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Uptown Dallas Density

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Looks great! I like the way the apartments look.

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I like the second picture. Reminds me of those skyline pictures of cities with those commie blocks sort of.

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Forgive my ignorance of the geographic bounds of Dallas neighborhoods.

Is Uptown where the big mall is with the Neiman Marcus and S5A?

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I think you're referring to North Park Mall. If so, the answer is, that's not Uptown. That mall sits between the Glen Lakes and Park Cities at NW Highway and Central Expressway. Uptown runs from Woodall Rodgers (northern border of CBD/Arts District) up to Haskell/Blackburn(Cityplace building). It contains Victory, Crescent Complex, International Centre, State-Thomas, LoMac, and the West Village/Cityplace development.

This pic gives a good location perspective

105_0595.jpg

As for Uptown not being that dense, I'd agree that tall building-wise its not, but street level and actual stats tell a different story. I'd say in ten years though, it will be very dense in taller buildings. There are 8 here alone that are either in pre-leasing or under construction. Very hot market for developers.

http://forum.dallasmetropolis.com/showthread.php?t=1935

from the northern end. Endless sea of apts, condos and townhomes. The townhomes continue up north in Knox Park as well.

downtown%20from%2017de.jpg

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I can see Midtown Houston becoming this dense, or slightly more dense. OF COURSE, Midtown would also have the standard issue Houston renegades ( CVS, etc ) this is a good example of what zoning/deed restrictions can do.

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No not CVS. There are building another one on the Grand Parkway at Kingsland Blvd. There is already one 2 miles down Grand Parkway next to the SuperTarget at my aparment complex in Cinco Ranch. There are to many of these popping up in my area. Many others on the East side of the Grand Parkway in Katy and West of South Fry Road in Katy.

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This area is getting more dense by the day. There are many projects going up. It's already a great place to walk around.

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Virtually all of the recent (within 10 years) low, mid & high rise development in this part of Dallas - uptown - has brought residential units to vacant or unoccupied lots, and the affluence associated a Turtle Creek Blvd address blankets uptown's new addresses. It seems very likely that as soon as the last empty lot is prepared for mid/highrise construction, the remaining garden apartments from the 50's and 60's will be ready to fall. Some of the most desirable locations in uptown are occupied by aging apartment buildings with a very short life expectancy. This area should not be expected to slow down.

From what I gather, Dallas' uptown is comaprable to Houston's midtown, when considering location and general neighborhood character. Both of these areas are going to be the "hottest" spots in the state during the coming decades of anticipated population and economic growth. I'm inclined to think joining the short list of Texas highrise urban residential destinations will be downtown San Antonio and Austin immediately south of Town Lake. The sooner Austin and San Antonio make the jump to offgrade public transportation (trains) the sooner development will have a fixed public transportation route to stabalize some development speculation.

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This is an article from Dallas morning news with compiled list of current projects. Most of these are in the Victory, downtown, and uptown (turtle creek, west village, McKinney Ave). If they are not under construction they will be within the next year. There many more in the planning stages that have been announced but not as far a long as the ones listed below.

Urban renewed

Retail, hotels are joining Uptown neighborhoods

09:46 PM CST on Thursday, November 25, 2004

By STEVE BROWN / The Dallas Morning News

Uptown is ground zero for the North Texas building boom.

More than a dozen major developments are in the works north of downtown Dallas, and construction is under way on more than 900 apartments, condos and townhouses.

Demand for sites is so strong that land prices are topping $70 per square foot, even higher than downtown.

That's not bad for a neighborhood that in the early 1980s was a collection of vacant car lots, rundown houses and old warehouses. And if developers can find enough land to build on, the next 20 years should see even more construction.

Part of Uptown's appeal is its personality

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Not yet but they are supposed to soon.

713 to 214...did you get my PM?

Well I just drove by today on my way to lunch. I do not know if it is One Victory, but they have starting digging (probably for peers) on the site at Houston and Victory Ave. This is on the Woodall Rogers side next to Hooters. So looks like Hillwood is keeping their word and have broken ground on another building.

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Dallas' Uptown is more relativly close to Downtown then Houston's is... One day, it might just be all Downtown... and that would be a really big one! I like Dallas' Skyline, and Uptown, I just hate the BOA Tower!

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If anything, Midtown Houston may end up slightly resembling Dallas Uptown.

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If done right, Midtown Houston could be even greater than Uptown Dallas.

The potential of Midtown is huge, especially the area from Louisiana to San Jacinto and Pierce to Elgin. But it must not be developed as a bunch of isolated compounds, rather it should be a number of open properties, interconnected with the neighborhood.

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The potential of Midtown is huge, especially the area from Louisiana to San Jacinto and Pierce to Elgin.  But it must not be developed as a bunch of isolated compounds, rather it should be a number of open properties, interconnected with the neighborhood.

