Yet another Houston vs Dallas thread. Blah blah blah

[Houston19514]

14 hours ago, monarch said:

^^^ actually, we are all "scratching our heads" wondering just when are they going to break ground... and start constructing the long awaited... RIVER OAKS DISTRICT HOTEL.  heck, if this was dallas or austin, the hotel would not just be completely constructed, it would be a monumental significant brand catering to the most elite patrons.  at times, houston seems to be just too damn lethargic, bureaucratic, and complacent.  sure, enough, we have ALL faced some very difficult past couple of years per se.  however, ROD is a very beautiful and significant development that should be moving forward... not surrendering.  JUST CONSTRUCT THE DAMN HOTEL ALREADY...

 

Yes, don’t you just LOVE Dallas’s two Mandarin Orientals, the Four Seasons, the St.Regis, the hotel at Highland Park Village .  . .  Oh, and that new hotel in the former Morning News building . . .   😉.    (For the curious, all of the hotels I listed have been planned in central Dallas in recent years. None of them have started construction.  And I’m sure I’ve missed some.)

[KinkaidAlum]

Dallas has several brands we currently do not have including Ritz-Carlton, Fairmont, W, Rosewood, Kimpton, and Virgin. 

[HOUCAJUN]

4 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Dallas has several brands we currently do not have including Ritz-Carlton, Fairmont, W, Rosewood, Kimpton, and Virgin. 

Whose fault is this?

[Big E]

5 hours ago, HOUCAJUN said:

Whose fault is this?

Hard to say. Despite being the fourth largest city in the country, the general prevailing attitude among the scions of business and powers that be seems to be that Houston gets no tourists. This was pretty much the all but stated reason why Houston, despite being home to NASA, got passed over for exhibiting any of the retired space shuttles, despite a prolonged bidding process. Said the rat weasel and former NASA head Charles Bolden:

Quote

This was a very difficult decision, but one that was made with the American public in mind. In the end, these choices provide the greatest number of people with the best opportunity to share in the history and accomplishments of NASA s remarkable Space Shuttle Program. These facilities we've chosen have a noteworthy legacy of preserving space artifacts and providing outstanding access to U.S. and international visitors.

Houston gets no tourists, so Houston gets no shuttle. Houston doesn't get hotels either.

[Twinsanity02]

Houston is massive and has impressive regions: The Texas Medical center, the gigantic petrochemical complex and shipping channel, Downtown and Uptown with gleaming skyscrapers, and NASA. These are all serious economic engines. Regardless, they are not fun or "sexy" areas tourists like to visit (except for NASA). Until a few years back Houston did not even consider its downtown anything but a work place destination which vacated after 6:00 pm (except for the Theater district). Progress has been made in making the city more fun, but not at the level of NYC, Nola, or Miami. Most probable we will never reach that level of attraction. I must admit I am stumped regarding DFW. I would give DFW the same attributes of impressiveness as Houston but do not understand the attraction tourist have for it. Perhaps someone in this forum knows.

[august948]

10 hours ago, Big E said:

Hard to say. Despite being the fourth largest city in the country, the general prevailing attitude among the scions of business and powers that be seems to be that Houston gets no tourists. This was pretty much the all but stated reason why Houston, despite being home to NASA, got passed over for exhibiting any of the retired space shuttles, despite a prolonged bidding process. Said the rat weasel and former NASA head Charles Bolden:

Houston gets no tourists, so Houston gets no shuttle. Houston doesn't get hotels either.

I was disappointed at first when I heard we weren't getting the Enterprise shuttle, but what we got was so much cooler...

[KinkaidAlum]

Reasons why Dallas and DFW have more hotel options include;

1) It is a regional hub for finance and merchandising. If you work in the design field anywhere in the region, you will often have to travel to Dallas for sources and the large Merchandising Market trade shows. I've been at least a dozen times when I owned a retail store. When I renovated my Houston house, I also had to travel to Dallas overnight for showroom visits to places like Waterworks that don't (at least didn't) exist in Houston. 

2) It takes advantage of a more central location and the huge airport to land large conventions.

