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I still have to laugh at this park. It's OK. I have a feeling it will revitalize downtown just like we thought MMP & TC would: Not very much.

And a putting green?

Oy freakin vey.

At this outrageous price, the city should start now buying surface lots to crate a chain of mini piazas.

I still think the citizens of Houston are getting ripped off in this deal. It's a park for real estate speculators.

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A ) What's gonna keep this from being just another homeless magnet ?

B ) I guess this is a nice start.. but it seems to me to be too small and positioned to only benefit a small portion of downtown. Buisnessmen in the skyline district aren't gonna walk 8 blocks to eat lunch under a tree.

It seems that until some of the ideas realized in the buffalo bayou plan are realized, like expanding Sam Houston Park, and the Commerce street waterfront, that Downtown isn't going to have a 'Park life'.

But I guess its the cummulative effort of several smaller parks, so yeah.. this a good start..

downtownpark.jpg

I still have to laugh at this park. It's OK. I have a feeling it will revitalize downtown just like we thought MMP & TC would: Not very much.

I agree.. I dont think this park by itself is gonna do the job. It's a start though.

As for the downtown revitalization.. I think it will happen eventually.

Residential developers are sitting around waiting on each other...

Perhaps once one developer takes a chance, the rest of the dominoes will fall and we'll all get this residential boom we've been hearing about down there.

From the Chron..

"Last year, a Colorado developer purchased a block of land to build a high-rise residential tower just north of the park site. The company, LandCo, said it would wait until 2008 to start construction to give the downtown residential market more time to strengthen. In February, Houston apartment developer Marvy Finger purchased a 1.4-acre site near the park for another project. The details are expected to be announced soon."

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"Last year, a Colorado developer purchased a block of land to build a high-rise residential tower just north of the park site. The company, LandCo, said it would wait until 2008 to start construction to give the downtown residential market more time to strengthen. In February, Houston apartment developer Marvy Finger purchased a 1.4-acre site near the park for another project. The details are expected to be announced soon."

Yes. The speculators are in position.

The speculators are ALWAYS in position. Nothing new there.

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Yes. The speculators are in position.

The speculators are ALWAYS in position. Nothing new there.

But the speculators are probably going to start building those high-rises ASAP once the development of the park and Pavillions get underway. It'd be kinda stupid for them to start building now when you still see words like "proposed" or "possible" in the renderings.

Just like that damn Astrodome Hotel rendering thing last year. They came out with an artist rendition, and we don't even know if they'll pursue it or not. Houston Pavillion and this downtown park are in that exact same phase, and the way these speculators see it, just buying the land alone is a gamble in itself when you don't know if and when the projects will become a reality.

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I am having a flashback:

But the speculators are probably going to start building those high-rises ASAP once the development of:

Minute Maid Park is Complete

The Rail Line Is Complete

Toyota Center Is Complete.

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I am having a flashback:

But the speculators are probably going to start building those high-rises ASAP once the development of:

Minute Maid Park is Complete

The Rail Line Is Complete

Toyota Center Is Complete.

great, now you've set us up for one of those long lists of every completed development between reliant center and downtown since the completion of these aforementioned projects. <_<

Edited by bachanon

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ok ok ok calm down, first of all the Astrodome thing was a bunch of talk, did you see anyone acutally say they were about to start renovation of the dome at any specific time, they didnt even talked to any sort of business willing to occupy the dome, thats the difference, the parks dont just have a plan and renderings, they have a date when they will begin, they have the business who will be in charge of the restaurant and the cafe, and as for Pavilions its no freakin different, they havent even done bidding for the main retail sections of the mall, just the two towers, its ridiculous to compare these projects to the astrodome idea, and i doubt homeless are going to invade the park, this thing is gonna draw a lot of people, we live in a metro of 4 MILLION in case we forgot, and if you do see a homeless person on the other side of the park, OH FREAKIN WELL, thats why its called a C-I-T-Y not a sqeeky clean suburb, look at Central Park in New York, man we bash every good thing that come to the city, we talk so much about why dont we look like this or have this, and when we freakin get it, we got stupid crap to say about it!

