Discovery Green Park At 1500 McKinney St.

[houstonfella]

I would like for some of the dirt they are excavating be placed to make the area have some small hills along with a lake, fountain etc. A little elevation etc. would make a far more lovely park. I think.

Edited June 30, 2006 by houstonfella

[nmainguy]

I would like for some of the dirt they are excavating be placed to make the area have some small hills along with a lake, fountain etc. A little elevation etc. would make a far more lovely park. I think.

You mean like this?

[houstonfella]

Thanks NMain for that drawing. If it works out that beautifully, I will totally elated about the project. Since it will be the premier park for downtown, it has to be the best.

[Montrose1100]

Does anyone know when it is scheduled for construction or completetion? I tried to look at the website, but my computer didn't like the javascript on it.

[houston-development]

Does anyone know when it is scheduled for construction or completetion? I tried to look at the website, but my computer didn't like the javascript on it.

from what i just posted above

finally, and more on topic, fingers deal will break ground shortly after the park does. finger has the option to purchase / lease adjacent land and will if phase 1 performs well. it will not be named the park tower because of a conflict with an existing building with the same name.

it will probably take +/- 14 months to complete construction.

[Highway6]

Its hard for me to get excited about 4 square blocks of obviously shaped green space.

It is 168th the size of Central Park.

The heart of the skyline district, where the majority of would be park users work, is 8 blocks away.

A premiere urban park should be alot more natural then what has been proposed. Isn't that the point of an urban park.. a temporary midday escape to nature... not something with mist trees, urban sculptures, and a pond so small you can have a conversation with someone on the opposite bank.

I do realize we dont have the real estate to plop a park right down in the middle of the skyscrapers we got.

But I also see "if you build it, they will come" here... park being built, park tower and others immediately planned to surround it.

Premiere park we already have. We have this great green spine plus buffalo bayou coming right up to the western edge of downtown. A premiere park would be tearing down the bridges.. tunneling 45 under.... or making it higher, with more clearspan and more architectural and tunneling the cross streets... .. anything that gets rid of this tangle of concrete and connects Sam Houston Park to Eleanor Tinelsy to Buffalo Bayou Park. With that, having the skyline district eventually expanding along Allen Parkway to the south.

Improving downtown doesnt have to mean only filling in the confines of the freeway boundary we have set up for ourselves. It can also consists of redefining downtown... erasing some of the boundaries.

This park proposed.. yeah, its an okay start... but to think it can become a premiere park is name or in use is laughable.

** My 10 minute really poorly photoshopped premiere park....

EDIT : Oh !$@%.. this is in the wrong thread isnt it... the tower and the park thread have become so interwoven.. my bad !

Edited June 30, 2006 by Highway6

[Montrose1100]

from what i just posted above

it will probably take +/- 14 months to complete construction.

Thanks, my eyes & brain are just not what they use to be

[ricco67]

Its hard for me to get excited about 4 square blocks of obviously shaped green space.

It is 168th the size of Central Park.

The heart of the skyline district, where the majority of would be park users work, is 8 blocks away.

A premiere urban park should be alot more natural then what has been proposed. Isn't that the point of an urban park.. a temporary midday escape to nature... not something with mist trees, urban sculptures, and a pond so small you can have a conversation with someone on the opposite bank.

I do realize we dont have the real estate to plop a park right down in the middle of the skyscrapers we got.

But I also see "if you build it, they will come" here... park being built, park tower and others immediately planned to surround it.

Premiere park we already have. We have this great green spine plus buffalo bayou coming right up to the western edge of downtown. A premiere park would be tearing down the bridges.. tunneling 45 under.... or making it higher, with more clearspan and more architectural and tunneling the cross streets... .. anything that gets rid of this tangle of concrete and connects Sam Houston Park to Eleanor Tinelsy to Buffalo Bayou Park. With that, having the skyline district eventually expanding along Allen Parkway to the south.

Improving downtown doesnt have to mean only filling in the confines of the freeway boundary we have set up for ourselves. It can also consists of redefining downtown... erasing some of the boundaries.

