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My trip to Atlanta this week


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ummmm...well not exactly. There used to be a zoning ordinace-or at least an un-spoken agreement that nothing in D.C. exceed 13 floors. London was never seen as a place for high rises until late in the 20th century and it is still a valid argument.

So yes: Houston's is longer than D.C.'s and London's but not relevant in the greater scheme of things.

I think DC's is the building cannot be 20 feet taller than the street it faces.

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atlanta is nice. i wish houston had the hills and MARTA, but thats about it.

back in the 70's there was a push to build rapid transit systems and first DC got a subway, then atlanta got its subway, after that miami got its elevated train, and after that it was supposed to be dallas's turn to get a subway but that got killed by politics. Had that push continued id bet we'd actually have that damn monorail by now. Light rail is great but it just doesnt compare really to a full scale rapid transit system

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atlanta is nice. i wish houston had the hills and MARTA, but thats about it.

back in the 70's there was a push to build rapid transit systems and first DC got a subway, then atlanta got its subway, after that miami got its elevated train, and after that it was supposed to be dallas's turn to get a subway but that got killed by politics. Had that push continued id bet we'd actually have that damn monorail by now. Light rail is great but it just doesnt compare really to a full scale rapid transit system

Thank You! you are one of the only ones that agrees with me about light rail. Light rail is something you use in addition to heavy rail systems. And yes, even Atlanta is get a lightrail, and a commuter rail system in addition to the heavy rail subway lines they already have.

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CityKid will figure it out one day.

I think back about how many cities I have fallen in love with. "I could live here" I would say all caught up in the moment.

Hell, I even fell in love with St. Louis once before.

Love, lust, reality and lack of experience. It's a crazy mix.

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Thank You! you are one of the only ones that agrees with me about light rail. Light rail is something you use in addition to heavy rail systems. And yes, even Atlanta is get a lightrail, and a commuter rail system in addition to the heavy rail subway lines they already have.

If you look at Houston Metro's long term plan.. Heavy Commuter Rail is part of it. It Will be in addition to lightrail.

Houston had to start somewhere. What good would it have been to start with CRT from the suburbs with nowhere to go once you get into town except hop on a bus.

Marta might be nice.. I've never seen it.. but you're comparing grape juice to wine here. Houston is just getting started.. albeit, very late in the game. Ya have to start somewhere...

You're basically saying.. Houston should not have started with the lightrail line it did... so... Where would you have started.

If you had had a clean slate, were in charge of metro, and had enough money for an intial 7-10 mile line.. what would you have done better ?

Personally I think Lightrail is prefectly fine for what we have now to build some flagship spines.. especially since it hits some of the touristy and nicer areas, ultimately I think for an in-city transit system, in a city with an already highly developed road and freeway system.. you're gonna have to move off grade... or separated somehow. With the tunnel system we have downtown, I'd love to see subway incoprorated into the longterm plan. Anything elevated seems so much more impersonal.. I'd hate to see monorail come here.

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I guess this Kroger development is something like what will go in to that old car dealership on Westhimer near the highland village.

Click on the link and once you get there you can click over and look down the street. This is in the Buckhead area.

Atlanta's Peachtree Developments/ Images

Edited by citykid09
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I guess this Kroger development is something like what will go in to that old car dealership on Westhimer near the highland village.

Click on the link and once you get there you can click over and look down the street. This is in the Buckhead area.

Atlanta's Peachtree Developments/ Images

Wow! I've been on the road since Tuesday and citykid is still on his Atlanta binge. Amazing!

I'm curious, does anyone know his age?

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I remember moving to San Francisco because I "fell in love" with the city. Three months. I couldn't wait to get back to Houston. Citykid probably got laid in Atlanta and thinks it's all that. Been there. Done that. Come to your senses. And ... does a larger population mean a better place to live? I liked Houston better in the 70s, when it was the size of Dallas. :wub:

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I'm probably going to regret chiming in on this, but City Kid is really pushing this Atlanta thing a little hard.

Atlanta is a decent city but not to the degree citykid makes it out.

I was unimpressed with there downtown, it lacked any density and was quite frankly boring. The weekend nightlife didn't hold a candle to Houston's Main Street. They deffinately have more people in there streets than Houston, but there skyline isn't close to H-Town's.

Buckhead had some nice highrises but to say it's comparable to Uptown Houston, is goofy at best. It was a glorified business park to me, with the exception of the regency area which was decent.

The Marta was nice to have while there. Houston could use a page out od ATL's book here.

By the way, to prove one of my points, here is Buckhead.

skyline_buckhead_storm.jpg

And Uptown Houston.

73568ni0bk.jpg

So what's up with Buckhead citykid?

ATL comes across as a friendly city like Houston and it's fairly big, but not as city kid makes it out. They have a few decent urban areas as well, but to make it out that any of them are remotely like Boston or any other East coast city is rediculous and inflated.

Houston comes across as much bigger to me, with a more eclectic feel. Our CBD is much bigger and far more dense. Hell, Uptown Houston is as big as Downtown ATL.