3) It takes advantage of its location to host lots of large scale sporting events including 4 bowl games, 3 NCAA conference tournament championships, PGA events, etc...

4) It is less international and filled with a lot more folks from nearby places meaning it gets more frequent "friends and family" visitors. 

5) It is a regional entertainment draw with things like a large amusement park that we lack. 

6) It's an educational hub with two schools with lots of out of state students  (SMU and TCU) and several large public universities in the region (UT-D, UT-Arlington, North Texas)

Lastly, Dallas has a reputation for glitz and glamor that Houston lacks. It makes it a safer choice for brands to test the Texas market. We've always taken a back seat and the rise of Austin isn't helping.

That said, Houston is improving in so many ways. For too many years we were simply ok with being a place people came to make money but didn't plan on sticking around. But the last two decades have seen massive improvements with quality of life issues that have made Houston so much better. The continued growth of the TMC, stealing away XOM, the planned growth for Rice, and UH's improving standing will all help. Additionally, word is out that Houston is an incredible place for food and art. I've met a growing number of people who have visited specifically for the Menil and restaurants. We should play that up hard.

[HOUCAJUN]

4 hours ago, KinkaidAlum said:

Reasons why Dallas and DFW have more hotel options include;

1) It is a regional hub for finance and merchandising. If you work in the design field anywhere in the region, you will often have to travel to Dallas for sources and the large Merchandising Market trade shows. I've been at least a dozen times when I owned a retail store. When I renovated my Houston house, I also had to travel to Dallas overnight for showroom visits to places like Waterworks that don't (at least didn't) exist in Houston. 

2) It takes advantage of a more central location and the huge airport to land large conventions.

3) It takes advantage of its location to host lots of large scale sporting events including 4 bowl games, 3 NCAA conference tournament championships, PGA events, etc...

4) It is less international and filled with a lot more folks from nearby places meaning it gets more frequent "friends and family" visitors. 

5) It is a regional entertainment draw with things like a large amusement park that we lack. 

6) It's an educational hub with two schools with lots of out of state students  (SMU and TCU) and several large public universities in the region (UT-D, UT-Arlington, North Texas)

Lastly, Dallas has a reputation for glitz and glamor that Houston lacks. It makes it a safer choice for brands to test the Texas market. We've always taken a back seat and the rise of Austin isn't helping.

That said, Houston is improving in so many ways. For too many years we were simply ok with being a place people came to make money but didn't plan on sticking around. But the last two decades have seen massive improvements with quality of life issues that have made Houston so much better. The continued growth of the TMC, stealing away XOM, the planned growth for Rice, and UH's improving standing will all help. Additionally, word is out that Houston is an incredible place for food and art. I've met a growing number of people who have visited specifically for the Menil and restaurants. We should play that up hard.

In the black community, Houston ranks higher than Dallas in coolness and things to do. Although Houston has done a 360 in its reputation, it's still slower in certain things. Often times we we're mentioning Dallas can we please leave Arlington and Fort Worth out of the discussion. 

[Houston19514]

Houstonians (and especially HAIFers) tend to exaggerate the ways in which Houston supposedly doesn't measure up to other cities. For example, while true that Dallas has several hotel flags Houston does not have; the reverse is also true.  Yes, Dallas has more higher-end hotels than we, but the difference is often exaggerated.

Dallas has no St. Regis. As of the end of this year, Dallas will have no Four Seasons. We also have The Post Oak, The Houstonian, and Hotel Granduca, which each fly only their own flag, AFAIK.

Similarly, we have in fact not always taken a back seat to Dallas when it comes to high-end shopping locations (one would get that idea if one relied on the Chronicle (and Dallas Morning News) for their information, but it isn't reality.) We've actually been pretty even over the years at being the first/only Texas location.

As a slight aside, the DMN is very boosterish about Dallas and will report store openings as being the first or only in Texas, even when it's not true; (in fact, they just did it today).  The Chron, on the other hand, is more likely to either leave that fact out, even when true, or incorrectly report that Dallas is ahead of us.

