Hotel Saint Augustine At 4110 Loretto Dr.

[Texasota]

The full block seems too big for 71 rooms.

I could see them keeping all the houses facing W Main and using the rest of the block though. Or maybe that's just what I'd prefer they do.

Or maybe they even keep some of the existing buildings and convert them for use by the hotel.

Somebody get me a site plan!

[Skyboxdweller]

I paid $30 to park my Roofnest at El Cosmico last Thanksgiving.  Do you think they will set aside spots for campers like me? 

0B266E84-6475-485C-9542-7BA5FB99B872.heic

Edited August 16, 2021 by Skyboxdweller

[wilcal]

I'm pretty sure the CoH has extremely stringent requirements for anything RV-park related, so I doubt it. That would  be something to see, though! 

[hindesky]

State permits. Address is ambiguous but I would suspect those 2 apartments would be my first guess. They are both empty.

Architect - https://www.lakeflato.com

Edited April 9, 2022 by hindesky

[j_cuevas713]

This is huge. I hope that other boutique hotel gets built in Montrose. We need more hotels in our neighborhoods. 

[hindesky]

https://www.bunkhousegroup.com

[hindesky]

New plat for the San Augustine hotel. Looks like it will take up the whole block. The Neartown Association is having a meeting with the Director of Project Development for the Menil on April 26th at 7pm.

 

Edited April 19, 2022 by hindesky

[talltexan83]

This will be a great addition to the Menil master plan and a welcome new hotel option for those visiting the Museum District/Montrose/Rice area.  I believe Menil also owns the entire block bounded by Mandell/Richmond/Colquitt/Loretto (??).......hopefully this new hotel coincides with some additional investment in that block and parking lot/maintenance barn.  There is a lot of potential on the block, but everything west of the Dan Flavin installation is looking particularly neglected these days. 

 

[Amlaham]

Wow so they're going to demolish those 10 buildings? Definitely not opposed lol, those apartment buildings are beyond out of shape!

[j_cuevas713]

I have a feeling this is going to spark more density along Richmond Ave. Plus I seriously can’t wait for Metro to build the University Line. 

[hindesky]

Slides from the presentation. The slide we have all seen is from Loretto St. facing the lobby area.

Landscape architects.

https://www.teneyckla.com

Edited April 27, 2022 by hindesky

[august948]

On 8/13/2021 at 11:42 AM, H-Town Man said:

Ah! I was thinking it was named for St. Thomas the Apostle. So much for the East/West theory. Yes, perhaps this was their intent - to unite the two greatest doctors of the Latin church. A more Neo-Platonic complement to the university's Scholasticism.

 

 

You may have overthought this one...apparently Hotel St Cecilia was named so because she is the patron saint of music. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/travel/02checkin.html

I would guess, then, that Hotel St. Augustine is being named for a similar reason.  St Augustine is the patron saint of brewers, printers, and theologians.  Make of that what you will...😉

[trymahjong]

I also viewed the lovely  presentation at the Neartown meeting. There was a question posed concerning security patrols. It was responded to in a throw away type answer…. No need for walking security till nightime….there will be cameras and people everywhere…..a lot of eyes and ears.

hmmmmmmm my own experience with one nest camera and one ring camera => great pictures of what happened and who did it BUT Houston criminals didn’t get memo that cameras were a crime deterrent IMO cameras aren’t that great to lead towards arrest and conviction. And about all those eyes and ears… I am remindered that COH gave the same Schpeel over security at Avondale promenade park “ no worries there will be lots of dog owners in dog park at all hours….. That turned out to be untrue and the park has been vandalized => in ground plants keep getting stolen  sigh.

The entire presentation centered on the openness, accessibility and freedom to move about this property and surrounding museums. Gotcha! But crime has really increased the past 2 years…. Sure violent crime, but also purse snatching, assaults and even panhandling. Attend one of the Central 1&2 Division PIP meetings and you see the statistics. I am surprised then that more thought didn’t go into the problem of adequate  security.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by trymahjong

[H-Town Man]

11 hours ago, august948 said:

You may have overthought this one...apparently Hotel St Cecilia was named so because she is the patron saint of music. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/travel/02checkin.html

I would guess, then, that Hotel St. Augustine is being named for a similar reason.  St Augustine is the patron saint of brewers, printers, and theologians.  Make of that what you will...😉

Since there is no brewery or large printing press nearby, but there is a university with theologians nearby, I'm guessing it's theologians... which pretty much dovetails with what I said before. St. Thomas and St. Augustine are the two greatest theologians in the Catholic tradition.

