Jump to content

How Dallas Is Getting One Over On Us


heights_yankee

Recommended Posts

I am posting this with a glimmer of hope some developer will read it....

We are having a contruction boom in Houston as far as my relatively uninformed eye can see. There are buildings going up everywhere and you know what? They stink! They all look the same.

Everytime I open a design magazine (and, granted, I read modern design mags) there is a story about some cool new highrise or townhome project or single fam re-do in DALLAS that people are raving about. They're getting spreads and huge amounts of coverage that just scream "wow- look how great and progressive and urban DALLAS is..." C'mon poeple, we all know this is a load of crap!!! I lived in Big D for 6 years. It's terrible... Yet it continues to outshine Houston in the national conscience. :angry2:

There is a gigantic complex of apartments going up on Allen Pkwy, right behind that cool warehouse that I would buy if I won the lottery. ^_^ Anyway, they've started the exterior finish. Faux stucco. Ugh! There is so much potential every time a new complex goes up, but everytime it's the same, generic crap.

Is there anything we can do?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You lived in Dallas. Dallas is leading Texas in urban development right now. The thing is, developers in Houston spend their dough building these blocks of three story townhomes with huge driveways like there is no other alternative in urban development and unfortunately this is what we are booming with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You lived in Dallas. Dallas is leading Texas in urban development right now. The thing is, developers in Houston spend their dough building these blocks of three story townhomes with huge driveways like there is no other alternative in urban development and unfortunately this is what we are booming with.

That's what I'm saying. How can we change the trend here?

Dallas was getting in to this urban renewal thing when I left (only about 4 years ago), but I never could have imagined the direction it ended up taking...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's what I'm saying. How can we change the trend here?

There are no guidelines on what developers can build here. That is why you see that horrendous feaux stucco three story townhome with nothing but asphalt in the forefront in the middle of historic Sixth Ward.

You tell me how we can change the trend. You live in one of the few neighborhoods that actually looks zoned in the city and there are a couple of homes here and there where I think what is that doing here, but for the most part it is organized, until you get to the commercial areas where you see suburban CVS stores and the new strip center where SUBWAY is when you first enter the neighborhood.

My question is, what does it take to build a sea of asphalt away from the street? I'm sure some of these developers have taken a class as to how to build in urban areas. The only commercial street that looks decent in Houston is Gray before you get to Dunlavy, and the only reason that is, because not nearly as much new develoment has happened but they use what they already have such as old brick bungalows for businesses. There is one business that has gone up lately on Gray that gets Kudos from me which is that modern green and silver building where they hid parkng in the back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take a drive to the southern sector of Dallas.

The tale of two cities. It's not all nirvana by any means.

No major metro area is without its faults. Houston, Dallas, NYC, Boston, Chicago, wherever... The point is Dallas is really making strides in it's developement. The most culturally void major city on the country is giving itself character! That's where they are making Houston just look sad....

Plus, there are pockets in South Dallas (Oak Cliff) that have seen a lot of progress over the years. You still have to drive through the ghetto to get there, but they have seen some amazing things done with Dallas' gorgeous old houses. Even the Fair Park area is developing.

I'm not defending Dallas. I was very happy to get the hell out. I just want Houston to live up to all its potential and knock Dallas down a few more pegs...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, I am really interested in what Dallas does to promote there image because the things posted here by some pro Dallas individuals is not the way Dallas is when I'm there, (about every two weeks). That's not to say that Uptown Dallas doesn't have neat things happening, but it does mean that it is not the poster child of urbanity in Texas as some like to portray it.

Houston, although not a poster child of urbanity herself, is doing wonderfull things in regards to enhancing the urban invironment. In fact I find Houston to be far more urban than Dallas and I think most informed people would tell you the same thing.

All of that being said, I think Houston does have some issues with what it puts up sometimes. For instance the Memorial City area that's going up is a group of green glassed boxes which to me is puzzling considering the potential of the area.

All in all Houston and Dallas are very similar with Houston just being a bigger version. As I said above I'm in Big D all the time and it's not like there setting the world on fire with there brilliant planning and architecture.

