Old Sacred Heart Building At 1111 Pierce St.

[j_cuevas713]

Saw fencing around part of the building. Is this being demolished? 😢

[Avossos]

demolition. Everyone say their goodbyes.

[j_cuevas713]

7 minutes ago, Avossos said:

demolition. Everyone say their goodbyes.

Is this for sure? 

[dbigtex56]

IIRC, that's been the plan ever since announcement of the construction of the Co-Cathedral was made. 
I'm surprised it's taken this long.
Usually I'm a proponent of preserving old or historic buildings, but in this case, how likely is it that it would it be adapted to another use (food hall, nightclub, Half-Price Books....)?
And I'd call the architecture unremarkable. 
Sorry to see it go, but not shedding tears over this one.

Edited February 26, 2021 by dbigtex56

[j_cuevas713]

On 2/25/2021 at 6:31 PM, dbigtex56 said:

IIRC, that's been the plan ever since announcement of the construction of the Co-Cathedral was made. 
I'm surprised it's taken this long.
Usually I'm a proponent of preserving old or historic buildings, but in this case, how likely is it that it would it be adapted to another use (food hall, nightclub, Half-Price Books....)?
And I'd call the architecture unremarkable. 
Sorry to see it go, but not shedding tears over this one.

It's not so much the architecture but more the history of the building itself. But the architecture is still pretty damn nice. It was named one of the top 13 most endangered buildings in Texas a few years back. The only thing that halted demolition the first time around was public outcry. So it was used as additional space for the church. I'm not saying it's being demolished. I just noticed a fence at the front of the property. It could have been to keep people away during the freeze. I plan on going back to the site soon. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by j_cuevas713

[Texasota]

This is one of those instances where what replaces it will really matter. And I don't have much confidence in that...

[j_cuevas713]

On 2/27/2021 at 8:02 AM, Texasota said:

This is one of those instances where what replaces it will really matter. And I don't have much confidence in that...

Well the church was going to make it a parking lot 😢

[staresatmaps]

I hope they at least make use of the statues and very nice stonework.

[Specwriter]

It would be nice if the Church would incorporate some of the elements into a plaza in front of the present Co-Cathedral. IIRC The Rite of Acceptance into the Order of Catechumens traditionally took place outside the nave (sanctuary) so it would be appropriate to have an outdoor space for this purpose.

What about the stained glass windows? I have seen other churches donate those to another, occasionally even one of a different denomination.

In Europe, and maybe Central and South America too, it is not unusual to have a parish church next to the Cathedral. Maintaining two structures obviously costs money but it also makes sense to have weekday Mass in a smaller structure since attendance is almost always less.

[hindesky]

Fence

[j_cuevas713]

On 3/3/2021 at 7:00 PM, hindesky said:

Fence

A part of me thinks it’s to keep the homeless out. The rest of the building is fenced in. 

[H-Town Man]

I think what will hurt most about losing this building is not simply its mere age, as though any building of a certain age is automatically great, but that it has a romantic, old world quality which downtown Houston really needs, and now one more piece of it is gone. I am not one of the people who bashed the new cathedral when it was built; I think it's great in a lot of ways, and the interior is impressive. But the exterior, especially the front, is simply harsh. Couldn't they have done an arch instead of a rectangle? It calls to mind the aesthetics of suburban McMansions with huge proportions, few details, and big screen tv's. It really looks like a Jared store, which has this same aesthetic. I think Ziegler tried hard to do make something that recalled the basilicas of Italy - I remember reading that he and his firm traveled there for inspiration - but the architectural influences of contemporary Houston were just a little overpowering.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by H-Town Man

[j_cuevas713]

Yes but is that fence really to prepare it for demolition? That’s what I keep asking. It seems like it’s just there to prevent vagrants from destroying the property. The front of the church is the only area with fencing. 

[texan]

The Archdiocese is adding a plaza aaaaaand… (get ready for it) surface parking

🥲
https://files.ecatholic.com/2114/documents/2023/2/WhitePaper_AFP_022223.pdf?t=1677278550000

Edited March 14 by texan

[Purdueenginerd]

• 4/9/20 – Discovery of trespassers living in the rectory. Windows on second floor broken. In addition, break-in through stained glass window of church.
• 4/15/20 – Copper gutters and flashings stolen.