I like Atlanta but not to the degree that I like Houston. I'm still blown away by how massive this city is, and it has such great potential in the long run. Houston's still the highrise and population capitol of the South and Southwest until someone knocks us off our pedestal. One things for sure, ATL won't do it anytime soon.

Long live Houston.

I've been to Atlanta about four times. I was once a student at Tampa Technical Institute and for "spring break", a buddy and I went up there to party. I knew I was going to compare it to both Tampa and Houston. It is sophisticated compared to Tampa, definitely. But Atlanta just lacks the overall edge that Houston has. There is not even a real spread around immigrant community that Houston has. But the ATL has "Buford Highway" as the main drag, the one-stop international spot of genuine ethnic businesses (mostly Korean with some Vietnamese here, Indian there, etc.).

Houston has Bellaire (mixed Chinese-Viet), Long Point (Korean), Bissonnet in long stretches from Alief to West U.(Filipino, Pakistani, Nigerian, El Salvadoran, Mexican), Hillcroft (Persian, Indian, Pakistani), Travis/Louisiana(Vietnamese), Veteran's Memorial (mixed Asian: Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Filipino, etc). Of course, Houston is a close rival to Atlanta in terms of African-American affection (Tampa is vilified). For Latin Americans, it's not even close.

Atlanta cannot match that. Pure and simple. But I think that citykid likes a sort of cute Disney-like conformity in a Sun Belt city and the ATL provides that more for him.

Houston has a more sophisticated downtown that seems to have a true glass/concrete vibe even if its character is constantly evolving. Atlanta has a downtown with a semblance of underused utility and scope. Kind of like that of Dallas or Phoenix or L.A.'s newer downtown sections. The Underground is just a tourist trap. It draws away from downtown proper. At least Houston's tunnel system has an enjoyable sense of purpose despite it not being an actual touristy point. When I used to work at the South Texas College of Law, I enjoyed my lunch hours, people watching, munching, walking and smoothie drinking almost every day. In Atlanta? If I lived there, I would probably look forward to The Underground maybe once every six months.

The Super Bowls sort of put it in perspective. When Atlanta had it, there were complaints of lack of a big party scene. In Houston, it got props for the Main Street nightly fest. I wonder where citykid can say Houston needs catching up?

Outside of the main cute commercial areas...Atlanta's feel is kind of rural. There are not really the dense Sharpstowns, Westchases and Shepherd Plazas to complement the sprawl. Greenway Plaza and the Med. Center are nice options for misc. diversions/needs in Houston. There are not much in the way of parallel drags to offset Peachtree...and that causes some really hellacious freeway traffic that I consider to be proportionately worse than L.A.'s. In Houston and L.A. one can always use the Eldridges, Sepulvedas, Kirkwoods, Western Aves, W. Bellforts and Vermonts to get off the freeways. I didn't really notice those options in Atlanta, but maybe I'm overlooking.

While there is the alternative area in Atlanta called Five Points or something like that, it totally lacks the organic attachment that The Montrose enjoys.

Yeah, Buckhead seems to have that Deep Ellum-like look, if more upscale...Peachtree is a more sidewalk-friendly version of Westheimer...but I'm into the total package, not necessarily faux-urban semantics. I'd rather party or eat in Rice Village, a cool but still wild alterntaive to downtown, than in Buckhead.

Atlanta might look good, even cuter (as if that matters) than Houston, but contrary to what citykid says, in terms of higher arts, truly eclectic ethnic eateries and international population...the ATL has A LOT of catching up to do with H-town.

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Thank You! you are one of the only ones that agrees with me about light rail. Light rail is something you use in addition to heavy rail systems. And yes, even Atlanta is get a lightrail, and a commuter rail system in addition to the heavy rail subway lines they already have.

Rail is nice. Really it is. I enjoy taking the San Diego Trolley when possible (great way to avoid those subfascist and routine "DUI and license" checkpoints here).

But it is not a cure-all. It does not make people abandon their cars and reduce congestion. In San Diego, people can easily take the Trolley from South Bay to downtown or Old Town or Fashion/Mission Valley...if they work there. Yet...traffic from north to south on I-805 and I-5 is still ridiculous. Rail does not take people to Kearney Mesa and other such business points between La Jolla and Poway. If you work up along the busy districts going to Escondido and past, you are SOL. I make this perspective being a South Bay resident.

Rail is not a total solution in a sprawling Sun Belt city but it helps. There are still many bus transfers to take, station parking lots one must still use an automobile to get to.

There is rail, The Coaster, to take people from South County San Diego to North County (Oceanside, Carlsbad, etc.) but who's going to spend 20 bucks a ticket for work?

I'm glad Houston is doing what it can to get rail expanded...but rail is one aspect I refuse to consider when accounting for a city's overall appeal.

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There is rail, The Coaster, to take people from South County San Diego to North County (Oceanside, Carlsbad, etc.) but who's going to spend 20 bucks a ticket for work?

