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I don’t think the whole conversation got moved over here from The Mill thread, but it looks like this property is under contract and the rumor is that Tillman Fertitta/Landrys has bought it. I walked by today and there were some fresh surveying stakes marking the property boundaries, but not much more has changed.  

https://www.us.jll.com/en/investorcenter/land-development-site/12-acre-infill-oz-development-opportunity-with-adaptive-reuse-buildings-houston-houston-tx-unitedstates

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On 12/4/2021 at 12:41 PM, sapo2367 said:

I don’t think the whole conversation got moved over here from The Mill thread, but it looks like this property is under contract and the rumor is that Tillman Fertitta/Landrys has bought it. I walked by today and there were some fresh surveying stakes marking the property boundaries, but not much more has changed.  

https://www.us.jll.com/en/investorcenter/land-development-site/12-acre-infill-oz-development-opportunity-with-adaptive-reuse-buildings-houston-houston-tx-unitedstates

Do we know of any other Fertitta-developed mixed use or other type of land use besides restaurants that he has been involved in?

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6 minutes ago, wilcal said:

Do we know of any other Fertitta-developed mixed use or other type of land use besides restaurants that he has been involved in?

Not that I know of, but I don't really like him that much, so don't pay that much attention to what he does, other than hope he doesn't manage to make Galveston Island look like Miami beach.

I will believe Fertitta bought the Olshan property when the deed is recorded. Until then, it's just supposition.

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21 hours ago, wilcal said:

Do we know of any other Fertitta-developed mixed use or other type of land use besides restaurants that he has been involved in?

he has at least one warehouse that I know of

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Landry'S/@29.7843687,-95.4536611,16z/data=!4m9!1m2!2m1!1sLandry's!3m5!1s0x8640c6c6e34d8a25:0x6bcba908a3d2846c!8m2!3d29.7845155!4d-95.4539067!15sCghMYW5kcnkncyIDiAEB

would be a terribly disappointing result if that's what this was slated to become.

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5 hours ago, phillip_white said:

Do casinos count as mixed use? 🤔 

Yes, that's a good point actually. 

5 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

Rumored practice facility? Probably not but it would make more sense than Clear Lake as mentioned in the article. 

https://houston.culturemap.com/news/city-life/10-08-18-toyota-center-turns-15-houston-rockets-tilman-fertitta-tad-davis-houston-astros-jim-crane/
 

Kind of an interesting idea, but still such a weird thought. Suburban location would kind of make sense because I think more players are out in the suburbs. 

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8 minutes ago, wilcal said:

Yes, that's a good point actually. 

Kind of an interesting idea, but still such a weird thought. Suburban location would kind of make sense because I think more players are out in the suburbs. 

I’d actually be very curious to know where each player on the roster lived. I actually wouldn’t be shocked if most lived “in town”. 

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5 minutes ago, nate4l1f3 said:

I’d actually be very curious to know where each player on the roster lived. I actually wouldn’t be shocked if most lived “in town”. 

I know that Harden built a place in Rivercrest, so that's Westheimer at BW8. 

Steve Francis lived in Memorial Villages. Tracy McGrady lived in Sugarland. 

I think when George Springer first became an Astros staple he was living in one of the towers next to Hermann Park. Dallas Keuchel lived in the tower at Kirby @ Westheimer. 

So there are some athletes in town. Rockets roster has some up and coming young guys, so I wouldn't doubt a few live in town. I think cheapest NBA salary is about $1.5 mil whereas with MLB it was in the $500s. 

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I have a friend who lives downtown and he used to see a few of the players in the elevator of his apartment building.  It was only a few blocks from the Toyota center so pretty easy commute. For a lot of younger guys too it’s probable you are going to get traded so no rush to put down roots — I could see renting a $$ apartment downtown being an appealing option for them. 

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14 hours ago, wilcal said:

I know that Harden built a place in Rivercrest, so that's Westheimer at BW8. 

