Religion versus Science

[editor]

For as long as I can remember, I've never had a problem with science or religion. But lately as the debate over Intelligent Design has gained headlines, I've noticed that more and more of the people I work with are very polarized on the issue.

For me, the two always worked well together. But that's not true for everyone. It appears that a lot of people believe that one exists without the other.

Today I was listening to the CBC's excellent radio program Quirks and Quarks. They had a segment interviewing someone with the Vatican's astronomical observatory in Arizona. I think he did as good a job explaining why science and religion are not at odds as anyone.

Here's the interview in MP3 format.

Here's the interview in OGG format.

It's really good stuff.

[nmm]

i never undestood the battle between science and religion. in our culture, science was inclusive of religion as the signs of God's existence.

any atheists care to explain why science and religion dont mix? or the argument as to why there is no God?

[sevfiv]

from the beginning until the end, there will always be the human need for answers to the scientifically inexplicable - that's where religion comes in

[ssullivan]

I've never really understood the battle between religion and science either. I've never had any problem reconciling the two. But I also did not grow up in a fundamentalist tradition where people are told there's only one true way and everything that doesn't fit a narrow little world view must be assumed to be wrong. I grew up in a religious setting that encouraged critical thinking and coming to your own conclusions. But unfortunately for our society it seems that the majority of people want the easy way out -- they want to be told what to believe. And then when something goes against what some preacher told them, rather that logically looking at all sides of the issue, they assume that it must be wrong, because Pastor So and So told them it was.

[Highway6]

Did y'all catch House last night..

It involved healing a faith-healer.. and there was this ongoing tally on the inkboard..

House ultimately outscored God 4-3 I believe.

[RedScare]

any atheists care to explain why science and religion dont mix? or the argument as to why there is no God?

Why would an atheist explain that? Atheists and agnostics think they mix perfectly. It is the (some) religious who seem to have a problem with it. When I was raised Catholic, the nuns had no problem with science or evolution. It was God's plan to them. Now, as an agnostic, I do not believe any differently. I only think this is a problem to those who have a misconception as to what their God is. Some people seem to think their God is as ignorant about science as they are.

[westguy]

i never undestood the battle between science and religion. in our culture, science was inclusive of religion as the signs of God's existence.

any atheists care to explain why science and religion dont mix? or the argument as to why there is no God?

It would probably be better to ask this of an evangelical. There are plenty who not only repudiate evolution, but also insist that the world is only 6000 years old. If Tom DeLay (whose district includes the Johnson Space Center) remained we might've gotten a chance to see an age-old science-religion battle.

[bachanon]

there is an informative book by dr. hugh ross called "creation and time". he discusses origins of the rift between science and religion as well as disects the old testament terminology for "days".

it seems that the use of "the morning and the evening were the first day" in genesis is not a literal translation or a common use of the word "day" for that period in history. the writer, moses, had no concept of eons or eras of time. a more literal interpretation, with our understanding of the universe and language at the time, is more likely....."this is the beginning and end of an era", or a large piece of time.

it does not go unnoticed that the order in which moses discusses each "day" in genesis is in the exact order necessary for each of the earth's systems to be able to support the next. for instance, "let there be light"... light and heat from the sun are necessary before precipitation and evaporation can occur, water cycles are necessary for organic life, and so on. the order in which evolution supposes that life, the earths systems that sustain life, came about is the same order moses laid out in genesis. moses wasn't a scientist.

long creation "days" are pivotal in one's view of how we came to be within a christian context.

[Montrose1100]

Science to me has never mixed with Religion. I'm surprised people can think they do. Perhaps it has to do with a generation gap, or maybe just the way we all think, and/or were taught?

Religion is a means of trying to explain things, a teaching, and unviersal code of conduct. I look back to the old Greek Gods, and how things were proven not true. Such as Mount Olympus. Religion is old, it was a law structure, to make sure we all weren't running around doing what we wanted. "If you do this (bad thing), you'll burn in hell" Well, in superstious times, I wouldn't want to be condemed to that if I killed someone, or whatever. When the first few intellegent people began forming in the world (when we started grouping together, farming, UR, our first cities, etc.) someone had a dream, or a nightmare.