It COULD still be St. Augustine grass, but I'm not seeing much of that in the renderings....

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by H-Town Man

[iah77]

2 hours ago, trymahjong said:

I also viewed the lovely  presentation at the Neartown meeting. There was a question posed concerning security patrols. It was responded to in a throw away type answer…. No need for walking security till nightime….there will be cameras and people everywhere…..a lot of eyes and ears.

hmmmmmmm my own experience with one nest camera and one ring camera => great pictures of what happened and who did it BUT Houston criminals didn’t get memo that cameras were a crime deterrent IMO cameras aren’t that great to lead towards arrest and conviction. And about all those eyes and ears… I am remindered that COH gave the same Schpeel over security at Avondale promenade park “ no worries there will be lots of dog owners in dog park at all hours….. That turned out to be untrue and the park has been vandalized => in ground plants keep getting stolen  sigh.

The entire presentation centered on the openness, accessibility and freedom to move about this property and surrounding museums. Gotcha! But crime has really increased the past 2 years…. Sure violent crime, but also purse snatching, assaults and even panhandling. Attend one of the Central 1&2 Division PIP meetings and you see the statistics. I am surprised then that more thought didn’t go into the problem of adequate  security.

 

I agree it looks like a potential issue but why do you feel this is the hotel's problem? Shouldn't the blame be on the city? It's getting very expensive to put these extra responsibilities on not so large businesses. 

I was surprised how suburban it feels for the land values in that area.  They are tearing down a lot and seems like not replacing it with much.

[august948]

1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

Since there is no brewery or large printing press nearby, but there is a university with theologians nearby, I'm guessing it's theologians... which pretty much dovetails with what I said before. St. Thomas and St. Augustine are the two greatest theologians in the Catholic tradition.

It COULD still be St. Augustine grass, but I'm not seeing much of that in the renderings....

 

You may be right, and I'd certainly vote for St Augustine grass, but I don't usually credit developers/businesses for putting deep thought into things like this.  So, theologians yes, but I suspect due entirely to the presence of the university and not one iota due to the impact St Augustine made.  I'd bet that they considered calling it the St Thomas originally but backed off to avoid any fights with the university.

[Luminare]

2 hours ago, iah77 said:

I agree it looks like a potential issue but why do you feel this is the hotel's problem? Shouldn't the blame be on the city? It's getting very expensive to put these extra responsibilities on not so large businesses. 

I was surprised how suburban it feels for the land values in that area.  They are tearing down a lot and seems like not replacing it with much.

Also its....again....an unrestricted reserve. They can do LITERALLY whatever they want. They can put a 10' tall fence in the name of "security" and the same people would complain about it. The developer has zero responsibility in regards to crime in the area. That is the responsibility of the city. If people are worried about crime then complain to the city, don't shoulder that onto the developer. The only security the developer needs to worry about is its own, and for a hotel the whole point of a hotel is to make an experience as seamless and easy as possible to get to where you want to go and do what you want to do.

1 hour ago, august948 said:

You may be right, and I'd certainly vote for St Augustine grass, but I don't usually credit developers/businesses for putting deep thought into things like this.  So, theologians yes, but I suspect due entirely to the presence of the university and not one iota due to the impact St Augustine made.  I'd bet that they considered calling it the St Thomas originally but backed off to avoid any fights with the university.

Depends. Some developers really do put a lot of effort into what the name will be, and some put it off until the very last minute. I like the name St. Augustine. Feels like it fits.

As for the name being named after St. Augustine grass, while that would be hilarious...I'm going to table my actual opinions on St. Augustine grass. To put it lightly I'd rather throw every palette of that grass into a massive bonfire.

[H-Town Man]

2 hours ago, august948 said:

You may be right, and I'd certainly vote for St Augustine grass, but I don't usually credit developers/businesses for putting deep thought into things like this.  So, theologians yes, but I suspect due entirely to the presence of the university and not one iota due to the impact St Augustine made.  I'd bet that they considered calling it the St Thomas originally but backed off to avoid any fights with the university.

