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7 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I wish/hope that any rebuild of Montrose south of Westheimer would include putting the boulevard back in.

There was a boulevard there back then?

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12 hours ago, dbigtex56 said:

There are many historic photographs showing the esplanade on Montrose Blvd. 
Here's one. 

if the statue of Sam Houston is in the same place in that photo as it is now, the position of this photo is right on top of the Mecom fountain, and any esplanade that was there in that photo is still there.

 

edit, reviewing historic aerials it is pretty clear that there has never been a median, or esplanade on Montrose once you are south of Westheimer. the 1964 overhead seems to be the most clear photos of the street, and it appears to be 2 southbound lanes, a double yellow, then 2 northbound lanes.

Edited by samagon
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47 minutes ago, samagon said:

if the statue of Sam Houston is in the same place in that photo as it is now, the position of this photo is right on top of the Mecom fountain, and any esplanade that was there in that photo is still there.

 

edit, reviewing historic aerials it is pretty clear that there has never been a median, or esplanade on Montrose once you are south of Westheimer. the 1964 overhead seems to be the most clear photos of the street, and it appears to be 2 southbound lanes, a double yellow, then 2 northbound lanes.

In the photo, the Mecom Fountain does not yet exist.  The photo shows the "sunken garden" (which was at the location of the Fountain) right by the Hotel (now ZaZa), the tall building in the photo.  The photo shows us that the esplanade went from the site of the fountain to a block north of Binz. There is currently no esplanade north of the fountain.  

Apparently the esplanades were gone by 1964. Nevertheless, they were formerly there. Go to 1944 view in Google Earth and you can see them, all the way north to Westheimer.

Edited by Houston19514
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22 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

In the photo, the Mecom Fountain does not yet exist.  The photo shows the "sunken garden" (which was at the location of the Fountain) right by the Hotel (now ZaZa), the tall building in the photo.  The photo shows us that the esplanade went from the site of the fountain to a block north of Binz. There is currently no esplanade north of the fountain.  

Apparently the esplanades were gone by 1964. Nevertheless, they were formerly there. Go to 1944 view in Google Earth and you can see them, all the way north to Westheimer.

that's some neat historic knowledge if Montrose had a median all the way from Westheimer to south of Binz.

it certainly gives contextual understanding as to why it was labeled a 'boulevard' other than just some aesthetic name with no meaning.

is going back to a median the best use though? I'd submit that adding a protected bike lane, or providing wider sidewalks using the space that a median would consume would be a higher use. having a bike lane connecting BBP to Herman park (and the museum district in general) could be huge.

Edited by samagon
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1 hour ago, samagon said:

that's some neat historic knowledge if Montrose had a median all the way from Westheimer to south of Binz.

it certainly gives contextual understanding as to why it was labeled a 'boulevard' other than just some aesthetic name with no meaning.

is going back to a median the best use though? I'd submit that adding a protected bike lane, or providing wider sidewalks using the space that a median would consume would be a higher use. having a bike lane connecting BBP to Herman park (and the museum district in general) could be huge.

Bike lanes would be nice, but I think the boulevard/esplanade is more important.  Montrose should be one of our signature boulevards for its entire length, with a beautiful landscaped boulevard, wide sidewalks, and easy/frequent pedestrian crossings.  It would be cool to have both the boulevard AND bike lanes but I'm not sure there's room for all that.  So, bike lanes can go on other nearby streets (and I believe that is the plan).

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Montrose Boulevard has bike lanes in the bike plan. 

I have to disagree that reinstating the median south of Westheimer would be better than bike lanes. I'd rather see the space used to widen the sidewalks, retain the existing trees at all costs, and add protected bike lanes. Preferably elevated like Bagby. 

What's valuable about the median north of Westheimer is its old growth live oaks. Not the median itself. 

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11 minutes ago, Texasota said:

Montrose Boulevard has bike lanes in the bike plan. 

I have to disagree that reinstating the median south of Westheimer would be better than bike lanes. I'd rather see the space used to widen the sidewalks, retain the existing trees at all costs, and add protected bike lanes. Preferably elevated like Bagby. 