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The idea of increased park space is a good one. I find it unfortunate that that block of crawford will be closed. I use that quite a bit.

I do agree that it will be a homeless magnet. I know the city council passed the ordinance concerning homeless. i.e. keep em out of downtown/midtown but personally i still see them. and really i see them more frequently becuase of the train. most aren't afraid to hop on to go to the pierce elevated/bus stop area. i also see quite a few around the main street square. whereever there's a free meal, that's the stop they get off at.

I don't understand the putting green. I think it's kind of dumb. i know they built the basketball court at nearby at the park on bell. and i occasionally see people use the basketball court but i would rather have seen something else.

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I have to agree with the putting green. Kind of cheesy. I also got a laugh out of the jogging trail on this 12 acre park.

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y'all talking about the park will attract homeless. y'all need to get out more and check out other cities like, NYC, L.A., Philly, New Jersey , etc. They're full of homeless people at the parks.

I agree with, h-townfinest. This is a city, not a suburb.

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I am having a flashback:

But the speculators are probably going to start building those high-rises ASAP once the development of:

Minute Maid Park is Complete

The Rail Line Is Complete

Toyota Center Is Complete.

You talk about those three as if they didn't help spur anything new. The Main Street Rail line for example: think of how the Main Street Square looked in 2001 compared to 2004. And think about the GRB Convention Center area before 1999 compared to now. We now have a basketball stadium, baseball stadium, a convention hotel, and a proposed park with underground parking, a renovated Parks Shops, and possibly Houston Pavillions not too far from there. Sure, the stadiums themselves didn't spur that much, but the stadiums with all the other developments currently being built gives downtown land more worth, and the rise of activity downtown was the main reason behind the building of the stadiums there, which has definately happened.

In terms of the homeless: just because Central Park or other places has a large homeless population doesn't mean Houston has to be the same. If I recall, there's a large shelter or two downtown, and Houston has a strict homeless policy for Downtown/Midtown, and it's been strongly enforced. I don't expect HPD to ease up on the downtown park.

I think it would be smart if HPD had a 24/7 small station in the park.

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It does look awesome.... and pretty amazing to those of us who were there for the presentation by the conservancy / architects at the GRB this evening. Where the hell was everyone??

I know I'll get slaughtered for this, but for as many people who have voiced opinions about this park, it is amazing to me that there were maybe 50 in the room tonight for the unveiling. I'd find it hard to fathom that maybe more than 5 people who read this website bothered to show up - or else you would know that some of the comments made here are without basis. Nice showing, HAIF :angry: It appears to me you were too busy behind a monitor or trying to make sense of ill-reported stories in the paper than to bother to show up and hear the presentation, see the renderings, and ask questions of the design team and city officials. You should know that most of the issues that are being speculated on here were actually addressed in the presentation and by questions in the audience. Homeless issues - addressed (they had security experts addressing questions); the park amenities -- addressed (incl. the putting green... which is such a tiny component of the overall design and may not make the cut - unbelievable people are focusing on that!); parking issues -- addressed. Dog runs ARE part of the design... and, yes, that issue was addressed as well...

The lead architects did a great job in explaining themes and objectives of the design, as well as detailing financing and maintenance objectives. It was a balanced presentation, and there were many intelligent questions / concerns from the audience that were thoughtfully and comprehensively addressed.

The new downtown park will be a great addition to Houston... and I can guarantee you that it will be used and celebrated by the citizens (and visitors) of Houston. If it is half as good as I think, I'll be a frequent user... if not a new resident of the CBD to enjoy it all the time!

Sorry folks, on this one, I don't think your negativity is justified... <_<

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firstngoal, I was there tonight. I agree with you - I thought the architects and Guy Hagstette did a great job explaining the different features. The many facets of the park make sense together and will combine to become what I believe will be a truly premier city park. I find it amusing that people on this forum get so upset over much needed piece of green space. I laugh that they have the time to complain about little things like a putting green.

