Hanover Montrose: Multifamily At 3400 Montrose Blvd.

[Urbannizer]

Demolition 2014.05.09 2951-3 Cropped by ThirdCoastRyan on Flickr

[fatesdisastr]

Good point. I'm just used to seeing that happen in Houston. Or maybe not rubble but an empty lot. Like the Prudential building in the med center or the River Cafe lot (Okay that tone is smaller but it's sat empty for so long).

 

I understand what you mean. I think many of us are emotionally used to being let down, or disappointed in the end. I am just glad they have had such urgency (though lacking some safety) in bringing down this building. I hope the urgency continues with the rise as it did the fall.

[Luminare]

Holy Crap! Must I be here to restore optimism in every single thread xD Come on people!

[arche_757]

Holy Crap! Must I be here to restore optimism in every single thread xD Come on people!

 

What?  Restore optimism?  How?  With what?  Why?  Most of the complaints on this thread (of late) have to deal with the seemingly dangerous demolition that we've seen unfold on the last few floors.

 

[Luminare]

I'm talking about throughout lol. Seems some people are getting skittish because projects are getting delayed and that the sky is falling down. Its like some kind of Battered Houston Syndrome xD.

 

In regards to this thread I'm really going to have to make my way down to see this disappearing building. I remember a couple weeks ago I was sitting at the Yogurt place across the street watching them take out the top floor.

[arche_757]

Well, that's Houston development for you.  Some of us have seen this before, only for a large chunk of projects to fall out of the discussion because the economy tanked for various reasons (Enron, 2008 Housing Bubble Recession, Oil Bust of the 1980s et cetera).

[Luminare]

Of course I completely understand that. I've lived enough of my short life already to know that sometimes....things just don't pan out like you thought they might. But with a city so obsessed with the future and we are known as a city with a strong "can do" attitude I think its about time we get back to that. Not just Houston, but as a nation in general. I understand why people are kinda jaded and hesitant to really buy into whats going on, but Houston has enormous potential as a city and its time to really run with it. Lots of obstacles and struggles ahead, but Rome wasn't built in a day and Houston certainly will not either.

[arche_757]

And here we have a typical Houston vision:  Old building with character (not without flaws) torn down to make way for boring/mundane 30 something residential tower when there is actually a bigger lot across the street (in two directions) that would have allowed the new tower without the loss of a potentially eclectic highrise to survive.  Now, its gone, I've made my peace - so to speak - so the only thing left is to see what this new building will be.  I'll be surprised if its anything greater than the recently built tower at Memorial and Studemont.  Very surprised.

[Luminare]

I actually just finished a good book called "Houston: Lost and Unbuilt". Was a fascinating read about our lost architectural heritage. Looking into the future can sometimes give citizens tunnel vision and we lose valuable pieces of our past. Houston has an awful record of this, but it is improving. The hardest thing is determining what constitutes "historical", or old buildings that are "good" architecturally". I think we all know here just because a building is old doesn't mean that its "historical". Its one big fat gray line :/

[arche_757]

Historic and Historical are also different.  My point was - typical in Houston we tear down something when the land that could have been used for said new building was/is available across the street (perhaps for more money) but still available.

 

I won't get into it about how valuable 3400 Montrose was, but it was at least a building with some character and could have been used in interesting ways if the right developer with the right money and idea came along at the right time.  Just unfortunate that so many of our buildings don't end up with the right developer or right time.

[Ross]

Historic and Historical are also different.  My point was - typical in Houston we tear down something when the land that could have been used for said new building was/is available across the street (perhaps for more money) but still available.

 

I won't get into it about how valuable 3400 Montrose was, but it was at least a building with some character and could have been used in interesting ways if the right developer with the right money and idea came along at the right time.  Just unfortunate that so many of our buildings don't end up with the right developer or right time.

There probably isn't a developer around who is willing to risk as much money as the old building would have required to renovate and bring up to code. Sometimes, buildings just don't work any longer.

[j_cuevas713]

In what way?

Isn't it already slated for redevelopment but the present leases need to run out?

I don't know, is it? If it is, that's awesome! Any info on this, because any redevelopment to that shopping center will bring life back to that part of Montrose

[j_cuevas713]

To be honest, what would the point be for them to pay the demo crew extra for bringing it down quickly if they wanted to let the rubble sit there for a few years?

