Houston's Own Grand Central Station-Downtown Transit Hub

[Guest Plastic]

I was just saying we need something liek this. I just hop they put shops,resteraunts,and restrooms along wiith it.

[Guest danax]

I haven't implemented some program to allow language that isn't filtered by this board. So, as far as I know, I am abiding by board guidelines.

......... I mention this only because I am straight and though your discussion doesn't bother me, I believe your implication that you love male genitalia is specifically againt the board guidelines.

There is a language filter to catch what is deemed profanity. There is no way to filter out the things you say, ......

No, obviously there aren't any filters other than us moderators and profanity is against the guidelines, so I've gone ahead and changed your 4 examples to "bolderdash". Even using #!$ etc. is not allowed. Explicit discussion of sexual acts is also prohibited so the other example is borderline. Personal attacks are prohibited though.

I agree with those who are OK with this station being where proposed. Do we really want Amtrack, Greyhound and all the rest clogging up DT? Man, what a mess that would be. Not to mention the other Latin bus companies that will end up relocating there too.

The N. Main area needs a boost and DT will also get a boost by that area getting gentrified as the residents will spend money DT. Everyone doesn't have to live DT in order to be a part of it's economy.

[WesternGulf]

Wow. I'm guilty of a few words being thrown out there so sorry about that.

[RedScare]

"The only rationale I see for them making an intermodal this way is to unite various rail lines that are being planned, but I don't know if it does anything for urbanity for urbanity sake!"

That is exactly what the purpose is, to unite the various (commuter) rail lines, as well as facilitate transfers to other modes of transportation. It is not for urbanity's sake, though I believe they do want it to be a centerpiece.

Including airports in an intermodal facility is not feasible, due to their distance from the inner city. However, there are plans to eventually link the airports. Hobby will probably be linked first, since it is closer and can be accessed with light rail. Hopefully, IAH will get a station on a commuter line to Kingwood. The number of stops on a light rail line to IAH would make it a trip from hell.

[WesternGulf]

All in all, I think the location is great. Houston will finally be a AMTRAK friendly city rather than arriving at that crack house. The fact one could get off of AMTRAK, explore an urban neighborhood that Hardy Rail Yard hopefully will be and take light rail to what we hope will be a lively neighborhood by the name of downtown, of course this is by 2012 of course, and actually have light rail access to Houston's largest tourist attraction, which will hopefully be a lot more urban by then, the Greater Uptown area, is unheard of in Houston or even Texas for that matter.

[RedScare]

...and actually have light rail access to Houston's largest tourist attraction, which will hopefully be a lot more urban by then, the Greater Uptown area, is unheard of in Houston or even Texas for that matter.

Eventually, plans call for a light rail line from this station to the Northwest Transit Center, by way of Washington or the Heights (7th Street), so the trip to the Galleria would be considerably shorter than taking the University line. Also, the Harrisburg/Southeast line potentially could terminate here, though the map shows it running along Capital. Perhaps Harrisburg could terminate at the Intermodal, with Southeast running along Capital, servicing GRB/MinuteMaid/New Park, as well as Bayou Place and the Municipal Courts...Oh, and of course, the Shops at Houston Center.

[MidtownCoog]

Victoria Station would be a nice model to follow. Which of course is surronded by tons of neat stuff. But the inside is just like your typical airport. Looks kinda like Grand Central in Amsterdam, which also has neat stuff near by.

Grand Central in NYC bores me.

VS

VS

GCNYC

CG AMS

[WesternGulf]

Eventually, plans call for a light rail line from this station to the Northwest Transit Center, by way of Washington or the Heights (7th Street), so the trip to the Galleria would be considerably shorter than taking the University line.

Eh? How would that be quicker or for the most part more convenient? Well I can say that I have never heard of this northwest rail line so I am a little lost here. How can you connect to the Galleria with going through the Heights via Washington or 7th Street (where nimbys will be on your........)? Sorry if I am reading you wrong.

[RedScare]

Eh? How would that be quicker or for the most part more convenient? Well I can say that I have never heard of this northwest rail line so I am a little lost here. How can you connect to the Galleria with going through the Heights via Washington or 7th Street (where nimbys will be on your........)? Sorry if I am reading you wrong.

Long range plans call for light rail to go west from Downtown to the Northwest Transit Center near NW Mall. A connector line will run south to the University line along Post Oak. The western line will either run down Washington or along the old railroad tracks along 7th Street in the Heights. That track also veers Southeast and runs through the new Target Center on Sawyer.