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yea Houston doesnt have to be the same, but your actin like in a city as big as ours that the homeless arent gonna be seen, thats ridiculous, and NY has a way stricter homeless policy than Houston, and yet you see them sleepin on the benches in Central Park with joggers and kids and families all around them, if its all bout JUST BECAUSE, well then we may as well screw downtown development because we dont have to be a world class city with a great downtown, as a matter of fact JUST BECAUSE NY, BOSTON, BALTIMORE, and LA have world class ports doesnt mean we have to have one either, oh and how bout Minute Maid Park and Toyota Center, JUST BECAUSE other cities have state of the art sports stadium doesnt mean we have to have them either, throw the whole downtown development plan down the drain because i mean JUST BECAUSE every other city has it doesnt mean we should, man if you go down Wall Street you will see a crap load of homeless for about 4 blocks if not more every single day all along the buildings, yet you got rich stock borkers and business men walking every single day down those blocks, we arent a city if there is no reality of homeless people, in the CITY its called tolerance, and if ya dont like it then leave to a big plot of land in the middle of nowhere, otherwise i think any individual who cant take a little grit and grime is in my opinion soft, sorry if i offend anyone, crap drives me up the wall

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I'm out of town and would of liked to be there. As for the dog area I didnt see it on the map but saw it later listed as an amenity.

I think overall this will be a cool place to hang out, while waiting for a 'Stros game, or for visitors at a convention, or guest at the hotels.

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I'm out of town and would of liked to be there. As for the dog area I didnt see it on the map but saw it later listed as an amenity.

I think overall this will be a cool place to hang out, while waiting for a 'Stros game, or for visitors at a convention, or guest at the hotels.

site plan

this link has the best overview. Yes the dog areas are shown. guess some people will be taking their limos cause there's a valet as well. since this is supposed to tie into the pavillions guess the valet will be good.

as for waiting for a stros game, i've never had to park that far away.

Edited by musicman

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site plan

this link has the best overview. Yes the dog areas are shown. guess some people will be taking their limos cause there's a valet as well. since this is supposed to tie into the pavillions guess the valet will be good.

as for waiting for a stros game, i've never had to park that far away.

It wasn't on this rendering that was originally posted.

dtpark.jpg

As for the Stros game I meant if you have some time to kill it's only a short walk away.

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I am not worried about the homless.

But for the price, why not build a bigger park in the warehouse district?

We expanded an existing park. I think we could done that and also created another park across 59 for the price of this project.

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so true MidtownCoog, the price was mighty steep but i guess for all they are gonna do to this park it kinda makes sense i guess, but id love to see the east end develop in to another midtown, like another neighborhood where people live, eat, work, that would be cool, plus expanding the park across 59 would be great for the whole growth of the area

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I wouldn't expect to see the park be some fantasy land of perfection. However, i would like to see HPD at least actively enforce any policy in place against letting the homeless just camp out. While I agree you see a little of everything in Central park, it is much, much bigger than this park will be and stretches across a lot of economic areas. So its a little hard to enforce kicking them all out. And usually when I have been, I don't think I see as much of what i sometimes see along the bayou, which is just basically letting the homeless do whatever they want. I like the several no camping signs along the bayou, but yet its the same exact homeless people I see there every single day that have built their own little shelters.

The current park that is where the new downtown one will be is currently a homeless stronghold. Some days its a shame because you see visitors from the convention center that get food from the Park shops, want to eat outside, but all the benches are taken by guys covered in paper bags and newspapers.

I always wonder what the point is of coming up with those policies if no one is going to enforce them. Same goes for the pan handling ordinances. Those got passed earlier this year, but I still see those guys wandering in the streets weaving between cars.

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I would have liked to attend the unveiling, but I live in Dallas, if anyone could give a recap I know it would be appreciated.

As for the timing of projects in Houston, for being fans of development and spending lots of time talking about it, there are a large number of clueless posters as to project costs and time lines. Just because a project is announced, doesn't mean it will break ground the next month. There are tremendous lag times involved in any development. And we are lucky in Texas, try developing on either coasts and you are in for a major shock.

