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Park 8 (Not Park 8ight, or the warehouse complex at beltway 8 & I-45)


Boris

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Parton my lanuage, but holy ____! This project is really going to uplift Chinatown. Plus, I love the name "Park 8 Land f Oz."

http://www.chinatownmap.com/map.htm

I know Beltway 8 and Bellaire are two sites with popular Asian-influenced businesses, but I thought the official ChinaTown Houston was the area across the freeway from the GRB Convention Center. If you look on this official website linked above, you'll see THREE official Chinatowns on this map.

Now this is from the same website...

http://www.chinatownmap.com/aboutus.htm

...Says here that all of Bellaire between HWY 6 and Beltway 8 is the new official Chinatown.

Don't get me wrong; this will be a GREAT project for Houston, and an excelent project for Chinatown. (I haven't been to Houston since Super Bowl '04). Please update me. I was never aware that the Chinatown beside downtown no longer is the official Chinatown Houston. And if it still is, why do I NEVER hear of any major developments like Park8 there, and why has Bellaire been more of a focal point for Chinese-American businesses than the original location by downtown?

Only reason why I ask that is because I don't understand why we should even call the downtown location Chinatown anymore if Bellaire is a much more successful location. After Park8 is complete, why wouldn't Bellaire be official?

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You have two different entities claiming certain areas as "Chinatown": a local community group, and the City of Houston. I would think a local community group of Chinese would know better where "Chinatown" is, whether its official or not.

Edited by Jeebus
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You have two different entities claiming certain areas as "Chinatown": a local community group, and the City of Houston. I would think a local community group of Chinese would know better where "Chinatown" is, whether its official or not.

Is that just a Houston thing, or is that common in other cities as well? Just sounds wierd promotion-wise. Kinda like having two downtowns. If someone out of town wants to go to Chinatown Houston, (and we have had people ask on HAIF in the past), where in the world would they go? The local community group Chinatown (which is more high-class), or the official City Of Houston sponsored Chinatown? Doesn't Bellaire deserve out-of-town notice?

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It will take that community group going to city-council and explaining the situation before a change will occur. Will they do it? I don't know. Is this how it is in other cities? No Clue. However, if you took a random poll on the streets of Houston, I would think that most people would tell you Houston's Chinatown is infact on Bellaire - whether its officially recognized or not.

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It is definitely Oriental out there, but I doubt that anyone (that lives within the loop) would use "Chinatown" to describe any other area of town other than the area just east of downtown. I'm not saying that it matters to me personally, but if you are using the moniker as a tourist interest, which we most certainly are, the Bellaire(ish) area will just have to deal with it.

I concede that there are almost no cool destinations in Chinatown except The Meridian and that big Chinese buffet, but it is nice to have a historical Chinatown near downtown as opposed to way the heck outside the loop were nothing matters.

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..it is nice to have a historical Chinatown near downtown as opposed to way the heck outside the loop were nothing matters.

I guess it doesn't matter whether there is actually anything Chinese left about Chinatown, as long as we keep the cool name in a defunct neighborhood that within ten years will demographically be upper middle-class loft & townhome owners.

I wonder how many Asians here in Houston care that there used to be a Chinatown downtown? I could understand the fight for a historical Chinatown or Asian market downtown if it was led by the Asian community. However, at the rate of constuction out there on Bellaire, I don't think they (Asian investors, realtors, contractors, and residents) really care.

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Can some one clear up where this development is? Is it a Westchase project or a New Chinatown project. I'm not too familiar with this side of town. According to the website it is Chinatown's, but the the articles about Westchase claim it as a Westchase project.

I think they should rumble for it......my money is on Chinatown :ph34r:

Edited by Houstonian in Iraq
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I think they should rumble for it......my money is on Chinatown :ph34r:

:lol:

The furtherest south that I thought Westchase went was just north of Bellaire Blvd to snag the Halliburton complex. Maybe the Westchase Development District is going to expand further south to snag this as well?

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I guess it doesn't matter whether there is actually anything Chinese left about Chinatown, as long as we keep the cool name in a defunct neighborhood that within ten years will demographically be upper middle-class loft & townhome owners.

You read my posted opinion accurately. Should it matter? Perhaps in 10 years no one will call it Chinatown. It is not like either area of town has legal rights to the name.

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  • 4 months later...
I guess it doesn't matter whether there is actually anything Chinese left about Chinatown, as long as we keep the cool name in a defunct neighborhood that within ten years will demographically be upper middle-class loft & townhome owners.

