not be conquered by an enemy nation...it will most likely implode because the people will become too used to being spoiled and fall into a false enlightenment which breeds arrogance, to the point they have nothing in which they feel is worth standing for. It will mostly start small and build from there......."

[editor]

It's important for context to know that this particular publicity stunt was arranged by a British music producer who saw America's troubles on the news and smelled an opportunity to make a buck and a name for himself.

[musicman]

It's important for context to know that this particular publicity stunt was arranged by a British music producer who saw America's troubles on the news and smelled an opportunity to make a buck and a name for himself.

In the Spanish version, didn't it start off with Jose, instead of O Say?

[johncoby]

What a duffus. Bush stated that the national anthem should be sung in English and immigrants to this nation should speak English.

Hell, Bush ought to learn how to speak English before asking anyone else to do so!

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

What a duffus. Bush stated that the national anthem should be sung in English and immigrants to this nation should speak English.

Hell, Bush ought to learn how to speak English before asking anyone else to do so!

You do realize this is not a dictatorship and Bush will not be in office forever right? This is something that goes WAY beyond political crap and silly political parties.

[RedScare]

Yes, this is one of the important issues confronting America today. Right after, 'Do you think the people on 'Lost' will ever get off the island?', and just before, 'Do we eat too much garlic as a people?'.

[musicman]

Yes, this is one of the important issues confronting America today. Right after, 'Do you think the people on 'Lost' will ever get off the island?'

LOL..sadly this is true for many people.

[DJ V Lawrence]

What a duffus. Bush stated that the national anthem should be sung in English and immigrants to this nation should speak English.

Hell, Bush ought to learn how to speak English before asking anyone else to do so!

You heard the saying...fool me once, shame on....shame on...you? You fool'em, can't get fooled again!...

[midtown 4.2]

Good one! Jose!

For those that have a difficult time understanding why some are offended by the Spanish Star Spangled Banner. Imagine the outrage if a group of individuals decided to insert the U.S. flag into the top corner of another flag . . . say Puerto Rico's. Do you think there might be an uproar about altering their nationalistic symbol? A country's symbol is sacred, and should remain un-molested. Keep the Star Spangled Banner in english.

[cabanaboy]

To paraphrase the original post: "Waaaahhhhhh".

[Parrothead]

Well I'm glad someone said it...geez.

[RedScare]

Thank you for the attempt to explain the outrage of the spanish National Anthem. But, frankly, I am no more offended by this interpretation of the Anthem than I am when a country star warbles it in his best cowboy twang at Talladega, or when Whitney Houston attempts to impress us with the range of her vocal cords, rather than the words to the song, or most famously, when Jimi Hendrix wailed the Anthem on his Stratocaster in protest in the 60s.

The offense taken at this version is offense taken at the mesage, not the words. Just as the drunken throngs at a NASCAR race think that the country rendition is somehow more patriotic because a country singer is perceived as more patriotic, the spanish version is perceived as less patriotic, as the singers and their intended audience is perceived as less patriotic.

Imitation is seen as the sincerest form of flattery...except of course, when one dislikes the imitator. Americans love to disgrace the flag by plastering it on the bumper of their SUV, to get splattered in mud, to wear it as a shirt to sell cheap furniture, or as a headpiece while riding their motorcycles.

This form of abuse of a national symbol is seen as patriotic. But, when the flag is hoisted aloft by demonstrators, especially when the demonstrators are diliked, the "patriotic" rush to the defense of the flag.

I believe this is as it should be. Patriotism is a tool used by government to whip the otherwise skeptical citizenry into line. It encourages blind allegiance to the flag, and therefore the government. Like hearing the first few notes of the school fight song incites an approving roar from the crowd at a football game, so does the waving of the flag or playing the Anthem inspire patriotic citizens to stop questioning the government and pledge allegiance to the flag.

Why should it be this way? If the masses were to question their government, the government would not be able to make the critical decisions necessary to protect the citizens. The government knows what is best, and should be allowed to do it's job without interference from unpatriotic citizens. Having a flag and an Anthem allows the government to achieve this noble objective with a minimum of disruption.

[dbigtex56]

*merged similar threads* - if things seem a bit out of order, my apologies.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Thank you for the attempt to explain the outrage of the spanish National Anthem. But, frankly, I am no more offended by this interpretation of the Anthem than I am when a country star warbles it in his best cowboy twang at Talladega, or when Whitney Houston attempts to impress us with the range of her vocal cords, rather than the words to the song, or most famously, when Jimi Hendrix wailed the Anthem on his Stratocaster in protest in the 60s.

The offense taken at this version is offense taken at the mesage, not the words. Just as the drunken throngs at a NASCAR race think that the country rendition is somehow more patriotic because a country singer is perceived as more patriotic, the spanish version is perceived as less patriotic, as the singers and their intended audience is perceived as less patriotic.

Imitation is seen as the sincerest form of flattery...except of course, when one dislikes the imitator. Americans love to disgrace the flag by plastering it on the bumper of their SUV, to get splattered in mud, to wear it as a shirt to sell cheap furniture, or as a headpiece while riding their motorcycles.

This form of abuse of a national symbol is seen as patriotic. But, when the flag is hoisted aloft by demonstrators, especially when the demonstrators are diliked, the "patriotic" rush to the defense of the flag.