If you want to see a comparably sized city that's doing something with there building designs, look at Atlanta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am a native Houstonian and a current Dallas resident. I am in Houston ever other week for business and usually end up staying with my parents or at a hotel somewhere in town. While Houston has some incredible urban villages, Dallas is really taking this trend and moving with it. You have Uptown, but even within Uptown, you have West Village. Just north of this is Knox/Henderson. Then you have Mockingbird Station and the growth sprouting up around this area. And just the past weekend, the demolish of a 10 story office building was completed. The new area (across from Nothpark) is going to house homes, condos, stores and and a 4 star hotel. The one thing to notice about this is one thing: rail. Along the rail corridor you are seeing development, even in suburban Plano. The wonderul thing about this is that it is like a city within a city. You can shop, eat and sleep within one area. I am not bashing Houston by any means, Houston is the city of my birth and will always be my home. I do believe that Houston should get more bold and creative. Midtown in great, but nothing like Uptown. When friends from Houston come to visit me, they are always commenting about how Houston needs something like this. These are are not people from Katy, but people that shop at Kuhl Linscomb. In the end, this is not city against city, this is about cities defining themselves and being individual. Why be other LA, SF or Chicago?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am posting this with a glimmer of hope some developer will read it....

We are having a contruction boom in Houston as far as my relatively uninformed eye can see. There are buildings going up everywhere and you know what? They stink! They all look the same.

Everytime I open a design magazine (and, granted, I read modern design mags) there is a story about some cool new highrise or townhome project or single fam re-do in DALLAS that people are raving about. They're getting spreads and huge amounts of coverage that just scream "wow- look how great and progressive and urban DALLAS is..." C'mon poeple, we all know this is a load of crap!!! I lived in Big D for 6 years. It's terrible... Yet it continues to outshine Houston in the national conscience. :angry2:

There is a gigantic complex of apartments going up on Allen Pkwy, right behind that cool warehouse that I would buy if I won the lottery. ^_^ Anyway, they've started the exterior finish. Faux stucco. Ugh! There is so much potential every time a new complex goes up, but everytime it's the same, generic crap.

Is there anything we can do?

There are some different looking townhomes going up around town. There are a set on Nolda St. over off of Wash/I-10 which have a tangerine/cream color scheme which really pops out against the other earth-toned townhomes surrounding it. You either love 'em or hate 'em, which is probably why the initial flush in Houston (the past 10 years) have been conservatively styled. There are also some in the Warehouse District, Urban Living I think, with some bold lines.

I think we'll move past the bland look. Styles don't last long and everything becomes dated eventually and I think the next wave will feature a "modern" look, which I'm guessing will be bolder and have more striking architecture. Once the builders see that they're selling, then the mass shift will be on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heh.. Just stick around for a bit longer.

Has anyone here even seen the proposed uber urban villages for Houston?

Just a few of them:

The Pavillions

WestCreek

Town&Country

MemorialCityMall

Boulevard Place

That new thingy on Kirby...

That new thingy in River Oaks...

Old HISD property

Proposed Rice Village development

I am sure I missed some, but, you get the idea...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am a native Houstonian and a current Dallas resident. I am in Houston ever other week for business and usually end up staying with my parents or at a hotel somewhere in town. While Houston has some incredible urban villages, Dallas is really taking this trend and moving with it. You have Uptown, but even within Uptown, you have West Village. Just north of this is Knox/Henderson. Then you have Mockingbird Station and the growth sprouting up around this area. And just the past weekend, the demolish of a 10 story office building was completed. The new area (across from Nothpark) is going to house homes, condos, stores and and a 4 star hotel. The one thing to notice about this is one thing: rail. Along the rail corridor you are seeing development, even in suburban Plano. The wonderul thing about this is that it is like a city within a city. You can shop, eat and sleep within one area. I am not bashing Houston by any means, Houston is the city of my birth and will always be my home. I do believe that Houston should get more bold and creative. Midtown in great, but nothing like Uptown. When friends from Houston come to visit me, they are always commenting about how Houston needs something like this. These are are not people from Katy, but people that shop at Kuhl Linscomb. In the end, this is not city against city, this is about cities defining themselves and being individual. Why be other LA, SF or Chicago?