This park proposed.. yeah, its an okay start... but to think it can become a premiere park is name or in use is laughable.

you also need to put into context as the differences of not only Houston and Central park, but WHEN central park was made. The park was made before NYC was as packed, and the buildings that WERE there were razed to make the park. Such a thing can't be done in this day and age.

If Houston the forsight as well as the population, it might have done it sooner. Houston had a great deal of land to travel to be "outdoors" whereas NYC at the time was nothing more than an Island with limited ability to go to the mainland and travel further out to see "forest".

Once again, you can't really compare Houston to any of the older cities such as New York or Philly.

[Highway6]

you also need to put into context as the differences of not only Houston and Central park, but WHEN central park was made. The park was made before NYC was as packed, and the buildings that WERE there were razed to make the park. Such a thing can't be done in this day and age.

If Houston the forsight as well as the population, it might have done it sooner. Houston had a great deal of land to travel to be "outdoors" whereas NYC at the time was nothing more than an Island with limited ability to go to the mainland and travel further out to see "forest".

Once again, you can't really compare Houston to any of the older cities such as New York or Philly.

Lower Manahattan.. their skyline district.. isnt exactly right up on Central Park. It is at one end.

I also reazlize as urban as it is, it isnt exactly a "downtown" park

I realize we cant bulldoze 800 acres to put up a park.

I am saying though that we should reazlie we already have it... or at least the great start of it.

We need better access.... tear down that wall, mr mayor... or least the bridges.

We need a plan... thanks to groups like buffalobayoupartnership.. we got a start there.

Once these are done, we should encourage growth along the green spine of the city.

Downtown growth shouldnt just be inside the freeways .... already happeneing with potential projects like Hardy Yards.

Im suggesting we improve the central park we have and encourage higher density growth along its borders.

Im suggesting we not pretend 4 square blocks of grass on the wrong end of downtown is going to make any significant impact.

Edited June 30, 2006 by Highway6

[Houston19514]

Lower Manahattan.. their skyline district.. isnt exactly right up on Central Park. It is at one end.

I also reazlize as urban as it is, it isnt exactly a "downtown" park

I realize we cant bulldoze 800 acres to put up a park.

I am saying though that we should reazlie we already have it... or at least the great start of it.

We need better access.... tear down that wall, mr mayor... or least the bridges.

We need a plan... thanks to groups like buffalobayoupartnership.. we got a start there.

Once these are done, we should encourage growth along the green spine of the city.

Downtown growth shouldnt just be inside the freeways .... already happeneing with potential projects like Hardy Yards.

Im suggesting we improve the central park we have and encourage higher density growth along its borders.

Im suggesting we not pretend 4 square blocks of grass on the wrong end of downtown is going to make any significant impact.

Have you looked at the plan for the park? It is decidedly not "4 square blocks of grass". In fact, most of the criticism of the plan seen on this board consisted of complaints about how little grass, and, conversely, how many activities were planned for the park. The comparisons to Central Park are tiresome and ridiculous. A more apt comparison is to Bryant Park, which is smaller than our new park and has at least as many activities packed in it. No knowledgeable person would suggest that Bryant Park is unsuccessfull or has no siginificant impact in its area.

Furthermore, if one is planning a park in part to have a positive impact on the development of an area, the "wrong end of downtown" is exactly where one should put it, not in the areas that are already developed.

And honestly, you look a little silly claiming that the park will have no significant impact, when it has sparked one high-rise apartment building soon to be under construction, and plans (and the purchase of property for) two additional high-rise residential buildings, all before construction of the park has even started. If that's "no significant impact," I say bring it on. We need more of that kind of non-impact.

[Houston19514]

okay, then i guess my source, whom i have complete faith in and who has personal, intimate knowledge of behind closed doors conversations, would give me an earlier date

i just passed along what ive heard, so take it fwiw and dont shoot the messenger.

Chill, man. I merely posted a plain fact that was recently posted on the park's website. No criticism, no emotion, and certainly no shooting of messengers... ;-)

[RedScare]

Wow. Houston has a "Central Park" twice the size of New York's, yet that is not good enough.