What are the light rail plans through Midtown? Developments in Dallas along the DART lines should give general idea what will come along the train lines in Houston.

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In my previous post I had not even considered the rail component.

While DART is having great success in Dallas, the rail line generally bypasses Uptown (aside from Cityplace which is kind of on the fringe). Sure, the M-Line trolly passes through, but that is more novelty than practical.

Meanwhile, back to Midtown Houston - the Main Street Metro line runs right through Midtown with several stops. Hopefully that will help to fuel Midtown's development.

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In my previous post I had not even considered the rail component. 

While DART is having great success in Dallas, the rail line generally bypasses Uptown (aside from Cityplace which is kind of on the fringe).  Sure, the M-Line trolly passes through, but that is more novelty than practical.

Meanwhile, back to Midtown Houston - the Main Street Metro line runs right through Midtown with several stops.  Hopefully that will help to fuel Midtown's development.

Citiplace (West Village) and Victory both are generally considered part of uptown, and represent the bookends of Dallas hip, new & upscale urban area. [Personally, I'm hoping uptown will successfully drain the pretentious encroachment out of Deep Ellum so Dallas' hip, grungy urban area will get its soul back.]

Additionally, both Citiplace and Victory are served by DART rail, but your right that the impact of Transit Oriented Development has had little to do with the growth of uptown, it's kinda weird. The Trolly is working out plans to upgrade/update the system and plans significant expand within the Central Business District to be functional for commuters rather than just a novelty. With a turn-around at the Citiplace DART Station, the trolly should have a good life funneling commuters from the northern suburbs into uptown and giving uptown residents a convenient connection to the North-South spine of DART as well as the CBD. I'm unaware of official plans to run the Trolly into the Victory development and create a transfer to the DART line serving Las Colinas, DFW Airport, and NW satellite cities, but that has to be on the minds of DART, Trolly and Victory planners.

Future Midtown Houston will benefit from preexisting rail transportation into the CBD. As long as the same line runs from downtown through midtown then to uptown, the prospect of a carless existance in Houston is very promising.

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Here's another shot, taken from Hampton Road and I-30. From L to R, Lower Stemmons, Market Center, Turtle Creek (in the back is North Central Corridor), Cityplace, Uptown, and Downtown.

12110402s.jpg

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glad we don't have that tacky signage on our downtown buildings...

Is that TXU and Adams Mark I see?

You will, just wait. Someday, someone's going to do it.

Yes, TXU has their sign on Energy Plaza and Adam's Mark has a sign on their tallest tower, the former Southland Life building.

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glad we don't have that tacky signage on our downtown buildings...

Is that TXU and Adams Mark I see?

Well at least we don't have the Japan theme going on here. I'd be scared if that were to happen.

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Japan theme ?

The panoramic pic is actually of a rather isolated area south of the 16-lane Stemmons expressway (I-35E). The three brown brick buildings of varying heights to the right constitute the mammoth Anatole Hotel and it's across the freeway from the market center. The photographer was, I think, on the Oak Cliff side of the Trinity. About 6 inches to the right of the edge of the photo would be the Victory project and behind that the State/Thomas area. Downtown Dallas would be further to the right.

The State/Thomas area is indeed dense. There is nothing comprable in Houston. Buildings do not have grass/mud easements and it gives the whole area a distinctly practical urban feel. Sidewalks extend to the curb (like in the Post development) instead of having a silly little beatup patch of grass two feet wide that you have to step on when you get out of your car or avoid another pedestrian. It all runs together somewhat seemlessly although there are still a few vacant lots. I think people bought there rapidly because it was zoned and they weren't afraid a CVS and its suburban style parking lot would go in next door (i.e. W.Gray in midtown). Like Fourth Ward,, which it resembles in some ways, it was a slum. But unlike Fourth

Ward, its residents didn't fight back and throw rocks through new windows which has happened for some time in Houston. Its main street, McKinney, is bustling and crowded with snazzy resturants, offices, shops, and several highrise condos. There are many Post developments in the area. This was all possible because of zoning.

I moved to Houston from Dallas in '73 partly because I liked the eclectic mix of buildings in Houston. It seemed more urban to me so I stayed. State/Thomas and other areas of the so-called uptown Dallas district and Oaklawn have changed my mind about zoning. I'm afraid Midtown Houston will continue to be a hodgepodge of compounds unless some kind of restrictions are imposed on developers by the city.

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The panoramic pic is actually of a rather isolated area south of the 16-lane Stemmons expressway (I-35E).  The three brown brick buildings of varying heights to the right constitute the mammoth Anatole Hotel and it's across the freeway from the market center.  The photographer was, I think, on the Oak Cliff side of the Trinity.  About 6 inches to the right of the edge of the photo would be the Victory project and behind that  the State/Thomas area.  Downtown Dallas would be further to the right.