Your right, Houston has got to get it's stuff together, it's simply to far behind the Big D in developement. Oh poor Houston with it's measly 24 million square feet of highrises in Uptown alone, (by the way, that's only 4.5 million short of Downtown Dallas) and which houses 300,000 people daily.

Oh poor Houston which falls oh so short in it's measly rail system, which by the way blows Big D's DART out of the water in per capita ridership.

Oh poor Houston with it's tiny stadium system (about 300,000 seats within 7 miles of each other) and state of the art Football stadium.

Oh poor Houston with it's Main Street revitalization and huge downtown nightlife scene, which will only be hurt :huh: by the Houston Pavillions which is also on Main.

Oh poor Houston with it's horrible residential highrise boom.

Oh poor Houston with it's 93 foriegn consulates.

Oh poor Houston with it's 6th largest port in the world.

Oh poor Houston with the largest and most prominent medical center in the world.

Oh poor Houston with it's Memorial City, Rice Village, Town and Country, Boulevard Place, Astrodome, etc developements.

Oh poor unurban Houston.

By the way, When your Dallas friends come down and complain about how far behind we are, where do you take them?

All sarcasm aside, I am continuously blown away at how Dallasites blow there city completely out of proportion in regards to Houston.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK I am really trying to figure this out but are we just extremely bias because this is home?

Why would someone say Houston feels so much more urban than Dallas when mixed use is a new concept in Houston, i.e. we always mention Post Midtown, when Dallas has experienced TODS, and mixed use villages with several properties just like Post Midtown in their core. Why would we say we are so much more urban when Dallas has 45 miles of light rail and commuter rail out to Fort Worth and plans have been approved to double the mileage and even have connections to their airport, while we have the same amount of rail as Galveston, a city that does not even represent 3% of our population, why do we claim we are so much more urban when we cannot force a CVS under new construction, but rather take up a whole block with a sea of parking next to our Post Midtown that we rep so much, why are we so much more urban when our so called high rise residential boom consist of nothing but towers in the park that do absolutley nothing for urban streetlife, why do we claim we are so much urban when architects have came into Dallas and surfaced a plan to the public how they will bury their freeways and all we have is a Houston visionary who lives in the Heights that offered up a "plan", what a novelty concept by the way, because of his or her fears of expansions destroying old neighborhoods that butt I-45? The Village you ask? 19th street you ask? These places are a dime a dozen in Dallas, not the suburbs, but Dallas.

I could go on and on but believe me, some are fooling no one but themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK I am really trying to figure this out but are we just extremely bias because this is home?

Why would someone say Houston feels so much more urban than Dallas when mixed use is a new concept in Houston, i.e. we always mention Post Midtown, when Dallas has experienced TODS, and mixed use villages with several properties just like Post Midtown in their core. Why would we say we are so much more urban when Dallas has 45 miles of light rail and commuter rail out to Fort Worth and plans have been approved to double the mileage and even have connections to their airport, while we have the same amount of rail as Galveston, a city that does not even represent 3% of our population, why do we claim we are so much more urban when we cannot force a CVS under new construction, but rather take up a whole block with a sea of parking next to our Post Midtown that we rep so much, why are we so much more urban when our so called high rise residential boom consist of nothing but towers in the park that do absolutley nothing for urban streetlife, why do we claim we are so much urban when architects have came into Dallas and surfaced a plan to the public how they will bury their freeways and all we have is a Houston visionary who lives in the Heights that offered up a "plan", what a novelty concept by the way, because of his or her fears of expansions destroying old neighborhoods that butt I-45? The Village you ask? 19th street you ask? These places are a dime a dozen in Dallas, not the suburbs, but Dallas.

I could go on and on but believe me, some are fooling no one but themselves.

Call me stupid but I don't understand this post.

Now, I for one believe that Houston is what it is, a free spirited town with few rules. Are there some unfortunate things that come with that attitude? Of course. There are also wonderful world class things that come from this mind set, some of which have been mentioned above. There are also wonderful people that come out of this mindset which is why most that are fairly traveled comment on how friendly people are here (i being one of them).