I think to defend Jax, its just our Htown mentality... I don't think Jax is being negative in any way... I personally believe construction will start immediately... but we have been let done plenty in this city, that I guess to see so much happening all at once is kind of overwhelming to some degree

[Timoric]

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[Jax]

I think to defend Jax, its just our Htown mentality... I don't think Jax is being negative in any way... I personally believe construction will start immediately... but we have been let done plenty in this city, that I guess to see so much happening all at once is kind of overwhelming to some degree

 

Before I found HAIF, I found J-A-X photos of Houston, they actually got me interested in Houston again over about a 2 year period, thanks for all those, they are great!

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/j-a-x/

Thanks! Glad to know you like them!

[H-Town Man]

I won't get into it about how valuable 3400 Montrose was, but it was at least a building with some character and could have been used in interesting ways if the right developer with the right money and idea came along at the right time.  Just unfortunate that so many of our buildings don't end up with the right developer or right time.

 

Pretty high truth per word ratio in this post. I won't blame the developers (always dangerous on here) as much as the typical buyers, who care mainly that wherever they live is new and trendy, and frown at something old, unusual, or with "insufficient ceiling heights." In a city like Vienna you have older apartment buildings that are really kept up and look good, but you also have a customer base that appreciates something other than just new, new, new.

 

That said, if there were an emerging market of buyers who think outside the box, it may be the case that Houston developers are less likely than those in other cities to see that trend and try to answer it. I'm not sure about that, though.

 

[swtsig]

Pretty high truth per word ratio in this post. I won't blame the developers (always dangerous on here) as much as the typical buyers, who care mainly that wherever they live is new and trendy, and frown at something old, unusual, or with "insufficient ceiling heights." In a city like Vienna you have older apartment buildings that are really kept up and look good, but you also have a customer base that appreciates something other than just new, new, new.

That said, if there were an emerging market of buyers who think outside the box, it may be the case that Houston developers are less likely than those in other cities to see that trend and try to answer it. I'm not sure about that, though.

You just compared Houston to Vienna. Think about that for a second.

FYI this building was on and off the market for almost ten years. It had its chances.

[H-Town Man]

You just compared Houston to Vienna. Think about that for a second.

FYI this building was on and off the market for almost ten years. It had its chances.

 

I actually contrasted Houston with Vienna. But - is there a reason why people in Houston shouldn't be able to appreciate a building like people in Vienna? We've given the world much more great modern architecture than they have over the past 50 years or so.

 

[fernz]

I actually contrasted Houston with Vienna. But - is there a reason why people in Houston shouldn't be able to appreciate a building like people in Vienna? We've given the world much more great modern architecture than they have over the past 50 years or so.

I think the difference is the quality and significance of historical buildings in Vienna vs Houston. I know a lot of people in this forum liked the old building at 3400 Montrose, but the reality is that, from an architectural perspective, the building was relatively insignificant. Not to say there aren't significant buildings in Houston that do get demolished - but that's an off topic conversation that I know must be in some more relevant thread.

[H-Town Man]

I think the difference is the quality and significance of historical buildings in Vienna vs Houston. I know a lot of people in this forum liked the old building at 3400 Montrose, but the reality is that, from an architectural perspective, the building was relatively insignificant. Not to say there aren't significant buildings in Houston that do get demolished - but that's an off topic conversation that I know must be in some more relevant thread.

You are right, Vienna has much more in the realm of historic buildings, but the point I was making was about how older apartment buildings are treated - mid century buildings. And I don't think this building was insignificant. I think it was overlooked because people operate on an old/new dichotomy, and once this building fell into neglect, nobody could see the potential. Also because we've begun to finally see pre-1930 buildings as historic (it took us about thirty years longer than the rest of the world), but we still don't see midcentury buildings this way.

[Metro West]

Houston > Vienna

[fernz]

Houston > Vienna

Yes, Houston is larger than Vienna.

[KinkaidAlum]

There is a market for folks wanting to live in something more unique, with charm, with character, with age. The problem is, those places are rapidly disappearing, especially in highly sought after places inside the loop. While I didn't love this building, it, along with the Houston Club, could have made for some interesting apartments in great locations that would have KEPT some much needed character that adds to the overall vitality and gives one a sense of place. 