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Houston19514

[mattyt36]

On 6/12/2022 at 4:11 PM, KinkaidAlum said:

Reasons why Dallas and DFW have more hotel options include;

1) It is a regional hub for finance and merchandising. If you work in the design field anywhere in the region, you will often have to travel to Dallas for sources and the large Merchandising Market trade shows. I've been at least a dozen times when I owned a retail store. When I renovated my Houston house, I also had to travel to Dallas overnight for showroom visits to places like Waterworks that don't (at least didn't) exist in Houston. 

2) It takes advantage of a more central location and the huge airport to land large conventions.

3) It takes advantage of its location to host lots of large scale sporting events including 4 bowl games, 3 NCAA conference tournament championships, PGA events, etc...

4) It is less international and filled with a lot more folks from nearby places meaning it gets more frequent "friends and family" visitors. 

5) It is a regional entertainment draw with things like a large amusement park that we lack. 

6) It's an educational hub with two schools with lots of out of state students  (SMU and TCU) and several large public universities in the region (UT-D, UT-Arlington, North Texas)

Lastly, Dallas has a reputation for glitz and glamor that Houston lacks. It makes it a safer choice for brands to test the Texas market. We've always taken a back seat and the rise of Austin isn't helping.

That said, Houston is improving in so many ways. For too many years we were simply ok with being a place people came to make money but didn't plan on sticking around. But the last two decades have seen massive improvements with quality of life issues that have made Houston so much better. The continued growth of the TMC, stealing away XOM, the planned growth for Rice, and UH's improving standing will all help. Additionally, word is out that Houston is an incredible place for food and art. I've met a growing number of people who have visited specifically for the Menil and restaurants. We should play that up hard.

From my observations (which admittedly are always biased and sometimes dangerous), it seems to me that Austin rising in prominence has hurt Dallas's image way more than Houston's.  It doesn't seem to me that Dallas is getting the same level of national "press" or exposure as it was even a decade ago, notwithstanding it being the best performing big MSA economy in the country.  "Glitz" and "glamor" and "Texas" may have meant Dallas 10 years ago, but now it's Austin.  Seems to me like most people outside of Texas have a very "blah" perception of Dallas.  Somehow this development has coincided with Houston getting widely positive press for the first time since the 1970s. 

Incidentally, it's not often I meet anyone who lives there who have anything really positive to say . . . it's one of those regions where, if someone is from a suburb, they say they're from there versus the metro region, e.g., "I'm from Flower Mound" or "I'm from Plano," not "I'm from Dallas"--I think most people in the Houston MSA, even if they live in suburbs will say they're from Houston.  Almost to a person, all these people will tell you how much they hate Dallas, too, as if it's an entirely different place than where they live.

I think this podcast pretty much sums it up . . . I mean it literally quotes someone as saying they sometimes "cry themselves to sleep every night" because they moved from NYC to Frisco, but "hey, the housing's cheap."  I'd say the podcast producers almost went out of their way to make Dallas sound so blah . . . the City of Dallas itself is fine to live in (IMO), but boy is it surrounded by some not nice places to live (IMO), with some pretty radical people (IMO).  At the end of the day, Dallas has become a MIdwestern city.

Why Is Everyone Moving to Dallas? - Freakonomics

How Dallas-Fort Worth is poised to dominate America’s heartland | The Kinder Institute for Urban Research (rice.edu)

See also this thread from today: 

[editor]

I have removed the off-topic Dallas-centric posts from the River Oaks shopping thread into this shiny new thread.

If you don't want people to think that Houston has an inferiority complex, then perhaps you should stop compulsively comparing yourselves to Dallas.

[mattyt36]

52 minutes ago, editor said:

If you don't want people to think that Houston has an inferiority complex, then perhaps you should stop compulsively comparing yourselves to Dallas.

Well, that's one read, I suppose.  

