11th Street Bike Lanes

[editor]

10 hours ago, TacoDog said:

Limiting left turns to a few streets doesn't make sense to me. The blocks are very short along the street and a lot of people live between 11th and 10th or 12th streets who wouldn't be able to turn left to go home from a certain direction. 

Are they not able to go home from another direction?  How is this different than living on a one-way street, or on a cul-de-sac?  You just get used to driving a different way.

[JJxvi]

It would cause some minor issues, primarily on Yale, as more cars need to stop and yield to turn left at intersections where unlike 11th there is no signal, but I agree, there are ways to get home and avoid 11th unless you live right on 11th it mostly just spreads 11th streets traffic to what are quieter residential streets now. It also leads to more people from Durham having to make the jaunt across four lanes of Shepherd highway traffic when coming back to the hood from the north (and honestly I think many people already do this, or use 14th where there is a light, because the grocery traffic on 11th is already a pain). In the long run, I think Shepherd and Durham are also planned for road diets as well, so who knows what that looks like in the future though.

The problem with no turns, is that there will still be a significant number of people trying to turn (whether outside traffic or through unfamiliarity or traffic trying to reach a restaurant on this section, etc), so it definitely would create weird new thru traffic of people who now have to turn or  try to make U-turns on Rutland and Lawrence. In addition only two turns increases the chances of lines forming because multiple people are yielding to oncoming and making the turn (whereas if you can turn left at every intersection, its unlikely to be more than one car at any particular turn) and since there is only one through traffic lane each way, traffic will be at a standstill in heavy traffic periods IMO waiting for people in front of them to turn when the left turn lanes back up. That's basically what it was like when 11th was under construction when I lived in the area.

Edited June 15, 2022 by JJxvi

[s3mh]

18 hours ago, JJxvi said:

Yeah, worrying about how you’ll be able to turn into the neighborhood or whether more cars will be forced down your side streets, critical planks in the right wing political identity.

Build your strawmen at someone else’s expense.  These arent political operatives trying to keep the cyclists down, they are nimby’s that drive cars.  They dont want bike lanes because they dont use them and they think building them might be a disruption to them… kinda like how people who dont go to WalMart’s dont want Walmart’s built near them.

If you didn't live under a rock, you would know that opposing road diets and bike lanes has been a favorite cause for conservatives.  Talk radio hosts in LA went nuts over its "Vision Zero" plans for bike lanes and road diets and lead an opposition "movement" (the opposition to these things is usually very astroturfed with mostly businesses leading the way over lost parking spaces).  Conservative think tanks went nuts over Federal proposals to use highway funds for local road diet and bike lane projects.  

And your own biases are pretty clear as you give these people a free pass for throwing up what are clearly pretextual arguments about traffic while throwing a fit over any argument that WalMart and other crappy development might have negative impacts.  

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vision-zero-a-road-diet-fad-is-proving-to-be-deadly-11547853472

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-08/when-a-bike-lane-battle-goes-nuclear

 

https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2021-03/PA-913.pdf

 

 

[JJxvi]

I'm sure I have biases like anyone does. I doubt that they are what you see through your own cloud of them.

[j_cuevas713]

This has been fully approved to move forward with construction! 😀

[Heights88]

s3 - it is true many 'Conservatives' oppose such efforts to intentionally limit roadways to car traffic, as you highlighted above. That WSJ oped you cited casts an opinion that road diets are ill-conceived, counter-productive projects that make ordinary peoples' lives worse...that may be a 'Conservative' view point, but it's also defensible, rational, and supported by at least some facts. Bike lanes aren't inherently bad, but there are trade-offs to removing miles and miles of roadway that are used by the vast majority of people for car traffic. Acknowledging and weighing the trade-offs...sounds like a good place to start. 

[s3mh]

3 hours ago, Heights88 said:

s3 - it is true many 'Conservatives' oppose such efforts to intentionally limit roadways to car traffic, as you highlighted above. That WSJ oped you cited casts an opinion that road diets are ill-conceived, counter-productive projects that make ordinary peoples' lives worse...that may be a 'Conservative' view point, but it's also defensible, rational, and supported by at least some facts. Bike lanes aren't inherently bad, but there are trade-offs to removing miles and miles of roadway that are used by the vast majority of people for car traffic. Acknowledging and weighing the trade-offs...sounds like a good place to start. 

