VelvetJ Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Again, I am a member of this church and guess what I'm getting her for her birthday? Just guess.One IMPORTANT point some of you are missing is this is VOLUNTARY.I'm not going to get into a debate but I do not believe Christians are suppose to be poor. Before I became a Christian, I enjoyed a certain type of cologne that happens to be pricey. Since I became a Christian, do you think I stopped buying that cologne with the mindset that that money could be going to charity? No. Does anyone know the type of lifestyle this woman had before she became a minister? Does anyone know whether this woman has another job? Did some of you know that all pastors do not believe they should give up all of their posessions like priests? Do you believe Jesus himself was poor?Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand why people are suspicous and are turned off to ministers and Jim and Tammy Baker are examples of that. So it's a persons personal responsibility to check things out for themselves. That is what I did and I encourage everyone to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VelvetJ Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Velvetj, yes I am sure you know a lot more than us, but for a minister to have a national audience or local, what does it sound like to ask for luxuries from Louis Vuitton, Gucci, Chanel, Saks, Neimans and Escada from someone who does not attend the church or even members. I am a Christian also, but certain things can get annoying from both ends of the spectrum: People who think certain Christians have some sort of agenda and then the people who feed off of that stereotype, especially when it is someone in a high position such as a minister who usually teaches against such things. Just like my mom told me, I cannot be judgemental about the situation, but as a whole the situation comes off as tasteless. I believe my church does much for the community too, even overseas, but I would have a hard time to commend or accept this situation.WesternGulf, what do you think is going to happen if she doesn't get those things?Again, you must not loose sight of the fact this is voluntary. And if you think all of her gifts will be from the places on that site, no you do not know her and have never been to the church like you stated. Do you know how many people have learned Christians should prosper and have since prospered through that ministry? Do you know how many lives this woman has personally touched all over the world? Have you any idea how many lives have been turned around because of this ministry? I will tell you that my own life has been so blessed by these people with visible results, if I had a million dollars to give to them as a thank you, I would in a second. And with all due respect, just because something comes across tacky to you or your mom, does not change the facts or the truth.Dude, you know I got respect for you, but just as sure as I am about my name, you are off base on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Again, I am a member of this church and guess what I'm getting her for her birthday? Just guess.A Rollex from Harwin Ave.?So it's a persons personal responsibility to check things out for themselves. That is what I did and I encourage everyone to do the same.Glad to see you've done your research. Just a suggestion: you may want to upgrade from fake "Dr.s" to the real thing. Wander down to the 30 member congregation of African missionaries who actually devote their time and resources where it really counts. Your support of these tax-evading frauds only enables them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Couldn't she just buy those for herself with that $100 cover charge per person? Man I should start charing people to go to my Birthday's.She sounds pretty greedy to me. Dispicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesternGulf Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 WesternGulf, what do you think is going to happen if she doesn't get those things?Again, you must not loose sight of the fact this is voluntary. And if you think all of her gifts will be from the places on that site, no you do not know her and have never been to the church like you stated. Do you know how many people have learned Christians should prosper and have since prospered through that ministry? Do you know how many lives this woman has personally touched all over the world? Have you any idea how many lives have been turned around because of this ministry? I will tell you that my own life has been so blessed by these people with visible results, if I had a million dollars to give to them as a thank you, I would in a second. And with all due respect, just because something comes across tacky to you or your mom, does not change the facts or the truth.Dude, you know I got respect for you, but just as sure as I am about my name, you are off base on this.I'm a pretty open minded person so yes I can say I don't know her character but I cannot put my finger on how a minister or any person for that matter, I wouldn't care if it were my sister in law for her wedding, place such items on her list? I know you may be thinking who cares if its Fucci or Gucci, but just being realistic. What kind of vibe do you expect to get from a minister asking for such things when he or she is probably already on a higher economic