Jump to content

Shell Energy Stadium


Subdude

Recommended Posts

pesto, your initial statement is that "enough is enough", enough presumably being the amount of taxpayer money to be spent on sports stadiums. And, however enticing your design proposal for adaptive reuse of the Dome may be, you never even hint at the potential cost of redeveloping the Dome into an attractive 30,000 seat soccer venue, including removable grass trays, nor do you explain why this would be better for the Dynamo financially, a club whose president is a former head of the stadium committe.

My suspicion is that not only would the Dome be expensive for the Dynamo to operate, but the renovations would dwarf the city's cost in helping build a brand new soccer specific stadium. Care to hazard a guess as to what your idea might cost, and why that is a better use of our tax dollars?

Good point. Since only 10% care about soccer, and we spent $900 million on the stadiums for the sports that 90% of the population cares about, I propose that the City limit its investment on a soccer stadium to no more than $100 million.

Do you agree?

Hockey gets $300 million arena's already.....so lets divide the 90 million between the Dynamo. WNBA, badmitton, luge and a professional dart throwing arena. That would give each of these huge sports $18 million of capital.

pesto, your initial statement is that "enough is enough", enough presumably being the amount of taxpayer money to be spent on sports stadiums. And, however enticing your design proposal for adaptive reuse of the Dome may be, you never even hint at the potential cost of redeveloping the Dome into an attractive 30,000 seat soccer venue, including removable grass trays, nor do you explain why this would be better for the Dynamo financially, a club whose president is a former head of the stadium committe.

My suspicion is that not only would the Dome be expensive for the Dynamo to operate, but the renovations would dwarf the city's cost in helping build a brand new soccer specific stadium. Care to hazard a guess as to what your idea might cost, and why that is a better use of our tax dollars?

Good point. Since only 10% care about soccer, and we spent $900 million on the stadiums for the sports that 90% of the population cares about, I propose that the City limit its investment on a soccer stadium to no more than $100 million.

Do you agree?

I almost want to see this arena happen for laughs. Once the ticket prices exceed $20 the attendance will be promptly cut in half. That would be the funny thing about this. I have been to a Dynamo game before.....and it was...well...interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hockey gets $300 million arena's already.....so lets divide the 90 million between the Dynamo. WNBA, badmitton, luge and a professional dart throwing arena. That would give each of these huge sports $18 million of capital.

I almost want to see this arena happen for laughs. Once the ticket prices exceed $20 the attendance will be promptly cut in half. That would be the funny thing about this. I have been to a Dynamo game before.....and it was...well...interesting.

Toyota Center was already built to NHL specs, so if Les Alexander ever got a team, it would be available.

The Comets have left Toyota Center due to the expense of renting a much larger arena than needed...an issue germane to this subject.

As for ticket prices, are you aware that the lowest priced ticket for Dynamo matches is ALREADY $20 for endzone seats? No, I didn't think so.

Hmm...the crowd at Dynamo matches is "interesting". Ever been to NASCAR?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hockey gets $300 million arena's already.....so lets divide the 90 million between the Dynamo. WNBA, badmitton, luge and a professional dart throwing arena. That would give each of these huge sports $18 million of capital.

I almost want to see this arena happen for laughs. Once the ticket prices exceed $20 the attendance will be promptly cut in half. That would be the funny thing about this. I have been to a Dynamo game before.....and it was...well...interesting.

So you see into the future, Well I believe the stadium will get done, Bill White always wants to put it out there that hes tough, like on the Ashby Highrise. I bet the buckhead investments responded the same way "I don't respond well to threats." The Dynamo need a stadium that fits soccer so they can make money plain and simple, and a DT location is best for the city as a whole IMO. The dynamo fans are IMO the craziest loyalest fans other than the Texans and they only play 8 home games a year. This coming from someone who never watched soccer untill we got the Dynamo. And oh yea GO ROCKETS!!!! I mean DALE DALE DALE DYNAMO!!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

at least the Dynamo can win championships. -_-

What's it matter if no one knows about it?