Thousands of people. Heck, I remember my mother used to spend $160/week commuting into New York by bus each week. People in Chicago easily spend $20 each way on Metra or Amtrak to get to work. I'm sure there are runs in New York that are double that. I think it only sounds outrageous because you're not used to it.

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Thousands of people. Heck, I remember my mother used to spend $160/week commuting into New York by bus each week. People in Chicago easily spend $20 each way on Metra or Amtrak to get to work. I'm sure there are runs in New York that are double that. I think it only sounds outrageous because you're not used to it.

Yeah, but in a town like New York, a good majority of people do not own cars and the expenses that go with them. Spending that much on public transit in the Big Apple is not as bad, I suppose, when there aren't personal automobile issues involved.

In San Diego, like Houston or L.A., it's a sprawlfest where people have to have cars. They pay ungodly rents here, pay in extreme fuel costs, the car note and whatever else. I think I over-estimated on the Coaster fare but still to pay an extra $150 monthly for public transit (and that's just the Pass special) on top of car ownership is out of the question. So still it's an automobile society in San Diego County despite the nice public rail line.

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Thousands of people. Heck, I remember my mother used to spend $160/week commuting into New York by bus each week. People in Chicago easily spend $20 each way on Metra or Amtrak to get to work. I'm sure there are runs in New York that are double that. I think it only sounds outrageous because you're not used to it.

I spend that musch when I am in New York, cummuting from Manhattan to the Middle of long island.

What I think is weird is how bis Atlanta freeways are compared to Houstons. Here is a discusion about it on here:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...ic=11758&st=580

I told the people on there when you add in Houston's feeder roads and sperate HOV lanes it adds up to be about the same, if not more. What I don't get about Houstons HOV is why is there only one in the middle? What about the people going the other way?

atl8lanes1gd.jpg

I wonder how they get all of that traffic in Atlanta with all of those lanes? It seems like it would be less traffic. Isn't the Katy freeway going to be wider then this?

Edited by citykid09
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are you serious? they switch the direction of the HOV lanes for the morning and evening commutes

I knew that, but other cities have them going both ways without barriers like the picture below in Atlanta.

atl8lanes1gd.jpg

Edited by citykid09
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I spend that musch when I am in New York, cummuting from Manhattan to the Middle of long island.

What I think is weird is how bis Atlanta freeways are compared to Houstons. Here is a discusion about it on here:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...ic=11758&st=580

I told the people on there when you add in Houston's feeder roads and sperate HOV lanes it adds up to be about the same, if not more. What I don't get about Houstons HOV is why is there only one in the middle? What about the people going the other way?

atl8lanes1gd.jpg

I wonder how they get all of that traffic in Atlanta with all of those lanes? It seems like it would be less traffic. Isn't the Katy freeway going to be wider then this?

Are you REALLY bragging about Atlanta's 16 lane freeways? :blink:

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I knew that, but other cities have them going both ways without barriers like the picture below in Atlanta.

atl8lanes1gd.jpg

Tell me of one city with a more extensive freeway system than Houston? Could it be we dont need them in both directions at all times because theres more than one way to get from point A to point B in Houston?

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CityKid, do you have the cable TV channel A&E? The show City Confidential did a profile today on Atlanta............wondering if you saw it :)

I did see that. I don't know if its the one you are talking about though. Was it the one where the two Miami Cops went to Atlanta to see if a kid had killed his father and fleed to Atlanta?

Edited by citykid09
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I've been to Atlanta about four times. I was once a student at Tampa Technical Institute and for "spring break", a buddy and I went up there to party. I knew I was going to compare it to both Tampa and Houston. It is sophisticated compared to Tampa, definitely. But Atlanta just lacks the overall edge that Houston has. There is not even a real spread around immigrant community that Houston has. But the ATL has "Buford Highway" as the main drag, the one-stop international spot of genuine ethnic businesses (mostly Korean with some Vietnamese here, Indian there, etc.).

Houston has Bellaire (mixed Chinese-Viet), Long Point (Korean), Bissonnet in long stretches from Alief to West U.(Filipino, Pakistani, Nigerian, El Salvadoran, Mexican), Hillcroft (Persian, Indian, Pakistani), Travis/Louisiana(Vietnamese), Veteran's Memorial (mixed Asian: Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Filipino, etc). Of course, Houston is a close rival to Atlanta in terms of African-American affection (Tampa is vilified). For Latin Americans, it's not even close.

Atlanta cannot match that. Pure and simple. But I think that citykid likes a sort of cute Disney-like conformity in a Sun Belt city and the ATL provides that more for him.

Houston has a more sophisticated downtown that seems to have a true glass/concrete vibe even if its character is constantly evolving. Atlanta has a downtown with a semblance of underused utility and scope. Kind of like that of Dallas or Phoenix or L.A.'s newer downtown sections. The Underground is just a tourist trap. It draws away from downtown proper. At least Houston's tunnel system has an enjoyable sense of purpose despite it not being an actual touristy point. When I used to work at the South Texas College of Law, I enjoyed my lunch hours, people watching, munching, walking and smoothie drinking almost every day. In Atlanta? If I lived there, I would probably look forward to The Underground maybe once every six months.