Steve Francis lived in Memorial Villages. Tracy McGrady lived in Sugarland. 

I think when George Springer first became an Astros staple he was living in one of the towers next to Hermann Park. Dallas Keuchel lived in the tower at Kirby @ Westheimer. 

So there are some athletes in town. Rockets roster has some up and coming young guys, so I wouldn't doubt a few live in town. I think cheapest NBA salary is about $1.5 mil whereas with MLB it was in the $500s. 

Watt (and a few other NFL players) lived in Shadow Creek Ranch.

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1 hour ago, JBTX said:

Well, it's definitely not Polk and Emancipation. But please HEB wizards, we request your presence at the Olshan site.

According to all of the compact city urban planner "experts" I've been reading lately, you don't really want an HEB there, as even the small HEB's are too large. You want something like an average German ReWe store of 10,000 sq ft and limited selection of stuff you don't like, but is all good for you. No parking, because everyone loves to walk when they live in an urban area. Bwahahaha.

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10 minutes ago, Ross said:

According to all of the compact city urban planner "experts" I've been reading lately, you don't really want an HEB there, as even the small HEB's are too large. You want something like an average German ReWe store of 10,000 sq ft and limited selection of stuff you don't like, but is all good for you. No parking, because everyone loves to walk when they live in an urban area. Bwahahaha.

In college I spent some time in Germany and shopped at ReWe (I did walk to it btw). My fav part was the ‘American’ section with muffins and peanut butter (complete with the Stars and Stripes on the packaging). That and the fact that the were always playing acoustic covers of Rihanna songs on the PA system. 

I was probably there 2x a week because my fridge/kitchen was really small, but it was super convenient so it wasn’t a big deal. Once every other month I’d go a few tram stops down to the larger target-like store for bulk items or things ReWe didn't have. 

All it all it wasn’t a bad way to live :)

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1 hour ago, Ross said:

According to all of the compact city urban planner "experts" I've been reading lately, you don't really want an HEB there, as even the small HEB's are too large. You want something like an average German ReWe store of 10,000 sq ft and limited selection of stuff you don't like, but is all good for you. No parking, because everyone loves to walk when they live in an urban area. Bwahahaha.

As much as I can tell this is dripping in irony, I'd walk for groceries there. Of course, I would walk there cause I live <5min walk away, but still.

That said, one of my personal favorite things to do abroad is to visit grocery stores/supermarkets, just to check the out. Great memories of ReWe and their $0.33 beers.

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11 hours ago, Ross said:

According to all of the compact city urban planner "experts" I've been reading lately, you don't really want an HEB there, as even the small HEB's are too large. You want something like an average German ReWe store of 10,000 sq ft and limited selection of stuff you don't like, but is all good for you. No parking, because everyone loves to walk when they live in an urban area. Bwahahaha.

if it has to be a German brand, I'd absolutely love to have a Lidl in the neighborhood!

I'll settle for an Aldi though, which considering they are actually doing business in America, is a realistic thing.

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On 1/27/2022 at 7:21 AM, samagon said:

if it has to be a German brand, I'd absolutely love to have a Lidl in the neighborhood!

I'll settle for an Aldi though, which considering they are actually doing business in America, is a realistic thing.

Not only does Aldi do business in America, they do business in Houston.  FWIW, Lidl also does business in America.

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37 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Not only does Aldi do business in America, they do business in Houston.  FWIW, Lidl also does business in America.

I once tried going to the one in Pasadena after visiting my dentist. Walked up to get a kart but had no clue you had to pay for and since I didn't have .25¢ I turned around and left. I saw that you got the quarter back when you return the kart. My niece loved shopping at the Aldi in College Station when she lived there.

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Does no one remember when Auchan inexplicably had two stores in Houston? French, not German, and HUUUUUGE, not compact, but still. Quarters for carts.

*To be clear, I barely remember it. I was pretty young, but I distinctly remember using a quarter to get a cart. I think I got to keep it when I returned the cart.