That is not what was happening with this project.  This project had been in the planning stages for a few years with multiple community meetings where planners heard community concerns and made changes to the project in response.  Then, at the eleventh hour (pun intended), a very astroturf looking group popped up and started throwing everything at the wall to see if anything stuck.  This group was looking to burn it down, not discuss balancing trade offs.  People who stood by while the dry area was lost and all sorts of development went in suddenly were rocked to their core at the idea of a few extra cars going up their street.  I know a right wing freak out when I see one.  This was definitely one.  

[JJxvi]

I dunno who all went and showed up to the meetings in the past 7 or 8 months or all of the meetings before that or whatever, I'm not really invested in the thing. I just used to live on Nicholson, and know many people who live just off of 11th and go to some of the businesses there.  The people I know who mentioned this to me were just people talking about it in conversation, I know a couple people who said they went to like a meeting at Berryhill in February because they felt blindsided about what the city was actually doing, I got the impression mostly that people (the ones who I've had conversations about this with) were fine about the idea of striping some bike lanes and especially in doing something about the Nicholson crossing, but couldn't believe it when they found out the extent of the changes would be made to the traffic pattern.

I get the impression that the people invested in this and the city pretty much spent 5 years talking with only the neighborhood associations and so they feel like they did everything they needed to get input from residents, but the reality is that talking to the Greater Heights Association is not the same as being transparent with all of the people who live there.  Its more akin to the "but the plans were on display, why didn't you speak up!" conversation from the beginning of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.  Maybe that's an indictment more on the neighborhood groups and how they operate than it is of the City of Houston. I don't know

Edited June 15, 2022 by JJxvi

[steve1363]

7 minutes ago, JJxvi said:

I dunno who all went and showed up to the meetings in the past 7 or 8 months or all of the meetings before that or whatever, I'm not really invested in the thing. I just used to live on Nicholson, and know many people who live just off of 11th and go to some of the businesses there.  The people I know who mentioned this to me were just people talking about it in conversation, I know a couple people who said they went to like a meeting at Berryhill in February because they felt blindsided about what the city was actually doing, I got the impression mostly that people (the ones who I've had conversations about this with) were fine about the idea of striping some bike lanes and especially in doing something about the Nicholson crossing, but couldn't believe it when they found out the extent of the changes would be made to the traffic pattern.

I get the impression that the people invested in this and the city pretty much spent 5 years talking with only the neighborhood associations and so they feel like they did everything they needed to get input from residents, but the reality is that talking to the Greater Heights Association is not the same as being transparent with all of the people who live there.  Its more akin to the "but the plans were on display, why didn't you speak up!" conversation from the beginning of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.  Maybe that's an indictment more on the neighborhood groups and how they operate than it is of the City of Houston. I don't know

I’ve lived in Woodland Heights for over 25 years.  I’ve seen a lot of changes.  I only found out about this specific project because someone put a Flyer on my gate advising about the changes to White Oak (installing a bike “island” and eliminating left turns on Michaux.). If drivers can’t turn left off White Oak where do you think they will go?  Probably 6 1/2 street.  The stupidity of the city infuriates me.  

[Cottagegrove13]

This will obviously push traffic into neighborhood streets which is where the real danger lies. A man was just killed by a car on a neighborhood street because non existent sidewalks pushed him onto the street. The city should focus on widening neighborhood streets (so they are in compliance with their own fire code) and adding sidewalks if they were really concerned about improving safety. 

[editor]

23 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I only found out about this specific project because someone put a Flyer on my gate advising about the changes to White Oak

You may want to choose new places to get your news.  This has been all over the newspaper forever.

[TacoDog]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:22 AM, editor said:

Are they not able to go home from another direction?  How is this different than living on a one-way street, or on a cul-de-sac?  You just get used to driving a different way.

I would have to go 2 more exits on 610 to go back around just to turn right instead of left. I could also take 610 in the other direction and loop all the way around Houston, going farther doesn't make sense. The difference between one way streets and this set up is you can go one block over to make a left turn, whereas here you would have to go several blocks to the one intersection its allowed. Then you will have everyone else doing the same, creating traffic that doesn't exist now.

[emmanume]

I agree with the opposition in that some of these designs going forward that reduce the number of lanes are not ideal. However, in the massively car centric culture we have in this city, we can afford to make decisions that make environments more inviting for pedestrians and bicyclists at the expense of drivers.

We have many many years to undo the damage that our city has endured from a car centric culture. People will get used to the 11th street turns. I’m very sure everyone will find a way to get home. And once they do, they'll go on a walk and they’ll enjoy the calmer streetscape on 11th street 

[steve1363]

On 6/16/2022 at 5:57 PM, editor said:

You may want to choose new places to get your news.  This has been all over the newspaper forever.

