Uptown Dallas Density

[Montrose1100 3273]

Our Downtown is well, y'all know that we have the tallest tower outside L.A. (thanks to their flagpole or whatever) and Houston will continue to build with "taller" is better.

I hope we build with "quality" is better... Anyways, I hope you know the Library Tower in LA is 1,018ft., and its not because of any flagpole. The Skyscraper has a crown, and flat rooftop (heli-pad). Your maybe thinking of the Bank of America Plaza in Atlanta (1,023 ft), which has a 90ft. spire above the glass pyramid.

[houstonfella 83]

The article you posted is a summary of the METROPLEX office market. The questions raised in this thread concerned the Dallas CBD, and whether Uptown construction would negatively affect it. As such, a market summary that includes Fort Worth, Irving, and the northern suburbs adds nothing to the dialogue.

As for TexasStar's question why one would care if Dallas CBD's older buildings are vacated for new digs, anyone who actually cares if their CBD is alive and well would be concerned, as well as those of us who actually enjoy debating the effects of new development on the existing landscape. Those who prefer to merely drive down I-30 and admire the pretty buildings, oblivious to whether anyone actually WORKS in them, well, they might not be concerned with these questions.

I think you are right, Red. Here is a blurb from an article from Houston Chronicle on Atlanta's vacancy woes:

Atlanta is grappling with its biggest commercial real estate slump in 10 years, according to broker Cushman & Wakefield. The downtown area had a vacancy rate of 29 percent in the second quarter, the nation's highest. In the third quarter, the number improved to 27.2 percent. Only Dallas was worse off, with 28.1 percent vacancy.

Houston's downtown office vacancy rate is 15.7 percent, according to third-quarter figures from CB Richard Ellis. [This does not include the mega leasing that we are experiencing in the 4th quarter. So Houston should be down around 12% at least by the end of the year for CBD.]

Atlanta CBD

Edited October 27, 2006 by houstonfella

[TxDave 21]

The perpetually high office vacancy rate in the Dallas CBD does seem to indicate poor health for the area, but only if its purpose is strictly as a business center.

Given, the amount of activity in the area; including office to loft conversion, new boutique hotels/retail spaces, and new office/condo construction; I think you can safely define the area as more than simply an "office market". It is quickly becoming a more dynamic mixed use neighborhood.

The office vacancy rate problem does need to be resolved, but unless you are considering purchasing commercial office property, it is myopic to use this one statistic as an evaluation of the true health of Downtown Dallas (or any city).

[RedScare 1663]

The perpetually high office vacancy rate in the Dallas CBD does seem to indicate poor health for the area, but only if its purpose is strictly as a business center.

Given, the amount of activity in the area; including office to loft conversion, new boutique hotels/retail spaces, and new office/condo construction; I think you can safely define the area as more than simply an "office market". It is quickly becoming a more dynamic mixed use neighborhood.

The office vacancy rate problem does need to be resolved, but unless you are considering purchasing commercial office property, it is myopic to use this one statistic as an evaluation of the true health of Downtown Dallas (or any city).

High office vacancies can present numerous problems for a downtown area. In addition to the empty buildings, retail stores and restaurants that cater to the office workers fail, hotels that serve business travellers sit empty, and the streets are generally empty, making an area unattractive to tourists. Downtown hotels currently operate at just over 50% occupancy, well below the 60% needed to break even.

There is certainly plenty of interest in reviving downtown Dallas, with the City throwing some big dollars at it, as well as some big conversion projects underway. However, downtown still needs its office component. Consider that a 500,000 square foot office building might hold 2.500 to 3,000 workers, eating lunch every day, buying supplies, and receiving out of town business travellers, who stay in downtown hotels, whereas that same building as a condo project might only hold 500 residents. An empty building does nothing for the local economy, and eventually becomes blight. Empty buildings also attract crime, further hurting an area's reputation, and therefore, it's vitality.

