11th Street Bike Lanes

[Ross]

20 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I drove 11th Street tonight at 6:00 from Michaux to N. Shepherd.  Michaux to Yale was fine, and contrary to what another poster mentioned you can still turn right on Heights Blvd. from 11th street.

Now Yale to N. Shepherd on 11th was a disaster.  Cars were backed up several blocks due to the light on N. Shepherd.  I turned left into the neighborhood and then made a right on 10th to get to my destination.  Normally I would turn left on Dorothy but the backed up traffic was ridiculous.  Guess what I did on my return trip…I came back on 10th Street to avoid 11th.  Sorry to my neighbors that live on 10th Street!

When I drove past there today, they were outlining a median that will block left turns from 11th onto Dorothy from either direction.

4 hours ago, s3mh said:

Covering the ditches is the reason the ROW is insufficient.  You have to curb and gutter the street if you are going to cover drainage ditches.  Otherwise the streets will turn into lakes whenever there is a decent downpour.  Curb and guttering streets is about a million for a few blocks.  It would be infinitely more expensive to put a bike path on the cross streets.

Having gone on 11th st a bunch of times during morning and evening rush hour since the build out and living near the alleged cut through streets, I am actually quite surprised at how well it is working and how little change in traffic there is (other than eliminating the Death Race 2000 that used to take place on 11th every day).  

That's been my experience as well, other than some delays where construction activities are taking place. Yesterday, I drove down Studewood from Cavalcade, then turned on 11th heading West., No issues, other than the parents picking up their kids at Field creating a backup there, but that's a Studewood issue.

[004n063]

Rode along 11th today. For the most part, it was nice. I like these full curbs a lot. And I love the modal filter on White Oak @ Michaux. The ones on Alabama and Elgin (@Hutchins) play a huge role in making Hutchins so bike-friendly.

That said, there were a lot of gaps in the protection. It reminded me a bit of Lawndale in that way. Except unlike Lawndale, 11th still has quite a bit of traffic on Sundays.

Also, as best I could tell, it ends at Shepherd. Once the Shepherd/Durham redesign is done, that won't be such an issue, but now it kind of is. I would really like to see this lane continue to the White Oak Bayou trail.

In general, I wish there were more east-west connections across Shepherd and Durham. The Heights really could be well on its way to being among the most bikeable urban places in the country if it didn't have such "hard" barriers.

 

11th looking west from Michaux:

 

Big gap in protection looking east from Studewood:

 

Modal filter (White Oak @ Michaux)

Edited January 15 by 004n063

[IWantTransit555]

Can anything be done about the gaps in protection?

[004n063]

4 hours ago, IWantTransit555 said:

Can anything be done about the gaps in protection?

A couple of layman's ideas:

1) Where the curbs would not be blocking driveways, just extend them.

2) Close redundant entrances to parking lots (this applies more to Lawndale than to 11th)

3) Disallow future construction of those "pull off the street and into a parking space" parking lots (example) along major streets. Or just in general. They dangerous.

4) Where those currently exist (they're most of the gaps), rebuild the sidewalk to be MUP-width, and merge the bike lane onto that short pathway. This would also help with safety, since cars would have to go up a major bump to enter the bike lane. Basically, take the Polk bus stops approach. 

5) Wherever fiscally possible (prioritizing major commercial arteries), follow the example of the Shepherd redesign and build a proper fietspad.

Edited January 16 by 004n063

[JJxvi]

I like how 11th street fronting properties now apparently have to block the new bike lanes with their trash cans on trash day because the trucks dont reach that far.

[004n063]

7 hours ago, JJxvi said:

I like how 11th street fronting properties now apparently have to block the new bike lanes with their trash cans on trash day because the trucks dont reach that far.

Same thing happened on Waugh/Commonwealth, and on Austin before that. There'll be an adjustment period, but the problem largely seems to go away in time.

 

Edit: but I am not entirely convinced that that isn't just @hindeskybiking around all morning on garbage day to keep all of the bike lanes clear.

Edited January 18 by 004n063

[chempku]

On 1/13/2023 at 12:56 PM, Ross said:

Some of those side streets have stop signs almost every block, which is a disincentive for cyclists. And, part of the RoW is consumed by drainage ditches, which the City has shown no interest in replacing.