If by the newspaper you mean “The Leader” then I guess you may be right.  Admittedly I usually chuck The Leader into the recycle bin.  A topic on HAIF was begun in November 2021 entitled “11th St. Bikeway.”  That topic was then superseded by the current one on 5/6/22.  Nevertheless this is water under the bridge.  It’s obvious this action caught many residents by surprise.

The opposition has 1,683 signatures and the proponents have 898 currently

“We do feel that the mayor is being very fair. He’s looking into this,” said Heights resident Sylvia Blair, who spoke at Tuesday’s city council meeting and opposes the bikeway plan. “He said, ‘I had no idea that people were against this.’”

Yes, mayor, many people were against it.  Just as Big Tex Storage was not the end of the world we will survive this too.  Let’s hope the proponents of this “road diet” avail themselves of their new bike lanes and interior neighborhood vehicular traffic is not greatly altered.  That would be a true win-win for people who live in the neighborhood.

[Texasota]

No, one life saved because of this road diet would make it worth it. We need to stop behaving as though car throughput is more important than human safety.

[wilcal]

On 6/16/2022 at 1:53 PM, Cottagegrove13 said:

This will obviously push traffic into neighborhood streets which is where the real danger lies. A man was just killed by a car on a neighborhood street because non existent sidewalks pushed him onto the street. The city should focus on widening neighborhood streets (so they are in compliance with their own fire code) and adding sidewalks if they were really concerned about improving safety. 

Are you referencing Ryan Lutz who was killed on West 25th St? There were sidewalks there, but they are frequently blocked by cars in driveways. There are a few gaps because property owners are only required to put them in during a subdivision or major renovation (I do agree that this is a crap system)

4 hours ago, steve1363 said:

It’s obvious this action caught many residents by surprise.

Funny how the car driver average speeds on 11th being 50% higher than the current speed limit doesn't seem to catch residents by surprise 🤔 and there hasn't been a concerted effort to improve safety along this strip. hrmmmm

[skooljunkie]

On 6/14/2022 at 1:41 PM, iah77 said:

Does anyone else have a problem with how crappy some of the city's "safety" interventions look? The way they just build curbs looks horrible and I think people would be more receptive if it did not look so bad. The one they did by Rice drives me crazy and the space has accumulated a lot of tree waste since now it cannot be cleaned easily. In other cities they tend to raise the area and landscape it so it actually looks better than before. 

Absolutely agree. 100%. It’s always good ‘nuf. 

[Cottagegrove13]

On 6/18/2022 at 8:39 AM, wilcal said:

Are you referencing Ryan Lutz who was killed on West 25th St? There were sidewalks there, but they are frequently blocked by cars in driveways. There are a few gaps because property owners are only required to put them in during a subdivision or major renovation (I do agree that this is a crap system)

Funny how the car driver average speeds on 11th being 50% higher than the current speed limit doesn't seem to catch residents by surprise 🤔 and there hasn't been a concerted effort to improve safety along this strip. hrmmmm

You are grossly embellishing "there were sidewalks there". The sidewalks there are not continuous and frequently end in a ditch or someone's yard. Sometimes they are blocked by cars in a driveway but the bigger problem is that the sidewalk is not complete or continuous and this is the case with many streets in the heights. 

[TacoDog]

1 hour ago, Cottagegrove13 said:

You are grossly embellishing "there were sidewalks there". The sidewalks there are not continuous and frequently end in a ditch or someone's yard. Sometimes they are blocked by cars in a driveway but the bigger problem is that the sidewalk is not complete or continuous and this is the case with many streets in the heights. 

I think y'all are saying the same thing. 

[wilcal]

Yup. My point is that in many places the only effective choice is to walk in the street.

[emmanume]

During a public meeting today, the city announced 11th St has been reprioritized on the list of the Mayor’s Street Rehabilitation Program. This means that in addition to the proposed safety improvements, 11th St. will be repaved along two eligible sections:

1) Shepherd to Yale

2) Studewood to Michaux

3) Yale to Michaux will not be repaved but will still be part of the safety improvements.

when possible and within reason the city will also rebuild sidewalks and build out ADA infrastructure (!!) as cherry on the top, if the city damages any curbside blue tiles they will also replace them 

this is huge news 📰 but I know they had to work hard to reprioritize in order to be able to do both projects at once

it’s great that they’ll rehabilitate the street now. Otherwise the safety improvements going in now would have had to be torn apart later on when the city were ready to rehabilitate