True, office vacancy alone is not a true indicator of a downtown's health, but that statistic, coupled with hotel occupancy figures, crime statistics and total downtown employment can give a better picture. And, often times, office vacancy can be a leading indicator of these other issues.

[Dallasboi 3]

High office vacancies can present numerous problems for a downtown area. In addition to the empty buildings, retail stores and restaurants that cater to the office workers fail, hotels that serve business travellers sit empty, and the streets are generally empty, making an area unattractive to tourists. Downtown hotels currently operate at just over 50% occupancy, well below the 60% needed to break even.

There is certainly plenty of interest in reviving downtown Dallas, with the City throwing some big dollars at it, as well as some big conversion projects underway. However, downtown still needs its office component. Consider that a 500,000 square foot office building might hold 2.500 to 3,000 workers, eating lunch every day, buying supplies, and receiving out of town business travellers, who stay in downtown hotels, whereas that same building as a condo project might only hold 500 residents. An empty building does nothing for the local economy, and eventually becomes blight. Empty buildings also attract crime, further hurting an area's reputation, and therefore, it's vitality.

True, office vacancy alone is not a true indicator of a downtown's health, but that statistic, coupled with hotel occupancy figures, crime statistics and total downtown employment can give a better picture. And, often times, office vacancy can be a leading indicator of these other issues.

I agree with you red for the most part but I think that the only way this would hurt downtown was if it was 50% vacant and up.Because........ if dallas only had 100 buildings downtown and let's say our vacancy rate was 30% that would mean 30 of the 100 would be empty.And what your saying is this would then cause an increase of crime (which it's possible) Undesireable to tourist, no business travelers would enjoy downtown.....That is untrue...because if just 30 empty buildings could cause all of this then What are the other 70 buildings doing.....................Nothing? And to keep things in perspective...DtD is on 22% vacant not even 30%.

[Houston19514 3881]

I agree with you red for the most part but I think that the only way this would hurt downtown was if it was 50% vacant and up.Because........ if dallas only had 100 buildings downtown and let's say our vacancy rate was 30% that would mean 30 of the 100 would be empty.And what your saying is this would then cause an increase of crime (which it's possible) Undesireable to tourist, no business travelers would enjoy downtown.....That is untrue...because if just 30 empty buildings could cause all of this then What are the other 70 buildings doing.....................Nothing? And to keep things in perspective...DtD is on 22% vacant not even 30%.

Where do you find a 22% vacancy rate for downtown Dallas? It may not be as high as 30%, but I have not seen anything to suggest it has gotten as low (relatively speaking) as 22%.

[houstonfella 83]

I think you are right, Red. Here is a blurb from an article from Houston Chronicle on Atlanta's vacancy woes:

Atlanta is grappling with its biggest commercial real estate slump in 10 years, according to broker Cushman & Wakefield. The downtown area had a vacancy rate of 29 percent in the second quarter, the nation's highest. In the third quarter, the number improved to 27.2 percent. Only Dallas was worse off, with 28.1 percent vacancy.

Houston's downtown office vacancy rate is 15.7 percent, according to third-quarter figures from CB Richard Ellis. [This does not include the mega leasing that we are experiencing in the 4th quarter. So Houston should be down around 12% at least by the end of the year for CBD.]

Atlanta CBD

This is the article that I read. It focused mostly on Atlanta, but in passing gave figures of Dallas CBD at 28.1%. This is quite recent.

[Houston19514 3881]

Where do you find a 22% vacancy rate for downtown Dallas? It may not be as high as 30%, but I have not seen anything to suggest it has gotten as low (relatively speaking) as 22%.

Dallasboi... ?? I know you're there... ;-) Any source for your numbers?

[JasonDFW 1]

Dallasboi... ?? I know you're there... ;-) Any source for your numbers?

The class A space always seems to be in the 15-22% range so perhaps that's what he was talking about. I don't know myself, I'm not a vacancy expert.

