The Mill: Mixed-Use at 2315 Navigation Blvd

[JBTX]

We have some heavy equipment on site. It may just be parked here, but it looks way too big for the other nearby projects (utilities work on the esplanade, Forth completion, warehouse demo on Commerce).

[BeerNut]

8 minutes ago, JBTX said:

We have some heavy equipment on site. It may just be parked here, but it looks way too big for the other nearby projects (utilities work on the esplanade, Forth completion, warehouse demo on Commerce).

[hindesky]

[JBTX]

3 minutes ago, hindesky said:

Thank you! I uploaded it while walking the dog and it wouldn't let me rotate...

I still don't know why it uploaded upside down, but oh well.

[JBTX]

Update: work has commenced. Pipe on site. File not upside down.

[DJF]

I am obsessed with the future development of Navigation / Canal /Commerce. 

• There is a rotary / roundabout coming to replace the intersection at Jensen and Navigation / Runnels
• Rumor has it that the Lumber Yard on Canal and Commerce was sold to the developers of Kemah Boardwalk (Landrys?)  Any truth to this ?

[wilcal]

1 hour ago, DJF said:

I am obsessed with the future development of Navigation / Canal /Commerce. 

• There is a rotary / roundabout coming to replace the intersection at Jensen and Navigation / Runnels
• Rumor has it that the Lumber Yard on Canal and Commerce was sold to the developers of Kemah Boardwalk (Landrys?)  Any truth to this ?

I asked the bartender at Moon Tower if he had heard anything about the Pruitt that was recently sold and he told me it was Fertitta that had purchased it. If this was a large coordinated play, that would be WILD

[DJF]

A block of restaurants, entertainment complex ?  Supermarket??

 

[sapo2367]

I’ve been spreading the rumor that HEB will be moving into the old Olshan Lumber space. Trying to manifest what I want to see in the world :)

[ljchou]

  

12 hours ago, DJF said:

I am obsessed with the future development of Navigation / Canal /Commerce. 

• There is a rotary / roundabout coming to replace the intersection at Jensen and Navigation / Runnels
• Rumor has it that the Lumber Yard on Canal and Commerce was sold to the developers of Kemah Boardwalk (Landrys?)  Any truth to this ?

@DJF Where did you hear this rumor?

Can anyone find the "for sale" page for Olshan? If not, that could be the case. Especially since they were attempting to sell it in parcels.

Edited November 17, 2021 by ljchou

[sapo2367]

16 minutes ago, ljchou said:

  

@DJF Where did you hear this rumor?

Can anyone find the "for sale" page for Olshan? If not, that could be the case. Especially since they were attempting to sell it in parcels.

I think it is here -- it does say under contract :O

https://www.us.jll.com/en/investorcenter/land-development-site/12-acre-infill-oz-development-opportunity-with-adaptive-reuse-buildings-houston-houston-tx-unitedstates

Edited November 17, 2021 by sapo2367

[DJF]

I heard it from an East End District member

 

[ljchou]

I was promptly reminded by my partner that Landry's developments are "gaudy light shows" so let's pray to the real estate gods that we don't get an Aquarium, Kemah or TRex Cafe

[sapo2367]

Hopefully if there is some major investment at that site (gaudy or not :P), it will give the city a kick in the butt to pull the old rail lines out of commerce. Maybe replace it with a bike path and some real sidewalks.

[Andrew Ewert]

Not that Tillman Fertitta hasn't done a lot of good for the city of Houston, but man it would be a bummer if any sort of Landry's project showed up in East End/EaDo. Just not a fit for the neighborhood at all. :/

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, ljchou said:

I was promptly reminded by my partner that Landry's developments are "gaudy light shows" so let's pray to the real estate gods that we don't get an Aquarium, Kemah or TRex Cafe

34 minutes ago, Andrew Ewert said:

Not that Tillman Fertitta hasn't done a lot of good for the city of Houston, but man it would be a bummer if any sort of Landry's project showed up in East End/EaDo. Just not a fit for the neighborhood at all. :/

Because all Landry's projects are exactly the same?

Downtown Aquarium

Downtown Westin Hotel/Vic & Anthony's

The Post Oak

Kemah Boardwalk

Galveston Pleasure Pier

San Luis Resort 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Houston19514

[ljchou]

24 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Because all Landry's projects are exactly the same?