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by emmanume
Grammar

[Ross]

11 minutes ago, emmanume said:

During a public meeting today, the city announced 11th St has been reprioritized on the list of the Mayor’s Street Rehabilitation Program. This means that in addition to the proposed safety improvements, 11th St. will be repaved along two eligible sections:

1) Shepherd to Yale

2) Studewood to Michaux

3) Yale to Michaux will not be repaved but will still be part of the safety improvements.

when possible and within reason the city will also rebuil sidewalks and build out ADA infrastructure (!!) as cherry on the top, if the city damages any curbside blue tiles they will also replace them 

this is huge news 📰 but I know they had to work hard to reprioritize in order to be able to do both projects at once

it’s great that they’ll rehabilitate the street now. Otherwise the safety improvements going in now would have had to be torn apart later on when the city were ready to rehabilitate

 

That's great news. The Yale(or Heights) to Michaux repave was done a while back, and has contributed greatly to speeding since it's wide and smooth. I drive the speed limit on that stretch and frequently have other cars blow by me at 45 or 50.  I also get honked at sometimes for stopping at Nicholson to let cyclists and pedestrians cross.

I am still amused at the number of people who think the world will end if the road diet proceeds.

[hindesky]

Despite raising concerns among some residents , the design work for the 11th St Bikeway in the Heights is nearing completion.. Although there is still room for minor tweaks, it is now up to the city to sign and seal the deal.

https://communityimpact.com/houston/heights-river-oaks-montrose/transportation/2022/08/18/design-work-wraps-up-on-11th-street-bikeway-project-in-the-heights/

[TacoDog]

"Around the same time, the final design for 11th Street will be released. Construction for the 11th Street project will begin in October with completion in February 2023."

[pokemonizepic]

drove past today, city of Houston construction sign is up and there were some construction workers talking on the empty lot by Nicholson 

[hindesky]

Are there any plans to install a traffic light at 11th St. and Nicholson St.? I was headed southbound on Nicholson trying to cross 11th, it took me about 10 minutes to be able to cross with all the non stop traffic.

[pokemonizepic]

1 hour ago, hindesky said:

Are there any plans to install a traffic light at 11th St. and Nicholson St.? I was headed southbound on Nicholson trying to cross 11th, it took me about 10 minutes to be able to cross with all the non stop traffic.

no, from my understanding there will be no additional traffic lights, only pedestrian islands (I imagine similar to what they have on Studewood)

[hindesky]

It needs a light that riders, walkers and joggers can tap like the one at Yale St. at 7th St.

[Ross]

4 minutes ago, hindesky said:

It needs a light that riders, walkers and joggers can tap like the one at Yale St. at 7th St.

Theoretically, drivers on 11th are supposed to stop to let cyclists and pedestrians cross. I always do that, although it has gotten me honked at a few times. The honkers can go f them selves. Here's a street view with the yield to bikes and pedestrians sign. https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7905571,-95.4053615,3a,37.5y,289.77h,79.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGdG3vxsY48PI6rfrxE_fQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[hindesky]

31 minutes ago, Ross said:

Theoretically, drivers on 11th are supposed to stop to let cyclists and pedestrians cross. I always do that, although it has gotten me honked at a few times. The honkers can go f them selves. Here's a street view with the yield to bikes and pedestrians sign. https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7905571,-95.4053615,3a,37.5y,289.77h,79.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGdG3vxsY48PI6rfrxE_fQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

On weekends I've had drivers stop to let us go thru but today was at lunch time and the cars just never seemed to end.

[pokemonizepic]

[editor]

On 10/15/2022 at 7:20 PM, pokemonizepic said:

 

Yep.  That's what we used for ramps back in Big Wheel days!

[steve1363]

Drove down 11th Street today.  It is torn up from Michaux to Shepherd so I assume the bike lanes will be in place soon.

[ladobey]

Well it's certainly a mess. I hope they do the work quickly!

[pokemonizepic]

New pavement has been laid down for a couple days now, but there are still a decent amount of ADA ramps to install for the sidewalks and none of the safety features (pedestrian islands or bike lanes) have been added yet 

[steve1363]

The bike island and White Oak road changes have begun.  No more left turns from Michaux to White Oak.

 

[pokemonizepic]

street sweeping / cleaning going on today on the Shepherd-Yale segment

[bookey23]

Does anyone know what exactly is being implemented on White Oak? I thought this project was only going to affect 11th and Michaux, but I was thrilled to see these traffic barrels when driving down White Oak today!