I wonder how many Asians here in Houston care that there used to be a Chinatown downtown? I could understand the fight for a historical Chinatown or Asian market downtown if it was led by the Asian community. However, at the rate of constuction out there on Bellaire, I don't think they (Asian investors, realtors, contractors, and residents) really care.

Its the older generation of Chinese & Vietnamese immigrants in Houston, the ones that have been here for decades already, raised their kids here whom have kids of their own, that keep what little is left of Old Chinatown alive. You would be suprised at just how many of the younger generations don't even know such an area even exists in downtown, its really pathetic.

With property being so much cheaper than anything near downtown, most Asian business owners choose to relocate to the far Southwest areas of Bellaire & beyond where everything is booming. Its also doesn't help that Old Chinatown is seperated from downtown by 59.

Edited by Metro Matt
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  • 1 month later...
To build a garage, you are looking at +/- $10,000 a spot :o

Think of how much more retail you can charge rent for, most shopping center don't charge for parking, especially in Houston. I am sure the payback is many years, but if they are building soemthing of good quality and is permanent, it should not matter.

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Think of how much more retail you can charge rent for, most shopping center don't charge for parking, especially in Houston. I am sure the payback is many years, but if they are building soemthing of good quality and is permanent, it should not matter.

let me start by saying retail is not my specialty, so im sorta talking out of my rear.

the village can get away with it because of their boutiqe-like setting. also, i think it's only $1.

parking garage construction prices have blown through the roof since then. today, i bet it would cost $5 - $10 :o no one in houston is going to pay that much, unless it comes with a valet stand.

in regards to passing it off to the tenant, again, i dont see how economically feasibile it would be. however, this would be better answered by someone other than me :P

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Parking garage construction prices have blown through the roof since then.

Hence, the refence to the long payback.

More retail equals more retail space

More retail space equals more choices for shoppers

More choices for shoppers attracts more shoppers

More shoppers need more parking spots

More parking spots can be achieved with more garages

More garages equal happy shoppers

Happy shoppers spend more money

More money equals happy tenants

Happy tenants equal lease renewals

Lease renewals equal happy owners

Happy owner raise leases!

See it is the circle of Life! :lol:

Edited by Pumapayam
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Hence, the refence to the long payback.

More retail equals more retail space

More retail space equals more choices for shoppers

More choices for shoppers attracts more shoppers

More shoppers need more parking spots

More parking spots can be achieved with more garages

More garages equal happy shoppers

Happy shoppers spend more money

More money equals happy tenants

Happy tenants equal lease renewals

Lease renewals equal happy owners

Happy owner raise leases!

See it is the circle of Life! :lol:

if life were so easy, you would be absolutely correct. so say it pays off 30 years down the road. how is the current owner going to justify that on a sale and recoop that investment only 2 or 3 years down the road? how is he going to convince a lender, under the same premise, to loan him the money today?

in theory and on paper are two completely different things ;)

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how is the current owner going to justify that on a sale and recoop that investment only 2 or 3 years down the road? how is he going to convince a lender, under the same premise, to loan him the money today?

Don't judge me! :D You know I am right! Case closed!

judge_judy_image.jpg

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Hence, the refence to the long payback.

More retail equals more retail space

More retail space equals more choices for shoppers

More choices for shoppers attracts more shoppers

More shoppers need more parking spots

More parking spots can be achieved with more garages

More garages equal happy shoppers

Happy shoppers spend more money

More money equals happy tenants

Happy tenants equal lease renewals

Lease renewals equal happy owners

Happy owner raise leases!

See it is the circle of Life! :lol:

Not quite. More retail space doesn't mean that there are any more choices for shoppers until tenants lease the space. Prospective tenants have a lot of choices, and in order to remain competitive with shopping centers down the street, rental rates will be somewhat constrained. Bear in mind that this place doesn't have the best demographics supporting it and isn't going to draw tenants like those in Town & Country or Rice Village that can even afford to pay those kinds of rental rates.

They've actually done a pretty good job already of cramming retail onto their site. I think that they've got precisely what they need. It kind of looks like a downscale version of Uptown Park...which has some of the highest rental rates around without a garage.

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But it does not make it right, they should learn from Highland Village!

The site isn't along Westheimer or inside the Loop. It isn't down the street from the Galleria. Its trade area doesn't include River Oaks, Afton Oaks, West U, Montrose, etc.

What's "right" is defined by three factors: investors, prospective tenants, and competitors.

Parking garages are pretty normal in Westchase and along Eldridge. There isn't a lot of room for big lots in west Houston.

Look at the master plan. This isn't a big lot.