What's valuable about the median north of Westheimer is its old growth live oaks. Not the median itself. 

Isn't this the city's bike plan map?  https://mycity.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=c59bb1a39ba14202817e11ce7420ad31

I don't see any bike lanes planned on Montrose Blvd.

As I said, the boulevard should be beautifully landscaped.  Let's replace it now so the city can enjoy "old-growth" live oaks in the boulevard in future decades. Not only would it be beautiful, it would make it all instantly more pedestrian friendly.

Edited by Houston19514
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You need to check "Proposed High Comfort Bike Lanes". It's on there.

I'm not that big a fan of unusable medians. Something like Heights Boulevard, with a trail and little parks? Sure. Or a train? Great. Maybe even the bike lanes? Maybe, but that can create its own issues.

I'd rather see the existing pedestrian infrastructure on the sides of the street bulked up than a new median built. A median would be somewhat more pedestrian friendly than the current setup, but I don't think it would be the best option.

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20 minutes ago, Texasota said:

You need to check "Proposed High Comfort Bike Lanes". It's on there.

I'm not that big a fan of unusable medians. Something like Heights Boulevard, with a trail and little parks? Sure. Or a train? Great. Maybe even the bike lanes? Maybe, but that can create its own issues.

I'd rather see the existing pedestrian infrastructure on the sides of the street bulked up than a new median built. A median would be somewhat more pedestrian friendly than the current setup, but I don't think it would be the best option.

There is no High Comfort Bike Lane shown on Montrose in the linked map. I don't know where you are seeing a plan for high comfort bike lanes (or any bike lanes) on Montrose Blvd.  (There are high comfort lanes mapped for Yoakum Blvd/Waugh Drive/Commonwealth; perhaps that's what you are thinking of.) Interestingly, the Montrose Potential Projects List that spurred this conversation includes a listing of Walk/Bike Projects:  

  • Waugh, Commonwealth Dr & Yoakum
  • Hawthorne Neighborhood Street
  • Woodhead Neighborhood Street
  • West Dallas Street
  • Welch Street
  • Stanford Neighborhood Street
  • Mandell Street

Nothing on Montrose.

Not to belabor this too much, but I think it's important to point out that a boulevard can provide value and serve purposes without being "used" in the sense you are asking for.  They would increase pedestrian safety/comfort, provide traffic calming, increase beauty, create cleaner/cooler air, etc.

Edited by Houston19514
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I don't know what to tell you dude. It's on the map.

Look at the Layers key on the right side. These are the layers, some of which are turned on. The others need to be checked for you to see them:

  • BCycle Stations: Turned off by default
  • Existing High Comfort Bikeways: Turned on
  • Programmed High Comfort Bikeways: Turned on. This is everything already has funding and is programmed to start construction soon.
  • Existing Low Comfort Bikeways: stuff that exists but doesnt meet the Bike Plan's minimum standards
  • Proposed High Comfort Bikeways: Turned off by default. This is everything that's in the Bike Plan but does not yet have dedicated funding. Which is to say, most of the Bike Plan. This includes Montrose Boulevard.
  • Key Connections: Turned off by default

And again, I agree that restoring the median would be better than what's there now. I just don't think it's worth it if it sacrifices protected bike lanes.

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15 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

There is no High Comfort Bike Lane shown on Montrose in the linked map. I don't know where you are seeing a plan for high comfort bike lanes (or any bike lanes) on Montrose Blvd.  (There are high comfort lanes mapped for Yoakum Blvd/Waugh Drive/Commonwealth; perhaps that's what you are thinking of.) Interestingly, the Montrose Potential Projects List that spurred this conversation includes a listing of Walk/Bike Projects:  

  • Waugh, Commonwealth Dr & Yoakum
  • Hawthorne Neighborhood Street
  • Woodhead Neighborhood Street
  • West Dallas Street
  • Welch Street
  • Stanford Neighborhood Street
  • Mandell Street

Nothing on Montrose.