I believe this is as it should be. Patriotism is a tool used by government to whip the otherwise skeptical citizenry into line. It encourages blind allegiance to the flag, and therefore the government. Like hearing the first few notes of the school fight song incites an approving roar from the crowd at a football game, so does the waving of the flag or playing the Anthem inspire patriotic citizens to stop questioning the government and pledge allegiance to the flag.

Why should it be this way? If the masses were to question their government, the government would not be able to make the critical decisions necessary to protect the citizens. The government knows what is best, and should be allowed to do it's job without interference from unpatriotic citizens. Having a flag and an Anthem allows the government to achieve this noble objective with a minimum of disruption.

Are you new?

[editor]

What a duffus. Bush stated that the national anthem should be sung in English and immigrants to this nation should speak English.

Although the United States has no official language, learning English is a requirement of citizenship. You cannot become a citizen without learning English, so the second part of his statement isn't completely off base.

As for the first part, I'm not sure if I agree with that.

Good one! Jose!

For those that have a difficult time understanding why some are offended by the Spanish Star Spangled Banner. Imagine the outrage if a group of individuals decided to insert the U.S. flag into the top corner of another flag . . . say Puerto Rico's. Do you think there might be an uproar about altering their nationalistic symbol? A country's symbol is sacred, and should remain un-molested. Keep the Star Spangled Banner in english.

The flag analogy doesn't get to me. Maybe it should. But I'm having a hard time feeling outraged by this.

I think it might not be a bad idea to have the song translated into a bunch of different languages and broadcast around the world on VOA for everyone to hear and understand.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I think it might not be a bad idea to have the song translated into a bunch of different languages and broadcast around the world on VOA for everyone to hear and understand.

Problem with that is, the American national anthem is not significant to the rest of the world, only to Americans as it very well should be. I dont think it should be translated, period. English is the language of the land, learn it or else..........

[RedScare]

Problem with that is, the American national anthem is not significant to the rest of the world, only to Americans as it very well should be. I dont think it should be translated, period. English is the language of the land, learn it or else..........

Correct.

Patriotism only works if the citizenry feels unique and superior. Translation of the patriotic anthem waters it down and in turn, waters down the militarism of the populace. If the citizenry doesn't feel there is something unique worth killing for, they will rebel against war. Therefore, there is nothing to be gained by allowing the Anthem to be sung in any other language than the predominant language of the patriotic citizens. Otherwise, the citizenry will opt for diplomacy.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Correct.

Patriotism only works if the citizenry feels unique and superior. Translation of the patriotic anthem waters it down and in turn, waters down the militarism of the populace. If the citizenry doesn't feel there is something unique worth killing for, they will rebel against war. Therefore, there is nothing to be gained by allowing the Anthem to be sung in any other language than the predominant language of the patriotic citizens. Otherwise, the citizenry will opt for diplomacy.

When are you announcing your candidacy for the United Nothings, i mean United Nations?

[RedScare]

The day after you announce your candidacy for president under the Nazi Party.

http://www.americannaziparty.com/

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

The day after you announce your candidacy for president under the Nazi Party.

http://www.americannaziparty.com/

Im very happy the GREAT ONES are resting in eternity so they would not have to witness some of the stuff you spew.......

GREAT ONES......

Admiral H G Rickover

General Curtis "Bombs Away" LeMay

General Daniel "Chappy" James

General John J "Black Jack" Pershing

General George S " Old Blood and Guts" Patton

A few great men that believed in the USA and the freedoms many of its spoiled citizens of today take for granted.

As for the American Nazi Party, you are too funny for words.............

[RedScare]

You left out my Dad and my brothers. I've discussed "Patriotism" with them. I've often wondered if Patton, Pershing and Rickover would agree. Being intelligent men, I bet they would agree. Whether they would agree to do away with it however......

[Laurence Simon]

So how does Canada handle their "biligual" national anthem? (French and English)

Every time I've been to a hockey game down here where the locals allowed O Canada to be sun, it was in English. Even when it was Montreal playing the Cubs, which probably should have been a mashup of French and Polish.

[TJones]

First line of the new "spanish" National Anthem...........

"Jo...ooooooo....se' can chu see ?"

[MexAmerican_Moose]

its not like the Spanish version is going to be adopted by the American Government as a new national anthem, let them sing whatever it is they want to sing. I'm an American-Mexican and i prefer English over Spanish but they have their unalienable right to freedom of speech and to sing whatever the hell they want. just my opinion.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

So how does Canada handle their "biligual" national anthem? (French and English)

Every time I've been to a hockey game down here where the locals allowed O Canada to be sun, it was in English. Even when it was Montreal playing the Cubs, which probably should have been a mashup of French and Polish.

Canada, our neighbor to the north..........i will need a shovel for that one

its not like the Spanish version is going to be adopted by the American Government as a new national anthem, let them sing whatever it is they want to sing. I'm an American-Mexican and i prefer English over Spanish but they have their unalienable right to freedom of speech and to sing whatever the hell they want. just my opinion.

What?!?!?!?!

[RedScare]

John Seceda sings the National Anthem

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/05/02/nation...bush-inaugural/

"On Friday, President Bush blasted the idea of singing the Star Spangled Banner in Spanish. But Bush