Edited by Texasota
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14 hours ago, hindesky said:

I once tried going to the one in Pasadena after visiting my dentist. Walked up to get a kart but had no clue you had to pay for and since I didn't have .25¢ I turned around and left. I saw that you got the quarter back when you return the kart. My niece loved shopping at the Aldi in College Station when she lived there.

If you go in and tell them you don't have a quarter for the carts, they'll give you one or give you a cart.  When they first started popping up, I talked with the manager at one of the stores on hwy 6 and he told me they were concentrating on the outer areas of town due to real estate prices.  Don't know if that is still true, but I know of only one that is inside the loop, on OST in a fairly low-rent area.

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7 minutes ago, Texasota said:

Does no one remember when Auchan inexplicably had two stores in Houston? French, not German, and HUUUUUGE, not compact, but still. Quarters for carts.

*To be clear, I barely remember it. I was pretty young, but I distinctly remember using a quarter to get a cart. I think I got to keep it when I returned the cart.

I didn't know they had two stores but we used to go to the Auchan on the west belt when we first moved here.  They had the best eclairs and probably the largest cheese selection in town at the time.  It was a big loss for us when they closed up.  It was also the first time I had ever seen the insert-quarter carts.

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On 1/29/2022 at 6:42 AM, Texasota said:

Does no one remember when Auchan inexplicably had two stores in Houston? French, not German, and HUUUUUGE, not compact, but still. Quarters for carts.

*To be clear, I barely remember it. I was pretty young, but I distinctly remember using a quarter to get a cart. I think I got to keep it when I returned the cart.

they did, my mom enjoyed shopping there, which meant as a kid I got to enjoy pushing the cart with the quarter in it around the store.

it is a much more elegant solution than a cart that has a wheel that locks up when you cross some boundary, the inevitable result is a cart with 1 bad wheel that no one wants to use.

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On 1/26/2022 at 9:06 PM, Ross said:

According to all of the compact city urban planner "experts" I've been reading lately, you don't really want an HEB there, as even the small HEB's are too large. You want something like an average German ReWe store of 10,000 sq ft and limited selection of stuff you don't like, but is all good for you. No parking, because everyone loves to walk when they live in an urban area. Bwahahaha.

Is it not possible to build a multi-story HEB...

I mean, seriously, I've never seen one but there's no reason why they couldn't stack multiple floors of parking and retail. Is there a *truly* walkable HEB anywhere in the city?

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Just now, Andrew Ewert said:

Is it not possible to build a multi-story HEB...

I mean, seriously, I've never seen one but there's no reason why they couldn't stack multiple floors of parking and retail. Is there a *truly* walkable HEB anywhere in the city?

HEB in Buffalo Heights and Bellaire are multistory with parking in an adjacent garage and underground, respectively.

 

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5 minutes ago, Karin said:

HEB in Buffalo Heights and Bellaire are multistory with parking in an adjacent garage and underground, respectively.

 

My memory may be wrong, but both of those are just single-story for the actual retail portion, right? I was thinking more like multiple floors for retail, multiple floors for parking. Keep the footprint as small as possible. But I was mostly reacting to the person saying that the Olshan site was not large enough for even a small HEB, but maybe that's not true if you're not doing surface parking.

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Here me out: drive through HEB.

3 hours ago, sapo2367 said:

@wilcal did some great photoshop showing the Montrose HEB on this property -- there is a ton of space for everyone's Ford F-250 even with a single story HEB :)

nuxGdzB.jpg

 

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On 6/24/2021 at 2:54 PM, sapo2367 said:

Triggering for all the East End people 

image.png.084002abad906898d825f3692bb0cdc4.png

I know I'm 8 months late, but notice how they labeled neighborhoods miles away, but didn't label Third Ward, which is right adjacent to it. 🙃

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If this was actually purchased by Tilman, I do think this will be where they put the new practice facility. Interesting use of the property and I would obviously much prefer an HEB but it makes sense as it's fairly close to Toyota Center, big enough to get creative and most likely cheaper than a lot of other surrounding areas. 

