NRG Park Mixed-Use Development

[bookey23]

Very interesting. When they mention the new areas around SoFi and Jerry World, it reminds you that there's no good reason for the area around NRG to be such a barren wasteland. Especially now that Helix Park is going to be a 5 minute drive away from the stadium, it's not like NRG is in the middle of nowhere.

Glad to hear the powers that be are thinking about this and want to put forth a plan to improve the area. I'm eager to see the plan once they put it together.

[nate4l1f3]

2 hours ago, bookey23 said:

Very interesting. When they mention the new areas around SoFi and Jerry World, it reminds you that there's no good reason for the area around NRG to be such a barren wasteland. Especially now that Helix Park is going to be a 5 minute drive away from the stadium, it's not like NRG is in the middle of nowhere.

Glad to hear the powers that be are thinking about this and want to put forth a plan to improve the area. I'm eager to see the plan once they put it together.

 

2 hours ago, bookey23 said:

Very interesting. When they mention the new areas around SoFi and Jerry World, it reminds you that there's no good reason for the area around NRG to be such a barren wasteland. Especially now that Helix Park is going to be a 5 minute drive away from the stadium, it's not like NRG is in the middle of nowhere.

Glad to hear the powers that be are thinking about this and want to put forth a plan to improve the area. I'm eager to see the plan once they put it together.

Can anyone post the article?

[nate4l1f3]

2 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

 

Can anyone post the article?

NM I got it. 

[tigereye]

10 hours ago, Amlaham said:

NRG Park CEO notes there will be changes coming to the complex! 

https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news/commercial-real-estate/houstons-nrg-park-area-is-underdeveloped-its-leader-is-ready-to-do-something-about-it-118261

The best option really is turning the Astrodome into its own mixed use development project. Besides, it would be a blight to have it standing abandoned next to NRG Stadium during the World Cup, the most global high profile event this city has ever hosted in its entire history. I’ve always envisioned to walls of the Dome as the hotel component with balconies facing inside and out, like the Marriott City Centre Hotel at Rogers Centre (formerly Toronto SkyDome). The floor could be a flex space that could be used for a variety of uses:

• Column free convention space for OTC

• Events during Rodeo Houston
• Pregame festivities for Texans and other events like the Super Bowl, Final Four, or WrestleMania) 

• Climate controlled music festivals 

• Non-event days, it becomes a park. 
 

Option B: If the powers in charge insist on the Dome becoming added convention space only, mixed use development should go in the Orange lot linking MetroRail to the Dome, NRG Stadium and NRG Arena. Think of it as a grand entrance for pedestrians commuting via MetroRail, part of the target audience they seek to build bars and restaurants for in the first place. It also makes the walk from the rail platform to the venues a better experience. I would also like to expand the commuting options by building an on site, dedicated transit center for Park & Ride service, preferably next to (or near) the MetroRail platform. Think of it as a permanent multimodal transit station that could by used by the NRG Park and the neighborhood/city. I’d also like a fancy faux train shed canopy like at Cypress P&R haha. Make it look and appear safe so it encourages use that  might potential create more customers for the mixed use developments they seek to build. 

In a perfect world, we get both a renovated Astrodome mixed use hotel development with the grand entrance and multimodal transit center in the Orange lots. Maybe one day they actually read or hear this. 

 

[Houston19514]

23 hours ago, steve1363 said:

Disappointingly, and conspicuously, no mention of how the Astrodome could contribute to development of the area.   😒

I would read nothing in to that.  It listed the Astrodome along with the other facilities at NRG Park, with no particular mention of how any of them could contribute. This is in the VERY early stages of discussions.

[Highrise Tower]

Bumped to Going Up!

I wonder if this can start before the HLSR lease ends? I believe the whole campus is 350-acres.  They can build something without disturbing the Rodeo Grounds.

Has a master plan even been created yet? Just how early in the project are we?