Memorial Park

This lowly piece of grass is approximately the same distance from downtown Houston as Central Park is to downtown New York. It is easily accessible by a picturesque parkway, by car, bus (virtually non-stop), and bicycle. It is one of the largest urban parks in the US.

I suppose some people just can't be pleased.

Oh, and for those that need mass transit to get to their Central Park, Hermann Park is a few stops south on METRORail.

Edited June 30, 2006 by RedScare

[Highway6]

Have you looked at the plan for the park? It is decidedly not "4 square blocks of grass". In fact, most of the criticism of the plan seen on this board consisted of complaints about how little grass, and, conversely, how many activities were planned for the park. The comparisons to Central Park are tiresome and ridiculous. A more apt comparison is to Bryant Park, which is smaller than our new park and has at least as many activities packed in it. No knowledgeable person would suggest that Bryant Park is unsuccessfull or has no siginificant impact in its area.

Furthermore, if one is planning a park in part to have a positive impact on the development of an area, the "wrong end of downtown" is exactly where one should put it, not in the areas that are already developed.

And honestly, you look a little silly claiming that the park will have no significant impact, when it has sparked one high-rise apartment building soon to be under construction, and plans (and the purchase of property for) two additional high-rise residential buildings, all before construction of the park has even started. If that's "no significant impact," I say bring it on. We need more of that kind of non-impact.

Trust me.. i was not comparing what we're going to have to Central Park. It is no central park.

I was responding to another poster mentioned that this would be our 'premiere park'.

If we want this to be a premiere park.. both in name, and use, and substance, i see no shame in taking parts of central park to strive for. And im not saying copy central park.. but i am saying what central park achieves, is the epitome of what makes an urban park successfull.

central park is so perfectly planned and constructed that you cant tell it is so perfectly planed and constructed.

I can see what we got is not just 4 square blocks of grass. This downtown park of ours though.. its too obvious, its too planned, too fake.

I was saying, as a urban park, central park is perfect in that once you enter it, you escape the city, it is so perfectly designed nature, that you believe you are in out in nature and not in the city. I think thats what a urban park should be... i dont think our 4 square blocks will amount to anything close to that.

And yes.. it is spawning growth.. i said it did already. But if a park will span growth.. then it doesnt hurt to have that growth also elswhere... where there more potential for a park/urban escape.

For it to premiere and significant.. than it has to have size to reach more people... otherwise its just a neighborhood park benefitting a few new residences and the convention center. I say its on the wrong side, because an urban park of size is much more possile along along the bayou and the current park space we have on the other end of downtown.

And the bigger buildings and more people are on the other side of downtown. And there is equal room for growth on the opposite side.

This wont be a 'premiere' urban park.. it will be underutilized .

Red...

I do agree with you. I love memorial park. I love buffalo bayou park. It is underappreicated.

And yes central park is equidistant from downtown as memorial.. and yet... central park is still surrounded by activity, plenty of access, plenty of residents....

memorial park is surrounded by freeways on two sides, and one of the richest groupings of private property and a bayou to the south.

Eventhough memorial park is bigger.. i'd love for you to dig up some use numbers for the two... lets not compare size but how underutilized our park is.

Edited July 3, 2006 by Highway6

[RedScare]

Red...

I do agree with you. I love memorial park. I love buffalo bayou park. It is underappreicated.

And yes central park is equidistant from downtown as memorial.. and yet... central park is still surrounded by activity, plenty of access, plenty of residents....

memorial park is surrounded by freeways on two sides, and one of the richest groupings of private property and a bayou to the south.

Eventhough memorial park is bigger.. i'd love for you to dig up some use numbers for the two... lets not compare size but how underutilized our park is.

Gee, I don't know. Let me guess...4 times as many New Yorkers use Central Park as Memorial Park. Sound about right to you?