• 4/23/20 – Second floor window of school broken out.

• 4/24/20 – Air conditioning copper lines stolen; visible evidence of campfires burning along front wall of rectory.

• 4/28/20 – Trespasser arrested inside rectory.

• 1/28/21 – Interior patio door of rectory broken; basement garage raided for copper pipes, tubing, and wiring. Basement flooded.

•12/6/21 – Pierce Street door and multiple windows found broken and used to gain entry. Electric wiring in old school was stolen.

• 12/22/21 – Trespassers removed an 18-foot ladder from the rectory basement and used it to climb the school roof to access the wiring.

• 1/31/22 – A 2-alarm fire at parish office and rectory. Extensive damage, holes in roof and windows, fire crews find the premises to be unsafe.

• 2/1/22 – Break-in at the rectory through glass and sawing throughplywood that was supplied by an outside contractor after the fire.

 

Looking at the case history, thats a lot of break-ins over 2 years. Its a huge bummer they went with surface parking lot. -- street parking downtown is free on sunday's anyway. Huge bummer. 

[j_cuevas713]

I knew this was coming at some point. What a disappointment for the area. A tiny little plaza and big ass parking lot. 90 percent of south Downtown is already parking. This along with the old Incarnate Word building are two pieces that will be missed. 

Edited March 14 by j_cuevas713

[steve1363]

“The Co-Cathedral of the Sacred Heart, like many urban cathedrals, towers over the downtown landscape and draws the eye in as a visual symbol of the heart and vibrancy of the Catholic faith in southeast Texas. The impressive scale of the 28,000 square foot building seems at home among the other dominant structures that together form the skyline of the fourth largest city in America, a recently (in 2004) elevated Archdiocese, and the energy capital of the world. This new structure readily took its place among major “destination” cathedrals in the United States upon its consecration on April 2, 2008 – the same day it officially replaced the old Sacred Heart church as Co-Cathedral…

In the end, the new Co-Cathedral of the Sacred Heart cost $49 million, seats 1,820, and – perhaps most importantly – was designed and constructed to be able to serve the Archdiocese for 500 years. Its traditional, Romanesque architecture differed from the contemporary approach of several other U.S. cathedrals built during the same timeframe, includ- ing Our Lady of the Angels in Los Angeles and the Cathedral of Christ the Light in Oakland.“

[Houston19514]

Disappointing for sure.  I hope that landscape design was donated... if so, they got what they paid for.

Edited March 15 by Houston19514

[Amlaham]

[phillip_white]

If anyone adds my name to a "plaza" at the intersection of two arterial streets next to a massive parking lot, I will aggressively haunt that location for eternity.

I truly don't know what this guy did to deserve this, but it must have been really bad.

[Avossos]

So they will tear down the old church for a parking lot?

[steve1363]

I'm guessing none of you HAIFers are members (or attendees) of Sacred Heart!  🤣

[Ross]

7 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I'm guessing none of you HAIFers are members (or attendees) of Sacred Heart!  🤣

My wife and kid go there. I recall hearing about the old building being slated for demolition before the new building opened, along with a history lesson on how Italian immigrants to Houston did the finish work inside. The Catholic Church doesn't care what anyone else thinks, it will do what it wants and never look back.

[Naviguessor]

Spot On.  Catholic Church continues it's sins.   RIP Nicholas Clayton INW original.  

 

[j_cuevas713]

4 hours ago, Naviguessor said:

Spot On.  Catholic Church continues it's sins.   RIP Nicholas Clayton INW original.  

 

This one still haunts me. My girlfriend went here and said the interior was beautiful. It amazes me that the church will spend all this money to build something new but fail to repair and maintain what it already has. 

Edited March 16 by j_cuevas713

[Naviguessor]

And what the sisters replaced it with is an homage to the architectural contributions of Public Storage. 

[j_cuevas713]

58 minutes ago, Naviguessor said:

And what the sisters replaced it with is an homage to the architectural contributions of Public Storage. 

Even that drop off area is a nightmare

[Dewey]

On 3/15/2023 at 11:03 PM, steve1363 said:

I'm guessing none of you HAIFers are members (or attendees) of Sacred Heart!  🤣

I go to Mass there regularly enough. One thing I’ve never had an issue with: parking. (One thing I do have issue with: Fr. Jason’s 20-25 minute homilies and mass lasting 90 minutes). Even for a very packed, high profile, weeknight funeral, parking was easy downtown. This tear down is just to get the liability of the building burning down from squatters off their insurance. The plaza idea part is alright and traditional, but the need for it to be majority parking is insane. 
 