Well... you can't really separate anything named "Augustine" from the impact that St. Augustine made. That impact is why things are still being named after him 16 centuries later. Or named after things that were named after him (like the grass is probably named after St. Augustine, Florida, which was named after him). Plus all the things named "Austin" are named after him or someone/something named after him (Austin was the medieval English shortening of Augustine).

My posts here are a little tongue-in-cheek. I don't think the developers of this hotel are having seminar discussions on City of God, etc.

 

[trymahjong]

Oh my……” Complain-to the City about crime” sounds so easy. I guess it should be easy, but a small police force trying to cover a huge population in a relatively large geographic area makes complaining harder;  the chance of addressing those complaints……even harder.

I guess it only takes one encounter with a horrible  criminal “ up close and personal “to give one a new point of view.

Ideas to prioritize crime and safety hum  in your brain……no one wants anyone else to be a victim of a similar encounter. …….so most of the questions one posts sound a bit uh naive?

IMO Any developer that works so hard to have state of the art staff that come up with  a dynamite architectural  look, greenery to die for and a charming business……….that developer surely can research and develop a new or “ out of the box” way to offer patrons more safety against crime than a lone watchman walking the perimeter at night.

[freundb]

22 hours ago, hindesky said:

SHE'S BACK!!!

Edited April 27, 2022 by freundb

[iah77]

12 minutes ago, trymahjong said:

Oh my……” Complain-to the City about crime” sounds so easy. I guess it should be easy, but a small police force trying to cover a huge population in a relatively large geographic area makes complaining harder;  the chance of addressing those complaints……even harder.

I guess it only takes one encounter with a horrible  criminal “ up close and personal “to give one a new point of view.

Ideas to prioritize crime and safety hum  in your brain……no one wants anyone else to be a victim of a similar encounter. …….so most of the questions one posts sound a bit uh naive?

IMO Any developer that works so hard to have state of the art staff that come up with  a dynamite architectural  look, greenery to die for and a charming business……….that developer surely can research and develop a new or “ out of the box” way to offer patrons more safety against crime than a lone watchman walking the perimeter at night.

Yes, a hotelier should definitely get a criminology degree and research new and "out of the box" solutions to reduce crime as if this isn't one of societies most complex (and controversial) issues at the moment lol. Nice architecture and a garden are what a hotel owner should do, not be expected to police the areas outside the property. You should contact your local councilman and judges who unlike a hotel actually have the power (and mandate) to keep us all safe. 

[trymahjong]

Thank you for the advice. You are correct that I should step up and make my concerns about crime known to my local Avondale Civic, the Neartown MontroseSuper Neighborhood, the alliance of Superneighborhood, the Citywide PIP, the central 1&2 division PIP, the region 5 stake holders meeting, the Montrose TIRZ, The Montrose Management District, the district C town-hall meetings, plus all the various at large city council town-hall meetings.

But also, I should be able to withstand shaming for wanting developers ( with or without criminology degrees) to add anti crime measures to the list of “ to-do” when going into neighborhoods.  I should be able to withstand being criticized for thinking in todays world taking steps to save patrons from possible criminal actions should become the new norm. Yes, I-think I deserve an expectation of safety if I visit this wonderful new venue and I can desire that this developer work with HPD to make that happen.

[talltexan83]

This line of reasoning is a headscratcher for me........you are concerned about more crime from a development adding vibrancy/activity to an otherwise abandoned block of buildings?  I live in the area and only see this hotel as a net positive for crime in the area.

Lets get back on topic.

[samagon]

20 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

It COULD still be St. Augustine grass, but I'm not seeing much of that in the renderings....

 

I'm thinking the grass is the right answer. especially since original listings for permits were for "hotel invasive ground cover that mimics grass" that was before the marketing folks stepped in.

in a bit more seriousness (but not really), isn't the grass named after the city in Florida, which is named after Augustine of Hippo? so whether the hotel is named after the grass, the town in Florida, or the Saint, since they are all named after each other, isn't it all the same?

[Luminare]

15 hours ago, trymahjong said:

Oh my……” Complain-to the City about crime” sounds so easy. I guess it should be easy, but a small police force trying to cover a huge population in a relatively large geographic area makes complaining harder;  the chance of addressing those complaints……even harder.

I guess it only takes one encounter with a horrible  criminal “ up close and personal “to give one a new point of view.