Downtown Aquarium

Downtown Westin Hotel/Vic & Anthony's

The Post Oak

Kemah Boardwalk

Galveston Pleasure Pier

San Luis Resort 

They're all basically amusement park-like or luxury experiencel. I'm hoping it's not the former.

[JBTX]

What, y'all aren't hype for a 12.125 acre Joe's Crab Shack and bulldozing the Pruitt garage for valet parking?! Come on!

All jokes aside, as a UH alumni, obviously I love Tillman, but I agree that many of his ventures don't seem like a natural fit in the neighborhood. But hey, maybe they are branching out and diversifying their portfolio.

Also, @Moderators, can we please move all the Olshan/Pruitt/Tillman rumor posts into the existing Olshan thread over in the East End sub?

[I'm Not a Robot]

18 minutes ago, JBTX said:

What, y'all aren't hype for a 12.125 acre Joe's Crab Shack and bulldozing the Pruitt garage for valet parking?! Come on!

All jokes aside, as a UH alumni, obviously I love Tillman, but I agree that many of his ventures don't seem like a natural fit in the neighborhood. But hey, maybe they are branching out and diversifying their portfolio.

Also, @Moderators, can we please move all the Olshan/Pruitt/Tillman rumor posts into the existing Olshan thread over in the East End sub?

I'm hoping for the largest concept Rainforest Cafe in the country. 

 

Not a big Tilman fan (ruined my Rockets in a blink of an eye because he wouldn't let the GM at the time do his job). I think he's nothing but a salesman who will cut bait if things get rough, but I'm curious what this ends up being. 

[j_cuevas713]

I was doing some random research in to mob families of Texas and the Tilman's ran Galveston along with the Maceo family back in the day. No surprise he's made a fortune in the industry he's in and probably says a lot about how he runs things. I would love to see something more upscale and classy from him, similar to what he did in Uptown. My ONLY hope is that the little red brick building on the property stays but knowing Tilman I won't hold my breath. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by j_cuevas713

[DJF]

Love the brick building and extended small nook on top.  I have full view of it from rear window...

 

[77011transplant]

20 hours ago, I'm Not a Robot said:

I'm hoping for the largest concept Rainforest Cafe in the country. 

A friend (a fully grown adult woman) LOVES Rainforest Cafe. She says it's her favorite restaurant. So there's at least a market of one for this. 

[samagon]

On 11/17/2021 at 11:58 AM, ljchou said:

They're all basically amusement park-like or luxury experiencel. I'm hoping it's not the former.

I don't consider Landry's Seafood to fit in either of those categories, it fits in a 3rd category: bland food.

Saltgrass isn't really a luxury experience.

there's a ton of other restaurants as part of the Landry's experience, I definitely find most of their food 'safe' and by safe, I mean bland.

however, for Landry's to toss anything in the east end is a big win for the area, so many do enjoy and respect the food from the group.

[thedistrict84]

39 minutes ago, samagon said:

I don't consider Landry's Seafood to fit in either of those categories, it fits in a 3rd category: bland food.

Saltgrass isn't really a luxury experience.

there's a ton of other restaurants as part of the Landry's experience, I definitely find most of their food 'safe' and by safe, I mean bland.

however, for Landry's to toss anything in the east end is a big win for the area, so many do enjoy and respect the food from the group.

Why on earth would you consider chain restaurants with a touristy ambiance that serve “bland” food to be “a big win for the area”? The bland people who like bland food that frequent these restaurants almost exclusively live out in the suburbs, and fortunately there are plenty of locations out in those areas for anything in the Fertitta portfolio.

I could maybe see something of a customer base for people coming “into the city” to go to an Astros game or whatever, but if that’s the case why wouldn’t they want to try something new instead of the same bland, basic options they have out in Spring or whatever?

[Andrew Ewert]

On 11/17/2021 at 11:32 AM, Houston19514 said:

Because all Landry's projects are exactly the same?

Downtown Aquarium

Downtown Westin Hotel/Vic & Anthony's

The Post Oak

Kemah Boardwalk

Galveston Pleasure Pier

San Luis Resort 

I didn't say they were all the same. I don't personally think any one of those things is a fit for the East End.

[editor]

7 hours ago, 77011transplant said:

A friend (a fully grown adult woman) LOVES Rainforest Cafe. She says it's her favorite restaurant. So there's at least a market of one for this. 

I'd go.  My wife and I had one of our first dates at a Rainforest Cafe in Minnesota.  Because of that, it has a special place for us, and we go to one in each city we live.