Edited June 14, 2022 by mattyt36

[H-Town Man]

I was in town last weekend with my Dallas-born-and-raised wife. My wife generally doesn't like Dallas and kind of likes Houston, mainly because I've shown her all the good things. We stayed downtown and had a good time. Then we went to visit some of my relatives and I drove up Veterans Memorial, from I-45 to Spring area. I may have seen a few roads in America that had as much slovenliness and decay, but I don't remember when. Pretty early in the drive, my wife commented, "One thing about Dallas is that you would never see any place look like this." There were buildings that looked like they had been falling down for a decade, waiting for someone to clear them away. There were overgrown weeds in almost every parking lot. There were abandoned billboards - one right next to Cypress Creek - that were just rotting on their poles. Made me miss the nice pretty billboards in better areas of Houston. The only place on the whole road where the grass was mowed and fences and other site improvements were in good order was the V.A. national cemetery, and I thought it must be an awful fate for any soldier to end up buried on that road.

Before anyone says, "Well that's just one bad street," I'm sure you can find similar sights on Airline Drive, West Little York, North Shepherd, Aldine-Bender, or just about any other commercial thoroughfare in that region of the city. FM 1960 is probably well on its way there, I didn't drive down it to see. The only places I can think of where I've ever seen anything like it are a few towns in East Texas like Lufkin or Hearne.

I'm not sure how much even zoning would help. I guess it would prevent people building new colorful stucco buildings in the middle of shopping center parking lots and leaving the buildings behind them to wither away from lack of visibility. Might also help to keep each shopping center having just one sign instead of a bunch of extra homemade signs, half of which have been abandoned and forgotten about. I think the biggest thing that would help is if you had incorporated cities in the suburbs that would take responsibility for not letting their city look horrible. Garland or Mesquite in Dallas probably have about the same income levels as this part of Houston but Garland and Mesquite are not going to let their commercial roads just descend into squalor.

Edited June 14, 2022 by H-Town Man

[s3mh]

For what it is worth, I have always felt that Dallas leaned more towards the East Coast with a more traditional old money approach to wealth with everyone trying to chase status symbols (country clubs, preppy clothes, etc.).  Houston is much more of a "come as you are" city with a lot of new wealth that isn't as concerned with East Coast status symbols.  This is also a function of the dominant employers.  In Houston, O&G engineers, geologists, etc. wear a blue dress shirt and khaki dress pants.  In Dallas, people in finance and insurance will suit up more often as that is the uniform in financial centers like NYC.  

As far as development goes, Houston is a boom and bust town that has traditionally struggled to attract long bets, but has shown a  lot of improvement over the past 20 years.  Dallas has been more insulated from oil and gas volatility and other than the S&L crisis has managed to have a more sustained and dependable growth than Houston.  So, people in Dallas place a priority on the big high end projects and the money is there to get it done.  But Houston is definitely catching up in its own way.  I think Houston aspires to be more like LA and Dallas looks to the East Coast more.  And Dallas definitely has tourism.  Fort Worth rebuilt its downtown with conventions and stockyard visitors.  Dallas has the JFK stuff, although it is still amazing how downtown Dallas is still scarred by the trophy towers from the S&L days.  

But to be clear, Dallas sucks.  

[mattyt36]

2 hours ago, s3mh said:

For what it is worth, I have always felt that Dallas leaned more towards the East Coast with a more traditional old money approach to wealth with everyone trying to chase status symbols (country clubs, preppy clothes, etc.).  Houston is much more of a "come as you are" city with a lot of new wealth that isn't as concerned with East Coast status symbols.  This is also a function of the dominant employers.  In Houston, O&G engineers, geologists, etc. wear a blue dress shirt and khaki dress pants.  In Dallas, people in finance and insurance will suit up more often as that is the uniform in financial centers like NYC.  

As far as development goes, Houston is a boom and bust town that has traditionally struggled to attract long bets, but has shown a  lot of improvement over the past 20 years.  Dallas has been more insulated from oil and gas volatility and other than the S&L crisis has managed to have a more sustained and dependable growth than Houston.  So, people in Dallas place a priority on the big high end projects and the money is there to get it done.  But Houston is definitely catching up in its own way.  I think Houston aspires to be more like LA and Dallas looks to the East Coast more.  And Dallas definitely has tourism.  Fort Worth rebuilt its downtown with conventions and stockyard visitors.  Dallas has the JFK stuff, although it is still amazing how downtown Dallas is still scarred by the trophy towers from the S&L days.  