NIMBYs are a possibility, though I live a couple of blocks from 7th, and I am all for it. I have not heard of any organized opposition to it, though it is years down the road.

As for convenience, once you exit a commuter train, you jump on the Washington line to NW Transit Center. From there, it is a couple of minutes to the Galleria on the connector line.

[WesternGulf]

Haven't plans been changed significantly for light rail? These sound like the pre BRT plans. You know the plans we have now are the ones voters did not approve and that is why there was so much controversy last year with the new routes and alternative transportation. If you look at the map on the first page, aren't those the new plans for light rail and commuter?

edit: Red Scare don't worry about me, I see what you are saying now.

[dp2]

So how can I say a few things about the station without "giving too much"

How about answering the most obvious question: With an existing rail line already passing through downtown (on the north side), why are you guys putting the station on a rail line outside of downtown and north of I-10? That makes no sense.

...well, the facility will be much more impressive that we all think it will be. The point--it's been said that this will be the METRO CEO's signature, legacy-type project. Want to see the type of things that happened? Look at EEK's stuff done for New Jersey Transit, which is where Wilson was also a director.

The project would likely be multi-level (almost has to be using the grade-separation at Main/Burnett). It could also include multiple stories of uses above the facility and could include retail/restaurant options. The park-and-ride facility obviously may be in the form of a parking garage.

Finally, look at the price tag of $150 million--isn't that nearly the price of Toyota Center? A third of Reliant Stadium? $50 million less than Houston Pavilions (25% less). Of course, some of that will include the costs of infrastructure (i.e. platforms).

Yes, but you don't want the legacy to be a misplaced white-elephant monument to missed opportunities. The facility sounds fine, it is the location that is the problem. While functionally it would work as a transfer point and mini-TOD, it would have far more potential if located within downtown somewhere on the existing rail line. I can't see planners outside of Houston (and probably most here, if they are being honest and not political) viewing the moving out of the rail line as positive or effective urban planning. Quite the opposite.

This is reminiscent of the 'visionary' idea to replace Penn Station with Madison Square Garden. Or better yet, Boston's original plan to pull the commuter trains back from North Station to transfer points further out. At the time(70's) their planners thought that transfers were no big deal, subway and light-rail were modern, commuter trains were old and passe, and downtown Boston was going to be a slick modern utopia. Luckily the proposal got shot down as the stupid idea that it was, their planners wised up, and now they are trying to extend the commuter trains through downtown. Unfortunately the failure to do this as part of the Big Dig when they had a chance has possibly made it impossible to ever get it done.

Kinda like how Metro failed to commit and get some type of rail incorporated into the Katy Freeway design. They don't have a good track record on visions or decision-making, do they?

[HeightsGuy]

Notwithstanding the arguments on whether the place is a good idea and whether the location is optimal, as far as the design goes, I would rather see a brick/stone and window design over a steel and glass structure. As much as I enjoy cutting-edge architecture, the north side of downtown does have a certain feel to it that has been reinforced with the additions of newer landmarks such as the Courthouse complex, Minutmaid Park and the UH Downtown addition. The new intermodal facility should be a landmark that blends in with that theme.

[RedScare]

How about answering the most obvious question: With an existing rail line already passing through downtown (on the north side), why are you guys putting the station on a rail line outside of downtown and north of I-10? That makes no sense.

Kinda like how Metro failed to commit and get some type of rail incorporated into the Katy Freeway design. They don't have a good track record on visions or decision-making, do they?

What rail line passes theough Downtown on the north side? If you are talking about the freight line running under UHD, this is also AmTrak's line, and the station is only on the other side of the bayou from it. Otherwise, where would you put it? Over by the jails? Yum. Farther east? That would be further away from Downtown proper than this proposed site.

BTW, METRO tried extremely hard to get ROW for rail included in the Katy expansion. John Culberson, in his infinite wisdom, shut METRO out. That was not METRO's fault.

FWIW, the site that METRO bought is 315 N. MAIN STREET. It is nowhere near as far north as the Hogan street tunnel. It actually buts up against the I-10 overpass. UHD student parking is on this site currently. It is only 1500 feet from Main and Commerce in Downtown proper. hcad.org or one of the internet maps will show you how close it is.

Here's a link to an article on the land purchase.

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories.../19/story1.html

If the I-10 overpass is moved/removed, this Station would overlook the entire Buffalo Bayou redevelopment. That would make this a destination that some are asking for, though that is not it's purpose. Knowing the exact address of the site makes me like it even more.

