Megawalk

[Guest Plastic]

I was thinking why don't they make a megawalk. It's be like a skywalk but longer and with moving sidewalks.

It would start at Bayou Place going EWast. It would turn right to the South Down Louisiana or Smith. It would go DOwn to The Hyatt and Allen Center, past old Enron all the wya down to Continental Airlines. It would be long,wid and connect all the buildings on Smith/Louisiana. Since it's basically one corridor and there are so many intersections just make it easier to get up and down the bus part of Downtown. That and easier than connecting to the tunnels. Could even have vending machines and people selling things in carts.

[pwright1]

Do you honestly think this is a good idea? You've got to be kidding.

[WesternGulf]

Do you honestly think this is a good idea? You've got to be kidding.

Ditto

I guess some people do not care about street life, but just a chance to be "futuristic". The same mindset a lot of architects had during urban renewal, which killed a lot of our cities.

[nmainguy]

I was thinking why don't they make a megawalk. It's be like a skywalk but longer and with moving sidewalks.

It would start at Bayou Place going EWast. It would turn right to the South Down Louisiana or Smith. It would go DOwn to The Hyatt and Allen Center, past old Enron all the wya down to Continental Airlines. It would be long,wid and connect all the buildings on Smith/Louisiana. Since it's basically one corridor and there are so many intersections just make it easier to get up and down the bus part of Downtown. That and easier than connecting to the tunnels. Could even have vending machines and people selling things in carts.

[TheNiche]

I was thinking why don't they make a megawalk. It's be like a skywalk but longer and with moving sidewalks.

It would start at Bayou Place going EWast. It would turn right to the South Down Louisiana or Smith. It would go DOwn to The Hyatt and Allen Center, past old Enron all the wya down to Continental Airlines. It would be long,wid and connect all the buildings on Smith/Louisiana. Since it's basically one corridor and there are so many intersections just make it easier to get up and down the bus part of Downtown. That and easier than connecting to the tunnels. Could even have vending machines and people selling things in carts.

The master plan for the Texas Medical Center calls for a similar concept, which is already built out in some places within the M.D. Anderson campus, along the south side of Holcombe. Skywalks are elevated and are wide enough for vehicular transport. I don't remember if there were moving sidewalks, but I'd be surprised if there weren't at least plans for them.

Upon completion of the skywalk system, there will be a grid consisting of about two or three major east/west and north/south skywalk corridors through the entire TMC, creating a grid that links pedestrians efficiently to light rail stops and the TMC Transit Center, which is about to become a world-class residential/retail/office hub in addition to fulfilling its mass transit role.

The TMC has a master plan that calls for substantially less on-site parking, but to actually make that idea feasible, they've had to accept that street life must be forsaken. If people are inconvenienced in the least bit by having to walk at all, they won't. The solution may be 'futuristic', but its one that satisfies the greatest part of the TMC's user base and that will prevent the core of the TMC from becoming so congested as to stifle new development.

I dont' think that a similar plan downtown is likely to fly due to cost/benefit infeasibility. There would be major right-of-way problems and the system would have to compete for users with the existing tunnel/skywalk system. In addition, there are too many architects that would whine far too loundly in favor of their romantic neotraditional ideals.

[nmainguy]

...there are too many architects that would whine far too loundly in favor of their romantic neotraditional ideals.

Yeah those "romantic neotraditional ideals" really suck. Sunlight, fresh air, convinience, large trees [live oaks come to mind], traditional street life [not the "neo" kind]...thing like that. Let's just pave the entire city under miles of barren, lifeless, glass-enclosed skywalks/ways! That'll show those whacky architects a thing or 4!

[mike1]

"Tunnels"..."skyways"..."convenience"... them there's fightin' words around these parts!

[houstonsemipro]

Oh, gosh! Another imaginary thread.