This idea fired me up so much I finally registered an HAIF account after years of reading/lurking.

[HouTXRanger]

I'm really proud of what Houston has done over the past decade or two, but this is a stain on the transformation of Downtown. It's honestly pathetic. If they can transform a freaking post office into a mall and it works great, y'all really don't think they could do something amazing with this site? All for a goddamn parking lot. Two blocks from the Downtown Transit Center! Outstanding. Even better when the pierce elevated comes down, and more prime real estate is eaten up by a surface lot.

[Ross]

5 hours ago, HouTXRanger said:

I'm really proud of what Houston has done over the past decade or two, but this is a stain on the transformation of Downtown. It's honestly pathetic. If they can transform a freaking post office into a mall and it works great, y'all really don't think they could do something amazing with this site? All for a goddamn parking lot. Two blocks from the Downtown Transit Center! Outstanding. Even better when the pierce elevated comes down, and more prime real estate is eaten up by a surface lot.

Their property, their choice. If it bothers you that much, make an offer for the property and develop it as you wish. You will fail, because the Catholic Church doesn't care at all what you think.

[004n063]

15 minutes ago, Ross said:

Their property, their choice. If it bothers you that much, make an offer for the property and develop it as you wish. You will fail, because the Catholic Church doesn't care at all what you think.

I mean...isn't ineffectually opining on the development of properties we don't own pretty much the whole point of HAIF? 

We all know that there's nothing we can do about this abomination, but why should that stop us from calling it out as such?

[Ross]

3 hours ago, 004n063 said:

I mean...isn't ineffectually opining on the development of properties we don't own pretty much the whole point of HAIF? 

We all know that there's nothing we can do about this abomination, but why should that stop us from calling it out as such?

Lots of discussion like that, and I occasionally just become a grumpy old man and point out that sometimes there's nothing you can do if you do not own the property. And the Catholic church is less worried about what anyone thinks than most developers.

[editor]

On 3/15/2023 at 11:03 PM, steve1363 said:

I'm guessing none of you HAIFers are members (or attendees) of Sacred Heart!  🤣

I am.

It was announced at mass on Saturday that demolition is imminent, with asbestos abatement starting this week.  The verbal announcement was mostly about contingency plans for parking, since the existing surface parking lot across the street will become a staging area for the entire project, and will become less and less available for parking over time.  Amegy Bank is helping out with that, my guess is because its parking garage is empty on weekends.

The parish is talking up the plaza, and downplaying the parking, even though parking is clearly the vast majority of what's being built.

There was also a note about it in the bulletin yesterday:

Quote

March 19, 2023

Archbishop Joseph Fiorenza Plaza Project Update

Dear Friends in Christ:
Anh chị em thân mến trong Chúa Kitô:
Estimados Amigos y Amigas en Cristo:

On the weekend of February 25-26, the First Sunday of Lent, I announced the plans for the construction of the Archbishop Joseph Fiorenza Plaza. Following the death of Archbishop Fiorenza this fall, I have been in discussion with Cardinal DiNardo and Archdi- ocesan leadership about bringing to fulfillment the late Archbish- op’s master plans for the Co-Cathedral of the Sacred Heart.

The first phase of this project begins with the demolition of the old Sacred Heart church, which will begin shortly. You will start to see equipment this week as asbestos abatement begins in anticipa- tion of the actual demolition. We are proceeding with an aggres- sive project plan in hopes that the entire project might (and for anyone who has been involved in construction projects, “might” is the key word) be completed by Christmas.
This will be part of a greater campaign that will be shared with parish and Archdiocese by summer, but even as plans are designed and funding raised, the demolition of the church must prepare the way. This is being accomplished by means of a substantial grant from the Archdiocese to help us get started.

During this time of construction, there will be short term disrup- tion of parking. Following Easter, the primary parking lot across the street from the Co-Cathedral will range from partially to com- pletely unavailable. In addition to street parking and parking in the Cathedral Centre lot, we are making arrangements to have the Chancery lot (immediately behind the Co-Cathedral) available even during weekdays as it is throughout the Lenten season each year. Additionally, Amegy Bank is cooperating with us in making their parking garage more available during weekends and key weeknights. Please be patient with us as we squeeze for a little while in order to expand and increase capacity.