I've got a better idea. Let's flood all of Houston except a 23 mile long strip in the middle. Then let's build a bunch of highrises on the resulting island, and then we'll put a park in the middle of it. Once that's done, I'll bet one and a half million people will want to live on that island.

Look, 6, Houston does not look like New York, and never will. Please get over it. If you don't like the parks, volunteer for the groups that oversee them. They'd love your help.

BTW, I completely disagree with BOTH your opinion on Memorial and the new park. The new one hasn't even started yet. How can you complain about an artist's rendering?

[Highway6]

Gee, I don't know. Let me guess...4 times as many New Yorkers use Central Park as Memorial Park. Sound about right to you?

I've got a better idea. Let's flood all of Houston except a 23 mile long strip in the middle. Then let's build a bunch of highrises on the resulting island, and then we'll put a park in the middle of it. Once that's done, I'll bet one and a half million people will want to live on that island.

Look, 6, Houston does not look like New York, and never will. Please get over it. If you don't like the parks, volunteer for the groups that oversee them. They'd love your help.

BTW, I completely disagree with BOTH your opinion on Memorial and the new park. The new one hasn't even started yet. How can you complain about an artist's rendering?

Thanks NMain for that drawing. If it works out that beautifully, I will totally elated about the project. Since it will be the premier park for downtown, it has to be the best.

Red.. another user said it would be our downtown's premiere park.. I was simply disagreeing and stating why.

I never said make nor tried to imply making houston into nyc. I was merely giving an example of what a premiere city park has that our new one doesn't.... mainly size. I love our parks here.. was just bemoaning the lack of use.

And im not arguing against a rendering.. im arguing against what the render represents.. which is a park due to size and location will never get a big draw from where the bulk of the people downtown are.

Yes.. it will spurn growth.. and that is good... but that still doent bring urban park to where the bulk of the people downtown are now...... which my answer to that is.. we already have the premiere park and potential park(bayou) closer to where the people are now... we just need to do a better job with bringing into into downtown by changing up access on that side of downtown and removing the manmade barriers to growth on that side of downtown.

Edited July 3, 2006 by Highway6

[MidtownCoog]

In HWS's defence, what he is talking about is connecting the dots. I have been saying this for years, but Houston has pockets of greatness.

What Houston has been unable to do so far is effectively connect the dots.

[Houston19514]

Red.. another user said it would be our downtown's premiere park.. I was simply disagreeing and stating why.

I never said make nor tried to imply making houston into nyc. I was merely giving an example of what a premiere city park has that our new one doesn't.... mainly size. I love our parks here.. was just bemoaning the lack of use.

And im not arguing against a rendering.. im arguing against what the render represents.. which is a park due to size and location will never get a big draw from where the bulk of the people downtown are.

Yes.. it will spurn growth.. and that is good... but that still doent bring urban park to where the bulk of the people downtown are now...... which my answer to that is.. we already have the premiere park and potential park(bayou) closer to where the people are now... we just need to do a better job with bringing into into downtown by changing up access on that side of downtown and removing the manmade barriers to growth on that side of downtown.

After all of your rambling in several posts, I can honestly say I have no idea what your point is.

[TheNiche]

After all of your rambling in several posts, I can honestly say I have no idea what your point is.

Ditto. I can tell that everyone is basing a whole lot of verbage upon some tiny shred of obscured reason, but jeez...get to the point already.

[Highway6]

The point.. We could do better as far as a downtown park is concerned.

[TheNiche]

The point.. We could do better as far as a downtown park is concerned.

Arguments are comprised of premises as well as conclusions.

I would gather that your argument is essentially this:

"Although the park is admittedly having a positive impact, if the City adheres to several key proposals (i.e. Buffalo Bayou Partnership & I-45 tunnelling) over the next decade or two, the impact of the 13-acre park adjacent to the GRB will appear miniscule in retrospect with respect to the public interest in the Downtown area."

Am I on the mark?

Edited July 4, 2006 by TheNiche

[Highway6]

Arguments are comprised of premises as well as conclusions.