Jason

[Houston19514 3881]

The class A space always seems to be in the 15-22% range so perhaps that's what he was talking about. I don't know myself, I'm not a vacancy expert.

Jason

A LOT closer to the 22% end of that range..., but perhaps that is what Dallasboi meant. A little misleading, to say the least. It's a shame he won't answer a simple question.

[houstonfella 83]

Dallas, according to this June 2006 report, comes in behind Austin in the CBD rankings. Houston is 8th (number of employees downtown). We (Hou) rank first in Texas.

CBD USA

Of course, Houston is most charitable in Texas. Some interesting tidbits in here.

This article was in DBJ in May 2006.

Dallas CBD

Edited November 9, 2006 by houstonfella

[Montrose1100 3273]

Dallas, according to this June 2006 report, comes in behind Austin in the CBD rankings. Houston is 8th (number of employees downtown). We (Hou) rank first in Texas.

CBD USA

Of course, Houston is most charitable in Texas. Some interesting tidbits in here.

This article was in DBJ in May 2006.

Dallas CBD

CBD Demographics

I find it hard to believe that more people work in Downtown Austin, then Dallas & Fort Worth Combined.

Besides, that data is from 2000.

[TexasStar 5]

I was perusing old Dallas Morning News articles and found this one dated Sept 11, 1960.

It appears Dallas has always been prone to overbuilding. It's just a city trait, and one unlikely to ever change.

[dfwcre8tive 40]

I like this photo showing the West End and Uptown that was posted on the DFW forum in this post.

Edited February 21, 2007 by njjeppson

[dbigtex56 1023]

*Deleted multiple posts*

We're not joking. Flames will be deleted without notice.

If you have any questions, read the reminder at the top of this page, or contact a moderator.

[The Great Hizzy! 10]

I like this photo showing the West End and Uptown that was posted on the DFW forum in this post.

That is a nice photo. What is the gritty building at the very front of the pic? Is it an old warehouse waiting for renovation or is it already in use?

[slfunk 21]

That is a nice photo. What is the gritty building at the very front of the pic? Is it an old warehouse waiting for renovation or is it already in use?

The building in the immediate front is an old building that has remained vacant for sometime now. I don't know if anyone is planning anything with it. It has some trees growing out of it, or use to. Its a small small building so afraid much not come of it with its small foot print and the expense it would require to upgrade it. The building butting up against was gutted and refurbished about 5 years ago waiting for a new tenant, but sat empty until recently. There has been some activity as of last summer/fall with the addition of new storefront along the dart rail line, a new roof, and some other work. Don't know what the plans are. I am sure with the 1001 Ross and the new West End station going in immediately across the station they will have at the very least some resturant looking to move in to that building. That will be close to 350 apartsments in that immediate area not including the condos already there a block away near the JFK museum. El Centro bought the Paramount Plaza building a block away at the corner of the Dart rail and Market. So those tenants will be kicked out for El Centro's new nursing school going in.

[The Great Hizzy! 10]

You said Ross, so that means that I've probably driven past the thing a couple of dozen times during my visits to Dallas over the past few years. Is it part of the West End District "officially"?

Edited February 22, 2007 by The Great Hizzy!

[dfwcre8tive 40]

The white building and one attached to it are part of the Awalt Furniture Company complex. The oldest building in the set is now rehabilitated, but these two buildings await rehabilitation while a fourth is already demolished (the parking lot). Recently the street level space has been restored and cleaned up and new windows have been installed to "stabilize" the buildings. The larger building in back steps out onto the West End light rail station. Here are some older photos, before renovation began.

Awalt Buildings

807 Elm and 804-806 Pacific

[slfunk 21]

You said Ross, so that means that I've probably driven past the thing a couple of dozen times during my visits to Dallas over the past few years. Is it part of the West End District "officially"?

The white building is on Elm. The back red building is on Dart Rail, and you can see 1001 Ross ave in the picture. The one with the brick and metal paneling. There is a parking lot cady corner from 1001 Ross and on the other side of the red building that is now a construction site for the West End Station apartments posted in another thread.