 

The biggest problem is there are zero incentives for developers to restore and renovate existing buildings whereas we bend over backwards for landing something "new." Heck, City Council is discussing multi-million dollar tax incentives to bring TrendMaker Homes to the Clear Lake area today. It's on the agenda. Seriously.

[Houston19514]

There is a market for folks wanting to live in something more unique, with charm, with character, with age. The problem is, those places are rapidly disappearing, especially in highly sought after places inside the loop. While I didn't love this building, it, along with the Houston Club, could have made for some interesting apartments in great locations that would have KEPT some much needed character that adds to the overall vitality and gives one a sense of place. 

 

The biggest problem is there are zero incentives for developers to restore and renovate existing buildings whereas we bend over backwards for landing something "new." Heck, City Council is discussing multi-million dollar tax incentives to bring TrendMaker Homes to the Clear Lake area today. It's on the agenda. Seriously.

 

Existing  buildings are eligible for the downtown living incentives just as much as new buildings.  See, for example, the renovation of the old Texaco building.   And, I think there are some other incentives available for developers to restore and renovate existing buildings.  There are historic site tax exemptions and adjustments to building codes (I believe both Houston and Harris County).  Of course there are the federal historic rehabilitation tax credits.

[fernz]

There is a market for folks wanting to live in something more unique, with charm, with character, with age. The problem is, those places are rapidly disappearing, especially in highly sought after places inside the loop. While I didn't love this building, it, along with the Houston Club, could have made for some interesting apartments in great locations that would have KEPT some much needed character that adds to the overall vitality and gives one a sense of place.

The biggest problem is there are zero incentives for developers to restore and renovate existing buildings whereas we bend over backwards for landing something "new." Heck, City Council is discussing multi-million dollar tax incentives to bring TrendMaker Homes to the Clear Lake area today. It's on the agenda. Seriously.

Ask the developers of the Commerce Towers how much demand there turned out to be for those units in a remodeled building...not enough to pay the bills.

[monarch]

the problem with leasing as per commerce towers, is that management wanted far too much money for them per month.  this of course shall be in lieu of the VERY SMALL SQUARE FOOTAGE being available.  please trust me upon this!

 

Ask the developers of the Commerce Towers how much demand there turned out to be for those units in a remodeled building...not enough to pay the bills.

 

[H-Town Man]

Ask the developers of the Commerce Towers how much demand there turned out to be for those units in a remodeled building...not enough to pay the bills.

 

The problem was compounded by someone building a brightly lit parking garage across the street.  A tough thing to stomach for any luxury residential building.

[fernz]

the problem with leasing as per commerce towers, is that management wanted far too much money for them per month. this of course shall be in lieu of the VERY SMALL SQUARE FOOTAGE being available. please trust me upon this!

If they could've asked for less money in order to sell, they would have. They were asking for what they needed to ask in order to make the returns owed to their equity partners and their lenders.

The problem with renovating a building is that there are many unknows, and the likelihood of going over budget and being delayed (which is worse from the financial point of view than being over budget) are greater. If you demo the building, those risks are greatly reduced.

If you have a really unique structure like the Rice hotel or the Texaco building, these risks are balanced with the expected demand of people wanting to live in such unique buildings. But for your average old building, the risks aren't worth it - purely speaking from a financial point of view.

[arche_757]

If you have a really unique structure like the Rice hotel or the Texaco building, these risks are balanced with the expected demand of people wanting to live in such unique buildings. But for your average old building, the risks aren't worth it - purely speaking from a financial point of view.

Yet this is done all over the country - except in Houston.  Seems to be the norm to salvage/save old structures rather than demolish them, the exception is Houston.  I think part of that problem comes from incompetance in the design community here (Houston).  Not trying to personally insult, but I've found that firms in Houston are generally clueless on proper historical restoration.  There are a few, but in general those companies are smaller and hence get left out in the cold for larger projects and jobs.  I'm not speaking to any particular project - again just generalizing.

 

And while I won't say I'm an expert, my firm does specialize in Historical Preservation and we're based in Galveston.  Most of the GC's we work with (down here) are experienced with this sort of specialized construction, same with the consulting engineers.

[Ross]

In other parts of the country, the developers aren't given a choice, they are forced to renovate buildings we would not consider here, because they are not allowed to tear them down. Thus, you get semi-crappy apartments that are expensive.