Ideas to prioritize crime and safety hum  in your brain……no one wants anyone else to be a victim of a similar encounter. …….so most of the questions one posts sound a bit uh naive?

IMO Any developer that works so hard to have state of the art staff that come up with  a dynamite architectural  look, greenery to die for and a charming business……….that developer surely can research and develop a new or “ out of the box” way to offer patrons more safety against crime than a lone watchman walking the perimeter at night.

No one is saying your concerns about crime are wrong (at least I hope not), but the direction which you are aiming your concerns at is wrong. Nowhere in the city charter, or for that matter the state constitution do we ask developers to patrol, resolve, and police crime. Maybe really think about this. Do we really want private companies, landlords, developers, etc... being responsible for not only trying to solve crimes, or police, but patrol neighborhoods? Mafias did that. In movies like Robocop, that was OCP.

Here is the thing, are there massive issues with policing, and how we distribute police/personnel at large within cities...yes, but does that mean as an assist we turn to developers, landlords, and companies to pick up the slack? I already don't like centralized state authorities, but the opposite also seems like a nightmare. Developers, landlords, and companies are only responsible for one thing...to make money and to take responsibility for themselves. That is it. By Federal Constitution, State Constitution, and Local Charter its our centralized governments that have been given exclusive right to enforce laws, and by the way that is also with exclusive right to do so by force or even by violence in certain circumstances.

Now am I saying with all of this you want exactly what I'm laying out here? No. However there has been a very disturbing trend over the past several years that for the sake of "safety", "security", and "prioritizing crime" that the answer is larger government authority, and more centralizing and authority for companies, and developers, and landlords to act in the "best interests" of a community whatever that means (insert - the road to hell is paved with "good intentions"). If you want to solve crime then make it known at the ballot box in the next elections, campaign on those issues. NYC actually did this with its current new mayor. DeBlasio paved the way for crime to increase, and in response the people elected a former police commander who, you guessed it, will be tougher on crime (of course that remains to be seen).

[trymahjong]

1 hour ago, talltexan83 said:

This line of reasoning is a headscratcher for me........you are concerned about more crime from a development adding vibrancy/activity to an otherwise abandoned block of buildings?  I live in the area and only see this hotel as a net positive for crime in the area.

Lets get back on topic.

Oh my 

perhaps I didn’t communicate properly. I am 100% in favor of this  project.
I differ in what my expectation of “ safety” is from the developer. One guy late at night patrolling doesn’t meet my expectation. I guess I am surprised your neighborhood,  perhaps has not experienced the uptick in non violent crime that my neighborhood has. Perhaps it’s because we have a kazillion bars and restaurants here that prompt, more car break ins……assaults…being confronted by unknown people asking for  moneY those things make we wonder if the freedom of access of this proposed nice venue might not be taken advantage of by nefarious types.

it’s already been established HPD is woefully understaffed. Plus HPD makes no attempt to hide their exasperation at citizens wanting local crime to be  vigorously addressed rather HPD wants to prioritize real crime. Geez,

So I considered that it should be viable request when  a developer comes into an area and responds to neighbors desire towards noise abatement, traffic congestion,  for beautiful venues , proper streets and sidewalks plus  green space ….perhaps safety should also be a consideration. 

 

I didn’t realize I would cause such a jumble when I confessed to wanting safety addressed. The Montrose collective seemed 5o respond to local neighbors request concerning safety. In the  back of my mind, perhaps that is why I shared my concerns over  the lack of that in this forum.

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

I'm thinking the grass is the right answer. especially since original listings for permits were for "hotel invasive ground cover that mimics grass" that was before the marketing folks stepped in.

in a bit more seriousness (but not really), isn't the grass named after the city in Florida, which is named after Augustine of Hippo? so whether the hotel is named after the grass, the town in Florida, or the Saint, since they are all named after each other, isn't it all the same?

In my last post I mentioned that I thought the grass was indeed named after the city in Florida. Also the city of Austin, Texas, is named after Stephen F. Austin, whose distant ancestor probably got his name from being raised in an orphanage run by Austin monks, otherwise known as Augustinian monks, who took their name from St. Augustine (of Hippo).