[004n063]

On 3/28/2023 at 1:26 PM, bookey23 said:

there's no good reason for the area around NRG to be such a barren wasteland. Especially now that Helix Park is going to be a 5 minute drive away from the stadium, it's not like NRG is in the middle of nowhere.

Where's your sense of optimism??

[cougarpad]

The idea that a non profit organization and a sports franchise in the Texans who stadium was paid for by tax revenue along with the taxes paid on the Dome, neither the Houston Rodeo nor the Texas should get a say over what happens to the Dome. The Dome is owned by the Tax payers and not those organizations. For far too long we have let the Dome sit there looking pitiful because have let powers have say who shouldn't have a powerful say in the matter. The Dome should of been converted into a hotel, or at least have the floor raised for underground parking with convention space on ground floor years ago. 

[mattyt36]

3 minutes ago, cougarpad said:

The idea that a non profit organization and a sports franchise in the Texans who stadium was paid for by tax revenue along with the taxes paid on the Dome, neither the Houston Rodeo nor the Texas should get a say over what happens to the Dome. The Dome is owned by the Tax payers and not those organizations. For far too long we have let the Dome sit there looking pitiful because have let powers have say who shouldn't have a powerful say in the matter. The Dome should of been converted into a hotel, or at least have the floor raised for underground parking with convention space on ground floor years ago. 

Well, the voters technically had their say on the matter and said no thanks.  Not sure how you can blame the Rodeo or the Texans for that one.

Houston voters don't approve referendum to save Astrodome (espn.com)

Hidalgo torpedoed the parking garage proposal--hopefully this planning effort will result in a new concept for the Astrodome that can be packaged into the new leases.

Note the timeframe for all of these improvements per the article is . . . 2032!

[Houston19514]

58 minutes ago, cougarpad said:

The idea that a non profit organization and a sports franchise in the Texans who stadium was paid for by tax revenue along with the taxes paid on the Dome, neither the Houston Rodeo nor the Texas should get a say over what happens to the Dome. The Dome is owned by the Tax payers and not those organizations. For far too long we have let the Dome sit there looking pitiful because have let powers have say who shouldn't have a powerful say in the matter. The Dome should of been converted into a hotel, or at least have the floor raised for underground parking with convention space on ground floor years ago. 

NRG Stadium was paid for with bonds.  The bonds are backed by (and paid for) with a combination of revenue streams:  1.  Houston Rodeo lease payments.  2. Houston Texans lease payments.  3. Hotel Occupancy Taxes  and 4.  Taxes on Rental cars and 5. a surtax on every Rodeo and Texans ticket.  Both NRG Arena and NRG Center were paid for in similar fashion.  Both the Rodeo and the Texans have contractual rights to the entire complex, for which they pay a lot of money.

Edited March 31 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

Hopefully we've come so far since 2013, with tangible proof of what investment in public spaces can do for the City, that an imaginative and inventive concept to repurpose the Astrodome will be a slam dunk for voter approval.  I know there was a lot of blowback against Lina for killing the most recent (IMO totally blah) garage concept, but maybe history will prove it a blessing.

[Highrise Tower]

The area once occupied as Pierce Junction is sure taking shape.  You have these large scale opportunities nearby:

University of Texas property on Holmes Road: 307-acres.

NRG Park Mixed-Use: 350-acres.

TMC BioPort: 500-acres.

There are also several 20 to 50 acre parcels for sale in the TMC area as well.

[emmanume]

https://twitter.com/emmanume/status/1633154154267922432?s=46&t=8G68HPZIZnj4GJR7xJwCUg

Would be so amazing to have a dense city built out there. I was in Dallas in victory park and it’s so cool how the AA Center is now surrounded by high rises, shops and the trailhead for a world class greenway

[mfastx]

I agree, so much wasted space. Build a few big parking garages and put some mixed use down there! 

[HoustonBoy]

Houston is due for two casinos if the state passes the sports betting and casino bill. One of them should either go into the Astrodome or right next to it. The second should be downtown or in Galveston in my opinion.