The Super Bowls sort of put it in perspective. When Atlanta had it, there were complaints of lack of a big party scene. In Houston, it got props for the Main Street nightly fest. I wonder where citykid can say Houston needs catching up?

Outside of the main cute commercial areas...Atlanta's feel is kind of rural. There are not really the dense Sharpstowns, Westchases and Shepherd Plazas to complement the sprawl. Greenway Plaza and the Med. Center are nice options for misc. diversions/needs in Houston. There are not much in the way of parallel drags to offset Peachtree...and that causes some really hellacious freeway traffic that I consider to be proportionately worse than L.A.'s. In Houston and L.A. one can always use the Eldridges, Sepulvedas, Kirkwoods, Western Aves, W. Bellforts and Vermonts to get off the freeways. I didn't really notice those options in Atlanta, but maybe I'm overlooking.

While there is the alternative area in Atlanta called Five Points or something like that, it totally lacks the organic attachment that The Montrose enjoys.

Yeah, Buckhead seems to have that Deep Ellum-like look, if more upscale...Peachtree is a more sidewalk-friendly version of Westheimer...but I'm into the total package, not necessarily faux-urban semantics. I'd rather party or eat in Rice Village, a cool but still wild alterntaive to downtown, than in Buckhead.

Atlanta might look good, even cuter (as if that matters) than Houston, but contrary to what citykid says, in terms of higher arts, truly eclectic ethnic eateries and international population...the ATL has A LOT of catching up to do with H-town.

This imo, is the best post of this thread. It summed up my feelings during my times in Atlanta almost exactly.

What's funny is, citykid seems to have overlooked it.

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Nah this one was about a husband murdering his wife.

Ok I do know what you are talking about, I am getting City Confidential mixed up with a show thats called it think "the first 48."

But I think I have seen the one you are talking about. They were rich people from Atlanta's Buckhead area and they where socialites also. He killed here in the house or had her killed, something like that. And I think they should how Atlanta had grown and how see didn't get to live to see what the city had become after the Olympics. Is that the one? Because I think there were about 3 other Atlanta episodes that I saw.

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Ok I do know what you are talking about, I am getting City Confidential mixed up with a show thats called it think "the first 48."

But I think I have seen the one you are talking about. They were rich people from Atlanta's Buckhead area and they where socialites also. He killed here in the house or had her killed, something like that. And I think they should how Atlanta had grown and how see didn't get to live to see what the city had become after the Olympics. Is that the one? Because I think there were about 3 other Atlanta episodes that I saw.

Atlanta, first word on the Moon.

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Atlanta, first word on the Moon.

Priceless :):):):)):))

Ok I do know what you are talking about, I am getting City Confidential mixed up with a show thats called it think "the first 48."

But I think I have seen the one you are talking about. They were rich people from Atlanta's Buckhead area and they where socialites also. He killed here in the house or had her killed, something like that. And I think they should how Atlanta had grown and how see didn't get to live to see what the city had become after the Olympics. Is that the one? Because I think there were about 3 other Atlanta episodes that I saw.

Yes thats the one. Check out the one on Houston too, its pretty good :)

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  • 1 month later...

I had a six hour layover in Atlanta the last time I went back to Houston. I jumped on the train and walked around town. Honestly I really haven't come to a conclusion on Atlanta, I'm sure there is plenty more than what I experienced

Well, Maceo is my real name and I never really knew the last name of the guy. Im not even from Houston. Im in the atlanta area. I just love Houston though. I think its a wonderful city.
Maceo, I was just wondering what your take on Atlanta is pros and cons and how they compare to Houston. We have heard from other folks but I'm just curious what you have to say ;)

Edit: just found this qoute I see what your take is, just wanted to know details

I wish I could trade cities with citykid. I hate it here in atlanta and would love to move to Houston. I have ALWAYS had a great time there. I dont understand why we get so much hype here and Houston gets so little, but if I had my choice I would take Houston every day of the week! Citykid, I'll gladly take your spot in Houston if you take my spot here!

Don't mean to put you on the spot ;)

Edited by Houstonian in Iraq
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Add all of Atlanta's area counties togeather and they are about to surpass Houston's there counties are much smaller than Harris and Ft Bend.

Anyways, by the next census Harris County will go down to the 4th largest county and Maricopa County, AZ will go up to #3.

Ok, I know i'm really late on this, but i'm at work right now and just came along this thread while browsing google.... City kid: you are probably right that all of Atlantas metro counties will equal more people than Harris and Ft. Bend county, but there is only one problem with that... Houston metro has more counties than just Harris and Ft. Bend. If you compare metro to metro population, Houston will outnumber Atlanta by about 800,000 people. With the Houston metro being one of the fastest growing areas in the country, Atlanta will not catch up to this anytime soon. Atlanta is booming and doing very well, but so is Houston. Both cities are great and are growing rapidly, but until Houston has a horrible economic recession, Atlanta won't come close.