As for the cost, I think the park is a bargain. This park is not simply throwing out some grass seed and creating open space, there are buildings, real landscaping and water features that start adding up real quickly, especially in this day and age of sky rocketing construction materials.

This is by no means the perfect park, it is however unlike anything else in the city of Houston and Texas in general.

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I would have liked to attend the unveiling, but I live in Dallas, if anyone could give a recap I know it would be appreciated.

As for the timing of projects in Houston, for being fans of development and spending lots of time talking about it, there are a large number of clueless posters as to project costs and time lines. Just because a project is announced, doesn't mean it will break ground the next month. There are tremendous lag times involved in any development. And we are lucky in Texas, try developing on either coasts and you are in for a major shock.

As for the cost, I think the park is a bargain. This park is not simply throwing out some grass seed and creating open space, there are buildings, real landscaping and water features that start adding up real quickly, especially in this day and age of sky rocketing construction materials.

This is by no means the perfect park, it is however unlike anything else in the city of Houston and Texas in general.

Amen!

BTW, It's nice to see they are putting the garage under an area that doesn't require deep root space for trees...very well thought out. The objections to a puny putting green? Big deal. As Mark Twain said golf is a long walk spoiled so at least this is only a putting green. ;)

B)

Edited by nmainguy

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I am not worried about the homless.

But for the price, why not build a bigger park in the warehouse district?

We expanded an existing park. I think we could done that and also created another park across 59 for the price of this project.

Warehouse district? Man you are really scared of downtown aren't you? <_<

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I am not worried about the homless.

But for the price, why not build a bigger park in the warehouse district?

We expanded an existing park. I think we could done that and also created another park across 59 for the price of this project.

...because it would be so cool to have to walk under 59 and look at the back side of the perpetually pollution sooted GRB? Because of it's inaccesability to downtown residents? Because streching the available dollars to only end up with two mediocre parks instead of one great park? Yeah, great idea but not going to happen-thank god.

B)

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yea i have to give in to what hokieone said, he makes a good point, the city sucks at enforcing any laws they set, the difference in NY is that htye actually get on the homeless for not obeying laws, Houston is gonna have to step up enforcing the homeless laws

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...because it would be so cool to have to walk under 59 and look at the back side of the perpetually pollution sooted GRB? Because of it's inaccesability to downtown residents? Because streching the available dollars to only end up with two mediocre parks instead of one great park? Yeah, great idea but not going to happen-thank god.

B)

You make a good point. In an ideal world we would build an amazing park in an area of town where there can be redevelopment in an unimpeded 360 degree radius around the park. However, after studying the parcels that are around the park site I think this will work well, if not better than having the park in a rundown area. You have the convention center and hotel on the front door of park which guarantees you a steady stream of built in users (assuming they venture out of their rooms, meeting and otherwise). You also have the TC which is a block away. I don't believe the TC will directly effect attendance at the park, but people going to the games will notice the park and that may translate into more users on following visits to downtown Houston.

The most exciting thing about the location is the open lots around the park. If the lots surrounding the park are developed and prove to be successful, I predict that the area between the park and MMP fills up next. On the opposite side of the park in the TC, HP and Park triangle you have a very desirable area to build residential. Not only does it have the cache of being near the Four Season, but you have a nice pocket park (forgot the name, Root - Brown?) which is always nice to walk out the front door too.

The amenities that developers look for when they are building in Urban areas are all there, parks (quality of life issue), entertainment (TC and HP) and you have the first substantial quality commercial downtown in HP. All developers want critical mass and traffic, even without HP this site has it. All it takes is one developer to take a leap and build a quality product and the area from Leeland to Texas could become a great livable neighborhood. I'm afraid land prices (I hate speculators) might prevent this from happening, let's hope a developer has some foresight (and some land already under his control) to start this thing off.

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This is a great opportunity. It seems alot of people want instant gratification on the cheap but that's not what this park is about. It is in the center of the CBD surrounded by very desirable amenities plus vacant plats that are screaming for a jump start like this park. Quality progess takes time and patience. Gripes about tiny putting greens and dog walks are irrelevant when you look at the overall impact a project like this has to offer.