[EllenOlenska]

Make the Dome a giant roulette wheel. 

[freundb]

On 3/31/2023 at 9:54 PM, emmanume said:

https://twitter.com/emmanume/status/1633154154267922432?s=46&t=8G68HPZIZnj4GJR7xJwCUg

Would be so amazing to have a dense city built out there. I was in Dallas in victory park and it’s so cool how the AA Center is now surrounded by high rises, shops and the trailhead for a world class greenway

Where would the funds come from? I feel like the lots would cost too much to buy and develop, and who would want to live there? Who would want to visit? The 12 Texans fans sure aren't enough to make it worthwhile. Would they ditch the lots for the rodeo? I don't see it as a popular idea, at least right now, but I'm wrong about a lot

[thatguysly]

AAC is adjacent to downtown. This would be like if they developed Midtown here around a stadium. I've been to that area in Dallas and it is always dead. Lot's of density but no real vibe. And downtown Dallas is worse that Houston for nightlife. The Deep Ellum side is nice even if quickly gentrifying. I remember that while area used to be a wasteland of parking lots and now it is filling in nice there too.

[X.R.]

On 3/28/2023 at 12:23 PM, steve1363 said:

Disappointingly, and conspicuously, no mention of how the Astrodome could contribute to development of the area.   😒

Because the whispers on the street is because no one wants to foot the bill for redevelopment, its contribution will be that it won't exist anymore. 

Edit: The issue is that redevelopment is supposedly extremely expensive, where asbestos abatement and destruction is cheaper. The issue is bringing it down without messing up all the other buildings. They are in a pickle.

Edited April 3 by X.R.

[nate4l1f3]

On 3/28/2023 at 11:28 AM, Amlaham said:

NRG Park CEO notes there will be changes coming to the complex! 

https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news/commercial-real-estate/houstons-nrg-park-area-is-underdeveloped-its-leader-is-ready-to-do-something-about-it-118261

I wonder if he’s talking specifically about the parking lots around the stadium or just the NRG area in general? 

[houstontexasjack]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:17 AM, X.R. said:

Because the whispers on the street is because no one wants to foot the bill for redevelopment, its contribution will be that it won't exist anymore. 

Edit: The issue is that redevelopment is supposedly extremely expensive, where asbestos abatement and destruction is cheaper. The issue is bringing it down without messing up all the other buildings. They are in a pickle.

It’s time to let the Astrodome go. Have a miniature playground of it in the middle of a park space. 

[Amlaham]

2 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

I wonder if he’s talking specifically about the parking lots around the stadium or just the NRG area in general? 

I think he's talking about developing the area of the park itself, and the only area thats developable is the parking lots. 

[Houston19514]

18 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

I wonder if he’s talking specifically about the parking lots around the stadium or just the NRG area in general? 

He's not talking "specifically" about anything. ;-)  He's really just talking about starting to talk. This is in the VERY early stages.  Actually, the pre-very early stages.  Talking about getting together to talk about what we can do with the complex.

[004n063]

11 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

He's not talking "specifically" about anything. ;-)  He's really just talking about starting to talk. This is in the VERY early stages.  Actually, the pre-very early stages.  Talking about getting together to talk about what we can do with the complex.

Guys...I think we need to talk about how we talk about talking about talking.

[nate4l1f3]

On 4/8/2023 at 10:50 AM, Houston19514 said:

He's not talking "specifically" about anything. ;-)  He's really just talking about starting to talk. This is in the VERY early stages.  Actually, the pre-very early stages.  Talking about getting together to talk about what we can do with the complex.

. bummer. Was hoping the 2026 World Cup was in play. 

[Highrise Tower]

Not involved with the future mixed-use but there is about to be a bridge going from a surface lot to the stadium. 

The bridge will be built at 8400 Kirby Drive.

 

[ChannelTwoNews]

On upgrades to existing facilities...