Edited by McNizzle
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Ok, I know i'm really late on this, but i'm at work right now and just came along this thread while browsing google.... City kid: you are probably right that all of Atlantas metro counties will equal more people than Harris and Ft. Bend county, but there is only one problem with that... Houston metro has more counties than just Harris and Ft. Bend. If you compare metro to metro population, Houston will outnumber Atlanta by about 800,000 people. With the Houston metro being one of the fastest growing areas in the country, Atlanta will not catch up to this anytime soon. Atlanta is booming and doing very well, but so is Houston. Both cities are great and are growing rapidly, but until Houston has a horrible economic recession, Atlanta won't come close.

Well put........Welcome to HAIF :) McNizzle

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I had a six hour layover in Atlanta the last time I went back to Houston. I jumped on the train and walked around town. Honestly I really haven't come to a conclusion on Atlanta, I'm sure there is plenty more than what I experienced

Maceo, I was just wondering what your take on Atlanta is pros and cons and how they compare to Houston. We have heard from other folks but I'm just curious what you have to say ;)

Edit: just found this qoute I see what your take is, just wanted to know details

Don't mean to put you on the spot ;)

Sorry it took me so long to respond. I just ran across this today. I cant sum it up any better than worldlyman posted. He said it all. Also, hate is a strong word. I dont hate it here, but as I said, I think Atlanta gets to much hype and Houston to little. Houston has better museums, the best food Ive EVER had, better shopping (isnt the Galleria like 325 stores while the biggest mall here has 220) and a better night scene (if you're not into the strip club thing which Im not). The job market there is better and I just think that the overall quality of life is better there. I have been trying to convince my wife to relocate there for a few years because she is in the medical field and I know about your famed medical center.

This may be off topic, but Im also a menber of SSC. You guys are talking about how long it will be before Atlanta surpasses Houston in metro population. They think Houston metro is only bigger than Atlanta metro by 200,000 and that we are growing so much faster than you and we will pass you in 2-5 years. I know that the metro of Houston is more like 400,000 bigger and Houston is growing just as fast, but people (SSC members) just wont beleive that. They swear Houston is only 200k bigger. Can someone help me prove this?

Edited by maceo9903
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This may be off topic, but Im also a menber of SSC. You guys are talking about how long it will be before Atlanta surpasses Houston in metro population. They think Houston metro is only bigger than Atlanta metro by 200,000 and that we are growing so much faster than you and we will pass you in 2-5 years. I know that the metro of Houston is more like 400,000 bigger and Houston is growing just as fast people wont beleive that. They swear Houston is only 200k bigger. Can someone help me prove this?

maceo, it depends on which numbers they look at. The counties included in a metro area change every few years, as do the definitions. There are MSAs and CSAs, with a CSA being a much larger area. The CSA estimates have Atlanta at 5,266,131 and Houston at 5,380,661. The smaller, slightly more compact MSA has Atlanta at 4,568,000 and Houston at 5,280,000. So, depending on which side of the argument you are on, you can say they are close, or not so close.

The fact is, if you are standing in the middle of Atlanta, Houston, Dallas or Phoenix, you can't tell the difference, because they ALL go on for miles, and have similar densities. Only the topography and the trees/cactus give them away.

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maceo, it depends on which numbers they look at. The counties included in a metro area change every few years, as do the definitions. There are MSAs and CSAs, with a CSA being a much larger area. The CSA estimates have Atlanta at 5,266,131 and Houston at 5,380,661. The smaller, slightly more compact MSA has Atlanta at 4,568,000 and Houston at 5,280,000. So, depending on which side of the argument you are on, you can say they are close, or not so close.

There are no more CMSAs, which were combinations of multiple metro areas.

Houston's metro is 5.28million as of the July 1, 2005 Census estimate.

Atlanta's metro is 4.91million as of the July 1, 2005 Census estimate.

Atlanta did indeed grow faster in the year before that estimate, both in absolute and relative gains, but it would take quite a while to make up that lead. All of that was before Katrina.

Jason

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A little off subject

I remember moving to San Francisco because I "fell in love" with the city.

My friend moved to Austin because he fell in love with it. Six months later he can not wait to move back to Houston. I tried warning him that 6th Street and all the college parties were going to get old quik and that Houston is more well rounded and better to live in. Last night he couldn't stop talking about how much he disliked it.......live and learn ;)

It's alright to visit I just wouldn't want to live there....that's just me

Thanks maceo9903 for the response :)

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I went back to the start of this thread and Im going to give you the truth on some of the things citykid stated. I really beleive that when we gets here, he will find that the grass is not greener on the other side. I think he is in love with all the hype atlanta gets and wants to be in a city that is in the spotlight. I may be right, and I may certainly be wrong. Either way, to each his own.