status than most of the people who will be giving her the gifts? I mean this in the most respectful way since I think it is great what you claim that she has done for you and many others, but I just find it quite awkward that someone of her status could be that blind.It sort of goes to what TJones said: I don't usually judge a book by its cover, but this woman has made her own bed, by ADVERTISING IT ! I have respect for the church, and I know some abuse it, but that wasn't too smart even if that wasn't her intention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 dbigtex, i say we buy tickets and go: http://www.newlight.org/ministry/wotw/attire.html but i get to wear the tux And I think I'll go with the gold...cream washes me out. yeah, i am sure this ain't no ad eundem degree... oooooooh....and if you can't make it to the party, don't forget: "Oh my God Almighty! Someone has sent me a bowel movement!" (Divine, as Babs Johnson in Pink Flamingos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydepark Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 And I think I'll go with the gold...cream washes me out."Oh my God Almighty! Someone has sent me a bowel movement!" (Divine, as Babs Johnson in Pink Flamingos) Bridget, Victoria and Tammy Fay give God a bad name ...or is that give love a bad name? Sickos to the right of me sickos to the left. They are great actresses..Divas in their own minds...give your money to these people and their ministry take a good look they are wearing a lot of it...l Just proves there is enough greed to go around and it doesn't stop at the church doors. It makes good christian, hard working people look sad and dumb for surporting these money grubbers...These people hurt good people trying to do the right thing .....in a world where not much value is placed on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I was thinking about the $100 cover and the uniformity of the "dress code". My guess is that she will show up in her "signature" Fuscia color,on some monstrousity of a dress, to stand out like a turd in a punch bowl, seems befitting to someone who is so deserving. She'll have a couple of the Deacons peel her some grapes as she sits on her throne whilst 14yr. old vietnamese boys wave palm branches as fans to cool her off, wearing 5 carat diamond rings can wear a gal out you know.Velvet, you may very well not be getting her a gift, and for THAT, I applaud you, but please don't insult my or anyone else's intelligence on this forum by acting like this woman is anything more than a wolf in sheep's clothing. Maybe she has come accustomed to a certain lifestyle, but if her flock just keeps on giving without questioning why in the world she needs these gifts from them to support her lifestyle, then you are all nothing but enablers to her. All my friends make plenty of money, I am only 35 yrs. young, I would never DREAM of asking any of them for such extravagant items. I am not gonna ask someone to get me even an Ipod for my birthday,fact of the matter is that I haven't asked or been asked what I want for my Birthday since I was about 25, unless it's my wife or mother, I am not gonna go ask my boss Danny, and I guarantee he and I are alot closer than this woman is with alot of people in her congregation. Danny and I are like brothers, not co-workers, and I'm not asking him for a thing, except maybe to go home a little early that day. You think I'm gonna ask him for a $300 item like a new carberator that I really need for my musclecar, "C'mon Danny, I'm turning 36, I'm worth it." C'mon Chief, tell you what, I would ask OPRAH, for the carb. before I would even dream of asking him. This woman should be happy with a card, a cake, and a slap on the @$$, and be told happy birthday, you made it 50 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 C'mon Chief, tell you what, I would ask OPRAH, for the carb. before I would even dream of asking him. "Because today...everyone in our audience...is getting...A NEW CARB!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riverrat Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 you forgot the pilot and the helicopter.He's BAAAACK! Just saw Jim Baker on channel 55 this AM. Same old schtick, just minus some hair and The Wicked delicate flower of the West. This morning I think he was hustling pictures of Jesus for a SOS money drive (Save our Satellite) but it looked like the Same Old S*** !! By the way, is Channel 55 The Tube the station started by Joel Osteen?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 And I think I'll go with the gold...cream washes me out."Oh my God Almighty! Someone has sent me a bowel movement!" (Divine, as Babs Johnson in Pink Flamingos) haha! and i am not so sure about the tux now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I bought her a gift certificate to TV Jewelry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VelvetJ Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I'm a pretty open minded person so yes I can say I don't know her character but I cannot put my finger on how a minister or any person for that matter, I wouldn't care if it were my sister in law for her wedding, place such items on her list? I know you may be thinking who cares if its Fucci or Gucci, but just being realistic. What kind of vibe do you expect to get from a minister asking for such things when he or she is probably already on a higher