How much does this 11th St road diet cost, do you have a rough idea? I tried to find some numbers but don't have any thing that seems reliable. Meanwhile for drainage and pavement projects, it costs roughly $8M per mile for a typical 50' ROW neighborhood street. I am curious about how they compare. The city does have a couple of drainage & pavement projects in the pipeline though. 

Edited January 18 by chempku

[steve1363]

The hike and bike trails along the bayou were loaded with people on Monday.  So great to see!  I still contend I never see cyclists on Heights Blvd. or now 11th Street.   Ill keep looking though… 🙃

[emmanume]

2 hours ago, steve1363 said:

The hike and bike trails along the bayou were loaded with people on Monday.  So great to see!  I still contend I never see cyclists on Heights Blvd. or now 11th Street.   Ill keep looking though… 🙃

Go sit at EQ Heights and tell me you see zero bikers

[j_cuevas713]

5 hours ago, steve1363 said:

The hike and bike trails along the bayou were loaded with people on Monday.  So great to see!  I still contend I never see cyclists on Heights Blvd. or now 11th Street.   Ill keep looking though… 🙃

So you're basing anecdotal evidence to "prove" nobody is using the bike lanes? Do you put that same energy in to making sure people use their car on the roads? You have to build a full network of bike lanes just as you would any road system. If you built a road that connected to very little or nothing at all, would you use it? Houston streets are well overbuilt for cars, safer streets are a much bigger issue. As the network grows people will use them, but that's not for you to decide. A lot of people can't afford a car or simply don't want one. That group is afforded the right to be able to move in more ways than one, especially in a MAJOR CITY. I'll contend that if you're not using the bike lanes, why do you care? I use the them daily.

Edited January 18 by j_cuevas713

[ladobey]

I see a good number of cyclists on Heights - mostly recreational rather than commuters. It's just too early to tell on 11th because it's still under construction. When I run early, there are substantial commuting cyclists on the MKT, so I bet we'll see them in 11th, too.

[004n063]

8 hours ago, steve1363 said:

The hike and bike trails along the bayou were loaded with people on Monday.  So great to see!  I still contend I never see cyclists on Heights Blvd. or now 11th Street.   Ill keep looking though… 🙃

You will. The MKT has gotten too crowded to be a great commuting or longer-distance option, but until now, the safety advantage made it the obvious choice. Now there is another, higher-speed east-west option.

Edited January 18 by 004n063

[steve1363]

10 hours ago, 004n063 said:

You will. The MKT has gotten too crowded to be a great commuting or longer-distance option, but until now, the safety advantage made it the obvious choice. Now there is another, higher-speed east-west option.

Ok I hope so for the sake of cyclists.  I drove down 11th street again today at 3:00 and ran into backed up traffic at the light on Shepherd.   I've lived in the Heights for over 25 years and the traffic has never been so backed up at Shepherd.  The road diet, however, is working because in the future I will avoid using 11th Street between Heights and Shepherd.  🙂  Problem solved.

[004n063]

12 minutes ago, steve1363 said:

Ok I hope so for the sake of cyclists.  I drove down 11th street again today at 3:00 and ran into backed up traffic at the light on Shepherd.   I've lived in the Heights for over 25 years and the traffic has never been so backed up at Shepherd.  The road diet, however, is working because in the future I will avoid using 11th Street between Heights and Shepherd.  🙂  Problem solved.

Excellent!

[Triton]

What an utter mess. They need to solve the left turn lane situation because now that all the traffic is stuck in one lane, the traffic backs up down the entire road waiting for people to turn. I saw heavy traffic from Shepherd all the way to Studewood because of it. 

It's so much quicker just taking the back roads now which is what I am having to do. 

[steve1363]

4 hours ago, Triton said:

What an utter mess. They need to solve the left turn lane situation because now that all the traffic is stuck in one lane, the traffic backs up down the entire road waiting for people to turn. I saw heavy traffic from Shepherd all the way to Studewood because of it. 

It's so much quicker just taking the back roads now which is what I am having to do. 