Science is a way of proving fact, from fiction (religion). Like Newton's laws, of gravity, and everything else that dared to defy to vatican and such. As time progresses, and we discovery these new truths, religion seems obsolite. But don't get me wrong, its nice to have something to believe in..

I hope I explained that good, if not, I apologize.

[Heights2Bastrop]

While I do believe there is a battle between Religion and Science, I believe the focus should be on the battle between Religion and Government. In the past, Religion was the law, and that meant Religion was about power. Uncountable horrible acts have been done in the name of Religion over the centuries in order to gain or retain power.

While not as horrendous as in the past, there is still the tendency to base certain law on religion. Gay marriage, abortion and, of course, prayer in schools are prime examples.

I find it ironic, and greatly hypocritical of the Catholic Church that it perceives it is under attack today by

[Gary]

there is an informative book by dr. hugh ross called "creation and time". he discusses origins of the rift between science and religion as well as disects the old testament terminology for "days".

it seems that the use of "the morning and the evening were the first day" in genesis is not a literal translation or a common use of the word "day" for that period in history. the writer, moses, had no concept of eons or eras of time. a more literal interpretation, with our understanding of the universe and language at the time, is more likely....."this is the beginning and end of an era", or a large piece of time.

it does not go unnoticed that the order in which moses discusses each "day" in genesis is in the exact order necessary for each of the earth's systems to be able to support the next. for instance, "let there be light"... light and heat from the sun are necessary before precipitation and evaporation can occur, water cycles are necessary for organic life, and so on. the order in which evolution supposes that life, the earths systems that sustain life, came about is the same order moses laid out in genesis. moses wasn't a scientist.

long creation "days" are pivotal in one's view of how we came to be within a christian context.

Hugh Ross is an Astro Physicist who was a lethal (very good) agnostic in his debates. As he continued to disprove the religions of the world, he became a Christian, but not in the TBN sense.

I've listened to him quite a bit, and find his explanations regarding this issue very informative. I've listened to his debates with the 6000 year nut cases and he has systematically blow there doors.

[bachanon]

Dr. Hugh Ross' Website

as a side note, c. s. lewis also became a christian after studying the world's religions and attempting to disprove them.

[MarthaG]

Here is the thing I have problems with when it comes to science vs religion.

In science we are taught that earth has been here for BILLIONS of years. There are the ice ages, which the first is beleived to have been over 2 billion years ago. The dinosaurs were on earth for 165 million years and became extinct 65 million years ago. Then there is the stone age that was 2 million years ago.

So when were Adam and Eve created? How much time between the creation of earth to the creation of man? How much time from creation of man to the time of Moses? I understand the timeline for science and the timeline for religion are never going to match up, but these are the questions that come to my mind.

[bachanon]

there is an informative book by dr. hugh ross called "creation and time". he discusses origins of the rift between science and religion as well as disects the old testament terminology for "days".

it seems that the use of "the morning and the evening were the first day" in genesis is not a literal translation or a common use of the word "day" for that period in history. the writer, moses, had no concept of eons or eras of time. a more literal interpretation, with our understanding of the universe and language at the time, is more likely....."this is the beginning and end of an era", or a large piece of time.

it does not go unnoticed that the order in which moses discusses each "day" in genesis is in the exact order necessary for each of the earth's systems to be able to support the next. for instance, "let there be light"... light and heat from the sun are necessary before precipitation and evaporation can occur, water cycles are necessary for organic life, and so on. the order in which evolution supposes that life, the earths systems that sustain life, came about is the same order moses laid out in genesis. moses wasn't a scientist.

long creation "days" are pivotal in one's view of how we came to be within a christian context.

the geological record along with astro physics are giving us greater details in the amount of time that things have been around.

also, scripture states that "in the beginning, the earth was without form and void". the earth exists before the creation "days" begin. there are other scriptures i'm not familiar with that mention a time before mankind. the bible never states that the universe, or our solar system, began on the first day of creation. dr. ross explains the context of genesis 1:1 by carefully examining the translations it has come through in order to verify the intended meaning.

[editor]

Here is the thing I have problems with when it comes to science vs religion.

In science we are taught that earth has been here for BILLIONS of years. There are the ice ages, which the first is beleived to have been over 2 billion years ago. The dinosaurs were on earth for 165 million years and became extinct 65 million years ago. Then there is the stone age that was 2 million years ago.