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2023/07/19/nrg-park-upgrades-financing-jci.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_27&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

"Walsh ultimately turned to Johnson Controls International, the building technology and services company that was managing NRG Park’s chillers and boilers. Not only could JCI provide the necessary facility upgrades, but it would also finance the $34 million project while guaranteeing cost savings of $54 million across the next 20 years. The partnership would effectively cover upgrade expenses and the cost of capital while ultimately leaving Harris County, which owns NRG Park, with a financial surplus. It blew away any competing financing options."

[Houston19514]

Project Details
Project No:	23040706
Date :	2023/05/23 00:00:00
USE :	TEMPORARY PEDESTRIAN BRIDGES/HOUSTON TEX
Owner/Occupant :	*HOUSTON TEXANS
Job Address :	8400 KIRBY DR 77054
Valuation :	$ 115,000
Permit Type :	13
FCC Group :	Structures Other than Buildings
Buyer :	BORNHAUSER RICK
Address :	2 NRG PARK 77054
Phone :	(832) 667-2318

[Houston19514]

33 minutes ago, ChannelTwoNews said:

On upgrades to existing facilities...

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2023/07/19/nrg-park-upgrades-financing-jci.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_27&cx_artPos=1#cxrecs_s

"Walsh ultimately turned to Johnson Controls International, the building technology and services company that was managing NRG Park’s chillers and boilers. Not only could JCI provide the necessary facility upgrades, but it would also finance the $34 million project while guaranteeing cost savings of $54 million across the next 20 years. The partnership would effectively cover upgrade expenses and the cost of capital while ultimately leaving Harris County, which owns NRG Park, with a financial surplus. It blew away any competing financing options."

More details, without a paywall:

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2023/07/17/Insiders/finance

[shasta]

1 hour ago, kennyc05 said:

That's a good question 😵‍💫

 

Off topic I see the Spurs want to build a new arena in downtown San Antonio it makes me wonder what we're gonna do with Toyota Center.

I also wonder about NRG Stadium.

I fully expect to start hearing some rumblings about needing a newer stadium in the next decade.

The new stadiums are light years better than what we built in 2000-2002.

Hopefully they will build the new one in Ea-Do so we can have a true sports district.

[kennyc05]

27 minutes ago, shasta said:

I also wonder about NRG Stadium.

I fully expect to start hearing some rumblings about needing a newer stadium in the next decade.

The new stadiums are light years better than what we built in 2000-2002.

Hopefully they will build the new one in Ea-Do so we can have a true sports district.

I honestly think Toyota Center and NRG just needs massive renovations and that should be sufficient. 

[j_cuevas713]

12 minutes ago, kennyc05 said:

I honestly think Toyota Center and NRG just needs massive renovations and that should be sufficient. 

I agree. A simple facade update and maybe some more elements around the building dedicated to the Rockets would be cool. A Rockets village would be nice. 

[shasta]

23 minutes ago, kennyc05 said:

I honestly think Toyota Center and NRG just needs massive renovations and that should be sufficient. 

Th McNairs, who literally run a real estate development company, can develop all of that park lot land around NRG a mixed- use destination but they choose not to. 

[mattyt36]

2 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Yeah I read how they were expecting the arena to spur growth in that neighborhood but it didn't. I wonder if that massive parking lot had anything to do with it instead of building up and around the arena. 

Seems like it had to be way more related to the fact that they already had the coliseum complex there (i.e., they already owned the land), and like us with NRG, they also wanted it also to be used for the Stock Show and required the surrounding buildings.  Are there any examples of arenas in more remote areas spurring any economic development considering there are less than 50 dates a year?  If the local leaders did say that, I'd say they were being entirely disingenuous.

Edited July 21 by mattyt36

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, shasta said:

Th McNairs, who literally run a real estate development company, can develop all of that park lot land around NRG a mixed- use destination but they choose not to. 

Well, they actually cannot.