Seems like we have duplicate threads going…. In my experience the bottleneck is only at Shepherd.

[Triton]

On 1/21/2023 at 10:43 AM, steve1363 said:

Seems like we have duplicate threads going…. In my experience the bottleneck is only at Shepherd.

Looks like you are right. I found that other thread simply from Google. 

During rush hour, the road was back up going both ways. I'll take photos next time. 

[Texasota]

I haven't seen any issues with traffic over the last week, even with work still ongoing as you get closer to Shepherd. 

[TacoDog]

11th & Nicholson

 

 

Looks like they are placing these on the bike path curb.

[sayler]

Just a note to say: regardless of how useful it is as a bike lane—and I hope it is!—it's been great to be able to cross 11th on foot. I have only modest sympathy for most of the complainers I've heard since it went in. If people's expectation was for 4 lanes of 40mph traffic, then I think they're going to continue to be disappointed.

[004n063]

15 hours ago, sayler said:

Just a note to say: regardless of how useful it is as a bike lane—and I hope it is!—it's been great to be able to cross 11th on foot. I have only modest sympathy for most of the complainers I've heard since it went in. If people's expectation was for 4 lanes of 40mph traffic, then I think they're going to continue to be disappointed.

Anecdotal evidence time!

I rode around the Heights yesterday, including all along 11th, HHB/Nicholson, and the White Oak bayou trail, and a few things stood out to me:

1) The Nicholson/11th crossing is a gazillion times better than it used to be. It was easy to cross in two phases, and every car I saw slowed down to cross.

2) I have some issues with the design of the 11th St bike lane (having more to do with the adjacent pull-in parking lots than anything else), but it's clearly bringing people out. Every bike rack I saw was full, and lots of businesses without racks had a few bikes leaned up against the wall outside. Good problem to have, and hopefully more businesses will start installing (non-elementary-school-style) racks, but now's the time to put half a dozen staple or matchstick racks at every corner.

3) All around, I've never seen so many people on bikes in this city outside of a Critical Mass or major event or something. Easily in the thousands. Houston may not be a biking city, but the Heights - more or less a small city in its own right - certainly seems to be.

[samagon]

21 hours ago, 004n063 said:

Good problem to have, and hopefully more businesses will start installing (non-elementary-school-style) racks, but now's the time to put half a dozen staple or matchstick racks at every corner.

they are efficient, and relatively cheap to buy. I got a few for my coffee shop over 10 years ago now, they are still holding up great and they get a lot of use.

[Purdueenginerd]

Finally got a chance to ride the bike lanes on 11th on Sunday.

I liked it. had a mild complaint going westbound and trying to turn left on to the heights bike-trail. I ended up going to Yale and turning left there. Not a big deal since I was doing 16mph pace... but with a slower bike/ride ---I coudl find this annoying. 

 

Commenting on the traffic issue at shepherd. I drive from my house down 11th (west bound) every morning to drop my kid off at day care. at 730 in the morning, anecdotally, during construction traffic was backed up some... but now that its more or less complete - I've seen no appreciable increase my time to get him to daycare and get to the office. Going east bound on 11th over shepard, I feel like there needs to be better paint markings to partition the road from 2 lanes down to 1, but thats just an adjustment on my part. 

Edit:

Just want to add, I take my son to the heights library every 2-3 weeks and I generally walk there. Crossing 11th is drastically easier with a stroller than it was before. 

Edited February 21 by Purdueenginerd

[TacoDog]

11th St. westbound at Shepherd is an awkward mess right now, as there is enough space for two lanes, but it is unmarked. Could a right turn only lane be added here? Or will it have two lanes to help with traffic? 

 

Also, the lack of bike lanes here makes me believe they won't continue along 11th St. to Durham's bike lane, which is unfortunate. 

[Purdueenginerd]

1 minute ago, TacoDog said:

1

 

Also, the lack of bike lanes here makes me believe they won't continue along 11th St. to Durham's bike lane, which is unfortunate. 

 

For what its worth, there is a proposed extension to Ella. No idea on the funding or status of it. 