About Marta. If you think its great, its not. The state wont fund it and they continually have cut service and routes. Trains dont leave on time and the busses are sometimes 10 minutes late. It takes some people 2 hours to get where they want to go even if its only 15 minutes away. Dont beleive me? A local weekly paper called "Creative Loafing" had a great article entitled "Waiting for a Ride" in the middle of April. Check it out. Alot of people beleive that racial motives are behind why Marta is so underfunded. Marta was origianally planned to run in 5 counties. Fulton, DeKalb, Cobb, Clayton, and Gwinnett counties. The latter 3 voted against it because it would bring "poorer" people (code word for black) into their negiborhoods. Ridership is also not what citykid portrayed it to be. The train does get good numbers going north from 5 points to the Doraville station (Doraville being the terminus going North) during the morning and afternoon commutes, but that is it. Any other time you can be in a car with about 10 other people. There is a lot more foot traffic in Downtown atlanta than in Downtown Houston. You have to remember, they dont have the nations largest tunnel system under their streets either. All that foot traffic citykid spoke of leaves Downtown atlanta with the workforce. Undergroud Atlanta is just like the tunnel just on a smaller scale. It is not open past 10pm. The only think in Underground atlanta that isnt in the Houston tunnel system is a Hooter's. Underground atlanta is more of a tourist attraction as I have not met one person yet who lives here that makes plans to go Underground atlanta during the weekend. Houstons tunnel is more functional and serves more of a purpose. There is nothing like the Main Event going on in Downtown Atlanta.

citykid, (for whatever reason) seems to like freeways and (and seems to think) that congestion is somehow cool. At least that is my perception of him so far. citykid, atlanta freeways are not bigger than Houstons. The connector is only that big because 75 and 85 merge into one going through Downtown atlanta. Im sure the same would be true if 45 and 59 in Houston were one road in downtown Houston. Houston's population seems to be more evenly distributed thus spreading the traffic around better. Most of our traffic goes North in the evening and South in the morning because most of our population is in the north part of the metro. That pattern holds true on all of our major freeways (I 75, I 85, and GA 400) North of I 285. An oddity about atlanta is that during rush hour you can make better time going through the middle of town than you can on the Northern part of I 285. I live in gwinnett county (which is norhteast of town on I 85) . If its 5 pm and Im in Cobb County or somewhere west of I 75, I will get to 75, head south into downtown, and get on 85 from there and head north. Doing that saves me more time than I can tell you rather than driving the 12 miles between 75 and 85 on the perimiter (the loop). We only have 1 bypass (loop) to your 2. Another reason traffic may seem worse here is because we dont have those "feeder" roads that you do to that help keep some of the traffic off the freeway. We also dont have the big city streets like you do so that people dont have to take the freeway. Quick story. I was in Houston once and there was a bad accident on 10. I wanted to get to 610 so I could get on 59 going southwest and get to my friends house. Anyway, I wanted to avoid the traffic. So I rode Gessner all the way from north of I 10 to Missouri City. It was 3 lanes on both sides the whole way! Try finding roads like that in atlanta. Houston has several roads like that too. Westhimer, Richmond, Bissonnet, Beechnut, Belaire, Fondren, and so on. They all take traffic off the freeways. If you are caught in a back up here, you have no choice but to grind it out as we simply do not have the many options of roads to choose from like Houston does. atlanta has its city roads, but they are mostly 1 lane in both directions and they twist and turn so much that you just better know where you're going. Then they have lights that back traffic up on these 1 lane roads so badly that you were better off just dealing with the congestion on the freeway.

atlanta does have it's tourist spots like citykid pointed out. CNN, World of Coke, Georgia Aquarium, and MLK's house are all nice. But, except for the Aquarium, how many times can you go back to these places? You can only take the World of Coke tour, CNN tour and view MLK's house so many times. citykid may go to these places like 2 more times, but that is it. Now the Aquarium is really cool and something you can do over and over because Im sure the exibits change there. Houston may not have the Worlds largest aquarium like we do, but arent there 3 in the Houston area? Dont you have the Downtown Aquarium, The one on the Kemah Boardwalk, and Moody Gardens? So, again I think Houston can hold its own there. Houston's Museums are world class, your Performing Arts and theatre are world class, the Houston Grand Opera and Symphony are world class, the dining there is world class, and so is the shopping. Houston just has more to offer a well rounded person than atlanta does. As Ive said before, if you're into the strip club thing, and Im not, then come to atlanta. Other than that, Houston is a better city than atlalta everyday of the week. It wont be long before citykid discovers this.

Edited by maceo9903
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I went back to the start of this thread and Im going to give you the truth on some of the things citykid stated. I really beleive that when we gets here, he will find that the grass is not greener on the other side. I think he is in love with all the hype atlanta gets and wants to be in a city that is in the spotlight. I may be right, and I may certainly be wrong. Either way, to each his own.