2 hours ago, shasta said:

I also wonder about NRG Stadium.

I fully expect to start hearing some rumblings about needing a newer stadium in the next decade.

The new stadiums are light years better than what we built in 2000-2002.

 

In what ways are the newer stadiums better than NRG?

[editor]

On 7/21/2023 at 2:41 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

Yeah I read how they were expecting the arena to spur growth in that neighborhood but it didn't. I wonder if that massive parking lot had anything to do with it instead of building up and around the arena. 

It's happened before.

When New Comiskey Park (now Guaranteed Rate Field) was built, the entire neighborhood of bars, restaurants, and mixed-income housing that surrounded it was plowed under for massive surface parking lots.

A decade later, people started wondering why the are was a dead zone, while Wrigley Field remained a vibrant, desirable neighborhood even with a hundred-year-old stadium.

About a decade ago there was a push to turn the Comiskey parking lots back into a neighborhood, but that got derailed by the 2008 crisis, and everything that has followed since.

Since the stadium and the parking lots are owned by the State, and not real estate billionaires, it could still happen. 

 

[HOUCAJUN]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:36 PM, shasta said:

I also wonder about NRG Stadium.

I fully expect to start hearing some rumblings about needing a newer stadium in the next decade.

The new stadiums are light years better than what we built in 2000-2002.

Hopefully they will build the new one in Ea-Do so we can have a true sports district.

At this point, it will be a multi billion dollar building. Who's footing the bill? 

[Houston19514]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:36 PM, shasta said:

I also wonder about NRG Stadium.

I fully expect to start hearing some rumblings about needing a newer stadium in the next decade.

The new stadiums are light years better than what we built in 2000-2002.

I’ll ask again.  In what ways are the new stadiums light years better than NRG?  What do they have that NRG lacks?

[Twinsanity02]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

I’ll ask again.  In what ways are the new stadiums light years better than NRG?  What do they have that NRG lacks?

My guess is that the exterior isn't as "sexy" as LA's or Atlanta or Dallas. I cannot think of anything else the place lacks. There are 30 stadiums. In terms of capacity we rank number eight. Is this because we have the 2nd or 3rd largest art museum in the US and now feel the football stadium should rank the same? Just asking.

[Brooklyn173]

An interesting article from earlier this year. It touches on some of the items mentioned in this thread.

https://www.sportico.com/leagues/football/2023/nfl-new-stadiums-whats-next-1234709192/

[LosFeliz]

Well, the crazy palaces in Los Angeles and the burbs of DFW have a lot more suites and can expand to 100,000 for super large events.

So, they could give a Super Bowl or NCAA Championship tens of thousands more seats. 

* I am 100% against public money for stadiums 

[Big E]

On 7/21/2023 at 3:36 PM, shasta said:

Hopefully they will build the new one in Ea-Do so we can have a true sports district.

There is no way they can build an NFL stadium in EaDo. They'd have to take out half the neighborhood for the stadium alone, not even getting into the issue of parking.

 

On 7/21/2023 at 4:30 PM, shasta said:

Th McNairs, who literally run a real estate development company, can develop all of that park lot land around NRG a mixed- use destination but they choose not to. 

NRG Park is owned by the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation. No redevelopment is happening to the area without their approval. And both the Houston Rodeo and the Rockets would veto any redevelopment as it would cut into their event parking.

[Houston19514]

14 hours ago, LosFeliz said:

Well, the crazy palaces in Los Angeles and the burbs of DFW have a lot more suites and can expand to 100,000 for super large events.

So, they could give a Super Bowl or NCAA Championship tens of thousands more seats. 

* I am 100% against public money for stadiums 

It doesn't seem to have worked out that way.  NRG stadium has hosted more NCAA championships and Super Bowls than AT&T Stadium.  FWIW, AT&T Stadium cannot add "tens of thousands" more seats. For the one Super Bowl they have hosted, they attempted to add 15,000 extra seats.  But a bunch of those were deemed unsafe.  The rest of AT&T's expanded capacity capability is standing room.