You know the old saying: "If a tree falls in the forest.."

I hate to tell Garber and the MLS, but they aren't on the same level as the NFL, NBA, and MLB. I like the MLS, but there is no way that they can hold a city "hostage" and expect us to bend over for them. They are just not a big enough deal here for a threat of relocation to be a bargaining chip.

They're getting free land, they need to step up and build their own stadium.

My thoughts exactly. Compare the size of the parade thrown when the Rockets last won the championship over ten years ago compared to the Dynamo's most recent championship victory. Look how excited the city got over the Astros just making it to their championship series - without even winning it. I don't remember lines wrapped around the Academy's all over the city to get a their piece of sports history when the Dynamo made it to any of their championships - much less people skipping work to go celebrate the Dynamo's championship victory.

MLS is just not on the same tier as MLB, NFL, or NBA.

Edited by Jeebus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

pesto, your initial statement is that "enough is enough", enough presumably being the amount of taxpayer money to be spent on sports stadiums. And, however enticing your design proposal for adaptive reuse of the Dome may be, you never even hint at the potential cost of redeveloping the Dome into an attractive 30,000 seat soccer venue, including removable grass trays, nor do you explain why this would be better for the Dynamo financially, a club whose president is a former head of the stadium committe.

My suspicion is that not only would the Dome be expensive for the Dynamo to operate, but the renovations would dwarf the city's cost in helping build a brand new soccer specific stadium. Care to hazard a guess as to what your idea might cost, and why that is a better use of our tax dollars?

Red, in my view the real cost/benefit figure for taxpayers is the combined costs of all the proposed public contributions to the Dynamo stadium and site plus the present value of the projected future costs to maintaining the dome (without factoring in the hotel proposal, which I am skeptical about ever coming to fruition) and the loss of tax revenue that would have been generated by alternative private development (probably loft apartments and some ground retail within 10 years) for the blocks where the current soccer stadium is proposed. So that's a much higher threshold figure for the current proposal versus dome renovations. No, I don't have the cost estimates, but I'd bet $100 in Vegas that the dome renovations/adaption would come in cheaper than the current proposal when all those factors are analyzed. But then I've never had any dealings with former city servants owning land on the proposed site.

Snark aside, I'd also bet $1,000 in Vegas that if put to a vote a Dynamo deal that saved the dome would easily beat out a downtown stadium proposal, even if it cost a bit more in net tax dollars. People want to save the dome, the problem has lingered for years, and a 2 for 1 deal usually comes off looking smart and innovative to voters. A PR win for our local elected officials, versus a negative in many districts if the current proposal goes through (especially if the dome to hotel idea collapses.)

Edited by pestofan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Um, yeah kid, I'm quite familiar with the different dimensions for soccer, football, and baseball fields. After having been to probably close to 100 events at the 2 venues I also have a pretty good sense of their dimensions. Way back in architecture studios we learned a thing or two about the need for basic due diligence.

Look, I appreciate your enthusiam for Houston and all things related. Your seemingly non-stop spamming of every urban forum on the net with "Houston is the biggest, greatest, bestest!" cheerleading gets a bit tiring, though (Remember, homework is our friend.) Ever consider that maybe some of us who hold different opinions than you might actually have a background in the subject and perhaps know what we are talking about?

OK, back to the topic. Both stadiums have already hosted soccer games (I'm surprised that an expert like yourself wasn't aware of either that or Google.) For the dome, floor size is not a problem, even if they want wide sidelines they can simply eliminate the lowest rows of seats. And since one of the Dynamo's favorite excuse is that the dome seats too many and might not sellout, removing those seats helps reduce the capacity. Another way to mitigate that issue would be to glass in the upper deck into tons of suites. Lots of revenue potential there, and those that don't sell aren't really visible behind the glass so the place can look and feel 'full' with a lower attendance such as 30K or so. Creative advertising backdrops strategically placed could further replace seats and tighten the venue and increase the home noise advantage. Parking and congestion from hosting multiple events in the entire sports complex are issues, but not insurmountable. Control and amount of revenue is a question, but as long as the Dynamo is asking for public dollars it is subject to negotiation.

