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Dominax

City Of Detroit

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Detroit

Population

885,198 in city and 5,425,588 in metro

Area

359 km

Edited by Dominax

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Guest danax

I've never been there, and I'm sure there are charming spots, but what comes to my mind is Black and poor, not a good combination, crime wise. So it's no surprise that the city has lost population over the years.

It's the #1 most dangerous metro area in the 2005 Morgan/Quitno City Crime Rankings. Here's an excerpt;

CITIES OF 500,000 OR MORE POPULATION: (32 cities)

Safest 10: Most Dangerous 10:

1 San Jose, CA 1 Detroit, MI

2 El Paso, TX 2 Baltimore, MD

3 Honolulu, HI 3 Washington, DC

4 New York, NY 4 Memphis, TN

5 Austin, TX 5 Dallas, TX

6 San Diego, CA 6 Philadelphia, PA

7 Louisville, KY 7 Columbus, OH

8 San Antonio, TX 8 Nashville, TN

9 Fort Worth, TX 9 Houston, TX

10 Jacksonville, FL 10 Charlotte, NC

The winter climate is harsh and I hear gentrification is very slow there so it will likely continue its drop in population rankings. The city has risen and fallen with the auto industry. A lot of production has shifted elsewhere and lots of market share has been lost over the past 30 years to the Japanese.

In the 20s it was one of the most modern US cities. Last I heard, a lot of the downtown area is abandoned.

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First off, the last link you gave to pics of how bad Detroit is, looks like the photos are hosted on a white supremacists site. Im white, and even I feel a little uncomfortable reading all of the pro-white text.

Detroit is an absolutely amazing.

It has stunning examples of late 1800's and early 1900's architecture, but sadly 85% of it all is in decline, empty, and falling apart.

I went to Detroit this year on business, but had time to take some photos, ill post some of the more interesting examples here:

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

These pictures are the most incredible to me.

Detroit train station

Detroit Train Station 2

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

Some of these examples posted above, are just amazing. Its just amazing to think that just 50 years ago, families were living in these houses, kids playing outside in the yard, beautiful lawns, etc.

Just amazing, simply, amazing. In Houston these houses and buildings would have been demolished decades ago.

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First off, the last link you gave to pics of how bad Detroit is, looks like the photos are hosted on a white supremacists site. Im white, and even I feel a little uncomfortable reading all of the pro-white text.

Detroit is an absolutely amazing.

It has stunning examples of late 1800's and early 1900's architecture, but sadly 85% of it all is in decline, empty, and falling apart.

Modern,

I agree-I had a problem with all that negative commentary and photography from just another lame, racist website.

But isn't that architecture just beautiful?

B)

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What I wouldn't give....[sigh]...

Edited by editor

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Modern,

I agree-I had a problem with all that negative commentary and photography from just another lame, racist website.

But isn't that architecture just beautiful? What I wouldn't give....[sigh]...

B)

Yeah, it was a little too much. Even though there seems to be some good collections of facts on that site, its a little too biased for me to really read further.

Yeahp, the architecture is just amazing, and what makes it even more amazing is that so much of it is still intact. It may be one of the few cities in the USA with SO much period architecture still left standing.

Fyi, is your avatar picture FLW inspired ?

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What would make that house crumble so literally like that? The bricks are just falling off and it looks like someone's tried to hold it together with cables.

Yeah, the website looked like a white supremacist one. From that you'd believe that the building started falling down because it saw black people.

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What would make that house crumble so literally like that?

Abandonment and neglect. Nothing lasts forever without some attention and care.

:(

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What would make that house crumble so literally like that? The bricks are just falling off and it looks like someone's tried to hold it together with cables.

My guess would be some serious foundation issues.

Over 100-150 years, the ground can shift a good amount.

The cables are apparently holding all of the bricks together so that the building can be restored/rebuilt. The cables are keeping the building from completely collapsing, and making it so that it can be accurately rebuilt later.