Houston is a very unique place, unlike any city I've lived in and I don't want us to follow what other cities deem important. Don't misunderstand I am not for dumb growth which Houston has it's share of, but I'm also not for changing the culture of the city just to keep up with the Jones's.

You mention how little urbanity Houston has. I'm curious what you consider urban other than something mixed use? I for one determine urban to mean "big city feel", like a drive through the village to herman park to the med center etc. To me, Houston feels much bigger and more urban (inner loop).

As mentioned earlier, I'm in Dallas alot and I'm still baffled as to what all of you are talking about in respect to this great urbaness of Dallas so please explain. By the way I have recently been to DT, UT, MT and Turtle Creek, so anything beyond these places will suffice.

Dallas is a fine city with some great plans but if it came down to brass tax and someone wanted to debate the greatness of the two aforementioned cities then I would pick Houston hands down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Call me stupid but I don't understand this post.

OK, but the feeling is mutual. Seriously. If Houston was Phoenix, I have a feeling that you would defend it as this underrated urban jewel. :wacko:

I respect you thoughts and opinions but your answer was too predictable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your right, Houston has got to get it's stuff together, it's simply to far behind the Big D in developement. Oh poor Houston with it's measly 24 million square feet of highrises in Uptown alone, (by the way, that's only 4.5 million short of Downtown Dallas) and which houses 300,000 people daily.

Oh poor Houston which falls oh so short in it's measly rail system, which by the way blows Big D's DART out of the water in per capita ridership.

Oh poor Houston with it's tiny stadium system (about 300,000 seats within 7 miles of each other) and state of the art Football stadium.

Oh poor Houston with it's Main Street revitalization and huge downtown nightlife scene, which will only be hurt :huh: by the Houston Pavillions which is also on Main.

Oh poor Houston with it's horrible residential highrise boom.

Oh poor Houston with it's 93 foriegn consulates.

Oh poor Houston with it's 6th largest port in the world.

Oh poor Houston with the largest and most prominent medical center in the world.

Oh poor Houston with it's Memorial City, Rice Village, Town and Country, Boulevard Place, Astrodome, etc developements.

Oh poor unurban Houston.

By the way, When your Dallas friends come down and complain about how far behind we are, where do you take them?

All sarcasm aside, I am continuously blown away at how Dallasites blow there city completely out of proportion in regards to Houston.

Man, are you serious?

Seems like I have read that response about 50 times on this board over the past 3 years. Anytime, someone says anything good about Dallas that is the comeback....always. Should I, being from Dallas, say that we have more superbowls? NO, because it does not matter....

Give Dallas props where it is deserved like Houston does when it is deserved. Nobody says that the entire city of Dallas is an oasis, because it is not.....neither is Houston!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there were several predictable posts on this thread, starting with....

...Oh, never mind. But, it would help when talking about building styles that some of you state your opinions as such, not that they are fact. When stated as fact, you invite a barrage of criticism from others, who invariably will give their own opinions, disguised as fact.

Worse than that, to attempt to nuance the styles of townhomes in two cities in the same state, 240 miles apart, inhabited by the same types of people, is downright COMICAL. Trust me, faux stucco SUCKS, no matter which world class burg you put it in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, but the feeling is mutual. Seriously. If Houston was Phoenix, I have a feeling that you would defend it as this underrated urban jewel. :wacko:

I respect you thoughts and opinions but your answer was too predictable.

To call me biased as you did above would be correct, but not in the context you put it in. I do not make my statements blindly, but by personal experience. Further, I am not here to just defend Houston but to attempt to find out why this city to the North continues to think it hung the moon. I've never seen anything like it and I've lived in a few cities in my time. I've also never seen a city so overinflate it's standing in the Texas community as does Dallas. Just an observation.

Now Back to my bias. Again I admit it, why wouldn't I ? I chose to live here out of four cities (Houston, Dallas, Phoenix ironicaly enough, and St Louis) and found this city to be a great place in which to live. As time moved on I found myself growing very fond of this stupidly developed city and eventually found myself defending her as I am now. I don't know maybe it's because Houston reminds me of LA so much, which is home for me.

I guess all in all I don't get why you come across as if Houston is a joke comparitively, as it is certainly not and in fact surpasses the Big D in many respects. Houston has had much more development than Dallas over the years, and just because Dallas is hot right now doesn't mean Houston is falling. In fact Houston's still far ahead of the curve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, are you serious?