[WesternGulf]

The one thing I love about London is the sharp contrast in architecture in some of its areas. Wouldn't mind seeing it here or any other old areas in Houston as long as it is quality.

[RedScare]

Here's a photo I saw on another forum.

If you look closely, the site is the parking lot and the sandy area directly north of I-10. It is literally across White Oak Bayou from UHD. It is NOT next to Hardy Yards, but south of it.

[nmainguy]

What rail line passes theough Downtown on the north side? If you are talking about the freight line running under UHD, this is also AmTrak's line, and the station is only on the other side of the bayou from it. Otherwise, where would you put it? Over by the jails? Yum. Farther east? That would be further away from Downtown proper than this proposed site.

BTW, METRO tried extremely hard to get ROW for rail included in the Katy expansion. John Culberson, in his infinite wisdom, shut METRO out. That was not METRO's fault.

FWIW, the site that METRO bought is 315 N. MAIN STREET. It is nowhere near as far north as the Hogan street tunnel. It actually buts up against the I-10 overpass. UHD student parking is on this site currently. It is only 1500 feet from Main and Commerce in Downtown proper. hcad.org or one of the internet maps will show you how close it is.

Here's a link to an article on the land purchase.

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/stories.../19/story1.html

If the I-10 overpass is moved/removed, this Station would overlook the entire Buffalo Bayou redevelopment. That would make this a destination that some are asking for, though that is not it's purpose. Knowing the exact address of the site makes me like it even more.

Red:

From Metro's website: University of Houston/Downtown Campus Station of Red Line to a new Northern Intermodal Facility, located in the vicinity of Burnett Street

http://www.ridemetro.org/motion/solutions/phase2impplan.asp

If you are right about the 315 address, that would be great...might even decrease some of the grousing over it's location.

[MidtownCoog]

That's what I originally thought...

I have had my eye on this land for a long time. It's has been for sale for a while now.

[WesternGulf]

off topic: ok how do you add an avatar?

[The Great Hizzy!]

The intermodal facility's proposed location was/is influenced, in part, by METRO's desire to also run one of its commuter rail lines from Tomball/Northwest through here. I can't remember if the AMTRAK line would run through here as well or if it would run on the line right by Baker Street jail.

Another consideration for the location is its proximity to the Hardy Yard Project and how the two would, in theory, be a boon to each other. Developers would certainly benefit from this but then again, so would the North End/Near Northside community.

IMO, if you were to do an intermodal facility, you'd want to consider doing one on what's currently the Post Office Distribution center near Susquecentennial Park. You wouldn't need to reroute the AMTRAK line, though the Tomball/Northwest commuter line would need to be redesigned, and the original Washington Avenue LRT line be rekindled.

That said, I don't have a major problem with the planned Intermodal facility being incorporated into Hardy Yard as long as people follow through with the basics.

[nmainguy]

If you look closely, the site is the parking lot and the sandy area directly north of I-10. It is literally across White Oak Bayou from UHD. It is NOT next to Hardy Yards, but south of it.

Red,

If you have a key map, go to pg.493 and turn it so the pg # is at 6 o'clock [seriously].

It looks like the northern border may be Burnett. It also appears this development is actually on TOP of Hardy Yards and N. Main.

whatcha think?

[RedScare]

I see what you are saying. This piece of land is a banana shape that begins at the corner of N. Main and the I-10 overpass. It bows out to the west, behind a row of properties that front Main Street on the western side. It then narrows and fronts on Daly Place on the north end. The Daly Place frontage is 147 feet. Currently, the only part of the property fronting N. Main is the southern portion right next to I-10, about 285 feet.

Someone may correct me, but does it look to you like the Hardy Yards development actually CROSSES N. Main at its western tip? If so, the plan could be to place the intermodal along Daly Place, which would move it further North by about 800 feet. It is also likely that METRO could or would take those properties along Main Street by eminent domain, thereby giving them the enire western side of Main Street from the I-10 overpass up to Daly Place.

[nmainguy]

Red,

I blew the pic up-that northern border is clearly labeled Burnett. [don't mean to harp on that ]

Yes, the western tip of Hardy Yards does go over N. Main on top of the tunnel, but just barely.

I see what you mean about Daly.

My guess is if they do infact have all this land, they may just treat it as a blank slate, ignoring present streets-except N. Main and some of the existing road beds..

That's an architect's dream site, for sure!

Here's our High Speed train!