About Marta. If you think its great, its not. The state wont fund it and they continually have cut service and routes. Trains dont leave on time and the busses are sometimes 10 minutes late. It takes some people 2 hours to get where they want to go even if its only 15 minutes away. Dont beleive me? A local weekly paper called "Creative Loafing" had a great article entitled "Waiting for a Ride" in the middle of April. Check it out. Alot of people beleive that racial motives are behind why Marta is so underfunded. Marta was origianally planned to run in 5 counties. Fulton, DeKalb, Cobb, Clayton, and Gwinnett counties. The latter 3 voted against it because it would bring "poorer" people (code word for black) into their negiborhoods. Ridership is also not what citykid portrayed it to be. The train does get good numbers going north from 5 points to the Doraville station (Doraville being the terminus going North) during the morning and afternoon commutes, but that is it. Any other time you can be in a car with about 10 other people. There is a lot more foot traffic in Downtown atlanta than in Downtown Houston. You have to remember, they dont have the nations largest tunnel system under their streets either. Undergroud Atlanta is just like the tunnel just on a smaller scale. It is not open past 10pm. All that foot traffic goes with the workforce as well. There is nothing like the Main Event going on in Downtown Atlanta.

citykid, (for whatever reason) seems to like freeways and (and seems to think) that congestion is somehow cool At least that is my perception of him so far. citykid, atlanta freeways are not bigger than Houstons. The connector is only that big because 75 and 85 merge into one going through Downtown atlanta. Im sure the same would be true if 45 and 59 in Houston were on road in downtown Houston. Traffic is only worse here because you guys have those "feeder" roads to keep some of the traffic of your freeways. We only have 1 bypass (loop) to your 2. We dont have the big city streets like you do so that people dont have to take the freeway. Quick story. I was in Houston once and there was a bad accident on 10. I wanted to get to 610 so I could get on 59 going southwest and get to my friends house. Anyway, I wanted to avoid the traffic. So I rode Gessner all the way from north of I 10 to Missouri City. It was 3 lanes on both sides the whole way! Try finding roads like that in atlanta. Once you're on the freeway here, if there is a back up , you have no choice but to grind it out. Houston has several roads like that too. Westhimer, Richmond, Bissonnet, Beechnut, Belaire, Fondren, and so on all take traffic off the freeways. atlanta has its city roads, but they are mostly 1 lane in both directions and they twist and turn so much that you just better know where you're going. Then they have lights that back traffic up on these 1 lane roads that you were better off just dealing with the congestion on the freeway.

atlanta does have it's tourist spots like citykid pointed out. CNN, World of Coke, Georgia Aquarium, and MLK's house are all nice. But, except for the Aquarium, how many times can you go back to these places. You can only take the World of Coke tour, CNN tour and view MLK's house so many times. citykid may go to these places like 2 more times, but that is it. Now the Aquarium is really cool and something you can do over and over because Im sure the exibits change there. Houston may not have the Worlds largest aquarium like we do, but arent their 3 in the Houston area? Dont you have the Downtown Aquarium, The one on the Kemah Boardwalk, and Moody Gardens? So, again I think Houston can hold its own there. Houston's Museums are world class, your Performing Arts and theatre are world class, the Houston Grand Opera and Symphony are world class, the dining there is world class, and so is the shopping. Houston just has more to offer a well rounded person than atlanta does. As Ive said before, if you're into the strip club thing, and Im not, then come to atlanta. Other than that, Houston is a better city than atlalta everyday of the week. It wont be long before citykid discovers this.

Well rounded post.

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I went back to the start of this thread and Im going to give you the truth on some of the things citykid stated. I really beleive that when we gets here, he will find that the grass is not greener on the other side. I think he is in love with all the hype atlanta gets and wants to be in a city that is in the spotlight. I may be right, and I may certainly be wrong. Either way, to each his own.

About Marta. If you think its great, its not. The state wont fund it and they continually have cut service and routes. Trains dont leave on time and the busses are sometimes 10 minutes late. It takes some people 2 hours to get where they want to go even if its only 15 minutes away. Dont beleive me? A local weekly paper called "Creative Loafing" had a great article entitled "Waiting for a Ride" in the middle of April. Check it out. Alot of people beleive that racial motives are behind why Marta is so underfunded. Marta was origianally planned to run in 5 counties. Fulton, DeKalb, Cobb, Clayton, and Gwinnett counties. The latter 3 voted against it because it would bring "poorer" people (code word for black) into their negiborhoods. Ridership is also not what citykid portrayed it to be. The train does get good numbers going north from 5 points to the Doraville station (Doraville being the terminus going North) during the morning and afternoon commutes, but that is it. Any other time you can be in a car with about 10 other people. There is a lot more foot traffic in Downtown atlanta than in Downtown Houston. You have to remember, they dont have the nations largest tunnel system under their streets either. Undergroud Atlanta is just like the tunnel just on a smaller scale. It is not open past 10pm. All that foot traffic goes with the workforce as well. There is nothing like the Main Event going on in Downtown Atlanta.

