Fulton St./San Jacinto St. Major Thoroughfare Plan

[hindesky]

Attended the Houston Planning Commission meeting on Thursday afternoon. The future San Jacinto St. to Fulton St. connector was brought up. It would link downtown with the near north side. The current plan is to make it a Major Thoroughfare. This had a lot of opposition from people that live on or near Fulton St. I rode my bike on Fulton St. last week and it seems to be a small neighborhood street. Plan is to take from a little 2 lane street to a 4 lane road. The city is thinking about making it major collector instead reducing it from the previously planned 80' wide and reducing it to 60'. Plans aren't finalized yet.

https://www.houstontx.gov/planning/transportation/MTFP_22/B-Fulton-Street-San-Jacinto-Street-Preliminary-Report-Final.pdf

[editor]

I drove through that area a couple of weeks ago, and I can understand people worrying.  They see what Elysian's expansion has done to the neighborhood, and want no more of it.

The neighborhood is kinda like a shabby version of the Heights, and appears happy to be both close to downtown and under the radar.

I understand the city wanting to extend San Jacinto, though I don't fully grasp where it expects all the traffic to go once it gets north of the freeway.  In pre-COVD times, this would be a catalyst for gentrifying that little neighborhood with downtown commuters.  Today?  What's the point?

 

[iah77]

2 hours ago, editor said:

I drove through that area a couple of weeks ago, and I can understand people worrying.  They see what Elysian's expansion has done to the neighborhood, and want no more of it.

The neighborhood is kinda like a shabby version of the Heights, and appears happy to be both close to downtown and under the radar.

I understand the city wanting to extend San Jacinto, though I don't fully grasp where it expects all the traffic to go once it gets north of the freeway.  In pre-COVD times, this would be a catalyst for gentrifying that little neighborhood with downtown commuters.  Today?  What's the point?

 

I don't think its just downtown commuters, it's an affordable area right next to the heights and a lot of great areas so of course demand is high regardless. 

 

This area is really cut off in a bad way due to the railroad, future hardy extension and I think it would benefit from having another access point. Main which is the other way to downtown floods badly and is only one lane. 

 

EDIT: I think this would allow portions of Main to be made more pedestrian friendly since it has great infrastructure to work in that direction also. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by iah77

[mkultra25]

3 hours ago, hindesky said:

Attended the Houston Planning Commission meeting on Thursday afternoon. The future San Jacinto St. to Fulton St. connector was brought up. It would link downtown with the near north side. The current plan is to make it a Major Thoroughfare. This had a lot of opposition from people that live on or near Fulton St. I rode my bike on Fulton St. last week and it seems to be a small neighborhood street. Plan is to take from a little 2 lane street to a 4 lane road. The city is thinking about making it major collector instead reducing it from the previously planned 80' wide and reducing it to 60'. Plans aren't finalized yet.

Pretty sure that particular section of Fulton has always been a small neighborhood street. Some of the sections of Fulton north of this one used to be four lanes until the light rail was built and they were scaled back to two lanes as a result.  

[Triton]

So this is saying that they don't even want the tunnel to connect San Jacinto and Fulton. As a Northside resident, I think this will be a mistake. We need more connections and more access to downtown, not less. I do agree though that widening Fulton from 2 to 4 lanes isn't even viable. 

[Houston19514]

Per the 2021 MTFP, Fulton is indeed listed as a "major thoroughfare". 

From I-10 to Burnett, it's shown as "proposed"

From Burnett to Hogan, it's shown as "sufficient width" 

From Hogan to Boundary, it's shown as "to be widened"

Those don't seem to match some of what is in that presentation to the Planning Commission.

In any event, I think extending the connection across Hardy Yards and into downtown is important for greater grid connectivity, not just for cars, but pedestrians and bicycles as well.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

46 minutes ago, Triton said:

So this is saying that they don't even want the tunnel to connect San Jacinto and Fulton. As a Northside resident, I think this will be a mistake. We need more connections and more access to downtown, not less. I do agree though that widening Fulton from 2 to 4 lanes isn't even viable. 

It seems like the request is more about reducing it from major thoroughfare to major collector, not about eliminating the connection?  That seems like it would make a lot of sense.  (In truth, we probably need to cut back on "major thoroughfares" into downtown, at least to the extent they are designed to carry traffic at  50 (or 40) mph . . . (I'm lookin at you, San Jacinto, Fannin, Travis, Milam and Smith Streets through Midtown, and the like)

[Triton]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

It seems like the request is more about reducing it from major thoroughfare to major collector, not about eliminating the connection?  That seems like it would make a lot of sense.  (In truth, we probably need to cut back on "major thoroughfares" into downtown, at least to the extent they are designed to carry traffic at  50 (or 40) mph . . . (I'm lookin at you, San Jacinto, Fannin, Travis, Milam and Smith Streets through Midtown, and the like)

The request states several things:

• That the bridge idea was a no-go with Union Pacific
• That a modification of the Hernandez Tunnel allowed traffic from Burnett
• That the TIRZ does not have anymore money to take on another project such as the new tunnel
• Other projects in the area render this tunnel useless

[Houston19514]

2 hours ago, Triton said:

The request states several things:

• That the bridge idea was a no-go with Union Pacific
• That a modification of the Hernandez Tunnel allowed traffic from Burnett
• That the TIRZ does not have anymore money to take on another project such as the new tunnel
• Other projects in the area render this tunnel useless

Yes, but there seem to be two amendment requests:  (1) Delete the section of Major Thoroughfare designation of Fulton/San Jacinto from I-10 to Burnett  and (2) Reclassify that same segment to "Major Collector".

[Triton]

5 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Yes, but there seem to be two amendment requests:  (1) Delete the section of Major Thoroughfare designation of Fulton/San Jacinto from I-10 to Burnett  and (2) Reclassify that same segment to "Major Collector".

Either way, they sound opposed to this San Jacinto/Fulton connection.

[Houston19514]

11 hours ago, Triton said:

Either way, they sound opposed to this San Jacinto/Fulton connection.

TIRZ 21 does indeed.  I certainly see their point regarding it being designated a major thoroughfare. That doesn't really seem to make sense any more for the entire length.  Seemed odd they only requested the change for the short, mostly nonexistent stretch in Hardy Yards, rather than asking for it to be re-designated all the way to the Loop.

The good news I found:  TIRZ 21 apparently has plans to build s small park/green space at the south end of Hardy Yards (roughly) and provide for pedestrian/bike connectivity across the railroad tracks and into downtown.

[Triton]

3 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

TIRZ 21 does indeed.  I certainly see their point regarding it being designated a major thoroughfare. That doesn't really seem to make sense any more for the entire length.  Seemed odd they only requested the change for the short, mostly nonexistent stretch in Hardy Yards, rather than asking for it to be re-designated all the way to the Loop.

The good news I found:  TIRZ 21 apparently has plans to build s small park/green space at the south end of Hardy Yards (roughly) and provide for pedestrian/bike connectivity across the railroad tracks and into downtown.

That's great! Yea, there needs to be some sort of connectivity here. 

[hindesky]

Planning Commission voted to make it a Major Collector vs a Major Thoroughfare and reduced the proposed width from 80' to 60'.