economic status than most of the people who will be giving her the gifts? I mean this in the most respectful way since I think it is great what you claim that she has done for you and many others, but I just find it quite awkward that someone of her status could be that blind.It sort of goes to what TJones said: I don't usually judge a book by its cover, but this woman has made her own bed, by ADVERTISING IT ! I have respect for the church, and I know some abuse it, but that wasn't too smart even if that wasn't her intention.WesternGulf, this will be my last post on this particular thread because no matter what I say some people's minds are already made up, so there is no point in continuing. But seriously, you don't know the facts of what is going on here. Just on a basic level lets be fair and honest about something. You don't know this woman, or anything about her or the ministry. You haven't even been to a church service. You seemed to have missed a vital point in that those gifts are NOT REQUIREMENTS. It is totally volutary. If someone chooses to give her the types of gifts she has asked for, it is TOTALLY up to them. YOU are not required to do so, nor anyone you know, so how can you try to vilify this woman because you believe it's ok for Christians to have expensive things just as long as they are not pastors? If you were a member of this church and had issue with the things this woman has, then I could understand that on a certain level. But this is someone that has no importance in your life nor anyone you know and you have taken this to a level it should not be.You said she is probably on a higher economic status than most people in the church, how do you know this? How do you know what any of the 20,000 members can afford? Did you ever consider there are a lot of people that can afford to give such gifts? Do you know how many millionaires are members of the church? Do you know how many famous recording artists are members of the church? Do you know how many professional athletes are members of the church? Do you know what comes with that $100 ticket? Do you know if she will recieve gifts that are NOT from those places like every other birthday she has had? Dude there is just too much that you just don't know.I will say, I have actually been shaken by this thread, as well as by the thread on the other website that was started about her. No Christian is perfect and I have made judgments about people and things that I knew nothing about as well. Maybe this whole thing was a message for me to be more conscious of myself, because I have just watched folk unfairly and wrongly judge people that I know first hand are good people, without any facts whatsoever and have created situations where they even have people around the country who had never even heard of this woman before now, do the same. It is so funny because I just had a conversation about prejudice without all of the facts with a co-worker on yesterday morning. Then I come to this website and what do I see? Oh yeah, I've got the message.I encourage everyone to try to at least attend a service. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidtownCoog Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 You seemed to have missed a vital point in that those gifts are NOT REQUIREMENTS. It is totally volutary.Were you born yesterday?It's common knowledge you don't tell people what to get you for your birthday.Unless, of course, you are a selfish self-centered arse like Dr. Bridgete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 "Because today...everyone in our audience...is getting...A NEW CARB!" , where can I get tickets to THAT show. Bring on the Holleys ! Velvet, lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. If Mrs. Olsteen, of Lakewood Church, put on her website that her 35th birthday was coming up, and that "monetary gifts, and Louis Vitton bags would be appreciated" how would you interpret that ? I assure you I myself am gonna call her out also. I have debated whether to point this little website of Dr. Hilliard's out to Channel 2 and VH1's "WEBJunk 20". I think it would be a perfect story for both. Velvet, you are probably right, I'm sure that preacher woman gives Louis Vitton bags to everyone in the congregation when it is THEIR birthday, did you like yours ? I guess it kinda boils down to the old proverb of "ask and ye shall receive !" HALLELUIAH BROTHER ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talbot Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 it may be voluntary to get her a gift, but with a person like her and how that invitation was, if you don't buy me one of these gifts then don't even bother coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesternGulf Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 WesternGulf, this will be my last post on this particular thread because no matter what I say some people's minds are already made up, so there is no point in continuing. But seriously, you don't know the facts of what is going on here. Just on a basic level lets be fair and honest about something. You don't know this woman, or anything about her or the ministry. You haven't even been to a church service. You seemed to have missed a vital point in that those gifts are NOT REQUIREMENTS. It is totally volutary. If someone chooses to give her the types of gifts she has asked for, it is TOTALLY up to them. YOU are not