The State/Thomas area is indeed dense. There is nothing comprable in Houston. Buildings do not have grass/mud easements and it gives the whole area a distinctly practical urban feel.  Sidewalks extend to the curb (like in the Post development) instead of having a silly little beatup patch of grass two feet wide that you have to step on when you get out of your car or avoid another pedestrian.  It all runs together somewhat seemlessly although there are still a few vacant lots.  I think people  bought there rapidly because it was zoned and they weren't afraid a CVS and its suburban style parking lot would go in next door (i.e. W.Gray in midtown).  Like Fourth Ward,, which it resembles in some ways, it was a slum. But unlike Fourth

Ward, its residents didn't fight back and throw rocks through new windows which has happened for some time in Houston. Its main street, McKinney, is bustling and crowded with snazzy resturants, offices, shops, and several highrise condos.  There are many Post developments in the area.  This was all possible because of zoning.

I moved to Houston from Dallas in '73 partly because  I liked the eclectic mix of buildings in Houston.  It seemed more urban to me so I stayed.  State/Thomas and other areas of the so-called uptown Dallas district and Oaklawn have changed my mind about zoning. I'm afraid Midtown Houston will continue to be a hodgepodge of compounds unless some kind of restrictions are imposed on developers by the city.

0 sorry, I forgot to scroll. That is a nice pic.

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Japan theme ?

Well what I was referring to is the amount of signage that is permitted in Japan and China. Just about every building is an advertisement/ billboard. That would be scary if it were to happen here.

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The M-Line stops right at the subway entrance. The M-line Authority is already converting more practical vehicles(more modern streetcars) and they are in talks with DART to help fund, as well as extend the line more extensively through downtown. It will be a novelty no more.

BTW, in that rendering, 7D(Bryson), Half of 7C(Border and Chase Bank), West Village, and ZOM(Mondriand) are finished are near finished. The other half of 7C has been mentioned in articles and is already staked. A development that is unlabeled here and across Blackburn from West Village(to the right here) is under construction. Its another ground floor retail, residential above building extension to the West Village. In addition to this, on the DFW forums, we have renderings of the soon to go up subway entrance tower, and some architects on the forum have mentioned designing several 20+ story towers for this project, but won't give details.

Uptown is on pace to fill up in less than 5 years and begin to feed on its own older or more cheaply built apts. The next question, is what becomes the next Uptown? The candidates I think are the Trinity River Meander, Park Lane/Northpark(rezoned and has great new developments u/c), or Deep Ellum/Bryan Place area. The Cedars will become its own cool area. A half super urban/half Deep Ellum(Nightlife is moving there). I pick the Bryan Place/Deep Ellum area. You already have Bryan Place looking like State-Thomas. Then you have the CityLights development that's akin to the West Village. Then you have mixed-use announcements for Deep Ellum and the Two DART stations going in the next 5 years. Deep Ellum will go from Punk/Clubs to Yuppie, hehe. The Cedars from wasteland to urban pioneer.

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Uptown is on pace to fill up in less than 5 years and begin to feed on its own older or more cheaply built apts.

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Redevelopment projects go from bust to boom

12:08 PM CST on Saturday, January 15, 2005

By DAVID FLICK / The Dallas Morning News

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...lick.4389f.html

There has been nothing like it in downtown Dallas for 20 years. After a period when progress on redevelopment seemed stalled, or at least invisible, the coming year will see at least 10 projects in various states of construction in the center city. Most of the projects will convert office buildings into residential and retail space. The DP&L and Interurban buildings will be ready for occupancy in the first half of the year, and city officials say they expect construction to begin or continue on the Republic Bank Tower, Gulf States Building, Fidelity Union Life Insurance building, the so-called Davis lot, the 1414 Elm St. building and the 1200 Main St. building.

In addition, work will proceed on the new hotel-retail complex at 1530 Main St. and the retail building at 1217 Main St. The last time we had so much construction going on downtown at one time was six years ago, and this is much larger than that," said Alice Murray, president of the Central Dallas Association. "I think it makes a big statement." Last week's edition of Downtown This Week, published by the CDA and the Downtown Improvement District, noted that the number of housing units downtown grew 747 percent between 1995 and 2005

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The Azure

Harwood International's New Division Unveils $100M Condo Project

By Connie Gore

Last updated: January 24, 2005 08:21am

DALLAS-Promising to raise the bar on condo designs, Harwood International today unveils the Azure, a 31-story, sleek tower set to rise as the first in a branded line for an emerging subsidiary. The $100-million high rise will break ground April 15.