[Subdude]

This was the original idea behind Houston Center back in the 1970s. The development would have covered 33 blocks. The ground level would have been dedicatd to vehicle traffic and parking, and there was to have been a raised platform covering the streets. The platform would have been for pedestrians and a people mover that would have connected the buildings. It didn't happen because people weren't happy with the concept of all the streets in the area becoming dark tunnels.

[Guest Plastic]

I would be, who wants to walk on the street especially in houston with all the elements?

[DJ V Lawrence]

I was thinking why don't they make a megawalk. It's be like a skywalk but longer and with moving sidewalks.

It would start at Bayou Place going EWast. It would turn right to the South Down Louisiana or Smith. It would go DOwn to The Hyatt and Allen Center, past old Enron all the wya down to Continental Airlines. It would be long,wid and connect all the buildings on Smith/Louisiana. Since it's basically one corridor and there are so many intersections just make it easier to get up and down the bus part of Downtown. That and easier than connecting to the tunnels. Could even have vending machines and people selling things in carts.

I like big thinking

TheNiche mentioned earlier that a similar concept is part of the Texas Medical Center. I can see how it's needed there for easy accessibility.

For Downtown though, I've gotta ask what retailers and restaurants would think of the idea. I think a Megawalk idea could work for, say four buildings at a time need-be (like the former Enron Buildings. What are they called now?), but for all of downtown? I don't think it would work for businesses, but I do hope to see more wishful thinking like this come up. Good concept

[RedScare]

While thinking of new ideas without regard to whether it is feasible is fun (just ask me about my high speed rail fantasies sometime), this particular one does have its problems. First, is expense versus use. I don't know that a moving sidewalk down Louisiana would get that much use. It would have to run above the sidewalk, drawing complaints as to blighting the streetscape. The building owners would likely complain that it obstructed their buildings. You'd also have to have numerous escalators, since people would not walk up stairs to get to a people mover, taking away more sidewalk space.

And frankly, I'd like to see more energy EFFICIENT city projects that promote walking, rather than expensive machines that allow for even less pedestrian activity.

How about shaded canopies over sidewalks that shield the pedestrian from rain and sun, while minimally imposing on the streetscape? Something that cools the sidewalk without making it feel like a tunnel? That would be very useful.

[WesternGulf]

How about shaded canopies over sidewalks that shield the pedestrian from rain and sun, while minimally imposing on the streetscape? Something that cools the sidewalk without making it feel like a tunnel? That would be very useful.

Bingo. They already have this in Seattle.

[RedScare]

Exactly! I've been suggesting architectural elements like the Rice Hotel canopy for years. Most of you know that I walk a lot in Downtown. Since I am in the northern half, the tunnels are not as prevalent. These canopies shade you in the summer, often with a breeze, and are shelter when it rains.

More of this "old school" architecture from our non-air-conditioned past would be wonderful.

[Guest Plastic]

We wouldn't messecarily have to have escalators. We could connect it directly to the buildings. All then people would have to do is walk out their building and they're in it.

[WesternGulf]

Just one simple question: Why continue to detriment Downtown Houston's streetlife when there are so many downtown organizations that are trying to increase ped traffic at street level?

[mike1]

I kind of like one idea mentioned when this topic came up with regard to the proposed underground parking garage. Tunnels could be built that would enable people to get from point A to point B in a hurry, but then shops and amenities could be built at street level so that pedestrian activity would also be drawn up to the surface as well. Whether or not to have tunnels may not be an either/or issue, but rather a matter of combining ideas to their best effect. If developments were built with activity at street level but then connected by tunnels below the surface, it might even promote pedestrian activity by increasing draw from a wider area of downtown. People who might not otherwise make the walk because its too far/hot/humid or whatever, might be willing to take the tunnels and then come up to the surface in the area of their favorite shop or restaurant. Those who like street level could continue to walk on street level while also being assured that there's plenty of excitement out on the streets.

It might require zoning to make something like that happen, but since we're talking fantasy and all...

[Talbot]

We wouldn't messecarily have to have escalators. We could connect it directly to the buildings. All then people would have to do is walk out their building and they're in it.

Then people would have no reason to go to the street at all! That would be a depressing sight.