required to do so, nor anyone you know, so how can you try to vilify this woman because you believe it's ok for Christians to have expensive things just as long as they are not pastors? If you were a member of this church and had issue with the things this woman has, then I could understand that on a certain level. But this is someone that has no importance in your life nor anyone you know and you have taken this to a level it should not be.You said she is probably on a higher economic status than most people in the church, how do you know this? How do you know what any of the 20,000 members can afford? Did you ever consider there are a lot of people that can afford to give such gifts? Do you know how many millionaires are members of the church? Do you know how many famous recording artists are members of the church? Do you know how many professional athletes are members of the church? Do you know what comes with that $100 ticket? Do you know if she will recieve gifts that are NOT from those places like every other birthday she has had? Dude there is just too much that you just don't know.I will say, I have actually been shaken by this thread, as well as by the thread on the other website that was started about her. No Christian is perfect and I have made judgments about people and things that I knew nothing about as well. Maybe this whole thing was a message for me to be more conscious of myself, because I have just watched folk unfairly and wrongly judge people that I know first hand are good people, without any facts whatsoever and have created situations where they even have people around the country who had never even heard of this woman before now, do the same. It is so funny because I just had a conversation about prejudice without all of the facts with a co-worker on yesterday morning. Then I come to this website and what do I see? Oh yeah, I've got the message.I encourage everyone to try to at least attend a service. Peace.Point well taken Velvet but please do not get the idea that I am saying she does not need to have expensive things because she is a pastor. I am just having a tough time sinking in the fact that she does not see what sort of vibe she is going to get when her wish list is nothing but monetary gifts, louis, chanel, saks, etc? Please do not think I am being a one sided person like some others have shown to be in this thread. It is just the fact that what kind of situation do you have to be in that makes it acceptable for anyone to parade their gift list with such items even if it is voluntary. I am not saying she had an agenda going on here, but what type of world do you live in, not necessarily you but people in general, to find it appropriate and for it to not take people by surprise when you are listing the things shown above? Also, I know I do not know the lady and yes I do not know anyone that I know of that attends the church, but I am sure there are people that have been going to this church for years and probably got a surprise from what she is asking for. By the way, I know I am assuming again but being realistic. Give me a pm or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ V Lawrence Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I bought her a gift certificate to TV Jewelry. Think someone will buy the minister's wife a grill for her birthday?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Think someone will buy the minister's wife a grill for her birthday?! Yeahh ! A nice Weber, or a "little smokie", perhaps something bigger, like a GrillMate with 150,000 btu. and double stove top on the right, those are sweet ! Psyche DJ !!! You are right, someone get her a grill with all different colored stones so it looks like Jolly Ranchers are all caught in her teeth ! "BLING, BLINGITY BLING" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Think someone will buy the minister's wife a grill for her birthday?! If she and her husband don't watch out...they may get grills to look out of ala Jim and Tammy! ...did Tammy actually ever do time? ...cuz that make-up IS a crime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJones Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If she and her husband don't watch out...they may get grills to look out of ala Jim and Tammy! ...did Tammy actually ever do time? ...cuz that make-up IS a crime! She didn't have to go to prison she was ordered to do community service and sent to Florida to show Clowns how to put on make-up at the Ringling Bros. College down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 WesternGulf, this will be my last post on this particular thread because no matter what I say some people's minds are already made up, so there is no point in continuing. But seriously, you don't know the facts of what is going on here. Just on a basic level lets be fair and honest about something. You don't know this woman, or anything about her or the ministry. You haven't even been to a church service. You seemed to have missed a vital point in that those gifts are NOT REQUIREMENTS. It is totally volutary. If someone chooses to give her the types of gifts she has asked for, it is TOTALLY up to them. YOU are not required to do so, nor anyone you know, so how can you try to vilify this woman because you believe it's ok for Christians to have expensive things just as long as they are not pastors? If you were a member of this church and had issue