But to be clear, Dallas sucks.  

Yeah, I think it's more about the fact that the 1980s were a completely lost decade for Houston (City population growth only 2.2% in the 1980s, MSA population growth 13.7%), not nearly as much for Dallas (City population growth 11.4%, MSA population growth 30.6%).  A lot of the 1960s-1970s residential development inside the Beltway and outside the Loop must have had to be built so fast and was of relatively low quality to provide housing for the huge population increase, then once the bottom fell out in the 1980s, they were the first to go and people moved even farther out to master-planned communities for "protection" against the same thing happening again.  As @H-Town Man said, Dallas has plenty of neighborhoods with similar housing stock (tract homes), but they seem to have weathered the 1980s storm much better than Houston. 

Of course, I have no basis other than mere observation for any of the above.

[H-Town Man]

4 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

Yeah, I think it's more about the fact that the 1980s were a completely lost decade for Houston (City population growth only 2.2% in the 1980s, MSA population growth 13.7%), not nearly as much for Dallas (City population growth 11.4%, MSA population growth 30.6%).  A lot of the 1960s-1970s residential development inside the Beltway and outside the Loop must have had to be built so fast and was of relatively low quality to provide housing for the huge population increase, then once the bottom fell out in the 1980s, they were the first to go and people moved even farther out to master-planned communities for "protection" against the same thing happening again.  As @H-Town Man said, Dallas has plenty of neighborhoods with similar housing stock (tract homes), but they seem to have weathered the 1980s storm much better than Houston. 

Of course, I have no basis other than mere observation for any of the above.

It is true that the 80's were a lost decade, and that is when a lot of Veterans Memorial was developed (mostly 70's - early 80's), and having properties foreclosed on didn't help matters. But this road did not look nearly as bad even in the late 90's. And none of that explains why certain things look so terrible now. If you are a landlord in this area, why not get out a weed whacker and a few cans of Sherwin-Williams? The reason why you don't is because nobody else does, which is because it is just accepted in this area that that is how things look. 

My aunt laments that the Half Price Books at FM 1960 and Veterans Memorial finally shut down after 25 years. Yeah, I wonder why. People living in wastelands don't generally read books. The two things just don't go together. I was in absolute shock that Anthonie's sandwich shop (one of the original Antone's) was still there after 40 years. What a story that old guy could tell.

And it's not a completely lost cause. Certain areas would look almost quaint and charming if people just fixed them up. Like the area around the Bammel N. Houston intersection, with all those little flex warehouses. Weed wacker. Fresh paint. Power washer. 

[mattyt36]

26 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

It is true that the 80's were a lost decade, and that is when a lot of Veterans Memorial was developed (mostly 70's - early 80's), and having properties foreclosed on didn't help matters. But this road did not look nearly as bad even in the late 90's. And none of that explains why certain things look so terrible now. If you are a landlord in this area, why not get out a weed whacker and a few cans of Sherwin-Williams? The reason why you don't is because nobody else does, which is because it is just accepted in this area that that is how things look.

It certainly doesn't explain everything, but I think saying it explains "none" is a bit of an overstatement.  (Understatement?)

If the housing stock isn't great, housing values aren't keeping pace with the rest of the metro area, and it's becoming more transitory and occupied by renters versus owners, I'd say none of that helps.  Neighborhoods don't exactly "crash" overnight, and the 1980s and 1990s 1960 area had a much more prominent role as a regional activity center than it has now.  Not arguing with the idea of getting out a weed whacker or some paint by any means, but I can't say I'm surprised--the reverse "free rider" problem you refer to is certainly real--it needs a coordinated effort to be successful, and I'm sure there are some neighborhoods that are more or less intact.  But, at the end of the day, the 1960 area is not exactly the most inviting place to live, certainly not by today's standards of what people want (middle class people wanted different things in the 1980s), nor is it as convenient to employment centers as it once arguably was.  I mean, isn't it essentially the same thing that happened to a place like Alief, but a decade or two later?

Maybe it'll eventually see some investment return, but I'm not sure as to the "theory of the case" for that one.