[RedScare]

It might require zoning to make something like that happen, but since we're talking fantasy and all...

It wouldn't require anything new. They already do that. The convention center parking (Bayou Place) is all underground, with links to both the tunnel system and the street. Every building has tunnel links and sidewalk access. Since there are few, if any new tunnels being built, at least that have space for retail, it is not a big deal.

The current focus seems to be on improving Downtown infrastructure and making DT a nighttime and weekend draw for non-downtowners, as well as drawing downtown residents. If that succeeds, street level retail will come, regardless of what is in the tunnels. There will be no need to lose the tunnels, as there will be room for both.

[mike1]

It wouldn't require anything new. They already do that. The convention center parking (Bayou Place) is all underground, with links to both the tunnel system and the street. Every building has tunnel links and sidewalk access. Since there are few, if any new tunnels being built, at least that have space for retail, it is not a big deal.

The current focus seems to be on improving Downtown infrastructure and making DT a nighttime and weekend draw for non-downtowners, as well as drawing downtown residents. If that succeeds, street level retail will come, regardless of what is in the tunnels. There will be no need to lose the tunnels, as there will be room for both.

Good points. I was thinking of somehow trying to promote more existing restaurants and retail to move to street level, as the most common complaint against the tunnels is that they pull business from street level, turning downtown into a dead zone. Personally, I like having the tunnels, but I don't necessarily need all of the retail to be down there and would gladly walk to street level to visit my favorite shops and restaurants. As you point out, some areas already do this well, but it would be nice to encourage it on a larger scale. Areas such as Bayou Place and the McKinney Street Garage should serve as models for the entire system. At least it would pacify some of the most vocal complaints about the tunnel system while maintaining the benefits that it provides. I just don't know how you would encourage more developers to pursue such alternatives on a larger scale short of regulating where certain types of development could be placed in the system.

[MidtownCoog]

more existing restaurants and retail to move to street level

Thing is, most of the buildings downtown are not even designed to house street level businesses.

We are slowly making progress with parking garages having street level retail, but otherwise, it would require some big changes on the existing buildings.

[mike1]

Thing is, most of the buildings downtown are not even designed to house street level businesses.

We are slowly making progress with parking garages having street level retail, but otherwise, it would require some big changes on the existing buildings.

That's for sure. Just thinking in fantasy terms since this is a fantasy topic... Gotta work with what we have, though...

[TheNiche]

Then people would have no reason to go to the street at all! That would be a depressing sight.

No, it'd simply relocate the street. Wal-mart has been chastized by architects and sociologists for having destroyed streetscapes in Main Street USA, which in their view is tantamount to having eliminated opportunities for social interaction. Perhaps if they themselves got out of the car (as they would like to encourage so many others to do) and walk (as they would like to encourage so many others to do) the half-mile through the parking lot at Wal-Mart, then perhaps they'd realize that streets and pedestrian plazas still exist, only they've been relocated inside of a Wal-Mart. What's more, the Wal-Mart is so completely and utterly efficient that it induces new pedestrian traffic just by its very existence. And because it carries practically every good necessary to sustaining life, every kind of person from every walk of life goes there. And I don't even want to hear the argument that people just go in and out like cattle, not bothering to interact with one another. I've seen socialization there with my own eyes, and it may not be as sophisticated as the Starbucks version of socialization, but it certainly exists, and happens en masse.

Its not unlike the idea of creating an ultra-efficient pedestrian transport system. If its efficient, then most all existing pedestrians would use it and many more new pedestrians would be induced to use it. By packing many people into relatively confined common areas where socialization occurs with ease in an environment that is not affected by the elements, one would think that both architects and sociologists would be made happy. But alas, what they really seem to be after is some utopian Mayberryville, with a lot of ornate 19th century buildings and similar street aesthetics. After all, we all know how much better life was back then--unless you were poor, gay, lesbian, a woman, or in any way brown.

[WesternGulf]

I respect your opinion but I scream hogwash. That was a joke right?