[pokemonizepic]

21 hours ago, bookey23 said:

Does anyone know what exactly is being implemented on White Oak? I thought this project was only going to affect 11th and Michaux, but I was thrilled to see these traffic barrels when driving down White Oak today!

I dont think White oak is being changed but Michaux is being converted to a "high comfort shared on-street" facility, So I think they are building a modal filter to only allow bikes / pedestrians thru like they have on cavalcade. 

[steve1363]

1 hour ago, pokemonizepic said:

I dont think White oak is being changed but Michaux is being converted to a "high comfort shared on-street" facility, So I think they are building a modal filter to only allow bikes / pedestrians thru like they have on cavalcade. 

That bike island will exist on White Oak.  Drivers will no longer be able to turn left onto Michaux from White Oak, nor will they be able to turn left from Michaux onto White Oak.

Michaux will be largely unchanged.

From the website Q&A:  

Thanks for your question. Michaux will remain the same configuration as it is today. The designation will be a shared street (see below) for people biking and driving. Because it is a narrow street with speed humps, there are fewer cars at slower speeds, which makes it a safe street for all ages and abilities. We will add pavement markings ("sharrows") and bikeway signage so that people biking can be guided to other bikeways and destinations, like the future 11th Street bikeway at the north end of Michaux and Stude Park at the south end.

[pokemonizepic]

modal filter at white oak / michaux

Michaux approaching 11th st

new crosswalks at 11th & Michaux

Bike Lanes on 11th near Hogg Middle School

Pedestrian island in front of Hogg middle school

[Ross]

The work at Michaux and White Oak already has Nextdoor up in arms. "What do you mean I can't turn left on White Oak from Michaux! Don't you know that is going to destroy all life on Earth, realign the planets, and send the four horsemen of the apocalypse into action? If I can't turn left there, my life is over."

[IWantTransit555]

16 hours ago, Ross said:

What do you mean I can't turn left on White Oak from Michaux

Oh No! Their commute will take 30 more seconds!

[steve1363]

3 hours ago, IWantTransit555 said:

Oh No! Their commute will take 30 more seconds!

I would be more sympathetic towards cyclists if I actually saw them using the dedicated road lanes.  It is rare that I see a cyclist on Heights Boulevard.  I do see a lot of cyclists on the Bayou Bikeways.  I hope all of you snarky commenters put your money where your mouth is and bike to work every day and use mass transit.

[Texasota]

*rolls eyes*. If you don't see cyclists on Heights Boulevard (which has mediocre at best bike lanes anyway), then you're not paying attention.

[TacoDog]

20 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I would be more sympathetic towards cyclists if I actually saw them using the dedicated road lanes.  It is rare that I see a cyclist on Heights Boulevard.  I do see a lot of cyclists on the Bayou Bikeways.  I hope all of you snarky commenters put your money where your mouth is and bike to work every day and use mass transit.

Cyclists are on Heights Boulevard more often that you are, that's for certain. It's pretty pathetic to not have sympathy for someone literally risking their life to ride a bicycle in a dedicated bike lane. 

[chempku]

On 12/6/2022 at 2:28 PM, steve1363 said:

I would be more sympathetic towards cyclists if I actually saw them using the dedicated road lanes.  It is rare that I see a cyclist on Heights Boulevard.  I do see a lot of cyclists on the Bayou Bikeways.  I hope all of you snarky commenters put your money where your mouth is and bike to work every day and use mass transit.

The bike lanes on Heights Blvd have no protection, poorly designed, not safe. That's the reason. 

Come to MKT or WOB trails to have a look. 

[editor]

On 12/6/2022 at 2:28 PM, steve1363 said:

I hope all of you snarky commenters put your money where your mouth is and bike to work every day and use mass transit.

Sure do!  I put half a tank of gas in my car over the weekend just to top it up.  The last time I filled up was in July.

[Triton]

On 12/5/2022 at 5:48 PM, Ross said:

The work at Michaux and White Oak already has Nextdoor up in arms. "What do you mean I can't turn left on White Oak from Michaux! Don't you know that is going to destroy all life on Earth, realign the planets, and send the four horsemen of the apocalypse into action? If I can't turn left there, my life is over."

Man the fiery is all over the place about that barrier... It's a little nutty. Lol

It's not that difficult to turn left on Norhill Blvd instead and in fact it's probably even safer because of that blind spot turn on White Oak when driving west. 

[pokemonizepic]