Many have also inquired about bricks and other sentimental keep- sakes from the old church as well as special opportunities to do- nate—details about these matters will be shared at a future date, but for now I will simply say that there will indeed be opportuni- ties for all of these things. We want to enshrine the memory and story of our past while paving the way towards a bright future.

For information about the Archbishop Joseph Fiorenza Plaza pro- ject, visit www.sacredhearthouston.org/plaza.

O Sacred Heart of Jesus, we place all our trust in you! Amen!

Yours in Christ,

Very Rev. Jeffrey L Bame Pastor & Rector

 

[j_cuevas713]

On 3/17/2023 at 5:39 PM, Ross said:

Their property, their choice. If it bothers you that much, make an offer for the property and develop it as you wish. You will fail, because the Catholic Church doesn't care at all what you think.

Well I think that's the point Ross. I agree with the whole idea that it's your property you can do whatever you want with it, but to not consider the neighborhood one bit is extremely nearsighted. 

[steve1363]

I’m not an architect but isn’t the purpose of architecture to be functional?  Why is a surface parking lot an abomination if it meets the needs of the church patrons?  Don’t tell me you want my 80-year old parents (members of Sacred Heart) to ride their bikes to mass or walk a mile from a transit stop?  I much prefer a surface parking lot across the street from the church than a dark dingy parking garage.

A parking lot can be surrounded by a nice fence or green hedges.  The church can make it look nice.  The church has nice flower beds if I remember correctly.  Give them a chance.

[HouTXRanger]

On 3/17/2023 at 3:39 PM, Ross said:

Their property, their choice. If it bothers you that much, make an offer for the property and develop it as you wish. You will fail, because the Catholic Church doesn't care at all what you think.

Of course, how could I forget! Unless you own the land, you get zero right to opine on how your neighborhood changes for the worse. Someone should tell all those people protesting NHIP . . .

Also, if I really cared what the landowners thought, I wouldn't waste my time commenting here, would I? I doubt any landowners of any projects we discuss even know we exist.
 

54 minutes ago, steve1363 said:

I’m not an architect but isn’t the purpose of architecture to be functional?  Why is a surface parking lot an abomination if it meets the needs of the church patrons?  Don’t tell me you want my 80-year old parents (members of Sacred Heart) to ride their bikes to mass or walk a mile from a transit stop?  I much prefer a surface parking lot across the street from the church than a dark dingy parking garage.

A parking lot can be surrounded by a nice fence or green hedges.  The church can make it look nice.  The church has nice flower beds if I remember correctly.  Give them a chance.

Calling a parking lot "architecture" is a stretch. Calling storage for unoccupied cars "functional" is less of a stretch, in the same way an empty dirt lot is functional because it's non-permeable and absorbs water when it rains. Looking at google earth, in the eight blocks surrounding the church, there are three multi-level parking garages and four surface lots, one of which is already owned and used by the church.

Nobody is saying your grandparents should take transit or bike. There is a drop-off area for people of any physical ability. There is already a parking lot owned by the church for them to use, and the building is surrounded by even more parking lots and street parking. Demolishing the old building doesn't make anything easier for your parents. In fact, it might make things more difficult by inducing the demand for parking when more people start driving there and expecting an easy parking spot.

Why are the only two possible uses for you a parking lot or parking garage? This is in downtown Houston, within walking distance of hundreds of apartments, tons of workplaces, and the downtown transit center. Why can't this be used as a church facility again? Or as a school? Or as, god forbid, housing?

The church is demolishing this because they can't be arsed to take care of their property and want to wash their hands of a potential asset for short term gains. It's not about parking. Or about the plaza. It's about doing the bare minimum by lazy management, and pretty much everyone will be worse off for it.

[004n063]

Forgive my ignorance, but aren't churches generally neighborhood things? I always assumed they were meant to be village centers, so to speak. Do a lot of people go a long way to go to church?

[Ross]

34 minutes ago, 004n063 said:

Forgive my ignorance, but aren't churches generally neighborhood things? I always assumed they were meant to be village centers, so to speak. Do a lot of people go a long way to go to church?