B)

Edited by nmainguy

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Two lots bordering the park have already been bought, one to the west, and one on the North side by the pond. If they build, once they begin to occupy, others will follow.

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name, Root - Brown?)

man, that park is awesome, i love going there to play basketball with my friends....especially when you "j" them and you see the Chevron Tower and all the skyline in the background.

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Puff, puff, give? What are you talking about?

It is pretty clear that peoples' and city leaders agenda is to improve downtown, but that is kind of hard to do when most projects are considered a joke, not worth the money, or just building for the sake of something to be downtown.

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This ole tune of the park being overrun by the homeless is played out.....

Why?

Remember Bum Central.....otherwise known as Root Memorial Square? Since its rehab, the only people that inhabit the park are those who play pick-up games there on its court, like myself on occasion.

I havent seen a bum straggling this park not once. And that park takes up only a city block and doesnt have near as many amenities as this park has.

So if they cant even take over their former stomping grounds, what tells you its gonna happen with this new park? Nothing...nuff said.

This should end all of this "Bum" talk once and for all.

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This ole tune of the park being overrun by the homeless is played out.....

Why?

Remember Bum Central.....otherwise known as Root Memorial Square? Since its rehab, the only people that inhabit the park are those who play pick-up games there on its court, like myself on occasion.

I havent seen a bum straggling this park not once. And that park takes up only a city block and doesnt have near as many amenities as this park has.

So if they cant even take over their former stomping grounds, what tells you its gonna happen with this new park? Nothing...nuff said.

I agree Root memorial park was a huge bum jamboree. I remember driving by and saw what looked like a festival then I noticed everyone there was a bum.

Root park did bring down the bum population there I'm sure this park won't be a bum haven either. Bums are a fact of life we will see some ......wait a minute....yeah that's it ....... :mellow: I just got over it :D

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I think the park is great. It's very exciting times for the city right now and should continue over the next decade. A couple surface lots are being filled in with smaller projects already. Does the new park cover any surface lots?

Edited by Ethanra

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I think the park is great. It's very exciting times for the city right now and should continue over the next decade. A couple surface lots are being filled in with smaller projects already. Does the new park cover any surface lots?

Yes, the park will cover approximately 2-3 blocks worth of surface lots

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I agree they did a great job with Root Brown. Its really nice and I actually see people there at all hours of the day playing basketball, even pretty late at night around 10-ish. As for the bums not taking back over their stomping grounds, part of that is that I think there is a guard present at all times (or at least everytime I walk/ drive by). I don't know if the Rockets own the land or if its the city's, but the constant presence I think keeps away the bums.

I'm pretty sure all the bums that were at Root Brown are now the ones that are on congress.

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I certainly do not want this to turn into a homeless thread, but since I office on Main, and work at the courthouses, one would think that if anyone has the opportunity to be assaulted by the homeless daily, it would be me. It doesn't happen. I recognize that some people have a lower threshold of tolerance for these things than I, but this is, after all, a DOWNTOWN park. I would suggest that those who get squeamish at seeing someone use a shopping cart improperly should find other parks to enjoy where you won't be bothered by this sort of thing. This is a somewhat free country, and in a somewhat free society, some things are less than perfect. Even The Woodlands has those pesky teenagers talking loudly, ruining their Monument to Suburban Shopping on occasion...or so they say.

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I've done my part to improve downtown and Midtown. That's all I'll say.

The bums are not a problem. Sprinkler control is the most effective bum sweep there is.

I know many downtown bums. I see them everday. Chicken man, got change dude, have a good weekend dude. They are all harmless.

They are a different breed than the street crawlers you see in Midtown. They'll get you, sucka!

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I know many downtown bums. I see them everday. Chicken man, got change dude, have a good weekend dude. They are all harmless.

They are a different breed than the street crawlers you see in Midtown. They'll get you, sucka!