The biggest hindrance is MLS wanting a grass field. Certainly a reasonable requirement, but solved by installing a moveable field (or a sectional system) similar to what Phoenix deploys. In for game, out for growing. Very feasible if the county agrees to make the Dynamo the primary client of the dome.

So again, I've yet to hear a legitimate reason as to why the dome wouldn't work, only excuses that are pretty, um, "easily" shot down.

Who the hell are you? Don't act like you know me. Cheerleading "rah rah" Houston on a Houston-based forum? How is me wanting a new stadium for the Dynamo have anything to do with Houston boosting?

Why the Dome would not work? Too big. A complete renovation of the dome would have to happen for it to work, so why not build a new stadium? Especially one on a side of town that is going under a revitalization. Besides, what would it look like if you have 30,000 people in a stadium fit for 70,000? That's a horrible atmosphere and the place looks dead. Just look at teams that play in that environment. All want new stadiums. By the way, you design would be hella expensive. Just thinking about it. Removable grass field, complete renovation of the dome for 30,000 or so people, etc. That's just too much. Build a new stadium that would cost the same. The stadium could be used for concerts, outdoor boxing matches (don't forget Oscar De La Hoya's group is in this), regional high school football matches, among other things.

That, and the Dome is going to be redeveloped into a hotel. Forget that?

Edited by Trae
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Red, in my view the real cost/benefit figure for taxpayers is the combined costs of all the proposed public contributions to the Dynamo stadium and site plus the present value of the projected future costs to maintaining the dome (without factoring in the hotel proposal, which I am skeptical about ever coming to fruition) and the loss of tax revenue that would have been generated by alternative private development (probably loft apartments and some ground retail within 10 years) for the blocks where the current soccer stadium is proposed. So that's a much higher threshold figure for the current proposal versus dome renovations. No, I don't have the cost estimates, but I'd bet $100 in Vegas that the dome renovations/adaption would come in cheaper than the current proposal when all those factors are analyzed. But then I've never had any dealings with former city servants owning land on the proposed site.

Snark aside, I'd also bet $1,000 in Vegas that if put to a vote a Dynamo deal that saved the dome would easily beat out a downtown stadium proposal, even if it cost a bit more in net tax dollars. People want to save the dome, the problem has lingered for years, and a 2 for 1 deal usually comes off looking smart and innovative to voters. A PR win for our local elected officials, versus a negative in many districts if the current proposal goes through (especially if the dome to hotel idea collapses.)

I left out the hotel proposal, too, but frankly, until they are in or out it prohibits consideration of the Dome.

On to the costs. Everyone knows that renovation is more expensive than building new. In the Dome's case, the last renovation 20 years ago cost $80 million. I find it hard to believe that a renovation to a soccer venue would cost less. However, I am not opposed to the idea. I like outdoor stadiums, but if the Dome could be saved....and for sports, no less!....that would be ideal. I don't even believe that the grass is an issue. Remember that the grass did not die until the roof panels were painted to stop glare when fielding fly balls, an issue that is largely confined to baseball. The real issue would be cost, as well as the fact that the Dome is a County building, meaning talks would need to begin anew with County officials.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Um, yeah kid, I'm quite familiar with the different dimensions for soccer, football, and baseball fields. After having been to probably close to 100 events at the 2 venues I also have a pretty good sense of their dimensions. Way back in architecture studios we learned a thing or two about the need for basic due diligence.

So again, I've yet to hear a legitimate reason as to why the dome wouldn't work, only excuses that are pretty, um, "easily" shot down.