This tweet leads me to believe something is in the works. Not necessarily at this location but somewhere. 

https://twitter.com/FeliciaPStone/status/1487854877527232520?s=20&t=hpLjBYrGfrT64NJxloB5lQ

This is the wife of the GM of the Rockets responding to a fan complaining about the practice facility. Additionally, this tweet was liked by Tilman's son. 

Edited by I'm Not a Robot
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On 2/4/2022 at 2:20 PM, sapo2367 said:

@wilcal did some great photoshop showing the Montrose HEB on this property -- there is a ton of space for everyone's Ford F-250 even with a single story HEB :)

I believe the only 2 story part of the Heights HEB is the pharmacy on the ground floor.

 

in google maps you have the option if you right click, to select 'measure distance' down on the bottom, if you connect the distance measured back on itself, it will give you the area. essentially the area you highlighted in red is about 600,000 SF. 

HEB at Heights/Washington is on 235,000 SF. HEB at Bissonet and Bellaire is on 145,000 SF. HEB at Shepherd and 23rd is on 195,000 SF. 

they'd be out of their minds to do a multi story location here. building up costs money, the land doesn't cost enough to consider the benefit of going up. so lets look at some in the loop HEB 1 story locations.

Montrose HEB is (with a full parking lot) is on 315,000 SF. the newest HEB at 288 and MacGregor is 550,000 SF.

the problem with the East End site is that it's separated by streets. Live Oak and Commerce. no way they'd make customers park, then cross Commerce to go shopping. considering though Live Oak dead ends at Commerce, I bet they could get the city to relinquish the slice of Live Oak between Commerce and Canal. that would give them 360,000 SF to play with in one contiguous lot. which is more than enough for a Montrose sized store. 

for a good portion of the East End, this site is no easier to get to than Gulfgate HEB, or even 288 HEB. however, from the East River site? this is super close to that, and also close to the newer apartments downtown who are underserved for groceries too. it really does make sense.

Edited by samagon
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5 hours ago, I'm Not a Robot said:

If this was actually purchased by Tilman, I do think this will be where they put the new practice facility. Interesting use of the property and I would obviously much prefer an HEB but it makes sense as it's fairly close to Toyota Center, big enough to get creative and most likely cheaper than a lot of other surrounding areas. 

This tweet leads me to believe something is in the works. Not necessarily at this location but somewhere. 

https://twitter.com/FeliciaPStone/status/1487854877527232520?s=20&t=hpLjBYrGfrT64NJxloB5lQ

This is the wife of the GM of the Rockets responding to a fan complaining about the practice facility. Additionally, this tweet was liked by Tilman's son. 

And they just upgraded the team plane with new NBA amenities. You might be right about. 

Capture.PNG

Edited by j_cuevas713
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7 hours ago, samagon said:

in google maps you have the option if you right click, to select 'measure distance' down on the bottom, if you connect the distance measured back on itself, it will give you the area. essentially the area you highlighted in red is about 600,000 SF. 

HEB at Heights/Washington is on 235,000 SF. HEB at Bissonet and Bellaire is on 145,000 SF. HEB at Shepherd and 23rd is on 195,000 SF. 

they'd be out of their minds to do a multi story location here. building up costs money, the land doesn't cost enough to consider the benefit of going up. so lets look at some in the loop HEB 1 story locations.

Montrose HEB is (with a full parking lot) is on 315,000 SF. the newest HEB at 288 and MacGregor is 550,000 SF.

the problem with the East End site is that it's separated by streets. Live Oak and Commerce. no way they'd make customers park, then cross Commerce to go shopping. considering though Live Oak dead ends at Commerce, I bet they could get the city to relinquish the slice of Live Oak between Commerce and Canal. that would give them 360,000 SF to play with in one contiguous lot. which is more than enough for a Montrose sized store. 

for a good portion of the East End, this site is no easier to get to than Gulfgate HEB, or even 288 HEB. however, from the East River site? this is super close to that, and also close to the newer apartments downtown who are underserved for groceries too. it really does make sense.