 

[trymahjong]

6 minutes ago, Luminare said:

No one is saying your concerns about crime are wrong (at least I hope not), but the direction which you are aiming your concerns at is wrong. Nowhere in the city charter, or for that matter the state constitution do we ask developers to patrol, resolve, and police crime. Maybe really think about this. Do we really want private companies, landlords, developers, etc... being responsible for not only trying to solve crimes, or police, but patrol neighborhoods? Mafias did that. In movies like Robocop, that was OCP.

Here is the thing, are there massive issues with policing, and how we distribute police/personnel at large within cities...yes, but does that mean as an assist we turn to developers, landlords, and companies to pick up the slack? I already don't like centralized state authorities, but the opposite also seems like a nightmare. Developers, landlords, and companies are only responsible for one thing...to make money and to take responsibility for themselves. That is it. By Federal Constitution, State Constitution, and Local Charter its our centralized governments that have been given exclusive right to enforce laws, and by the way that is also with exclusive right to do so by force or even by violence in certain circumstances.

Now am I saying with all of this you want exactly what I'm laying out here? No. However there has been a very disturbing trend over the past several years that for the sake of "safety", "security", and "prioritizing crime" that the answer is larger government authority, and more centralizing and authority for companies, and developers, and landlords to act in the "best interests" of a community whatever that means (insert - the road to hell is paved with "good intentions"). If you want to solve crime then make it known at the ballot box in the next elections, campaign on those issues. NYC actually did this with its current new mayor. DeBlasio paved the way for crime to increase, and in response the people elected a former police commander who, you guessed it, will be tougher on crime (of course that remains to be seen).

I can see the value of all you have laid out in your arguments.

But in the same way I appreciate feeling safe as I walk around The Montrose Collective,knowing there is a security person there 24/7 to look out for me and I don’t have to depend on some poor waiter to defend me if something happens……..that is my desire if I should find myself sitting on the patio of the St Augustine hotel.

Just that simple, an un obtrusive security person 24/7.

it is unexplainable I guess, the  notion, that one can feel safe knowing some security guard is there ………somewhere. Lol

[Luminare]

1 minute ago, trymahjong said:

I can see the value of all you have laid out in your arguments.

But in the same way I appreciate feeling safe as I walk around The Montrose Collective,knowing there is a security person there 24/7 to look out for me and I don’t have to depend on some poor waiter to defend me if something happens……..that is my desire if I should find myself sitting on the patio of the St Augustine hotel.

Just that simple, an un obtrusive security person 24/7.

it is unexplainable I guess, the  notion, that one can feel safe knowing some security guard is there ………somewhere. Lol

Seriously I don't say this below to be personal in any way...really. Below is a standard I hold for myself and everyone else.

If the above quote is your personal preference, and if that is how you wish to not only view the world, but also live your life then that is your own business. You do you. We all have needs, wants, etc... and I genuinely wish you get those wants and needs meet, but its entirely another thing to ask others to conform to what you want for the sake of your personal safety. I found this statement revealing. I get it we all care about ourselves at the end of the day, but its another when you are using general crime, or general neighborhood concerns to shield the fact that you personally want protection. That crosses a line for me. Its your responsibility to protect yourself, and keep yourself safe. Not the responsibility of others. If you really have a fear of being attacked at every place you take a seat or walk around then maybe that is something you should look within yourself and ask yourself, "Why do I always have this need for others to provide me security, and is it fair of me to ask others to provide that security for me when they have no obligation to do so?" "What can I do to alleviate those concerns in my own way?" Maybe ask that before you ask every developer to provide a security guard for every property you walk upon.

Again not personal here. I don't know you personally. I glad you express these concerns. Just don't expect others to do things you could do for yourself.

[jmitch94]

40 minutes ago, trymahjong said:

I can see the value of all you have laid out in your arguments.

But in the same way I appreciate feeling safe as I walk around The Montrose Collective,knowing there is a security person there 24/7 to look out for me and I don’t have to depend on some poor waiter to defend me if something happens……..that is my desire if I should find myself sitting on the patio of the St Augustine hotel.

Just that simple, an un obtrusive security person 24/7.

it is unexplainable I guess, the  notion, that one can feel safe knowing some security guard is there ………somewhere. Lol

A security guard is nothing more than a dedicated 911 caller. You are more likely to have a waiter step in and protect you during an assault than 90% of security personnel. I’ve seen establishments get catalytic converters stolen and cars broken into while security was actually in the parking lot.