Sounds expensive. there's your due diligence.

Having said that, the Dynamo should probably ditch if they don't get what they want, which isn't very much in the larger scheme of things.

Edited by N Judah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Um, yeah kid, I'm quite familiar with the different dimensions for soccer, football, and baseball fields. After having been to probably close to 100 events at the 2 venues I also have a pretty good sense of their dimensions. Way back in architecture studios we learned a thing or two about the need for basic due diligence.

Look, I appreciate your enthusiam for Houston and all things related. Your seemingly non-stop spamming of every urban forum on the net with "Houston is the biggest, greatest, bestest!" cheerleading gets a bit tiring, though (Remember, homework is our friend.) Ever consider that maybe some of us who hold different opinions than you might actually have a background in the subject and perhaps know what we are talking about?

:lol: Great description of this individual. I can't tell you how many times I (and many others) have wanted to type those same words. :lol::D

What is the Dynamo's franchise current value?

Edited by 713 To 214
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds expensive. there's your due diligence.

Having said that, the Dynamo should probably ditch if they don't get what they want, which isn't very much in the larger scheme of things.

Don't know the last time anyone has seen the Dome, but she is in pretty bad shape. The place looks like it is falling apart. I believe when Houston was puting together its proposal for the 2012 Olympics, it budgeted $87 million just to bring the Dome up to snuff for track and field back in 2002...that does not include a removable grass surface, luxury boxes, or decreased capacity...

Edited by cnote
Link to comment
Share on other sites

agreed...I just think when you say the term Major League, it should be a real term and not something that is actually not true. All of the Major sports in the US are actually the best in their profession. The MLS is not even in the top 5 soccer leagues in the world so calling themselves Major is a farce.

yeah dude, we get it... you dont like soccer. now run along.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even if the city told AEG and the Dyanmo, "You know what, screw it, we will build your entire stadium for you howver you like it, whereever you want it, you dont have to pay a penny" it would be cheaper than turning the dome unto a soccer stadium.

The dome needs hundreds of millions of dollars. Even then the Dynamo can't play in the dome. Its a nightmare financially. Running an 70,000 seat stadium is not cheap. You need an army of security guards, janitors, concessions, ushers, and parking attendants, not to mention paying the electrical bills from the lighting necessary even in the day time, and the astronomical costs of running the A/C in the place. It costs roughly $400,000 a day to have an event in a venue that size like Reliant, probably even more in one like the dome built in the 60's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even if the city told AEG and the Dyanmo, "You know what, screw it, we will build your entire stadium for you howver you like it, whereever you want it, you dont have to pay a penny" it would be cheaper than turning the dome unto a soccer stadium.

Prescient

The dome needs hundreds of millions of dollars. Even then the Dynamo can't play in the dome. Its a nightmare financially. Running an 70,000 seat stadium is not cheap. You need an army of security guards, janitors, concessions, ushers, and parking attendants, not to mention paying the electrical bills from the lighting necessary even in the day time, and the astronomical costs of running the A/C in the place. It costs roughly $400,000 a day to have an event in a venue that size like Reliant, probably even more in one like the dome built in the 60's.

Sobering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:lol: Great description of this individual. I can't tell you how many times I (and many others) have wanted to type those same words. :lol::D

What is the Dynamo's franchise current value?

Who the hell are you? You edit your post to add in that one last little sentence in the bottom about the Dynamo.

Don't know the last time anyone has seen the Dome, but she is in pretty bad shape. The place looks like it is falling apart. I believe when Houston was puting together its proposal for the 2012 Olympics, it budgeted $87 million just to bring the Dome up to snuff for track and field back in 2002...that does not include a removable grass surface, luxury boxes, or decreased capacity...

Exactly. pestofan goes on acting like he knows what he is talking about and tries to put me down when I say it is too expensive. I wonder what his background on the subject is...