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let me start by saying retail is not my specialty, so im sorta talking out of my rear.

the village can get away with it because of their boutiqe-like setting. also, i think it's only $1.

parking garage construction prices have blown through the roof since then. today, i bet it would cost $5 - $10 :o no one in houston is going to pay that much, unless it comes with a valet stand.

in regards to passing it off to the tenant, again, i dont see how economically feasibile it would be. however, this would be better answered by someone other than me :P

There are three big office/ condo / hotel buildings in this development. I would assume the parking goes along witht those development. The ground parking is for retail. This seems like an uptown type development to me just out on the Beltway. There is no way these buildings can survive without garage parking. It is just the cost of doing business for these developers.

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There are three big office/ condo / hotel buildings in this development. I would assume the parking goes along witht those development. The ground parking is for retail. This seems like an uptown type development to me just out on the Beltway. There is no way these buildings can survive without garage parking. It is just the cost of doing business for these developers.

Yeah, if you look at their website, it looks like each tower gets its own parking garage. The surface stuff is just for retail.

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Each tower has its own garage, plus some surface parking for retail.

Well I am glad we all agree. Lets move on. :P

Any ideas what the towers (for a lack of a better word) will be. Three office buildings? I would think so, but there is not a pent up demand for that much office space to come online at once. Maybe the project is phased and the plan is to build a building at a time.

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  • 1 month later...

The condos will be zoned to schools in the Alief Independent School District:

(I figured this out through the map of Park8 and the location of the HEB)

Zoned schools include:

* Chambers Elementary School (K-4) - http://www.alief.isd.tenet.edu/chambers/Ch.../chambintro.htm

* Owens Intermediate School (5-6) - http://www.alief.isd.tenet.edu/owens/owens/owensintro.htm

* Killough Middle School (7-8) - http://www.alief.isd.tenet.edu/killough/Ki...lloughintro.htm

High schools are randomly assigned to Alief ISD students, regardless of location.

Students may be assigned to:

* Elsik High School ( http://www.alief.isd.tenet.edu/elsik/Elsik.../elsikintro.htm ) and Elsik Ninth Grade Center ( http://www.alief.isd.tenet.edu/elsik-ngc/E...ikhngcintro.htm )

* Hastings High School ( http://www.alief.isd.tenet.edu/hastings/ha...s/hastintro.htm ) and Hastings Ninth Grade Center ( http://www.alief.isd.tenet.edu/hastings-ng...C/hngcintro.htm )

* Taylor High School - http://www.alief.isd.tenet.edu/taylor/Intr...taylorintro.htm

If a student has an older sibling assigned to another high school, the student may request a transfer to the sibling's campus.

Edited by VicMan
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Well I am glad we all agree. Lets move on. :P

Any ideas what the towers (for a lack of a better word) will be. Three office buildings? I would think so, but there is not a pent up demand for that much office space to come online at once. Maybe the project is phased and the plan is to build a building at a time.

I think when you consider that 2nd floor space above retail centers in that area is being marketed at $210/SF, and look at the high retail rental rates in this area over the years it has always seemed like a very underestimated area with a lot of potential to me.

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  • 7 months later...

Anyone have an update on this project? I still see the sign up on the site and it looks like there is some digging off to the side. The park looks near complete. With these towers along with the Bank tower on the other side of Bellaire and the Granite Towers under construction on Richmond, the Westhcase/Chinatown skyline is developing nicely!

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This corridor from Westchase to Chinatown was predicted to become the "next Galleria" back in the early 90s, and it had gotten of to a good start until the tech bust at the turn of the century. Now things are shifting back to positive for the area. The real longterm test of how the area evolves is in its housing. A couple of new residential developments are underway and nearing completion (this includes the new development in the West Eight section), so we'll see.

OTOH, crime is still higher than what it was two years ago in the area, so that make it less marketable to some of the higher end firms that might be looking to move into the area.

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This corridor from Westchase to Chinatown was predicted to become the "next Galleria" back in the early 90s, and it had gotten of to a good start until the tech bust at the turn of the century. Now things are shifting back to positive for the area. The real longterm test of how the area evolves is in its housing. A couple of new residential developments are underway and nearing completion (this includes the new development in the West Eight section), so we'll see.

OTOH, crime is still higher than what it was two years ago in the area, so that make it less marketable to some of the higher end firms that might be looking to move into the area.

Can someone mapquest this location for us? Or at least say the biggest freeway intersections it's closest to?

Thanks

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  • The title was changed to Park 8 (Not Park 8ight, or the warehouse complex at beltway 8 & I-45)

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