So when were Adam and Eve created? How much time between the creation of earth to the creation of man? How much time from creation of man to the time of Moses? I understand the timeline for science and the timeline for religion are never going to match up, but these are the questions that come to my mind.

This is a problem the modern church dealt with a long time ago. These are not two incongruous propositions. You simply have to realize that an hour to God and an hour to man may not be the same thing. Like dog years. Think of them at God years.

[Montrose1100]

This is a problem the modern church dealt with a long time ago. These are not two incongruous propositions. You simply have to realize that an hour to God and an hour to man may not be the same thing. Like dog years. Think of them at God years.

So when god created the earth in 7 days, its really not 7 days as in a normal week? I never thought of it like that, or heard the "God Years" theory. Very thought provoking, perhaps there is more to words in the bible then previous percepted?

[RedScare]

This is a problem the modern church dealt with a long time ago. These are not two incongruous propositions. You simply have to realize that an hour to God and an hour to man may not be the same thing. Like dog years. Think of them at God years.

So, you're saying it actually took 49 days? Or, is that what my dog is saying?

[Montrose1100]

So, you're saying it actually took 49 days? Or, is that what my dog is saying?

Maybe the editor was "bongested" at the time of posting? Or are you still "bongested" from the katy freeway bottleneck effect?

[RedScare]

Maybe the editor was "bongested" at the time of posting? Or are you still "bongested" from the katy freeway bottleneck effect?

I believe it is the latter.

[Gary]

So when god created the earth in 7 days, its really not 7 days as in a normal week? I never thought of it like that, or heard the "God Years" theory. Very thought provoking, perhaps there is more to words in the bible then previous percepted?

Genesis 1:1-5 is very debateable. I personally believe from my studies that a day was meant to be litteral. Genesis 1:4 & 5 state: And God saw the light and saw that it was good. God then divided the light from the darkness. God then called the light day and the darkness night, and the evening and the morning were the first day.

To me it sounds that this is obviously litteral, thus meaning that the creation period was 6 litteral days.

[bachanon]

literally?

[Gary]

literally?

I'm so sorry to inconvenience you with my misspelling. I'll try to spell check next time.

[bachanon]

actually, i was thinking of a mad tv skit that overuses the word "literally". my bad. bad joke. my intent was not to correct your spelling. sorry.

[Gary]

actually, i was thinking of a mad tv skit that overuses the word "literally". my bad. bad joke. my intent was not to correct your spelling. sorry.

Oh man, I'm sorry. I guess I'm a little on edge right now, just got in a fight witha bandmate.

[wendyps]

So when god created the earth in 7 days, its really not 7 days as in a normal week? I never thought of it like that, or heard the "God Years" theory. Very thought provoking, perhaps there is more to words in the bible then previous percepted?

The way I look at it is that God created the UNIVERSE right (not just the Earth)? Well, I'm fairly certain that the entire universe is not bound to our 24/365 rotation...so, what is a day? Genesis doesn't say how God created, just that he did. Now, if God chose to create the universe with a "Big Bang"...

[sevfiv]

who knows, one day we may have it all figured out - of course, there may still be some that believe that helios (along with pyrois, eos, aethon, and phlegon) still traverses across the sky

[Gary]

The way I look at it is that God created the UNIVERSE right (not just the Earth)? Well, I'm fairly certain that the entire universe is not bound to our 24/365 rotation...so, what is a day? Genesis doesn't say how God created, just that he did. Now, if God chose to create the universe with a "Big Bang"...

Wendy, according to the Bible, the universe was already in existance before the Earth was made into what we see now. The Earth was in existance before the Genesis creation but was encompassed by water.

[bachanon]

also, astro physicists have found, based on the movement of objects in space and the rate of light speed, that the universe must have had a "big bang", a specific beginning. i don't remember any specifics though. i'm looking for the book for a friend and will share more when i come across it again. the newer telescopes we have, along with super computers, are allowing us to crunch numbers like never before. there are big, new discoveries about the universe we live in coming out on a regular basis.

[dbigtex56]

"In the beginning there was nothing. God said, 'Let there be light!' And there was light. There was still nothing, but you could see it a whole lot better."

- Ellen DeGeneres