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Fyi, if youd like to see more pictures of Detroit and its incredible buildings, check out this website :

Detroit

You beat me to it!

"Fabulous Ruins of Detroit" has been a favorite website for a long time (the original one - not the neonazi one :angry2: ).

I did read somewhere recently (wish I could remember the source) that there's an effort to restore one of the most prominant (and hopeless looking) Victorians - perhaps the one in nmainguy's photo?

Another city which has a huge stock of unrestored, but beautiful 19th century buildings is St. Louis, MO.

Check out a similar website: Built St. Louis

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This made me wonder about something. Do you think it is possible to see a city like Detroit to fall to a point where people no longer live in the city itself? Looking at these pictures was actually painful to a certain degree. Seeing the beautiful train station crumbling back to earth was moving. You would think that the people of Detroit would relish in their history and work together to bring the city back to life. I guess with a decreasing population and citizens that really don't care about their city, this should not be a suprise.

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This made me wonder about something. Do you think it is possible to see a city like Detroit to fall to a point where people no longer live in the city itself? Looking at these pictures was actually painful to a certain degree. Seeing the beautiful train station crumbling back to earth was moving. You would think that the people of Detroit would relish in their history and work together to bring the city back to life. I guess with a decreasing population and citizens that really don't care about their city, this should not be a suprise.

They ARE working to bring their city back. It is a slow and painful process, especially when much of the population does not have enough income to pay for needed improvements. I'm sure, during the Super Bowl week, you will see many of the areas where Detroit is clawing it's way back. However, when over half of the population leaves, half of the infrastructure is no longer needed. It is natural that much of the housing stock and buildings would fall into disrepair from disuse.

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the detroit ruins site is awesome! i wish i had more time to take picures during demolitions :(

"Detroit developer Jim Wickenheiser has purchased the vacant Hotel Eddystone on Park, near Interstate 75. The 14-story building will be renovated into 60 condominiums and ground-floor retail space, Wickenheiser said."

this was from 2003

and this was taken in 2005, correct? if so, i wonder how many redevelopments there are, and how many are successful

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That website that ModernCeo left has to be THE most depressing site ever. I cannot believe the amount of neglect and abandonment that has gone on in that town. This website has truly ruined my day. Thanks Modern. :(

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the detroit ruins site is awesome! i wish i had more time to take picures during demolitions :(

"Detroit developer Jim Wickenheiser has purchased the vacant Hotel Eddystone on Park, near Interstate 75. The 14-story building will be renovated into 60 condominiums and ground-floor retail space, Wickenheiser said."

this was from 2003

and this was taken in 2005, correct? if so, i wonder how many redevelopments there are, and how many are successful

Yup yup, that photo was taken around July of 2005.

That website that ModernCeo left has to be THE most depressing site ever. I cannot believe the amount of neglect and abandonment that has gone on in that town. This website has truly ruined my day. Thanks Modern. :(

Sorry, didnt mean to ruin your day.

Thats the way that Detroit is, a beautiful city thats not too far from a wasteland.

Ill be in Detroit Thursday/Friday of this week, Ill try to take some more photos to share when im there.

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As now looking at the city becoming the 11th largest

as the population decreases :(

Will Detroit gonna continue to drop to the 800,000's

what would be the population in 2020 :(

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Thought these color photograps from the 1930s and '40s would make a nice contrast. The city actually looks new and clean in the pictures of that era.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/f?fsaa...mp/~ammem_FOUF:

Very sad. Makes one wonder about Houston's own future...

Update: I can't seem to get the old link to work anymore, so go here instead if you are having problems:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?amme...D(COLLID+fsac))

Edited by mike1

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There are still quite a few areas in Detroit that have remarkable urban neighborhoods.

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Thought these color photograps from the 1930s and '40s would make a nice contrast. The city actually looks new and clean in the pictures of that era.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/f?fsaa...mp/~ammem_FOUF:

Very sad. Makes one wonder about Houston's own future...