[RedScare]

I would like to think that we have just one shred of non-consumer decency left in our bodies that would allow for exercise and socializing in some place that is not a giant building full of goods for sale.

Aside from the hideously depressing look of a Wal Mart, inside and out, one walking on a sidewalk or in a park is not forced to consume...even if the shops line the sidewalk. It is pretty tough to walk around a Wal Mart without buying something...or being questioned by security as to why you are not.

But, to each his own.

[mike1]

A giant version of Wal-Mart downtown might be more efficient, but it would also be very depressing. It would be a free market version of those monolithic structures they used to envision in Communist countries. Or Albert Speer's vision for Nazi Germany. As a fan history and of older architecture, I

[Talbot]

No, it'd simply relocate the street. Wal-mart has been chastized by architects and sociologists for having destroyed streetscapes in Main Street USA, which in their view is tantamount to having eliminated opportunities for social interaction. Perhaps if they themselves got out of the car (as they would like to encourage so many others to do) and walk (as they would like to encourage so many others to do) the half-mile through the parking lot at Wal-Mart, then perhaps they'd realize that streets and pedestrian plazas still exist, only they've been relocated inside of a Wal-Mart. What's more, the Wal-Mart is so completely and utterly efficient that it induces new pedestrian traffic just by its very existence. And because it carries practically every good necessary to sustaining life, every kind of person from every walk of life goes there. And I don't even want to hear the argument that people just go in and out like cattle, not bothering to interact with one another. I've seen socialization there with my own eyes, and it may not be as sophisticated as the Starbucks version of socialization, but it certainly exists, and happens en masse.

Its not unlike the idea of creating an ultra-efficient pedestrian transport system. If its efficient, then most all existing pedestrians would use it and many more new pedestrians would be induced to use it. By packing many people into relatively confined common areas where socialization occurs with ease in an environment that is not affected by the elements, one would think that both architects and sociologists would be made happy. But alas, what they really seem to be after is some utopian Mayberryville, with a lot of ornate 19th century buildings and similar street aesthetics. After all, we all know how much better life was back then--unless you were poor, gay, lesbian, a woman, or in any way brown.

Are you serious? So you're telling me that you believe a Wal-Mart is just as good as a downtown streetscape? And you also believe that walking down aisles and waiting in line is comparable to streets and pedestrian plazas? And I wouldn't call asking where the soap is and can you please move your cart as a very pleasurable means of socializing.

[RedScare]

Are you serious? So you're telling me that you believe a Wal-Mart is just as good as a downtown streetscape? And you also believe that walking down aisles and waiting in line is comparable to streets and pedestrian plazas? And I wouldn't call asking where the soap is and can you please move your cart as a very pleasurable means of socializing.

[Guest Plastic]

I think it 's a good idea. Houston's not a pedestrian city and never will be. The vast majority of people DOwntown are working. We shoudl stop this idea to make Downtown entertainment and ressidential.

If you're in a building downtown the main thing you want to do is get ot your destination in a hurry and not have to deal with heat and weather.There' mroe to do underground than above ground. Who wants to be exposed to the outside weather,wating for lights,risking geting hit by caars when you could take an indoorrout nonstop on a moving sidewalk?

I think it makes more buisness sense to have a buisness inthe tunnels. More people see and do woukd use it. People don't understand that unlike NewYork City Houston isn't a place where thousand of pedestrians crowd the sidewalk making buisness for on ground shops and peeople selling things out of carts. Only place like that is the mall.

If we wanted to do something liek that there'd have to be a real transit center. One reason so many peopleare on the streets in New york is cause they walk to work. That or they walk from the train station. Houston is a city where a many people commute by car. The ones thatdo ride the buse are dropped off right at or a block fromtheir job.

There was talks of a transit centr with a tunnel connection.That's an idea I like. Have a centralhub downtown where people can cath all their buses parkand rides, and trains. There'd be shops in it for people going to work and leaving. With that amount of peple around it would make for good buissness for shops above ground.Resteraunts blacks away would get buissness as people walked to and from this transit hotspot.

