clutchcity94 Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) Not sure if this is the right forum, but I wanted to start a discussion about development patterns and how they differ/compare between Montrose and the Heights. From a developer’s perspective, is one considered to be more “prime real estate” than the other? How does ppsf compare? What will each neighborhood look like 20 years from now and will one be more “desirable” than the other? Edited August 20, 2022 by clutchcity94 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 (edited) I think the fact that Montrose is closer to downtown, TMC, and both Rice and UH makes it more desirable for more high rises. I could see Montrose Blvd lined with high rises in 20 years. Edited August 22, 2022 by hindesky 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutchcity94 Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share Posted August 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, hindesky said: I think that fact that Montrose is closer to downtown, TMC, and both Rice and UH makes it more desirable for more high rises. I could see Montrose Blvd lined with high rises in 20 years. I agree, and one of the things I’ve noticed is that development patterns in Montrose are more “Houston” than development patterns in the Heights. For example, a lot of the new construction residential and commercial properties in the Heights look a lot more put together and organized, whereas Montrose, while still really nice, looks a bit more haphazard. There are countless residential streets in both neighborhoods with early 20th century bungalows, but for some reason the pride of ownership is a lot more apparent in the Heights, in terms of upkeep, being freshly painted and photogenic, etc. I always wondered why that was the case. Perhaps most of these bungalows in Montrose are rental properties and not primary residences? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HNathoo Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 The best montrose development sites trade for double the best heights development sites. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutchcity94 Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share Posted August 21, 2022 41 minutes ago, HNathoo said: The best montrose development sites trade for double the best heights development sites. Interesting. So Montrose Collective dirt is worth 2x Heights Mercantile dirt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HNathoo Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, clutchcity94 said: Interesting. So Montrose Collective dirt is worth 2x Heights Mercantile dirt? I’d say so. Surface parked 1-2 story development versus underground garage with mixed use 6 story building. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutchcity94 Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share Posted August 21, 2022 21 minutes ago, HNathoo said: I’d say so. Surface parked 1-2 story development versus underground garage with mixed use 6 story building. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 One big difference is that much of the Heights is in a historic district, which will limit which areas can be redeveloped. That means the residential portions of the Heights will be relatively static, with no changes in density or appearance. Montrose has more flexibility in that respect. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcal Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 22 hours ago, Ross said: One big difference is that much of the Heights is in a historic district, which will limit which areas can be redeveloped. That means the residential portions of the Heights will be relatively static, with no changes in density or appearance. Montrose has more flexibility in that respect. Fun fact: Houston's historical districts don't actually regulate land-use because that would be zoning. They just regulate appropriateness. Granted, there are a boat-load of deed restrictions which require single family residential, so what you are saying is effectively true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texasota Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) well, it also makes tearing down existing buildings difficult or impossible in many cases, and if the existing building is a single family home, that will still have a similar effect. The big problem in the Heights historic districts has been 1200sf homes on 6600sf lots. Developers can't tear down the existing house, so they had instead just been appending massive additions to the rear, ending up with absurd mcmansions with the original house serving as little more than an entry hall. The historic ordinance has had some amendments and Heights-specific design guidelines were developed, but a lot of the damage was already done. Montrose has a decent number of historic districts as well, but houses and lots are typically much more in scale to each other (smaller houses, larger lots, and the occasional genuine mansion), so you don't have the same problem there. Woodland Heights, Germantown, and Norhill are all more intact as historic districts because of a combination of smaller lots and, in Norhill's case, a somewhat overzealous attention paid to deed restrictions. Norhill worries *way* too much about garage apartments, which have nothing to do with preserving the historic character of the neighborhood. If anything, encouraging garage apartment construction would be much more in keeping woth the neighborhood's historic character. And, for what it's worth, large chunks of any definition of the Heights are outside the districts. You can tell because that's where the wide-scale townhouse development has been. The whole southwest section (S of 11th and W of Heights) and the NW section (smaller lots/blocks around W 19th), both of which are original parts of Houston Heights, have had tons of redevelopment. Edited August 22, 2022 by Texasota 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Heights has seen a massive influx of multifamily units and almost every single family home has been flipped into a high end humper house or the dreaded Modern Victorian Farmhouse new construction. Add to that similar gentrification in the GOOF and you have a tremendous boost in demand for retail, which has resulted in some big projects like Heights Mercantile, MKT, etc. Gentrification in Montrose has been ongoing for many years and did not have the same sort of light switch moment that the Heights has had over the past decade. Montrose is a much smaller area and does not have room for the same kind of multifamily expansion. So, the retail side of development in Montrose has not been as fast and furious as the Heights. Plus, Westheimer is just a very odd duck for development with a lot of very small lots that have been very slow to congeal into a contiguous and walkable shopping/restaurant district. So, you have an odd mix of very high end restaurants and retail sharing the same street with tattoo parlors, vintage clothing and antique shops. The trend is definitely towards upscale, but it has been pretty slow over the years. Development in the Heights has kind of reached a bit of an impasse on the single family side. Most everything has been flipped in the Heights proper, Sunset Heights, Norhill, Shady Acres and Woodland Heights. East Sunset Heights and Brookesmith have been slow to gentrify compared to the rest of the Heights. On the retail and multifamily side, things are peaking with a lot of the big tracts getting gobbled up (insert your favorite Kroger on 20th street redevelopment rumor here). Montrose just seems to be on a very long slog with very little room left for any big developments. The original single family homes are often very nicely updated and will every now and then hold enough value to keep builders from tearing them down. So, it will continue to be a mish mash of original architecture, town homes and new large single family homes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 13 hours ago, Texasota said: If anything, encouraging garage apartment construction would be much more in keeping woth the neighborhood's historic character Maybe remind people that Fonzie lived in the Cunningham's garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) Montrose apartment projects: Under construction- Modera Waugh 701 Richmond Fairmont Museum District III Lumen Proposed apartments- Southeastern Disco Kroger Hanover Autry Regent Square UsLiving W. Alabama UsLiving Montrose Fairfield Waugh Greater Heights apartment projects: Under construction- UG Co-Op Waterworks II White Oak Condos Alexan Junction Heights 2100 Memorial Greystar The Oliver on Summer St. Fairfield East Bend Broadstone Beall 20th St. PDG Beall St. Proposed- Prose Oliver Fairfield Oliver Modera Houston Ave. Portman Center St. UsLiving 18th St. Artistry Design 12th St. Lennar Multifamily 26th St. Heights 26th St. OHT 25th St. Luxury One Larkin St. McGrath 11th St. Edited October 8, 2022 by hindesky 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avossos Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Wait - aren't Prose Oliver and Fairfield Oliver the same? You forgot to include 'The Oliver' U/C by Greystar in Heights 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Avossos said: Wait - aren't Prose Oliver and Fairfield Oliver the same? You forgot to include 'The Oliver' U/C by Greystar in Heights Prose is workforce brand of apartments by Alliance. Edit: And across the street from each other. Edited August 22, 2022 by hindesky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avossos Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, hindesky said: Prose is workforce brand of apartments by Alliance. Edit: And across the street from each other. Could you show us on a map? I thought across the street was the 'East Dock' development by Lovett... NVM - although it does say the 1505 Oliver property is to be 6,900 sq feet apartments? seems small... Edited August 22, 2022 by Avossos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hindesky Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Prose Oliver..... Fairfield Oliver or Sawyer Heights.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 10 hours ago, editor said: Maybe remind people that Fonzie lived in the Cunningham's garage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crock Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 anything being built on Oliver st isn't in the "Greater heights" anyway, so not sure why it's part of this discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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