As to SoFi, attendance at Super Bowl LVI was 70,048; less than their stated capacity of 70,148.  Are you certain that they can expand to 100,000 for super large events?  If so, I wonder why they wouldn't have done so for the Super Bowl of large events, so to speak.

[shasta]

On 7/23/2023 at 12:06 PM, Houston19514 said:

I’ll ask again.  In what ways are the new stadiums light years better than NRG?  What do they have that NRG lacks?

capacity, atmosphere, amenities, location, exterior, etc.

There are many things that put it behind the newer stadiums.

 

Both MMP and NRG were of the first generation of "barn" retractable roof stadium designs  yet both keep them closed almost 100% of the time.

[Houston19514]

4 minutes ago, shasta said:

capacity, atmosphere, amenities, location, exterior, etc.

There are many things that put it behind the newer stadiums.

 

Both MMP and NRG were of the first generation of "barn" retractable roof stadium designs  yet both keep them closed almost 100% of the time.

Thank you, but that tells us nothing.

NRG's capacity is equal to SoFi's.

Atmosphere, amenities, location, etc. tells us nothing. What does NRG Stadium need to provide a better "atmosphere" (other than a winning team, which is a different topic).  What amenities do these other stadiums have that NRG stadium lacks?  

Guess what, AT&T Stadium rarely opens its roof.  The frequency or infrequency of roof openings tells us nothing about what the stadium lacks.

You keep telling us NRG is light years behind and there are many things that put it behind, but so far you've not been able to show us even one specific thing.

[steve1363]

14 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Thank you, but that tells us nothing.

NRG's capacity is equal to SoFi's.

Atmosphere, amenities, location, etc. tells us nothing. What does NRG Stadium need to provide a better "atmosphere" (other than a winning team, which is a different topic).  What amenities do these other stadiums have that NRG stadium lacks?  

Guess what, AT&T Stadium rarely opens its roof.  The frequency or infrequency of roof openings tells us nothing about what the stadium lacks.

You keep telling us NRG is light years behind and there are many things that put it behind, but so far you've not been able to show us even one specific thing.

Isn’t it obvious?  We should get new stadiums because “everyone else” is getting new ones and by golly we are entitled to always have the latest and greatest!

[Twinsanity02]

46 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Thank you, but that tells us nothing.

NRG's capacity is equal to SoFi's.

Atmosphere, amenities, location, etc. tells us nothing. What does NRG Stadium need to provide a better "atmosphere" (other than a winning team, which is a different topic).  What amenities do these other stadiums have that NRG stadium lacks?  

Guess what, AT&T Stadium rarely opens its roof.  The frequency or infrequency of roof openings tells us nothing about what the stadium lacks.

You keep telling us NRG is light years behind and there are many things that put it behind, but so far you've not been able to show us even one specific thing.

Just wait. The "World Class City" hustle should soon kick in.

[thatguysly]

Texans just need to model the Falcons and drop food/drink prices.

[shasta]

45 minutes ago, thatguysly said:

Texans just need to model the Falcons and drop food/drink prices.

Since you mentioned the Atlanta Falcons:

Georgia Dome- Opened in 1992

Mercedes Benz Stadium- Opened in 2017....25 YEARS AFTER THE GEORGIA DOME OPENED!

 

NRG will be 25 years old in 2027...I'm just saying, give it another 10 years and we will start hearing cries for a new stadium

Edited July 24 by shasta

[LosFeliz]

 

NRG is a great stadium. It doesn't need replacing. But I love what the Chargers/Rams did with the area around Sofi. Think of if as a Discovery Green surrounding NRG rather than just massive parking lots. 

Of course Sofi offers almost double the amount of luxury seats compared to NRG (13,000 to 7,700O) and 65 more suites as well as things like field cabanas. It's insanely over the top.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24 by LosFeliz