[RedScare]

I think it 's a good idea. Houston's not a pedestrian city and never will be. The vast majority of people DOwntown are working. We shoudl stop this idea to make Downtown entertainment and ressidential.

If you're in a building downtown the main thing you want to do is get ot your destination in a hurry and not have to deal with heat and weather.There' mroe to do underground than above ground. Who wants to be exposed to the outside weather,wating for lights,risking geting hit by caars when you could take an indoorrout nonstop on a moving sidewalk?

I think it makes more buisness sense to have a buisness inthe tunnels. More people see and do woukd use it. People don't understand that unlike NewYork City Houston isn't a place where thousand of pedestrians crowd the sidewalk making buisness for on ground shops and peeople selling things out of carts. Only place like that is the mall.

If we wanted to do something liek that there'd have to be a real transit center. One reason so many peopleare on the streets in New york is cause they walk to work. That or they walk from the train station. Houston is a city where a many people commute by car. The ones thatdo ride the buse are dropped off right at or a block fromtheir job.

There was talks of a transit centr with a tunnel connection.That's an idea I like. Have a centralhub downtown where people can cath all their buses parkand rides, and trains. There'd be shops in it for people going to work and leaving. With that amount of peple around it would make for good buissness for shops above ground.Resteraunts blacks away would get buissness as people walked to and from this transit hotspot.

I'm curious, Plastic? Have you ever been Downtown? Ever been there during the workday? Ever worked there? It doesn't sound like it.

Oh, where to start? How about the first sentence? Downtown Houston IS VERY pedestrian. Let me explain. 150,000 or more people work downtown. Studies show that 40% of them use public transportation to get there. Let me let that sink in. FORTY PERCENT of downtown workers do not drive their cars to work. That means that over 60,000 people WALK in downtown during the day.

Where do they walk? Some walk in the tunnels. Some walk on the street. The tunnels are choked with people walking to lunch. The sidewalks are busy with people, too.

Now, about those who drive to work. They come downtown and they park. Where? In a garage, usually multi-story, usually several blocks from the office. They then WALK to their office, usually in a multi-story office building. At lunchtime, what do they do? They WALK to lunch, sometimes in the tunnels, sometimes on the streets. They generally DO NOT walk to their cars. Why? It would take 15 minutes to get to their car and 15 minutes to get back. Big waste of a lunch hour. Traffic at lunchtime is not that busy.

Most downtowners are not afraid of the outside. As more restaurants open on the street, more people go them. Anyone who uses the tunnels knows why. They are crowded, the shops are small, and there is nothing to look at, except the other tunnel walkers, of course. The tunnels can be convenient, but the street level shops are bigger, more comfortable and open to the outside, i.e., sunlight.

As for your transit center. Guess what what? We already got one. No kidding! It is located at Main and Pierce. It's purpose is to facilitate changing buses. However, if you don't think Houstonians are pedestrian, I don't know why you would think this would help.

Finally, your moving sidewalks...elevated, no less. It won't happen. Why? No one wants them. Not the workers. Not the city. Not the building owners. Not the developers. If no one wants them, they won't get built. Workers have tunnels and sidewalks. The city does not wan't the clutter. The building owners have already built out their 2nd floors with lobbies and offices. It would cost millions to add skywalks and moving sidewalks, when the workers already have tunnels. Developers don't want the added expense when they have nothing to connect them to. Plus, the newfound appreciation for street level retail allows them to make more money renting out the first floor. Why would they want to ruin it with a skywalk?

We Houstonians love to call ourselves fat and unwilling to get out of our cars. This may well be true in the suburbs, where there is room to put parking lots next to the front door. But, Downtown is not the burbs. In fact, Houston's downtown has more workers in it than any other downtown in the country, other than NY and Chicago. And once we park our cars or get off the bus, WE WALK...whether on the street, or in the tunnels.

You really should come see it before you tell us how to fix it.