[dfwcre8tive 40]

That is a nice photo. What is the gritty building at the very front of the pic? Is it an old warehouse waiting for renovation or is it already in use?

Here's another photo of the West End Square building still under renovation.

[slfunk 21]

Work starting on Uptown high-rise

Alta Rosewood to be neighborhood's largest residential building

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...se.379108e.html

11:08 PM CDT on Friday, March 23, 2007

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

stevebrown@dallasnews.com

"Developers have broken ground on the biggest residential building yet in Dallas' Uptown neighborhood.

The 375-unit Alta Rosewood residential tower is being constructed a block from the Crescent by Atlanta-based Wood Partners and the California Public Employees' Retirement System, or Calpers. The 22-story tower is one of a handful of such projects going up in the same neighborhood and will be ready for residents in late 2008.

Located at McKinnon and Hunt streets, the glass-clad apartment building is being built near the southern entrance to the Dallas North Tollway. And it's next door to Rosewood Property Co.'s office tower project at Cedar Springs Road and Pearl Street......"

".....A 425-space parking garage, outdoor pool and fitness center will be on the lower levels of the project. The building was designed by Atlanta-based architect Preston Partnership...."

[slfunk 21]

Ritz-Carlton Phase II

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/6/emw534254.htm

"...Dallas, Texas (PRWEB) June 20, 2007 -- Leading the charge in the renaissance of Uptown Dallas, The Residences at The Ritz-Carlton, Dallas, the city's first residences under the famous Ritz-Carlton brand, will soon break ground on Phase II, The Tower Residences and Regency Row. Scheduled for completion in mid 2009, The Tower Residences and Regency Row homes are the newest additions to The Ritz-Carlton, Dallas neighborhood, affording an unprecedented, elegant lifestyle in Dallas that reflects the style, luxury and top-notch service that is expected from a Ritz-Carlton. Phase I of The Residences have already been sold, driving the demand for a second phase.

The Tower Residences will feature a 23-story Regency-style tower consisting of 96 residences with a variety of floor plans, ranging from one- to three-bedroom residences to penthouses. Also included are four elegantly appointed Regency Row homes separate from the tower. The Tower Residences will be adjacent to The Ritz-Carlton, Dallas and connected by way of a glass and cast stone, air-conditioned walkway on the second floor, making many of the hotel's personalized services and amenities an extension of each resident's home. Prices range from $700,000 to $8 million...."

Edited June 20, 2007 by slfunk

[Houston19514 3881]

Ritz-Carlton Phase II

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/6/emw534254.htm

"...Dallas, Texas (PRWEB) June 20, 2007 -- Leading the charge in the renaissance of Uptown Dallas, The Residences at The Ritz-Carlton, Dallas, the city's first residences under the famous Ritz-Carlton brand, will soon break ground on Phase II, The Tower Residences and Regency Row. Scheduled for completion in mid 2009, The Tower Residences and Regency Row homes are the newest additions to The Ritz-Carlton, Dallas neighborhood, affording an unprecedented, elegant lifestyle in Dallas that reflects the style, luxury and top-notch service that is expected from a Ritz-Carlton. Phase I of The Residences have already been sold, driving the demand for a second phase.

The Tower Residences will feature a 23-story Regency-style tower consisting of 96 residences with a variety of floor plans, ranging from one- to three-bedroom residences to penthouses. Also included are four elegantly appointed Regency Row homes separate from the tower. The Tower Residences will be adjacent to The Ritz-Carlton, Dallas and connected by way of a glass and cast stone, air-conditioned walkway on the second floor, making many of the hotel's personalized services and amenities an extension of each resident's home. Prices range from $700,000 to $8 million...."

Wow. I thought Phase II had already started construction. This looks like a fluff press release to try to boost sales. Notice that they don't specify a date for ground breaking or even a month, just "soon," and then proceed to recite all of the superlatives they can come up with regarding the project...