As long as we keep using Fossil Fuels, Houston will be just fine .

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I'm sure they'll clean it up so that it looks pretty for the Super Bowl, but that entire region's problems go much deeper than the aesthetic. I grew up in the Great Lakes and it's sad to see the decline of great industrial cities such as Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo.

Houston kind of reminds me of some of those places in its dependence on a single industry. Just like Detroit once depended on autos, we depend on petroleum. I hope we can avoid their fate.

I also really love the historic architecture of those areas and I hope it doesn't all fall victim to "urban renewal."

Edited by mike1

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I'm sure they'll clean it up so that it looks pretty for the Super Bowl, but that entire region's problems go much deeper than the aesthetic. I grew up in the Great Lakes and it's sad to see the decline of great industrial cities such as Detroit, Cleveland, and Buffalo.

Houston kind of reminds me of some of those places in its dependence on a single industry. Just like Detroit once depended on autos, we depend on petroleum. I hope we can avoid their fate.

I also really love the historic architecture of those areas and I hope it doesn't all fall victim to "urban renewal."

I agree.

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Thought these color photograps from the 1930s and '40s would make a nice contrast. The city actually looks new and clean in the pictures of that era.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/f?fsaa...mp/~ammem_FOUF:

Very sad. Makes one wonder about Houston's own future...

Update: I can't seem to get the old link to work anymore, so go here instead if you are having problems:

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?amme...D(COLLID+fsac))

Don't know what the problem is with these photos. Let's try again!

According to the site, these were taken in 1944:

1a35404v.jpg

1a35407v.jpg

1a35403v.jpg

1a35406v.jpg

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Also it seems that bitterly cold winters helped drive people away from cities in the rust belt. I wonder if hyper-active hurricane seasons will have a similar effect here.

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Also it seems that bitterly cold winters helped drive people away from cities in the rust belt. I wonder if hyper-active hurricane seasons will have a similar effect here.

I don't think it would. Look at the state of Florida.

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I just moved here from Ann Arbor, so I've been to Detroit a few times.

If you sit in the upper deck at Comerica park and watch the Tigers play, you get the most amazing, beautiful view of the city skyline. But then you realize that almost all of those lovely buildings are deserted. I've heard rumors that the city is paying people to put lights on in those buildings during the super bowl to make it look like they are still in use.

After the game, you might want to walk to Greektown. It's a long 5 block walk past empy buildings and homeless people. Greektown is about 2 blocks long, and thriving, and the building that once housed artist space is now a casino. It's popular, but I thought the art stuff was cooler. Buses bring in the tourists, who stay in the casino, then leave, so there's no help for the local economy.

You walk back to your car past empty blocks, where all the houses have been razed. Here and there a few townhouse developments have sprung up, a la Midtown, but they are few and far between. Many of the neighborhoods were wrecked during the race riots in the 60's, then finished off in the Devil's night burnings in the 80's.

The city government is incredibly corrupt, all the wealth moved to the suburbs, and the populace is too poor to have any real clout. Oh, and don't forget that Ford is now laying off 30,000 employees.

I don't think it's ever coming back.

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What's the dynamic where a New York or Chicago can come back (because both of the cities struggled mightily in the 70s and 80s with crime, white flight, decay, etc) and not Detroit? Is it because there is no desire for whites to return, like they did in NYC and Chicago? Or is it because of the industry that is so unpredictable? Both?

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What's the dynamic where a New York or Chicago can come back (because both of the cities struggled mightily in the 70s and 80s with crime, white flight, decay, etc) and not Detroit? Is it because there is no desire for whites to return, like they did in NYC and Chicago? Or is it because of the industry that is so unpredictable? Both?

In a word? THEATER! :D

(...and probably some tax restructuring and ousting corrupt politicians didn't hurt, either)

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Back in the 1960's this city was the fourth largest city. :lol:

at 1,420,000.