Harwood CEO Gabriel Barbier-Mueller and Harwood Living president Julie Morris will share the dais with Dallas Mayor Laura Miller and several council members at the 2 p.m. debut of a 10-foot model at the 2828 N. Harwood St. sales center. The 202-unit Azure, bearing a spring 2007 delivery, will rise at 2900 McKinnon St. on 1.3 acres in Harwood's 12-block footprint in Uptown. The site will take three months to prep, with the expectation that the Azure will start to go vertical by midsummer.

Barbier-Mueller tells GlobeSt.com that he's been waiting nearly two decades for Dallas to emerge as a luxury condo market. "I waited for this area to create a need for an urban residential environment," says the developer of one million sf of trophy office and retail space in Uptown and heir to a family responsible for developing 45,000 residential units in Switzerland.

The project site was ticketed for another office building in Harwood International Center until three years ago when Barbier-Mueller started mapping out a new plan, sped along by Uptown's top-performing commercial markets and the return of condos as hot properties in most US metros. He then laid the groundwork for Harwood Living, now a team of 12 brought together to lead the Azure's development and sales plus act as a model for a branded residential portfolio.

"We are exploring other markets," Barbier-Mueller says, "but at this time we're focused on the Azure, which will become the showroom." He adds it's too preliminary to discuss other locations, but did say the search includes the US and Europe. He's also not ruling out a sister project for Harwood's Uptown blocks. "It depends on the success of this one," he adds. "But as Dallas continues to mature, I think that's certainly a possibility."

The Azure will break ground with some condos sales closed and several prospects eyeing penthouses. The number of sales isn't being released. However, early buyers have been from out of town, including one with homes in Mexico, Europe and Dallas. "We're well ahead of where we thought we'd be," Barbier-Mueller says.

Morris predicts the Azure, with units from $400,000 to $4 million, will be sold out before construction is done. Each floor is designed with eight units, ranging from 881 sf to 5,025 sf and terraces of 134 sf to 3,940 sf. The high rise will take up one-third of the 1.3 acres and the balance will be laid out with gardens and an Olympic-size swimming pool with private cabanas. Underground parking will feature two-vehicle, private garages.

The Azure is being touted as a new landmark for the Dallas skyline with "a walk-to-life lifestyle" for its proximity to upscale entertainment and restaurant venues along with a built-in, resort-style amenities comparable to a five-star hotel. Cabinetry will come from Germany; stones will be imported from France; and the skin will be floor-to-ceiling glass for unobstructed views from the tallest building in Uptown, 375 feet or nearly 140 feet higher than its neighbors.

As Uptown booms with condo development, Barbier-Mueller says his team's created a niche in the luxury arena. "We don't have a hotel with it. We are focused on privacy and exclusivity of the 200 residents," he says. "We are definitely offering a new style of lifestyle."

Barbier-Mueller's Harwood is partnering with Westbank Projects Corp. of Vancouver, BC on the development, designed by James KM Cheng Architects Inc., with offices in Vancouver and New York City, and Gensler Architects, a San Francisco-headquartered international firm with offices in 25 cities. Dallas-based SWA Group is the landscape architect while Gensler and Lauren Rottet of Los Angeles teamed on interior designs. Harwood Living is overseeing a sales team that includes Gullotto Group/Ebby Halliday Realtors and the Seattle-based Rennie Marketing Systems. Barbier-Mueller says 70% of the subcontractors are in place while the decision is still out on a general contractor.

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ah... gotta love dallas! with 38% downtown vacancy, they're still building. i wish houston would get on the redevelopment bandwagon instead of just talking about it.

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ah... gotta love dallas!  with 38% downtown vacancy, they're still building.  i wish houston would get on the redevelopment bandwagon instead of just talking about it.

38%? You may need to go back and check your facts.

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Steve Brown

A flaw in the numbers game

Downtown vacancy rate is being recalculated to drop boarded-up shells

09:48 PM CST on Thursday, February 3, 2005

Often things aren't as bad as they appear.

That turns out to be the case with the downtown Dallas office market.

For years, we've heard how downtown has the highest office vacancy in the known universe

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Something to keep in mind about downtown is the majority of the empty buildings downtown are currently being renovated or have proposals for renovations. To make the deal work and qualify for the Tax Incentive Program developers are typically making; the typical building conversion is into apartment rental units. Right now the place for new condos (for sale) property is in uptown / Turtle Creeek; this is why there are new buildings going up.

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I'm not sure how I like the idea of Uptown Dallas being so close to downtown. I know everybody loves density but I personally like the way Houston is setup with so much space in between DT and UT. Theres so many green spaces, parks and absolutely fantastic trees. I was driving down Memorial from UT yesterday (looking for the Orion condos) and love the way all the green spaces have been preserved. I hope the city never builds on these areas.

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