[jason45 0]

Wow. I thought Phase II had already started construction. This looks like a fluff press release to try to boost sales. Notice that they don't specify a date for ground breaking or even a month, just "soon," and then proceed to recite all of the superlatives they can come up with regarding the project...

Actually they are just finishing up the Hotel. It should be open within the next 2 months. Ground breaking has already started. The base or hole is almost complete but they are waiting for a crane. This is an ongoing problem with all of the new buildings going up in Dallas. They are out of cranes.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...s.1b526958.html

[TxDave 21]

The Ritz just announced a job fair on June 29 & 30 to hire 400 employees for their opening, if anyone is interested

[dfwcre8tive 40]

Another one announced:

$200 million Uptown high-rise project planned

12:00 PM CDT on Thursday, July 19, 2007

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...s.8e5ba5aa.html

Two developers are teaming up for the largest and most expensive project yet in Dallas' booming Woodall Rodgers Freeway corridor.

Granite Properties and Gables Residential said Thursday that they plan to spend $200 million to construct two towers on Akard Street just north of the freeway.

A 24-story residential tower and a 20-story office building will be included in the project, which is next door to the El Fenix Restaurant.

Granite and Gables plan to start work will start in January on the big development.

...

[Trae 185]

So two ~20-story towers will be the most expensive ever on that side of Dallas?

[dfwcre8tive 40]

Check out this nice pano of Uptown Dallas:

OTHER SIZES

Edited July 19, 2007 by njjeppson

[Trae 185]

Reminds me a bit of the TMC (just maybe not as compact or as many cranes). Nice pano there though.

Edited July 19, 2007 by Trae

[JasonDFW 1]

Reminds me a bit of the TMC (just maybe not as compact or as many cranes). Nice pano there though.

There are 17 cranes in that photo, which for Dallas is quite a bit. I imagine it hasn't looked like that since the 80s, which I missed entirely so it's all new to me.

Jason

Edited July 20, 2007 by JasonDFW

[dfwcre8tive 40]

Second Ritz-Carlton condo tower going up

11:13 AM CDT on Thursday, August 9, 2007

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

stevebrown@dallasnews.com

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...n.1929153c.html

A week before the first building opens, construction is underway on a second condo tower in Uptown's Ritz-Carlton development.

Crescent Real Estate Equities Co. has begun building the 23-story Residences at the Ritz-Carlton phase two building at Pearl Street and Cedar Springs Road.

The 23-story tower will contain 96 condominiums and is set to open in mid-2009.

Homes in the $175 million project will range from $700,000 to $8 million.

Construction of the Uptown condo tower follows successful sale of 70 condos in the first building, which also includes the Ritz-Carlton Dallas Hotel.

"It's basically sold out

Edited August 14, 2007 by njjeppson

[KinkaidAlum 2643]

The Ritz project looks beautiful. If the real thing turns out to be even half as good as the renderings, you can count this Houstonian as jealous!

[TxDave 21]

The Ritz project looks beautiful. If the real thing turns out to be even half as good as the renderings, you can count this Houstonian as jealous!

The new tower looks good, but probably not as good at the rendering implies.

Perhaps "aging" will help these buildings establish their dignity.

[strickn 158]

So two ~20-story towers will be the most expensive ever on that side of Dallas?

Trae - the quote to which you're referring said most expensive along the Woodall Rogers corridor. Woodall Rogers is an E-W freeway trench running to the Trinity River from Central Expwy. Its corridor lies in between Downtown and Uptown. Either this is only the most expensive along that linear frontage, or older towers a block (on the south) and a few blocks (on the north) from it were not inflated to 2007 dollars before comparing.