Somewhere in the various links I saw that this property includes the option to remove white oak alley. 

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On 2/7/2022 at 1:50 PM, samagon said:

they'd be out of their minds to do a multi story location here. building up costs money, the land doesn't cost enough to consider the benefit of going up. so lets look at some in the loop HEB 1 story locations.

Perhaps not a great business decision, but it seems like the city should be doing everything it can to deter anyone from building another giant surface lot inside the loop ever again.

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49 minutes ago, Andrew Ewert said:

Perhaps not a great business decision, but it seems like the city should be doing everything it can to deter anyone from building another giant surface lot inside the loop ever again.

Why?

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17 hours ago, Andrew Ewert said:

Perhaps not a great business decision, but it seems like the city should be doing everything it can to deter anyone from building another giant surface lot inside the loop ever again.

I don't know if deterring giant surface lots would be the right way to put it, maybe encourage better use of land, specifically around light rail?

for instance, maybe the city could encourage the owners of Lot C to bring in HEB. it'll be right next to the freeway entrance ramps, it's right across from the stadium stop on the light rail, easy access for Harrisburg as well as Navigation.

I mean, that lot is in use, 80 times for MLB home games, 15 times for MLS home games. and randomly for other events. otherwise it's even less useful than most surface lots inside the loop (surface lots for the NFL stadium are probably even less useful). 

it's about 390,000 SF, so it's plenty big enough, none of that land will be encroached by the freeway, Lot B is already going away, and there is tons of parking still in the area. the huge bonus will be to wrecker drivers who get to tow all the people who decide they can park there for the baseball games. but yeah, that is a huge waste of very useful real estate right next to a light rail line, and about to have very easy access for freeway access.

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1 hour ago, samagon said:

I don't know if deterring giant surface lots would be the right way to put it, maybe encourage better use of land, specifically around light rail?

for instance, maybe the city could encourage the owners of Lot C to bring in HEB. it'll be right next to the freeway entrance ramps, it's right across from the stadium stop on the light rail, easy access for Harrisburg as well as Navigation.

I mean, that lot is in use, 80 times for MLB home games, 15 times for MLS home games. and randomly for other events. otherwise it's even less useful than most surface lots inside the loop (surface lots for the NFL stadium are probably even less useful). 

it's about 390,000 SF, so it's plenty big enough, none of that land will be encroached by the freeway, Lot B is already going away, and there is tons of parking still in the area. the huge bonus will be to wrecker drivers who get to tow all the people who decide they can park there for the baseball games. but yeah, that is a huge waste of very useful real estate right next to a light rail line, and about to have very easy access for freeway access.

The city is welcome to recruit new businesses and/or propose other uses, but it does come down to whether or not it's a great business decision.  It could be that the best use for the land at the moment is a parking lot.  Much of the development in downtown has been on surface lots that dot the area.  You can be sure, though, that if the land is really valuable then it will be redeveloped at some point.  We should think of these giant surface lots as future potential.  What fun would it be if everything got developed today and then we had nothing to look forward to?

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you're certainly right, I'm not suggesting that the city strongarm whoever owns that property.

one day it will be something better, and I mean, I guess it could be the gutted our husk of a hotel.

this is probably a good topic for the general section "what is the least useful property inside the loop that has the most potential?"

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3 hours ago, samagon said:

you're certainly right, I'm not suggesting that the city strongarm whoever owns that property.

one day it will be something better, and I mean, I guess it could be the gutted our husk of a hotel.

this is probably a good topic for the general section "what is the least useful property inside the loop that has the most potential?"

My vote is for anywhere there is a Chipotle.

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