As now looking at the city becoming the 11th largest

as the population decreases :(

Will Detroit gonna continue to drop to the 800,000's

what would be the population in 2020

Detroit was ~1.9million in the 1950s. I believe at the time the square mileage of Detroit was about 1/4th of Houston today. It is now in danger of dropping down to 12th from Jacksonville (already lost the 10 spot to San Jose). Really that is a certainty, but it will take a while. The population has already dropped into the 800s by the way, the question is if it will stay there or go up/down?

Jason

Edited by JasonDFW

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Detroit was ~1.9million in the 1950s. I believe at the time the square mileage of Detroit was about 1/4th of Houston today. It is now in danger of dropping down to 12th from Jacksonville (already lost the 10 stop to San Jose). Really that is a certainty, but it will take a while. The population has already dropped into the 800s by the way, the question is if it will stay there or go up/down?

Jason

Still is. Land area is either 138 or 140 square miles, to Houston's 633.

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To the previous post about the need of whites to come back to the city to save it, why is it that they have to be the savior? Atlanta is a prime example of a city with black leadership and a majority black population that is doing just fine without the savior of whites who feel the need to flee to the suburbs. A before the argument is made that crime was responsible for white flight, let's remember that when the flight began in the early to mid 60's before the riots, that flight was more the result of whites fleeing integration and the inevitable loss of power in city government due to the overwhelming black majority soon to take that power after being shut out for so long. Let's also remember that although people love to play up Detroit's crime rate, Dallas is now the murder capital of the country.

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Let's also remember that although people love to play up Detroit's crime rate, Dallas is now the murder capital of the country.

Detroit, a smaller city than Dallas, had over 375 murders last year to 198 in Dallas. Can you explain how it's the murder capital of the country? Usually Dallas is ranked 15th to 20th in murders, but it varies.

Jason

Edited by JasonDFW

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Dallas is consistently said to have the highest crime rate, but like all statistics, this one is massaged by someone with an agenda to make Dallas appear worse than it is. Petty theft is by far the highest number of crimes committed in any city, accounting for some 70% or more of all crimes committed. Theft, while annoying, is not violent. Theft accompanied by violence is robbery. The rate of violent crime is a much better indicator of a city's crime rate, and Dallas' is more in line with most Southern big cities.

Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans before Katrina, and up until last year, Chicago are the most violent big cities.

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What's the dynamic where a New York or Chicago can come back (because both of the cities struggled mightily in the 70s and 80s with crime, white flight, decay, etc) and not Detroit? Is it because there is no desire for whites to return, like they did in NYC and Chicago? Or is it because of the industry that is so unpredictable? Both?

Remember how Houston had to recover in the 80s because of trouble in the oil industry? I think Detroit probably was thriving in automobiles (one industry) and had a crash in revenue in that department, whereas New York and Chicago have many different areas of business to depend on. You won't see New York or Chicago in major trouble unless the entire stock market crashes (where you might see most of America recovering with them as well)

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Detroit is dying. there is not much reason why that city should be there now that its main and pretty much only industry has left...

let it be a lesson to us here in the OIL capital of the world...

Edited by zaphod

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When I was younger, "Gong to see the Canadian ballet" was a code phrase for going across the river from Detroit to the strip clubs in Windsor, Ontario.

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Photographs have been removed from this thread because of a legal threat received from the owner of the images and filed with Pair Networks, the HAIF hosting company.

The specific complaint follows:

June 7, 2006

DMCA Notice to Pair Networks

To whom it may concern,

I am the owner of www.midwestwebsites.com.

My Contact Information:

Mr. Jonathan Krueger

Midwest Websites, LLC

W223 N4994 Eastview Dr

262-442-0882

The copyrighted work being infringed upon includes use of the Detroit

skyline photo used on the main page of our website through the use of

illegal hotlinking of the image. I am requesting that this material be

disabled.