[strickn 158]

Since the thread has dropped, I don't feel badly about derailing it from the listed topic: any idea what the expenses of the biggest non-public building projects (not airports, ports, bridges, stadia, etc) on various 'sides' of Houston have been? I wonder how much Transco cost in 198x dollars and in 2007 dollars, and whether other buildings like Conoco headquarters along I-10 were bigger. For the east side of town, it would probably be a refinery or plant, but I wonder what it was before that. In Dallas, Uptown is active, but Richardson (kind of like, I dunno, Meyerland?) saw the finish of a $3 billion high-tech building in the past year. The Dallas logistics hub looking to capitalize (and piggyback) on the Port of Houston is a development with a lot of investment: Union Pacific has a major intermodal hub going and BNSF bought rights in April to purchase land for a terminal.

[nucklehead 0]

If done right, Midtown Houston could be even greater than Uptown Dallas.

The potential of Midtown is huge, especially the area from Louisiana to San Jacinto and Pierce to Elgin. But it must not be developed as a bunch of isolated compounds, rather it should be a number of open properties, interconnected with the neighborhood.

The city of Dallas has been passionate about developing both its downtown and surrounding areas for some 30 years now. If the city of Houston likewise wants to do something with its Midtown area, it will need to make some time consuming fixes. One fix is that it needs to bury the two elevated freeways that cut off the neighborhood of Midtown from both the downtown area and the Art's district/Medical Center areas. Of course, the problem with burying any freeway in Houston is that they are subject to torrential flooding.

The city of Dallas planned well by originally burying the freeway that splits both the downtown area from the uptown one. Now they are in the process of making even the sunken portion of the freeway disappear by building a park plaza on top of it.

In regards to development, developers never develop in a continuous fashion in a single area. A problem arises when prices of real estate rise along with the value of the finished development. That is why new development tends to spread out throughout a booming area because developers look elsewhere for cheaper land prices. Eventually the too hot prices around the new development will cool off enough to add new development to that particular area. But once again the price of real estate would rise causing the developers to once again look elsewhere for cheaper land.

Another concern with planned developments are economic downturns. During the recession of the 80's a lot of master planned developments in Houston got scrapped. One example of this would be Greenway Plaza. The original master plan for its development called for a mini airport to be built upon a long, continuous parking garage across the freeway. There is now retail space in its place. The master plan also called for another Summit like arena to be built in the project. Anyway, the point is that master plans go to hell during a recession and leave huge gaps of undevelopment afterwards even up to many years after the economy has picked back up.

[Trae 185]

They aren't covering all of the Woodall Rogers Freeway. Just part of it.

[nucklehead 0]

They aren't covering all of the Woodall Rogers Freeway. Just part of it.

True. But the city of Dallas is so convinced that elevated freeways restrict development downtown that they are considering a long range plan to bury the mix masters also along with the whole freeway loop that encircles the city core.

[Trae 185]

They need to get started on that. That is a lot of freeway to bury.

[nucklehead 0]

Check out this nice pano of Uptown Dallas:

OTHER SIZES

That picture is awesome indeed. Consider that Uptown will really start booming once they complete the next phase of the Art's district. That might be hard for one to imagine but where else is there a better place to invest?

[nucklehead 0]

Dallas, according to this June 2006 report, comes in behind Austin in the CBD rankings. Houston is 8th (number of employees downtown). We (Hou) rank first in Texas.

CBD USA

Of course, Houston is most charitable in Texas. Some interesting tidbits in here.

This article was in DBJ in May 2006.

Dallas CBD

I remember reading somewhere that the Las Colinas area in Irving has more office space than the whole city of Austin. If this is indeed true, how can it be possible that downtown Austin has more workers than downtown Dallas while at the same time it has less space than Las Coninas which has fewer employees than downtown Dallas? Could it be that government workers are included in the statistics maybe?

[nucklehead 0]

I agree with you red for the most part but I think that the only way this would hurt downtown was if it was 50% vacant and up.Because........ if dallas only had 100 buildings downtown and let's say our vacancy rate was 30% that would mean 30 of the 100 would be empty.And what your saying is this would then cause an increase of crime (which it's possible) Undesireable to tourist, no business travelers would enjoy downtown.....That is untrue...because if just 30 empty buildings could cause all of this then What are the other 70 buildings doing.....................Nothing? And to keep things in perspective...DtD is on 22% vacant not even 30%.