Does the Dallas region really have anything that's comparable to the size and population of unincorporated Harris County?  It's probably a lot easier for smaller municipalities like Euless, Garland, etc. to maintain roadways than the county, but, again, I have nothing to back that supposition up.

Edited June 14, 2022 by mattyt36

[hindesky]

Caterpillar is moving its headquarters from Illinois to Dallas Ft. Worth.

https://www.bisnow.com/dallas-ft-worth/news/construction-development/caterpillar-inc-plans-to-move-hq-from-illinois-to-dallas-fort-worth-113399

[H-Town Man]

2 hours ago, mattyt36 said:

It certainly doesn't explain everything, but I think saying it explains "none" is a bit of an overstatement.  (Understatement?)

If the housing stock isn't great, housing values aren't keeping pace with the rest of the metro area, and it's becoming more transitory and occupied by renters versus owners, I'd say none of that helps.  Neighborhoods don't exactly "crash" overnight, and the 1980s and 1990s 1960 area had a much more prominent role as a regional activity center than it has now.  Not arguing with the idea of getting out a weed whacker or some paint by any means, but I can't say I'm surprised--the reverse "free rider" problem you refer to is certainly real--it needs a coordinated effort to be successful, and I'm sure there are some neighborhoods that are more or less intact.  But, at the end of the day, the 1960 area is not exactly the most inviting place to live, certainly not by today's standards of what people want (middle class people wanted different things in the 1980s), nor is it as convenient to employment centers as it once arguably was.  I mean, isn't it essentially the same thing that happened to a place like Alief, but a decade or two later?

Maybe it'll eventually see some investment return, but I'm not sure as to the "theory of the case" for that one.

Does the Dallas region really have anything that's comparable to the size and population of unincorporated Harris County?  It's probably a lot easier for smaller municipalities like Euless, Garland, etc. to maintain roadways than the county, but, again, I have nothing to back that supposition up.

To explain my use of the word "none," I was saying that a lost decade between the early 80's and early 90's does not explain why the appearance of the area drastically declined between the late 90's and early 2020's. I mean, there might be some vague causal relationships, but nothing really apparent.

I think your last point echoes something I said earlier. The presence of many small incorporated areas in the suburbs instead of a vast unincorporated area makes it a lot easier for initiatives to "clean things up" to take root. If Garland for instance starts getting too much uglier than Rowlett, Garland is going to take action to clean things up. And then Richardson takes notice because they want to maintain their lead over Garland, etc. We have to some extent overcome this with management districts, but management districts don't tap into local pride the way incorporated cities do. 

[strickn]

On 6/13/2022 at 9:23 AM, Houston19514 said:

Yes, Dallas has more higher-end hotels than we, but the difference is often exaggerated.

Dallas has no St. Regis. As of the end of this year, Dallas will have no Four Seasons. We also …

 

Kind of a waste of time trying to make your point this way, since you clearly knew enough to know that that’s not the actual upshot of the situation https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2022/01/four-seasons-to-step-away-from-las-colinas-resort/

Edited June 16, 2022 by strickn

[Houston19514]

11 hours ago, strickn said:

Kind of a waste of time trying to make your point this way, since you clearly knew enough to know that that’s not the actual upshot of the situation https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2022/01/four-seasons-to-step-away-from-las-colinas-resort/

For the purposes of the comparison of which city has which hotel flags, the only upshot of the situation is that Dallas will no longer have a Four Seasons Hotel.

[mattyt36]

I came across this gem of an article from Texas Monthly from 1978.  It's actually a great piece of writing, I think much of it tongue-in-cheek.

Dallas Is Better Than Houston – Texas Monthly

Some of the best parts:

"In Dallas you can live an abundant life and not drive the freeways at all."  (This is just laughable, and it surely must have been laughable in 1978.)

"Houston destroys individuality . . . Houston is now national and international corporations with the caution yet ruthlessness inherent in such machines. No soul, no heart, no mind. All hands, mouths, and computer brains. Faceless people sit in interchangeable tall buildings above Houston doing the same things people in the same kind of buildings do anywhere in the world. Today no Houston individual can match personal economics or powers with the people in the towers. Howard Hughes is dead on arrival in Houston; Glenn McCarthy lives in a house by a mosquito bay."