Edited by Trae
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's my understanding that what the Dynamo want is really just a large high school-sized outdoor stadium...something along the lines of the new h.s. stadium out near Cy Fair College (but in a more expensive downtown location).

I don't see how it would be worth it for the people who own the Dome to renovate it for soccer, since all the big soccer events will be at Reliant.

Edited by N Judah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's my understanding that what the Dynamo want is really just a large high school-sized outdoor stadium...something along the lines of the new h.s. stadium out near Cy Fair College (but in a more expensive downtown location).

I don't see how it would be worth it for the people who own the Dome to renovate it for soccer, since all the big soccer events will be at Reliant.

They want something like this: Pizza Hut Park

HomeDepot.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's it matter if no one knows about it?

You know the old saying: "If a tree falls in the forest.."

My thoughts exactly. Compare the size of the parade thrown when the Rockets last won the championship over ten years ago compared to the Dynamo's most recent championship victory. Look how excited the city got over the Astros just making it to their championship series - without even winning it. I don't remember lines wrapped around the Academy's all over the city to get a their piece of sports history when the Dynamo made it to any of their championships - much less people skipping work to go celebrate the Dynamo's championship victory.

MLS is just not on the same tier as MLB, NFL, or NBA.

Well you can not compare the Dynamo to the Stros, Texans, or Rockets because they are new to this City in a league thats barley 10 years old, obiviously they are getting more popular and more heard of because not many people even knew there was a MLS back then. If you attend a Dynamo game you will see how many people love the Dynamo, and their fans are in there seats out in houston heat, can't ask for more than that. They Deserve a stadium and I still believe it will be worked out. I'll say it again Bill White blows things up as much as the media, it was just the Dynamo showing houston what pressure they are under, and I would go as far to say if it were put to a vote most would be suprised it would pass.

Edited by T 2 THA C
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's not Pizza Hut Park.

No, but it's a good conception of what is wanted: a low-slung, smaller capacity stadium.

I would go as far to say if it were put to a vote most would be suprised it would pass.

Even though I don't live inside the city, and thus couldn't vote, I would still love to see what the citizens of Houston would vote.

Edited by Jeebus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
There was always the idea that the stadium could raise revenue by renting it out for high school football. TSU might be a better fit.

How is that a better deal than what the Dynamo have with UH right now? Only improvement I can see is a better share of the concessions revenue for the Dynamo, and possibly better parking than they have on weeknights at UH.

Is that really enough for the Dynamo to put up tens of millions of dollars?

Not to mention, TSU is hard-pressed to justify spending money on a new stadium when they've just started playing football on campus (in front of hundreds of faithful).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to Fox, TSU has moved even closer to a deal with the City and Dynamo within the past 48 hours:

TSU Moves Closer To Joining Dynamo Stadium Effort

"I had a meeting (Monday) with the City of Houston to discuss the opportunities for Texas Southern to be a part of the Houston Dynamo stadium," McClelland said.

"The meetings went well. I do need to have a follow-up meeting with (team president) Oliver Luck and the Houston Dynamo. I think things are on track. They are moving forward. I think the opportunities are great for Texas Southern University."

McClelland believes what the city and the Dynamo are offering is well within the school's reach.

"In Texas Southern's case, we will pay a portion of the stadium and have rights to be able to utilize it," McClelland said. "We are still trying to work out those dollar amounts. I don't have a clear cut amount yet but I can say, from all indications, it's within reason of something that we will be able to afford."

McClelland told FOX the city and the Dynamo both want his school involved.

"The city is basically with the Houston Dynamo and they are trying to bring Texas Southern in," McClelland said. "From my understanding it will be a shared facility, the Houston Dynamo and Texas Southern athletics."

I think if things work out in the next few days, financing may no longer be a question. The question then would be how they'd coordinate the games and events in the stadium to where there aren't any football lines on the soccer pitch during any soccer events. That would probably be taken care of by a strong grounds-crew I assume.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...