 

https://mycity.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=4b5467e117d0459b84e2f2e94ba4fdc2&extent=-10619481.073%2C3470289.6806%2C-10609291.0617%2C3475071.7722%2C102100

[s3mh]

I thought 11th and Heights would be a problem especially when the lanes were first changed and the signage was a bit improvised.  But now it actually flows better because right turn traffic on Heights NB and SB does not hold up traffic going straight when waiting for a pedestrian to cross.  And you can cross Heights on the trail on foot without having to worry about traffic on Heights turning left.  Most everyone is respecting the left turn restrictions.

Crossing 11th street is so much easier that it is not hyperbole to say that the changes will save lives.  My kids used to be afraid of crossing 11th street on bikes.  Now, I would not have any problem letting them cross on their own.  The only traffic snarl I have encountered is at 11th and Shep.  I had to wait out two cycles on the light at 11th WB to get through at around 6pm.  But a couple of days later, I went through at about the same time and there was no traffic.  

[TacoDog]

3 hours ago, Purdueenginerd said:

 

For what its worth, there is a proposed extension to Ella. No idea on the funding or status of it. 

 

https://mycity.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=4b5467e117d0459b84e2f2e94ba4fdc2&extent=-10619481.073%2C3470289.6806%2C-10609291.0617%2C3475071.7722%2C102100

I don't see anything on the map... 

[Justin Welling]

6 minutes ago, TacoDog said:

I don't see anything on the map... 

Click "Proposed HC" in the layers, then it shows up

[Triton]

8 hours ago, s3mh said:

I thought 11th and Heights would be a problem especially when the lanes were first changed and the signage was a bit improvised.  But now it actually flows better because right turn traffic on Heights NB and SB does not hold up traffic going straight when waiting for a pedestrian to cross.  And you can cross Heights on the trail on foot without having to worry about traffic on Heights turning left.  Most everyone is respecting the left turn restrictions.

Crossing 11th street is so much easier that it is not hyperbole to say that the changes will save lives.  My kids used to be afraid of crossing 11th street on bikes.  Now, I would not have any problem letting them cross on their own.  The only traffic snarl I have encountered is at 11th and Shep.  I had to wait out two cycles on the light at 11th WB to get through at around 6pm.  But a couple of days later, I went through at about the same time and there was no traffic.  

I will actually agree on this point and the left turn lanes needed to be removed at Heights Blvd since forever. That always led to back ups because it was nearly impossible for anyone to turn left during rush hour. Now that left turns are gone, the traffic does flow a lot smoother through there. 

Perhaps it was the first few days when these lanes opened that traffic was horrid (People didn't know what to do?). I will say, traffic times have been better since the bike lanes first went in. It doesn't take that long for me to drive from N Main to Shepherd anymore. 

That being said, I have family that lives on W 8th St. and they have told me traffic has increased dramatically. They walk their dogs on that road and loop back around on the MTK trail.... they said the traffic volume is quite noticeable, especially around rush hour. I myself have noticed a traffic increase on 14th as well and now there's a bit of a line that forms going eastbound near Studewood St. You may have to wait through several lights just to cross through there now.

So now I wonder, have traffic times improved on 11th because people are now getting used to these bike lanes and the left turn removals... and/or.... is the traffic finding other back roads to take to avoid 11th St.

 

Whatever the case, I seriously hope someone does a study on it. 

[sayler]

8 hours ago, Triton said:

That being said, I have family that lives on W 8th St. and they have told me traffic has increased dramatically. They walk their dogs on that road and loop back around on the MTK trail.... they said the traffic volume is quite noticeable, especially around rush hour. I myself have noticed a traffic increase on 14th as well and now there's a bit of a line that forms going eastbound near Studewood St. You may have to wait through several lights just to cross through there now.

Again, anecdotally, but traffic on 10th is also increased, but not in a way that feels especially dangerous. I mostly see sub-20 mph cars and trucks, because the road just isn't wide enough to support fast traffic, and there are speed bumps and a stop sign between Shepherd and Yale.

The only exception are the folks who insist on crossing Yale at 10th or making lefts from 10th at that intersection. I try not to use the term "crazy," but I wonder what would possess someone to do that when there's any traffic on Yale? Granted, that corner has regularly been the site of accidents from people doing those maneuvers [edit: for years]. However, I now see 5-6 cars backed up, traveling EB on 10th at Yale at rush hour.