Seems like I have read that response about 50 times on this board over the past 3 years. Anytime, someone says anything good about Dallas that is the comeback....always. Should I, being from Dallas, say that we have more superbowls? NO, because it does not matter....

Give Dallas props where it is deserved like Houston does when it is deserved. Nobody says that the entire city of Dallas is an oasis, because it is not.....neither is Houston!

You know after reading your response I have to concede.

That being said I don't feel like it's me or most others who get there defenses up when this Dallas crap starts. It just seems like "some" Dallas posters think there you know what doesn't stink and that there the crowned jewel of Texas and I get sick of it. Man I think it's great that a city like Dallas is thriving but sometimes it seems as if some posters are goading Houstonians.

I love cities and how different many of them are, Dallas included. In fact I enjoy driving through Dallas when I'm there. In other words I don't dislike the city itself I just can't stand the attitude of some Dallasites and that's the only city in the country I feel that way about.

There I said it so you can go on hatin me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know after reading your response I have to concede.

That being said I don't feel like it's me or most others who get there defenses up when this Dallas crap starts. It just seems like "some" Dallas posters think there you know what doesn't stink and that there the crowned jewel of Texas and I get sick of it. Man I think it's great that a city like Dallas is thriving but sometimes it seems as if some posters are goading Houstonians.

I love cities and how different many of them are, Dallas included. In fact I enjoy driving through Dallas when I'm there. In other words I don't dislike the city itself I just can't stand the attitude of some Dallasites and that's the only city in the country I feel that way about.

There I said it so you can go on hatin me.

Sure, there are personalities as you described, but those exist everywhere.

Dallas, it's leaders, it's publications, businesses, and residents are proud of the city and naturally boast about things that excite them. This is true of Denver, Atlanta, St Louis, Chicago, New Orleans, Nashville, and Houston (you get my point).

So the question then becomes, why is that disgust and hate only displayed when something refers to Dallas? Also, how does this exact topic always always emerge? It is natural to have an intra-state rivalry, but man, Dallas and Houston should be pulling for each other more often than not IMO, residents included.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That being said I don't feel like it's me or most others who get there defenses up when this Dallas crap starts. It just seems like "some" Dallas posters think there you know what doesn't stink and that there the crowned jewel of Texas and I get sick of it.

And there are many Houstonites that believe Houston is the crown jewel of Texas. Any many people from Austin who think the same thing too. I think if you don't think you live in the best city in Texas you should move. In the same breath, because you think you're in the best city, it doesn't mean other cities don't do things better than your city. I can think of lots of things that Houston does better than Dallas.

I do notice one thing about forumers, which is a generalization so it isn't worth much. When Dallas (really DFW) complains about Houston, its about the city. Generally impersonal complaints about the weather, traffic, industry etc.. When Houston forumers complain about Dallas, its the people (how every resident is "plastic" etc..) I don't know what that means, or if its just a byproduct of my limited sample set.

Jason

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sure, there are personalities as you described, but those exist everywhere.

Dallas, it's leaders, it's publications, businesses, and residents are proud of the city and naturally boast about things that excite them. This is true of Denver, Atlanta, St Louis, Chicago, New Orleans, Nashville, and Houston (you get my point).

So the question then becomes, why is that disgust and hate only displayed when something refers to Dallas? Also, how does this exact topic always always emerge? It is natural to have an intra-state rivalry, but man, Dallas and Houston should be pulling for each other more often than not IMO, residents included.

I am not talking about one being proud of his city my friend, I'm talking about an attitude, one of which Dallas is famous for. I'm not the first person to notice this.

As far as the "disgust and Hate" you refer to, it was already addressed by me above. Let me reiterate, I have no hate or disgust for the city of Dallas, in fact I've enjoyed many a weekend there, so lets eliminate that from the conversation. Also I don't think the cities should be pulling for each other, there competing cities. Being a sports nut I love rivalries and I think there healthy. They invigorate passion and love for a city or a team. The thing I'm talking about though goes beyond a rivalry imo and moves into something else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...