The web page containing the infringed image via illegal hotlinking is:

http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...36511bc940aa19-

405bca3c64b82df4&showtopic=4724&pid=72971&st=0&

The photo in dispute is the first image (the image of the Detroit

skyline). As you can see by rightclicking the image on

houstonarchitecture.info, they are directly linking to the image on

our server. We use this image on the main page of our website

http://www.midwestwebsites.com Although we did not take the photo

ourselves, we did purchase the rights to use it on our website from a

stock photo website.

The information in this notice is accurate, under penalty of perjury.

Jonathan Krueger Date: 6/7/2006

For those of you wondering what "W223 N4994" means in an address, it is "fire coordinates" used to denote an address for someone living in extreme rural Wisconsin. You wouldn't know this from the complaint filed by Mr. Krueger because he did not send Pair Networks his complete address. Possibly because he's ashamed of where he lives. The phone number he lists is a Verizon Wireless cell phone he bought in a suburb of Milwaukee, but the address he lists doesn't match up to anything in that area, so one could theorize that he's some college kid who bought a phone while at school, and is now at home working on his business.

Anyway, just a reminder -- it is a violation of our terms of service to post copyrighted information on HAIF. Link away, but posting is a legal problem for us.

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I will admit to not reading any of this thread, but I read the topic and will give my opinion.

I was in Detroit last summer for a wedding. Actually the wedding was in the burbs at a country club that was very nice. Not really sure which one, I was drunk most of the time.

But on Friday night before the wedding I gathered up 15 people and we hit a Tigers game at the new park. (I have been to 22 of the 30 parks in MLB so I had to go). At any rate, we got a driver and a van to take us to and from the game. As we drove into town I was amazed at the burned out look of the city. Downtown has a long ways to go before it resembles most Urban centers of todya.

The stadium itself was OK. For a new stadium I thought it left a lot to be desired. To make matters worse the CO2 system went out in the whole stadium and the beer was not flowing at all. We were pissed, but managed. There were a few stands that still had flowage. We spent much of our experience looking for beer rather than watching the game. I felt like the Stadium was very cavernous. Not the intimate feeling you get from other stadiums (new and old).

After the game our van picked up and we were in dyer need of beer. I asked the driver to pull over and I went into the first C-Store we saw. WOW, this place was scary. My wife asked my not to go in. Being the adventerous person I am I went for it. There was a very urban crowd with your typical junkies, drunks, and gang banger wannabes. It was no different than a few of the C-Stores I have hit in Houston beforem but I was out of my element.

At any rate. We really never experienced much more that what I told you. The city is light years behind a Houston in terms of revitialization. I think they have had a lot of problems with their major industries downsizing. It was sort of depressing, but we had a good time.

Sorry if I hyjacked this thread. B)

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If you read the book American Pharaoh, about Mayor Richard J. Daley, you will get a possible explanation of how Chicago avoided Detroit's fate.

Daley, who was mayor in the 60's and early 70's, controlled a vast machine that allowed him near dictatorial powers over city government. Chicago, like every other Midwestern city at this time, was witnessing the displacement of middle class white populations in large swaths of the city with impoverished black populations that had migrated north during the 1930's and 1940's. This demographic shift, for whatever reason, coincided with a dramatic rise in crime and the blighting of commercial districts.

In a pattern familiar to many major cities in the 60's, once an area of the city became blighted, that area grew and grew: like a cancer, it did not get smaller or stay the same. This was most noticeably the case with the "Bronzeville" area on Chicago's South Side that began in an area along 16th St. in the 1930's and extended south, then east, then west, until by the late 60's almost the entire South Side was undergoing a major shift. The major problem at this point was not how to save the South Side - that seemed like a lost cause - but how to protect downtown from the crime wave that was gutting the downtown districts of other Midwestern cities.