I will say that traffic "inside the neighborhood" would be less of an issue if there were continuous sidewalks on those streets. We can all dream, right?

Edited February 22 by sayler

[samagon]

1 hour ago, sayler said:

Again, anecdotally, but traffic on 10th is also increased, but not in a way that feels especially dangerous. I mostly see sub-20 mph cars and trucks, because the road just isn't wide enough to support fast traffic, and there are speed bumps and a stop sign between Shepherd and Yale.

The only exception are the folks who insist on crossing Yale at 10th or making lefts from 10th at that intersection. I try not to use the term "crazy," but I wonder what would possess someone to do that when there's any traffic on Yale? Granted, that corner has regularly been the site of accidents from people doing those maneuvers [edit: for years]. However, I now see 5-6 cars backed up, traveling EB on 10th at Yale at rush hour.

I will say that traffic "inside the neighborhood" would be less of an issue if there were continuous sidewalks on those streets. We can all dream, right?

that's the thing though. aren't people going to explore to try and find something that feels more like what used to be, aka going 40+ down 11th?

as they use those side streets and see that they don't feel safe going faster than 20, or there's road humps, or stop signs, or other things that make it inconvenient (or unsafe), they'll move on and explore for something better, maybe they eventually end up back on 11th, or 20th, or White Oak.

one thing I would suggest, if you live on one of these side streets, go out and get the cheapest beater car you can, park it as inconveniently for traffic in the street in front of your house as you can, and drive it as infrequently and for as short of a distance as you can so you satisfy the cities requirement for long term parking. keep it until you see less through traffic in your neighborhood, then sell it for the same you bought it for.

Edited February 22 by samagon

[sayler]

10 hours ago, samagon said:

that's the thing though. aren't people going to explore to try and find something that feels more like what used to be, aka going 40+ down 11th?

 I am NOT an urban/traffic planner, but my understanding is that narrow lanes and the normal obstacles of residential traffic exert a pretty strong pull on drivers to slow down—or written the other way, it's unsurprising when people treat 4 lanes of traffic as a highway.

Quote

one thing I would suggest, if you live on one of these side streets, go out and get the cheapest beater car you can, park it as inconveniently for traffic in the street in front of your house as you can, and drive it as infrequently and for as short of a distance as you can so you satisfy the cities requirement for long term parking. keep it until you see less through traffic in your neighborhood, then sell it for the same you bought it for.

I'm going to go with "no."

[004n063]

11 hours ago, samagon said:

one thing I would suggest, if you live on one of these side streets, go out and get the cheapest beater car you can, park it as inconveniently for traffic in the street in front of your house as you can, and drive it as infrequently and for as short of a distance as you can so you satisfy the cities requirement for long term parking. keep it until you see less through traffic in your neighborhood, then sell it for the same you bought it for.

Just put some sticks in the street

[august948]

18 hours ago, 004n063 said:

Just put some sticks in the street

I've seen people use cones and their garbage cans for this.  Easier than keeping a car for just that purpose.

[cspwal]

In east downtown we just have old railroad crossings that were never properly paved over to slow traffic down - there's at least 3 on Delano, otherwise it would be a drag strip at night

[emmanume]

On 2/21/2023 at 11:03 AM, TacoDog said:

11th St. westbound at Shepherd is an awkward mess right now, as there is enough space for two lanes, but it is unmarked. Could a right turn only lane be added here? Or will it have two lanes to help with traffic? 

 

Also, the lack of bike lanes here makes me believe they won't continue along 11th St. to Durham's bike lane, which is unfortunate. 

They didn’t finish the bike lanes to shepherd and Durham because the big Shepherd/Durham project will tie it together. A separate project will add wide shared use path to the north end of 11th all the way to TC jester 

[samagon]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:38 PM, cspwal said:

In east downtown we just have old railroad crossings that were never properly paved over to slow traffic down - there's at least 3 on Delano, otherwise it would be a drag strip at night

my favorite is Dumble just south of Harrisburg. 

if you maintain enough speed, you can dukes of hazzard the heck out of it.

Edited February 27 by samagon