I seem to remember that the one on Galveston was extra special because it had a tunnel of love ride.

[editor]

1 hour ago, thedistrict84 said:

Why on earth would you consider chain restaurants with a touristy ambiance that serve “bland” food to be “a big win for the area”?

Maybe because they draw in other businesses.

If a big  chain sees potential in an area, other companies will follow.  This isn't just a theory, it's how a lot of retail works.  For example, when a new mall scores an Apple Store, other stores will fall all over themselves to get a space there, too.  It's why retail real estate developers sometimes have fake almost-Apple Stores drawn into their renderings.  It brings in interest from others.

Back in my college marketing classes, we learned that one of the diner chains (Denny's, I think) famously did zero location research.  It just built next to Holiday Inns whenever it could.  It piggybacked off of the hotel's research.

[j_cuevas713]

4 minutes ago, editor said:

Maybe because they draw in other businesses.

If a big  chain sees potential in an area, other companies will follow.  This isn't just a theory, it's how a lot of retail works.  For example, when a new mall scores an Apple Store, other stores will fall all over themselves to get a space there, too.  It's why retail real estate developers sometimes have fake almost-Apple Stores drawn into their renderings.  It brings in interest from others.

Back in my college marketing classes, we learned that one of the diner chains (Denny's, I think) famously did zero location research.  It just built next to Holiday Inns whenever it could.  It piggybacked off of the hotel's research.

That's a very fair point. A business that has an established reputation draws people. 

[Urbannizer]

Office building grew in size from the renderings on page 2

https://hsuoffice.com/project/the-mill/

[thedistrict84]

25 minutes ago, editor said:

Maybe because they draw in other businesses.

If a big  chain sees potential in an area, other companies will follow.  This isn't just a theory, it's how a lot of retail works.  For example, when a new mall scores an Apple Store, other stores will fall all over themselves to get a space there, too.  It's why retail real estate developers sometimes have fake almost-Apple Stores drawn into their renderings.  It brings in interest from others.

Back in my college marketing classes, we learned that one of the diner chains (Denny's, I think) famously did zero location research.  It just built next to Holiday Inns whenever it could.  It piggybacked off of the hotel's research.

Oh I understand all that, I’m just not sure the “chain restaurant commonly found on the feeder road of I-45” is the direction that would be best for the East End to go.

Admittedly, I’m probably a bit more invested in what happens with the Olshan property than most because I live two blocks away. A touristy theme restaurant would probably be the worst case scenario in terms of what could go there.

If it’s on the bottom floor of a mixed use development with other retail, that’s perfectly fine. I’m just worried about other inner-loop Landry’s locations like the Saltgrass and Cadillac Bar on Shepherd, and the accompanying acre of parking.

Edited November 18, 2021 by thedistrict84
Clarified.

[West Timer]

Worse than a rusty old lumber yard, sea of warehouses, chemical plant, storage facility, giant parking lot with a CVS in the middle or suburban style strip center? Do you know where you are? I understand why a touristy themed restaurant wouldn't be someone's first choice, but believe me, a Tillman themed anything is not the worst case scenario for that neighborhood. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by West Timer

[j_cuevas713]

So has this officially started?

[I'm Not a Robot]

9 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

So has this officially started?

Looks like some leveling has begun from what I see driving by and the photos in this thread. There were also crews at the future roundabout yesterday when I drove by. Seems like some movement is finally happening at this intersection. 

[sapo2367]

37 minutes ago, I'm Not a Robot said:

Looks like some leveling has begun from what I see driving by and the photos in this thread. There were also crews at the future roundabout yesterday when I drove by. Seems like some movement is finally happening at this intersection. 

Woo!

[DJF]

Large dumping of gravel pack at the East Riv Proj entrance road today - Just past Jensen bridge...let's go.

[ljchou]

1 hour ago, DJF said:

Large dumping of gravel pack at the East Riv Proj entrance road today - Just past Jensen bridge...let's go.

There's a thread for that:

https://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/27030-east-river-kbr-site-puchased-by-midway/page/29/

[wilcal]

Drove by this afternoon and there was a baby-sized bobcat-looking piece of machinery and a few pickups parked out in the field. Sounds like more than surveying. 

[sapo2367]

There was a big ol pile of dirt out there as well. That’s the technical term correct?