Sacred Heart is the Co-Cathedral for the Houston-Galveston Arch Diocese, ie one of the two main Catholic churches for a 10 county area of Southeast Texas. There's a map on this page showing the boundaries https://cabrinihouston.org/archdiocese-of-galvestonhouston

It's a major church for Catholics.

[staresatmaps]

A cathedral is basically a headquarters church for the area. But even a normal church here, 98% of people are driving. Churches as a village center haven't been a thing here since the 1800s when everybody went to church and neighborhoods were segregated by religion.

[hindesky]

https://www.sacredhearthouston.org/plaza

"Although demolition just began, the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston had been intending to demolish the facility for more than two decades. Plans to raze it to make way for a parking lot and a plaza were announced in 2001.

The sanctuary was replaced in 2008 when a new church was consecrated across St. Joseph Parkway to keep pace with its growing congregation, according to information posted on the church website.

The old church, which was designated as a co-cathedral when Houston was elevated as part of the then-Diocese of Galveston-Houston in the late 1950s, last had been renovated in 1990.

But the dilapidated building had become a hotspot for crime in recent years, according to the church."

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/article/sacred-heart-demolition-houston-church-17919936.php

[hindesky]

Crew is removing the roof tiles in preparation of demo.

[hindesky]

Grant MacKay got the contract to take it down. They have an excavator with a long reach boom on it. Salvaging some statues and other parts of the building.

https://www.grantmackaydemolition.com

[hindesky]

[Texasota]

I thought my opinion of the archdiocese was already as low as it could get. I can't completely believe they're doing this.

[j_cuevas713]

6 hours ago, Texasota said:

I thought my opinion of the archdiocese was already as low as it could get. I can't completely believe they're doing this.

When they demolished the original Incarnate Word building I was devastated

[editor]

9 hours ago, Texasota said:

I thought my opinion of the archdiocese was already as low as it could get. I can't completely believe they're doing this.

I wouldn't mind if it was for a homeless shelter, or a soup kitchen, or a school, or even a park.  But for a parking lot?  Terrible.

Maybe five or ten years from now, or whenever the Pierce Elevated goes away, that parking lot will sprout a residential skyscraper. 

In Chicago, at least three churches (Old Saint Pat's, Annunciation, Holy Name Cathedral) sold their parking lots to developers.  In exchange, the churches got several floors of dedicated parking, and a smattering of meeting space.

[texan]

9 minutes ago, editor said:

I wouldn't mind if it was for a homeless shelter, or a soup kitchen, or a school, or even a park.  But for a parking lot?  Terrible.

Maybe five or ten years from now, or whenever the Pierce Elevated goes away, that parking lot will sprout a residential skyscraper. 

In Chicago, at least three churches (Old Saint Pat's, Annunciation, Holy Name Cathedral) sold their parking lots to developers.  In exchange, the churches got several floors of dedicated parking, and a smattering of meeting space.

St. Austin's in Austin did the same thing and, in addition to new parking, they got a new school building, rectory, and gym out of it. St. Mary's in College Station has a similar long-term plan in place.

https://staustin.org/our-property-development-journey

[bookey23]

17 hours ago, editor said:

In Chicago, at least three churches (Old Saint Pat's, Annunciation, Holy Name Cathedral) sold their parking lots to developers.  In exchange, the churches got several floors of dedicated parking, and a smattering of meeting space.

This is what Incarnate Word Academy has done with Crane. Crane is building a big parking garage for the new Astros Village, but is reserving a certain number of spaces for IWA

[Houston19514]

18 hours ago, editor said:

I wouldn't mind if it was for a homeless shelter, or a soup kitchen, or a school, or even a park.  But for a parking lot?  Terrible.

Maybe five or ten years from now, or whenever the Pierce Elevated goes away, that parking lot will sprout a residential skyscraper. 

In Chicago, at least three churches (Old Saint Pat's, Annunciation, Holy Name Cathedral) sold their parking lots to developers.  In exchange, the churches got several floors of dedicated parking, and a smattering of meeting space.

 

1 hour ago, bookey23 said:

This is what Incarnate Word Academy has done with Crane. Crane is building a big parking garage for the new Astros Village, but is reserving a certain number of spaces for IWA

 

And the Museum of Fine Arts, Houston did the same with First Presbyterian.

[cityliving]