Not to belabor this too much, but I think it's important to point out that a boulevard can provide value and serve purposes without being "used" in the sense you are asking for.  They would increase pedestrian safety/comfort, provide traffic calming, increase beauty, create cleaner/cooler air, etc.

it's there:

SAwExwy.jpg

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On 3/2/2021 at 10:48 AM, samagon said:
On 3/1/2021 at 12:47 PM, Houston19514 said:

 

that's some neat historic knowledge if Montrose had a median all the way from Westheimer to south of Binz.

I was told by people who lived in Montrose in the 50's that the esplanades were planted with palm trees which attracted an infestation of tree rats.
The neighbors were not amused. They offered little resistance when the median was removed and the boulevard converted to a more heavily trafficked street.

Edited by dbigtex56
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I agree with Texasota that a boulevard median is only really an advantage when it is wide enough that you can put trails or something in it. That is how many of the old boulevards in Chicago are, like Garfield Boulevard. Lots of suburban roads in Houston have medians but they don't really do much other than prevent U-turns and widen the overall street. The boulevards in Paris do not have medians and those are your textbook boulevards. They have ultra-wide sidewalks, 20 to 30 feet wide, lined with trees and with ample space between the trees and the buildings.

If you can make Montrose Blvd look like Main Street next to Hermann Park, I would say that you have earned the title of "boulevard." Put in some 20' wide sidewalks and this is starting to look urbane.

Camille_Pissarro_-_Boulevard_Montmartre,

Edited by H-Town Man
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On 3/5/2021 at 10:12 AM, H-Town Man said:

I agree with Texasota that a boulevard median is only really an advantage when it is wide enough that you can put trails or something in it. That is how many of the old boulevards in Chicago are, like Garfield Boulevard. Lots of suburban roads in Houston have medians but they don't really do much other than prevent U-turns and widen the overall street. The boulevards in Paris do not have medians and those are your textbook boulevards. They have ultra-wide sidewalks, 20 to 30 feet wide, lined with trees and with ample space between the trees and the buildings.

If you can make Montrose Blvd look like Main Street next to Hermann Park, I would say that you have earned the title of "boulevard." Put in some 20' wide sidewalks and this is starting to look urbane.

Camille_Pissarro_-_Boulevard_Montmartre,

tree lined sidewalks with no median is really the best solution to maximize space, and create some beauty. here's a famous avenue with tree lined sidewalks.

xURgsIw.jpeg

 

it's called the Champ Elysees, or some other exceedingly French type name with accents on half the letters.

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2 hours ago, samagon said:

tree lined sidewalks with no median is really the best solution to maximize space, and create some beauty. here's a famous avenue with tree lined sidewalks.

xURgsIw.jpeg

 

it's called the Champ Elysees, or some other exceedingly French type name with accents on half the letters.

We could take some ideas from Paris' plan for a huge makeover of Champs-Élysées.  I can live without a boulevard, but at least give me pedestrian islands at all crosswalks (and a lot more crosswalks).  ;-)

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On 3/9/2021 at 6:14 PM, gmac said:

Especially if there are Germans marching down the boulevard under said trees.

I mean, if they are the racist, anti-Semite, and call themselves a reich, I agree, that's a no go on the Germans.

however, if they have beer and pastries, then we might need to negotiate terms.

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22 minutes ago, samagon said:

I mean, if they are the racist, anti-Semite, and call themselves a reich, I agree, that's a no go on the Germans.

however, if they have beer and pastries, then we might need to negotiate terms.

We're in agreement then that Montrose needs to look like this...

oktoberfest-street-festival.jpg

 

Wish they'd bring back the Cafe Bustelo pop-up while they're at it.

rawImage.jpg

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1 hour ago, samagon said:

I mean, if they are the racist, anti-Semite, and call themselves a reich, I agree, that's a no go on the Germans.

however, if they have beer and pastries, then we might need to negotiate terms.

Pretzels. They need to have pretzels!

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15 hours ago, gmac said:

Pretzels. They need to have pretzels!

I could use a good soft pretzel - my smoke detector can attest that it's hard to make at home

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