[Urbannizer]

Is this a new design for The Mill?

https://www.arch-con.com/divisions/multifamily/the-mill-mixed-use/

[bobruss]

If it is, thats telling because the rendering doesn't have a single Landrys, Rain Forest or Crab Shack in it.

[sapo2367]

15 minutes ago, bobruss said:

If it is, thats telling because the rendering doesn't have a single Landrys, Rain Forest or Crab Shack in it.

FIFY

[ljchou]

36 minutes ago, bobruss said:

If it is, thats telling because the rendering doesn't have a single Landrys, Rain Forest or Crab Shack in it.

Can you explain this? I feel like it's a joke but it went over my head.

[sapo2367]

1 hour ago, ljchou said:

Can you explain this? I feel like it's a joke but it went over my head.

Its referring to the rumor that Landrys was buying the olshan property -- which isnt this rendering but the whole discussion was on this thread.

[bobruss]

10 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

Is this a new design for The Mill?

https://www.arch-con.com/divisions/multifamily/the-mill-mixed-use/

I was suggesting that since the rendering that I was relating too above, had no signage from any Landrys or Fertitta owned establishment, it was possibly a sign that they weren't the intended developer. Often in renderings they put the names of proposed establishments in the render. Sapo added the doctored rendering below my quote and added Rainforest and Downtown Aquarium as a joke. I hope that clarifies my intent.

2 hours ago, ljchou said:

Can you explain this? I feel like it's a joke but it went over my head.

 

[j_cuevas713]

Man I’m loving this style for our city. It fits us well. 

[I'm Not a Robot]

On 1/27/2022 at 12:38 AM, Urbannizer said:

Is this a new design for The Mill?

https://www.arch-con.com/divisions/multifamily/the-mill-mixed-use/

 

I think this must be a different development because it looks almost nothing like the other design and nothing like the other photos on the same link couple this with nothing on the Mill's website indicating the design changed, especially considering that there is a 3D tour available elsewhere that maintains the other design. https://canvas360tours.com/TheMill/canvas/

 

I personally prefer the design more consistently shown, but I guess we should see soon considering this thing is supposed to be built by October. 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by I'm Not a Robot

[Luminare]

22 minutes ago, I'm Not a Robot said:

 

I think this must be a different development because it looks almost nothing like the other design and nothing like the other photos on the same link couple this with nothing on the Mill's website indicating the design changed, especially considering that there is a 3D tour available elsewhere that maintains the other design. https://canvas360tours.com/TheMill/canvas/

 

I personally prefer the design more consistently shown, but I guess we should see soon considering this thing is supposed to be built by October. 

 

 

Some firms and contractors will continue to show earlier illustrations because it shows the evolution of the project. I'm working on a project right now where we showed one thing at a meeting and now will have to make some adjustments for the next one. Meaning I'll be producing new renders, new site plan, and a new animation. Designs change all the time and more often then people might guess. Honestly, the image shown above isn't that different. I'd imagine that was a phase of the design where they were exploring the cost benefits of placing more residential on site than office/retail. This happens all the time. I know there is usually a kneejerk reaction with each release on here of new or different renderings, but most of the time there is no context of when this was released by the firm or presented. Either way both designs are good. Both will be a massive improvement for the area. Considering what has been exhibited lately and even what is shown on Arch Con's website what we have been seeing lately is latest and greatest.

[j_cuevas713]

1 hour ago, Luminare said:

Some firms and contractors will continue to show earlier illustrations because it shows the evolution of the project. I'm working on a project right now where we showed one thing at a meeting and now will have to make some adjustments for the next one. Meaning I'll be producing new renders, new site plan, and a new animation. Designs change all the time and more often then people might guess. Honestly, the image shown above isn't that different. I'd imagine that was a phase of the design where they were exploring the cost benefits of placing more residential on site than office/retail. This happens all the time. I know there is usually a kneejerk reaction with each release on here of new or different renderings, but most of the time there is no context of when this was released by the firm or presented. Either way both designs are good. Both will be a massive improvement for the area. Considering what has been exhibited lately and even what is shown on Arch Con's website what we have been seeing lately is latest and greatest.

Yeah I agree. This thing is def going through revisions before we see a final design. Hopefully they are in the final round of changes. 

[sapo2367]

Yeah on Arch Con's website both of these are shown in the same slideshow, obviously one of these is an outdated version.

https://www.arch-con.com/divisions/multifamily/the-mill-mixed-use/

 

Design 1

Design 2

[hindesky]

2 Demo permits for the two remaining buildings on Canal.