You know, you're right. The Downtown bums have personality. They seem to know how to get a buck and not get arrested...basically, don't be threatening to the change givers. It's almost as if Downtown is "The Show" of Bumdom. :lol:

Midtown is Double A at best.

Edited by RedScare

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I certainly do not want this to turn into a homeless thread, but since I office on Main, and work at the courthouses, one would think that if anyone has the opportunity to be assaulted by the homeless daily, it would be me. It doesn't happen. I recognize that some people have a lower threshold of tolerance for these things than I, but this is, after all, a DOWNTOWN park. I would suggest that those who get squeamish at seeing someone use a shopping cart improperly should find other parks to enjoy where you won't be bothered by this sort of thing. This is a somewhat free country, and in a somewhat free society, some things are less than perfect. Even The Woodlands has those pesky teenagers talking loudly, ruining their Monument to Suburban Shopping on occasion...or so they say.

Well said... and I would also suggest those people that think, or have concerns, that the new downtown park will be a new homeless encampment should 1) call the Downtown Park Conservancy and discuss the issue with them or 2) talk to the project architects and the maintenance coordinators. As I mentioned before, there was a large portion of the presentation on Tuesday dedicated to the subject. It was open to all.

But, I guess by showing concern through responsible actions, people wouldn't get to speculate or immediately trash what is an exciting new development for our city. Or show their intolerance for people in a different socio-economic, physical, or mental state than themselves. As the saying goes, if you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Ok, back to the park. Did I say I thought it was going to be a great addition to downtown!?

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Yes the Park will be Great!!!

Regarding bums, if it makes you feel any better, I was at an apartment in Copperfield a couple months ago a saw a homeless person rummaging through a dumpster. Not downtown. Copperfield.

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I'm not saying that the bums are out to get someone. You are right in that it is a free country. I understand that it will be an urban park.

However, in going back to the ordinance thing - if it says no camping, then they need to enforce it. If its stated you cannot approach certain locations to panhandle, then they need to enforce it. If its an ordinance that you can't sleep on the sidewalk, again, enforce it. Maybe the bums don't intend to do harm. I get that. But it gets old of everytime you stop to get gas or go to a bar with an outdoor patio, sure enough you get hit up for change. I don't think anyone is really picturing the great day when they are reading on the Great Lawn of the new park and some bum comes by to beg for money.

In downtown, i think the most popular story going is that they're just trying to get a bus ticket to go see their kid. the first time I heard it, it sounded logical. The 5th time, not so much.

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i am cautiously optimistic about the park (and that's good coming from me :D)

and about bums...they're everywhere, but there's a larger concentration right around chartes and pease/leeland - kind of reminded me of portland's chinatown :mellow:

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But it gets old of everytime you stop to get gas or go to a bar with an outdoor patio, sure enough you get hit up for change. I don't think anyone is really picturing the great day when they are reading on the Great Lawn of the new park and some bum comes by to beg for money.

In downtown, i think the most popular story going is that they're just trying to get a bus ticket to go see their kid. the first time I heard it, it sounded logical. The 5th time, not so much.

OK, let's just agree that you are a bum magnet. I've been Downtown for 10 years, and can't recall ever being hit up for change at a patio bar. And, if a bum ever used the "trying to see my kid" line on me, I'd laugh at him. MY bums are intelligent. "Any change today, sir?" If I feel like it, I toss them a quarter or two. If not, I say, "Not today."

I do get tired of them constantly blessing me, though, since I am agnostic. But, that is no more annoying than everyone constantly blessing America.

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Sorrta off Topic...

I was just readin an article in 002 about different artwork downtown...

where are the Dissapearing Gnomes ?

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Sorrta off Topic...

I was just readin an article in 002 about different artwork downtown...

where are the Dissapearing Gnomes ?

In the lawn between One and Two Allen Center.

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i am cautiously optimistic about the park (and that's good coming from me :D)

and about bums...they're everywhere, but there's a larger concentration right around chartes and pease/leeland - kind of reminded me of portland's chinatown :mellow:

What????? The Perfectland, I mean, Portland has bums?? :o

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