citykid, (for whatever reason) seems to like freeways and (and seems to think) that congestion is somehow cool. At least that is my perception of him so far. citykid, atlanta freeways are not bigger than Houstons. The connector is only that big because 75 and 85 merge into one going through Downtown atlanta. Im sure the same would be true if 45 and 59 in Houston were one road in downtown Houston. Houston's population seems to be more evenly distributed thus spreading the traffic around better. Most of our traffic goes North in the evening and South in the morning because most of our population is in the north part of the metro. That pattern holds true on all of our major freeways (I 75, I 85, and GA 400) North of I 285. An oddity about atlanta is that you can make better time going through the middle of town than you can on the Northern part of I 285. I live in gwinnett county (which is norhteast of town on I 85) . If its 5 pm and Im in Cobb County or somewhere west of I 75, I will get to 75, head south into downtown, and get on 85 from there and head north. Doing that saves me more time than I can tell you rather than driving the 12 miles between 75 and 85 on the perimiter (the loop). We only have 1 bypass (loop) to your 2. Another reason traffic may seem worse here is because we dont have those "feeder" roads that you do to that help keep some of the traffic off the freeway. We also dont have the big city streets like you do so that people dont have to take the freeway. Quick story. I was in Houston once and there was a bad accident on 10. I wanted to get to 610 so I could get on 59 going southwest and get to my friends house. Anyway, I wanted to avoid the traffic. So I rode Gessner all the way from north of I 10 to Missouri City. It was 3 lanes on both sides the whole way! Try finding roads like that in atlanta. Once you're on the freeway here, if there is a back up , you have no choice but to grind it out. Houston has several roads like that too. Westhimer, Richmond, Bissonnet, Beechnut, Belaire, Fondren, and so on all take traffic off the freeways. atlanta has its city roads, but they are mostly 1 lane in both directions and they twist and turn so much that you just better know where you're going. Then they have lights that back traffic up on these 1 lane roads that you were better off just dealing with the congestion on the freeway.

atlanta does have it's tourist spots like citykid pointed out. CNN, World of Coke, Georgia Aquarium, and MLK's house are all nice. But, except for the Aquarium, how many times can you go back to these places. You can only take the World of Coke tour, CNN tour and view MLK's house so many times. citykid may go to these places like 2 more times, but that is it. Now the Aquarium is really cool and something you can do over and over because Im sure the exibits change there. Houston may not have the Worlds largest aquarium like we do, but arent their 3 in the Houston area? Dont you have the Downtown Aquarium, The one on the Kemah Boardwalk, and Moody Gardens? So, again I think Houston can hold its own there. Houston's Museums are world class, your Performing Arts and theatre are world class, the Houston Grand Opera and Symphony are world class, the dining there is world class, and so is the shopping. Houston just has more to offer a well rounded person than atlanta does. As Ive said before, if you're into the strip club thing, and Im not, then come to atlanta. Other than that, Houston is a better city than atlalta everyday of the week. It wont be long before citykid discovers this.

Very good post.

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I knew that, but other cities have them going both ways without barriers like the picture below in Atlanta.

atl8lanes1gd.jpg

And can you see how congested their HOV lane is? Without the double stripe, you can't distinguish it from the ordinary lanes.

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I think Underground is much more popular now than it used to be.

As a suburban resident of the Atlanta area, I ride MARTA to Centinnel Olympic Park and other downtown/midtown destinations a couple times a month. It's a shame MARTA is so neglected. With all the excitement over the Beltline, you'd think 'they' would take better care of what's already there.

The arts scene in Atlanta really is pathetic, but it's slowly getting better. Atlanta is a great place to party. Many areas are very beautiful (I LOVE the woods in my backyard). There's an energy in 'the city' that's hard for other sunbelt cities to match.

Basically, though, there's very little that available in Houston that is not equally available in Atlanta. Atlanta is 'hot' right now, and it's going to be 'hot' for a long time, but the regions residents/politicians seem to be ignoring a handful of long range planning issues that could stifle population growth. Just like Houston, though, there's an impressive ability to tackle problems just when it seems nothing can get done.

Edited by tamtagon
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I think that Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta are all 'hot' right now. Look how fast they are growing (although Atlanta is slowing down, while Houston and Dallas are speading up, it is still growing quite fast).

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I think that Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta are all 'hot' right now. Look how fast they are growing (although Atlanta is slowing down, while Houston and Dallas are speading up, it is still growing quite fast).

It seems to me that almost every sunbelt city is relatively hot right now, not just Houston, Dallas and Atlanta. The difference is that Houston had a big head start during it's oil boom.

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Basically, though, there's very little that available in Houston that is not equally available in Atlanta.

I agree and I disagree with this statement. I think on the surface, we have more of what tourists would like to see. As the average citizen of one of these cities goes, I think Houston has more to offer. You said so yourself that the arts scene here is "pathetic." Houston's is wonderful. So are their museums and I know I've already said it a hundred times, but the food there is the best I've EVER had! The shopping in Houston beats atlanta and I just like the overall disposition of the people of Houston. I think it is a wonderful city that dosent get the credit it deserves.

Edited by maceo9903
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