[houston-development]

Second, about ten years ago, all of Metro and city government got together and decided that Downtown would be their focus and its redevelopment would make or break this city. From that came the beginnings of something called Midtown, which, in my eyes has so far been a huge disappointment. What little growth has happened in Midtown has also, as I see it, come somewhat at the expense of Downtown, though some of the residential has, in fact, bolstered Downtown's revitalization.

let's see, we had enron, compaq, continental, and anderson (to name a few) go into the pooper. then years of contruction, renovations, and a light-rail system clogging and ripping up our streets. considering the growth we expected to have, yet still be where we are, i think midtown/downtown areas are doing quite well.

rome wasn't built in a day

in regards to the rail, you can chalk me up as an added "statistic". never rode the bus but have been on the rail numerous times

[RedScare]

nmain, are you saying the northern border of Hardy Yards is Burnett? If so, I agree. Hardy yards apparently owns the triangle on the west side of N. Main bordered by Main, Burnett and Daly. The top of the METRO land is across Daly from Hardy Yards.

Now, here's another twist. METRO also bought 1101 and 1115 NAYLOR, on the east side of N. Main. These 2 properties are directly south of Hardy Yards.

Looks like I'll be taking N. Main home today. I need to see this property.

[bkjones98]

Notwithstanding the arguments on whether the place is a good idea and whether the location is optimal, as far as the design goes, I would rather see a brick/stone and window design over a steel and glass structure. As much as I enjoy cutting-edge architecture, the north side of downtown does have a certain feel to it that has been reinforced with the additions of newer landmarks such as the Courthouse complex, Minutmaid Park and the UH Downtown addition. The new intermodal facility should be a landmark that blends in with that theme.

I agree 100%. As far as design, I hope that the architects consider the impact that the railroad has played in the history of Houston, and that they create a structure that does not drastically contrast with the older buildings along that side of downtown.

[Jeebus]

I agree 100%. As far as design, I hope that the architects consider the impact that the railroad has played in the history of Houston, and that they create a structure that does not drastically contrast with the older buildings along that side of downtown.

I know this is off topic, but everytime I read your posts, I hear them in Lionel Hutz's voice! Damn your avatar!

[bkjones98]

I know this is off topic, but everytime I read your posts, I hear them in Lionel Hutz's voice! Damn your avatar!

Mission Accomplished!

[nmainguy]

nmain, are you saying the northern border of Hardy Yards is Burnett? If so, I agree. Hardy yards apparently owns the triangle on the west side of N. Main bordered by Main, Burnett and Daly. The top of the METRO land is across Daly from Hardy Yards.

Now, here's another twist. METRO also bought 1101 and 1115 NAYLOR, on the east side of N. Main. These 2 properties are directly south of Hardy Yards.

Looks like I'll be taking N. Main home today. I need to see this property.

Yeah, the north boundery in that lay-over is Burnett. One of the Naylor properties are being leased to Rice according to a newsletter I get. It's just temporary until Rice has their own secure data center contructed.

What ever the layout, ultimatly it looks like Metro has plenty of land to work with. Now if we could just come up with a re-route for I10. I'd have no problem with a tunnel for that short stretch.

[VicMan]

I don't mind a Grand Central for Houston either. Philadelphia has a large central station too.

[TheNiche]

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/disp/story...nt/3599661.html

Should be an interesting project. Curious as to if it will become a reality...

I've read a few peoples' posts that have mentioned that the Greyhound Bus Terminal would be relocated to the intermodal station. Although that would make perfect sense, it wasn't mentioned in the article. Can anybody verify that this is actually going to happen? If it does, that would be a major boon to upper Midtown, as it would relocate many of the vagrants and result in the closing of the several rental car places and the check cashing service. With all that land so close to light rail stops being opened up to developers, and without the vagrants, the area would be set for a big boom. I'd bet Camden would be the first...and perhaps then something would happen with the old Central Square complex. Each of those would have ground-level retail, along with 2016 Main and Post Midtown. Slowly but surely, that neighborhood would start to actually look like one.

Btw, in regards to my earlier post, I don't see what's so wrong about criticizing Metro for putting its administrative offices in a place where 1) they knew would not be the center of their operations in the future and 2) where land prices were so high. They could have easily fulfilled the needs of the DTC's operations using only half a block of land, allowing the other half to be sold back to the private sector (bearing in mind that private owners are taxable owners). With the proceeds of the sale of the half-block, Metro could have then easily continued to lease downtown office space until the intermodal facility were built and located their HQ in the heart of the action. It's not like there's a shortage of CBD office space at the moment, and I don't see how their being located along the southern outskirts of downtown is in any way advantageous over being along the northern outskirts of downtown where there would be an intermodal hub.