"Native sons and daughters are harder and harder to find. You talk to an ambitious young jogger on the Memorial Park path (he’s in banking) and you learn what a tremendous future Houston (not Texas) has."  (I'd say this idea of "Houston First," ahead of Texas is still true.)

"Houston has become un-Texan, no longer looking to its Texas roots—or caring. Maybe this sense of native soil is no longer very important to the residents of Houston-—it’s certainly not to the leaders—but to other Texans, it leaves a gaping hole in life when you must dwell in a Texas city that acts ashamed to admit it’s Texan."

"And no little people are on the way up, that you can find. Not that Houston isn’t a blue-collar town, statistically speaking. But you don’t come in off the farm anymore from some little place like Sweeney or El Campo and zoom to takeoff in the new Houston. But even if you decide to gamble and take on the big town one-handed, you find it’s too flung out to make a dent. Even a secondhand car dealer, screaming like mad, can’t get on the tube and make a name for himself, or a fortune. Neatness counts. You don’t smell cow manure on the elevators of Shell Plaza or Pennzoil Place. Good ol’ boys still make it in Dallas; the good ol’ boys that come out of East Texas State and UT-Arlington to arm wrestle the establishment, who catch the bus in from Winnsboro and come looking for the foot of the ladder. That sort of thing is gone in Houston. The minimum price of admission to the shooting gallery is a UT law school sheepskin."

"It’s impossible to be a Cowboy cult follower and remain a racial bigot."  🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

"But I find more adventure to living in Dallas than Houston seems to offer—outside the thrilling prospect of getting murdered, a statistical nicety at which Houston annually surpasses Dallas. Dallas is still in the possession of its citizenry, run by people who consider themselves Dallasites. Houston belongs to someone else."

"Six Flags Over Texas is still the classiest amusement park in America"

AND MY PERSONAL FAVORITE QUOTE

Most Houstonians will spend eternity in hell.

—Billy Graham

Here is the rebuttal article

Houston is Better Than Dallas – Texas Monthly

There are a couple of zingers, but not as well written or enjoyable:

"By the end of the century, the likes of Denton, Diboll, and Daingerfield will be vying for the title of Big D." 

"It is not surprising that Dallas has turned increasingly to Jesus. Headquarters of the Baptist General Convention of Texas for many years, Dallas is now the home city for hundreds of different Gospel Retreat Convention Temple Conference Revival Revelation Pentecostal Proof Redemption and Glorious Miracle Healing Centers. With no apparent reason for its origin and little excuse for its continued existence, Dallas has nowhere else to turn."

[strickn]

Well, after twenty lost seasons, we should at least hang up the Texans moniker, and with it our unsuccessful attempt to grab some loyalty from statewide NFL fans…

[strickn]

Presenting the Houston Slimes and their animatronic mascot Young Marvin Zindler 

 

[kennyc05]

3 hours ago, strickn said:

Well, after twenty lost seasons, we should at least hang up the Texans moniker, and with it our unsuccessful attempt to grab some loyalty from statewide NFL fans…

I wish they would rebrand.

[hindesky]

Houston area took Exxon from dfw, they can have those other little rinky dink bottom feeders of the Fortune 1000 companies. 🤑

[august948]

8 hours ago, mattyt36 said:

I came across this gem of an article from Texas Monthly from 1978.  It's actually a great piece of writing, I think much of it tongue-in-cheek.

Dallas Is Better Than Houston – Texas Monthly

Some of the best parts:

"In Dallas you can live an abundant life and not drive the freeways at all."  (This is just laughable, and it surely must have been laughable in 1978.)

"Houston destroys individuality . . . Houston is now national and international corporations with the caution yet ruthlessness inherent in such machines. No soul, no heart, no mind. All hands, mouths, and computer brains. Faceless people sit in interchangeable tall buildings above Houston doing the same things people in the same kind of buildings do anywhere in the world. Today no Houston individual can match personal economics or powers with the people in the towers. Howard Hughes is dead on arrival in Houston; Glenn McCarthy lives in a house by a mosquito bay."