I would gather that your argument is essentially this:

"Although the park is admittedly having a positive impact, if the City adheres to several key proposals (i.e. Buffalo Bayou Partnership & I-45 tunnelling) over the next decade or two, the impact of the 13-acre park adjacent to the GRB will appear miniscule in retrospect with respect to the public interest in the Downtown area."

Am I on the mark?

Isn't that what I said.. admittedly in about 5x the space.

But thats too simple.. i was trying to back it up with examples while at the same time thwarting off naysayers.

[nmainguy]

The point.. We could do better as far as a downtown park is concerned.

Of course we can always do better. Our new park-if you are into comparisons with NYC-is more akin to Bryant Park, only larger. More activities in the space allowed.

So for now this is what we have. One day-hopefully-I45 will be removed from Sam Houston Park and the city's "frontyard" will be allowed to develop as it always should have.

[Houston19514]

Isn't that what I said.. admittedly in about 5x the space.

But thats too simple.. i was trying to back it up with examples while at the same time thwarting off naysayers.

Interesting, except of course you said nothing like that at all. Far from acknowledging that the downtown park will have any positive impact, you in fact suggested that we should "not pretend 4 square blocks of grass on the wrong end of downtown is going to make any significant impact." You seem unduly obseessed with the word premiere (and for that matter with NYC's Central Park, while simultaneously telling us you are not comparing anything in Houston to Central Park). Is there a reason downtown Houston cannot have two outstanding parks, serving different purposes and different "communities", one at the front door and one at the back door, so to speak? After all, the Buffalo Bayou Plan is proceeding at the same time as the new downtown park is being developed. (Would it make you happy that the Downtown Park Conservancy actually refers to the park as Houston's "backyard"? By implication that makes your hallowed Buffalo Bayou Park the "frontyard", maybe even the "premiere park" ;-)

I guess I'm still trying to understand your point, and I'm thinking I'm not alone.

[Highway6]

I have no problem with "Is there a reason downtown Houston cannot have two outstanding parks, serving different purposes and different "communities", one at the front door and one at the back door, so to speak?"

Several small parks.. of course that is fine.

The only reason I responded was another poster mentioned "premiere".. which im not obsessed with that word.. but his post implied that this would be the most amazing and signifcant piece of grass to hit houston in 50 years.

I was simply.. or not so simply.. disagreeing with him and stating that i thought better would come along.

Edited July 4, 2006 by Highway6

[2112]

This is all great and wholesome. But the real important thing here is that - I just saved a lot on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

[Highway6]

This is all great and wholesome. But the real important thing here is that - I just saved a lot on my car insurance by switching to Geico.

Geico is so small and insignificant...... it will have zero impact... why all the hoopla......

kidddin

[RedScare]

The new Downtown Park needs a name, so like everything else these days, the Public gets to suggest the name! Here's the entry form...

http://www.chron.com/banners/images/contests/namethepark/

The winner gets dinner at the new park restaurant and some Astros gear (hope they're not giving away '2005 World Series Champs' T-shirts). I may not know what the best name for the park is, but I DO know what the worst names are. Hopefully, they steer clear of political science (Liberty, Freedom, Democracy), boosterism (Spirit of Houston, Houston Proud), and political correctness (Diversity, Rainbow, Friendship), and downright campy (Millenium + 6, 2K6, Central).

I've always liked parks named after some old historical figure, like Hermann, But, it has to be a really old person, and they have to be dead. I don't know if Jesse Jones has a park, but there are few, if any Houston icons who did more to bring Houston from its backwater beginnings to its modern big city status, so I'll be hard pressed to top that name.

However, in true HAIF fashion, we should be able to come up with a unique, unforgettable name...I mean, we DID come up with 'Big Head On Main Street', didn't we?

Edited August 22, 2006 by RedScare

[ProHouston]

How about Park 1836?

[Highway6]

How bout

"Treaty of Velasco Greens"

or "Bagwell Park" ?

One of the eternally pessimistic naysayers at Blog Houston came up with

"The Bill White Vermin And Solid Waste Memorial Park"

[DragonPhish]

My entry would be