Enter Mayor Daley. As downtown business owners hollered mightily for help, Daley conceived a plan whereby to place a blockade on the south end of the downtown area that would protect the district from the encroaching blight. In other words, Daley wanted to prevent black people from filling the neighborhoods adjacent to downtown. He had to find a way to ensure that property values would not fall to the point where lower income people could move in, and the answer he came up with was a university.

The University of Illinois had long been planning a Chicago campus, but the conventional wisdom at this point was that it would go somewhere in the suburbs. Daley's influence on the planning boards brought about an abrupt change in this plan; to the dismay of the neighborhood that was hoping to be the lucky bride, and to the surprise of most people involved in planning the university, the University of Illinois at Chicago was soon set to be built in the Taylor St. area southwest of downtown. Like a chess piece, an enormous public project was maneuvered so as to protect Daley's city.

This stabilized property values on the south end of the business district, but what about the north and west sides? These were predominantly well-off, white areas, but a looming danger was the large wave of public housing projects planned for the city. Federal laws dictated that these be scattered across the city, a fact that could jeopardize existing neighborhoods.

Daley did fail to prevent one such project, Cabrini Green, from being built on the North Side, but through various political machinations he succeeded in forcing all the rest to be built in the already poor South Side area, especially along State Street. He then used his leverage to position the planned Dan Ryan Expressway, largest freeway in the world, so that it would run just to the west of all these projects, forming a barrier between their residents and all the neighborhoods to the west (including the one he grew up in). He could not control the presence of impoverished, crime-prone residents in his city, but he was able to alter where they lived and what communities they influenced.

One last coup by the mayor, and on a somewhat brighter note, was the building of a new headquarters by Sears, Roebuck, & Co. Long a mainstay on the West Side, Sears was at first thinking of following the trend of most major corporations and relocating to the suburbs. A nice campus of low rise buildings in a park-like setting was envisioned. Daley latched on to another option - that the company concentrate all its offices in a single building downtown. It would be the tallest building in the world. As the Mayor's office raced to come up with a location for it, one block seemed a good candidate, but it had a street running across the middle of it. In no time the street was wiped off the map, and the offer was made to Sears. The company accepted, and their soaring tower became an emblem of the fact that, whereas other cities were fleeing their downtowns in favor of sprawl, Chicago was going to take the opposite approach.

Like the pharaohs of old, Mayor Daley used his near-autocratic power to build a palatial city on the suffering backs of its poor. Today, Chicago is one of America's most stunning cities, but is also its most segregated.

Edited by H-Town Man

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Huh, that sounds like an interesting book. Detroit might have turned out differently if the University of Michigan had located there instead of Ann Arbor (that was a possibility).

Trophy Property, I see you have the same opinion of the new Tigers stadium (Comerica Park) that I do. It's just too big. And no tap beer? Just criminal. Minute Maid is a way better place to see a game. Plus you can actually hang out downtown after the game.

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H-Town Man

the way you wrote the summary of this book ~ sounds kinda heartless/materialistic to me. heh -

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H-Town Man

the way you wrote the summary of this book ~ sounds kinda heartless/materialistic to me. heh -

In his defense, that's how the subject of the book, Richard J. Daley, was.

Now his son is in office, and weilding much the same power.

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H-Town Man

the way you wrote the summary of this book ~ sounds kinda heartless/materialistic to me. heh -

much of history is.

sounds like an interesting book. thanks h-townman for taking the time

to summarize some of chicago's history. i am going there briefly at the

end of the month and as i go about, i will certainly look at the city in a

different way. it's always interesting to see how different cities evolved

and where their character originated --- for better or worse.

i'm still reading up on the texas history i inquired about a few months ago

and it is pretty wild how so many different/personal agendas combine to

form something unique.

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H-Town Man

the way you wrote the summary of this book ~ sounds kinda heartless/materialistic to me. heh -

I understand what you mean. I actually intended it to sound that way - sort of sarcastically telling the story from Daley's viewpoint.

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