"Native sons and daughters are harder and harder to find. You talk to an ambitious young jogger on the Memorial Park path (he’s in banking) and you learn what a tremendous future Houston (not Texas) has."  (I'd say this idea of "Houston First," ahead of Texas is still true.)

"Houston has become un-Texan, no longer looking to its Texas roots—or caring. Maybe this sense of native soil is no longer very important to the residents of Houston-—it’s certainly not to the leaders—but to other Texans, it leaves a gaping hole in life when you must dwell in a Texas city that acts ashamed to admit it’s Texan."

"And no little people are on the way up, that you can find. Not that Houston isn’t a blue-collar town, statistically speaking. But you don’t come in off the farm anymore from some little place like Sweeney or El Campo and zoom to takeoff in the new Houston. But even if you decide to gamble and take on the big town one-handed, you find it’s too flung out to make a dent. Even a secondhand car dealer, screaming like mad, can’t get on the tube and make a name for himself, or a fortune. Neatness counts. You don’t smell cow manure on the elevators of Shell Plaza or Pennzoil Place. Good ol’ boys still make it in Dallas; the good ol’ boys that come out of East Texas State and UT-Arlington to arm wrestle the establishment, who catch the bus in from Winnsboro and come looking for the foot of the ladder. That sort of thing is gone in Houston. The minimum price of admission to the shooting gallery is a UT law school sheepskin."

"It’s impossible to be a Cowboy cult follower and remain a racial bigot."  🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

"But I find more adventure to living in Dallas than Houston seems to offer—outside the thrilling prospect of getting murdered, a statistical nicety at which Houston annually surpasses Dallas. Dallas is still in the possession of its citizenry, run by people who consider themselves Dallasites. Houston belongs to someone else."

"Six Flags Over Texas is still the classiest amusement park in America"

AND MY PERSONAL FAVORITE QUOTE

Most Houstonians will spend eternity in hell.

—Billy Graham

Here is the rebuttal article

Houston is Better Than Dallas – Texas Monthly

There are a couple of zingers, but not as well written or enjoyable:

"By the end of the century, the likes of Denton, Diboll, and Daingerfield will be vying for the title of Big D." 

"It is not surprising that Dallas has turned increasingly to Jesus. Headquarters of the Baptist General Convention of Texas for many years, Dallas is now the home city for hundreds of different Gospel Retreat Convention Temple Conference Revival Revelation Pentecostal Proof Redemption and Glorious Miracle Healing Centers. With no apparent reason for its origin and little excuse for its continued existence, Dallas has nowhere else to turn."

Best part...."You don’t smell cow manure on the elevators of Shell Plaza or Pennzoil Place."

And that's Houston for the win!

[mkultra25]

20 hours ago, kennyc05 said:

I wish they would rebrand.

I wish they would've come up with a more original name to begin with. We should've known what was coming when the best they could do was recycle a fifty-year-old name from a God-awful Dallas team that went 1-11 before being put out of its misery.

[mattyt36]

46 minutes ago, mkultra25 said:

I wish they would've come up with a more original name to begin with. We should've known what was coming when the best they could do was recycle a fifty-year-old name from a God-awful Dallas team that went 1-11 before being put out of its misery.

The reverse of the Dallas Mavericks, which were named after (after meaning sequentially) the original Houston Mavericks ABA team, which played 1967-69.

Houston Mavericks - Wikipedia

[kennyc05]

4 hours ago, mkultra25 said:

I wish they would've come up with a more original name to begin with. We should've known what was coming when the best they could do was recycle a fifty-year-old name from a God-awful Dallas team that went 1-11 before being put out of its misery.

It's a dumbass name excuse my language. They should have went with Apollo's.

3 hours ago, mattyt36 said:

The reverse of the Dallas Mavericks, which were named after (after meaning sequentially) the original Houston Mavericks ABA team, which played 1967-69.

Houston Mavericks - Wikipedia

I'm glad we dodged the bullet in that 🤢