with the things this woman has, then I could understand that on a certain level. But this is someone that has no importance in your life nor anyone you know and you have taken this to a level it should not be.You said she is probably on a higher economic status than most people in the church, how do you know this? How do you know what any of the 20,000 members can afford? Did you ever consider there are a lot of people that can afford to give such gifts? Do you know how many millionaires are members of the church? Do you know how many famous recording artists are members of the church? Do you know how many professional athletes are members of the church? Do you know what comes with that $100 ticket? Do you know if she will recieve gifts that are NOT from those places like every other birthday she has had? Dude there is just too much that you just don't know.I will say, I have actually been shaken by this thread, as well as by the thread on the other website that was started about her. No Christian is perfect and I have made judgments about people and things that I knew nothing about as well. Maybe this whole thing was a message for me to be more conscious of myself, because I have just watched folk unfairly and wrongly judge people that I know first hand are good people, without any facts whatsoever and have created situations where they even have people around the country who had never even heard of this woman before now, do the same. It is so funny because I just had a conversation about prejudice without all of the facts with a co-worker on yesterday morning. Then I come to this website and what do I see? Oh yeah, I've got the message.I encourage everyone to try to at least attend a service. Peace.i know she and her husband can afford a helicopter to fly from one end of town to the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VelvetJ Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 WesternGulf and HoustonMacbro, check your PM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 >> link to chron.com article>>link to houston press articlethis whole sham is finally geting some media attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heights_yankee Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 >> link to chron.com article>>link to houston press articlethis whole sham is finally geting some media attention.Both articles are far nicer than I would have been... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted February 19, 2006 Author Share Posted February 19, 2006 Both articles are far nicer than I would have been...i know, right .... both of the articles seemed to treat this almost comically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 what do you think is going to happen if she doesn't get those things?Again, you must not loose sight of the fact this is voluntary.VelvetJ, I've been thinking about your reply for a couple of weeks, and what you're saying makes sense.This woman is not saying "You gotta buy me these things or you're going to hell." She's not begging anyone to give her expensive gifts. She's not saying that God will reward people for giving her these things. She's not pretending that these gifts will ultimately benefit the poor. In other words, there's no false pretenses.I think that what bothers people is that often to achieve Christian goals materialism, vanity and selfish desires must be sacrificed for the greater good. Rather than judging this woman for her expensive tastes (and aren't we directed not to judge?) we should reflect on our own behavior, and strive to personally do better. If you don't feel good about giving this woman expensive things, then by all means don't do so. And I assume that since these are personal gifts, and not gifts to her ministry, that they are not tax-deductable.On the other hand, we have Tom DeLay's Save-The-Poor-Little-Orphan-Children charity, which seems like a tax write-off, influence peddling and political fundraising combined with limited benefits to those who are supposed to be helped. Is it legal? Maybe. It skates right on the razor's edge. Compared with a birthday wish-list, I find his actions more morally questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 This woman is not saying "You gotta buy me these things or you're going to hell." She's not saying that God will reward people for giving her these things. i think she is saying that (passive-aggressive, of course). "Before making your pledge consider the spiritual law of sowing and reaping," Hilliard writes in the church newsletter. "Jesus taught that 'he who sows sparingly will only reap sparingly, but he who sows bountifully will reap bountifully.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeebus Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 "Before making your pledge consider the spiritual law of sowing and reaping," Hilliard writes in the church newsletter. "Jesus taught that 'he who sows sparingly will only reap sparingly, but he who sows bountifully will reap bountifully.' And there are still those that deny her hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted February 24, 2006 Author Share Posted February 24, 2006 And there are still those that deny her hypocrisy. regardless of what any of us think, the dinner is sold out (or so says the website today). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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