When looking at office buildings as a tourist, I really have no preference as to whether they are occupied with working employees or are sitting empty.

[Trae 185]

Wow okay, as a tourist... Like that really matters.

"Hey guys, let's go to Detroit, and look at their dark and abandoned office towers".

Edited October 6, 2007 by Trae

[nucklehead 0]

They need to get started on that. That is a lot of freeway to bury.

You do realize that I was talking about only the downtown area and not the entire freeway loop system that encircles most of the city? That would indeed be a lot of freeway to bury. The reason I mention this is because the city of Dallas is convinced that elevated freeways cut off neighborhoods from each other and stunt development. If this theory is true, then this would mean that the Midtown area in Houston has 2 elevated freeways and 1 elevated feeder cutting it off from almost 3/4 of the rest of the city.Also one must keep in mind how developers build in a neighborhood. They don't just concentrate on a single area because that gets too expensive as completed developments tend to drive prices up to an unreasonable price. So developers will leave to focus on other areas in that same neighborhood for a while until prices come back down to a more reasonable level. That is why neighborhoods in the suburbs tend to get developed in a checkerboard fashion. This habit by developers shows why it is important to do away elevated freeways as hindrances to development. I can give an excellent example showing just how true this theory works. Take a look at one of Midtown's fastest growing areas just to the southwest of downtown Houston and you will notice that it is not seperated by an elevated freeway from the already established neighborhood of Montrose.

Wow okay, as a tourist... Like that really matters."Hey guys, let's go to Detroit, and look at their dark and abandoned office towers".

I guess what I am saying is that I never actually look into an office building at the employees when I am looking at an office building. I mean, if I am not looking into the office building at the employees, then how would I even know that the office building is empty? (How many letter I's can you find in this statement?)

[Trae 185]

I was talking about the freeway loop that surrounds Downtown Dallas. A lot of freeway to bury.

[Guest Marty]

Like I said in this thread... post #2...http://www.houstonarchitecture.info/haif/i...showtopic=12672

Dallas and Houston can not be compared to each other because of the vibe that makes them one of a kind, That is what makes Texas great, that's what makes life great. be yourself ect...

[RedScare 1663]

The city of Dallas has been passionate about developing both its downtown and surrounding areas for some 30 years now.

Absolutely false.

[RedScare 1663]

I remember reading somewhere that the Las Colinas area in Irving has more office space than the whole city of Austin. If this is indeed true, how can it be possible that downtown Austin has more workers than downtown Dallas while at the same time it has less space than Las Coninas which has fewer employees than downtown Dallas? Could it be that government workers are included in the statistics maybe?

Las Colinas does not have more office space than Austin. Las Colinas has 22.3 million square feet, while Austin has nearly 40 million square feet. Additionally, it is not true that downtown Dallas has more workers than Las Colinas. Las Colinas has approximately 100,000 workers to Austin's 86,000 to Dallas' 79,000.

As to your last question, of course government workers are included. Why would they not be? It may surprise you to learn that government workers also work at Dallas City Hall, the courthouses, and the County.

[nucklehead 0]

Absolutely false.

Excuse me? I am actually from Dallas. Uptown in Dallas exists primarily because the city had the vision to bury a portion of the freeway below grade some 30 years ago. Then in the 80's when land in downtown Dallas got too expensive, office construction began to be built north of the freeway in the area now called uptown. During that time a developer by the name of Fox (Fox and Jacobs fame) tried building houses just to the northeast of downtown. A lot of work went into the infrastructure of Uptown at different times. Uptown didn't just grow out of the ground like a weed.

I know Houstonians hate to hear this because they like to think that the area of Midtown will some day develop as Uptown did in Dallas by just magically growing itself out of the ground.