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Subdude

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So this means it will definitely be on the east side of 59?

Sounds like it. The mayor wants it there, there'll be rail there soon, the other sports teams are nearby which can create a sort of year round game atmosphere for some of the dependent retail and, there's land available. Anywhere else would be lacking by comparison.

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So this means it will definitely be on the east side of 59?

"Walking around the area" is a poor excuse for reporting. Nevertheless, they might be onto something with that southwest corner of Dowling and Texas/Harrisburg.

One full block of the four that would be required is already owned by Harris County, and the few other warehouses right there are in pretty bad shape and don't have much character to them. There's also a large abandoned railroad ROW that cuts diagonally through two blocks. Those four blocks are adjacent to some closed streets that were converted to landscaped pedestrian areas as part of the Ballpark at the Lofts apartments development. Also, the East Downtown TIRZ has planned for a long time to convert the full-block gravel lot tucked into the Lofts into a park, so that could be a nice gathering place for sports-related events (complimenting Discovery Green), whether they're at MMP or the soccer stadium.

These blocks are also adjacent to the MMP parking lots, which means that they can sometimes be shared facilities. In fact, by getting more use (i.e. revenue) out of the MMP parking lots, there might just barely be an economic justification for developing the 6.75 blocks there with assloads of structured parking with a residential/retail wrap. Considering what's already right there, that'd yield a fully-contiguous 15.5-block area (50 acres, including streets) of nothing but four-or-more-story buildings and one full-block park, all with light rail running through it.

In comparison to Dallas' Victory Park, 75 acres, it makes a pretty good show...and that's all without actually requiring that some private entity purchase additional land for new construction. Now to be completely clear, I don't care for Victory Park. But I own properties in the East End, and yuppies do wonders for land values. So I don't know about anyone else, but this is something I could get excited about.

Edited by TheNiche
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"Walking around the area" is a poor excuse for reporting. Nevertheless, they might be onto something with that southwest corner of Dowling and Texas/Harrisburg.

One full block of the four that would be required is already owned by Harris County, and the few other warehouses right there are in pretty bad shape and don't have much character to them. There's also a large abandoned railroad ROW that cuts diagonally through two blocks. Those four blocks are adjacent to some closed streets that were converted to landscaped pedestrian areas as part of the Ballpark at the Lofts apartments development. Also, the East Downtown TIRZ has planned for a long time to convert the full-block gravel lot tucked into the Lofts into a park, so that could be a nice gathering place for sports-related events (complimenting Discovery Green), whether they're at MMP or the soccer stadium.

These blocks are also adjacent to the MMP parking lots, which means that they can sometimes be shared facilities. In fact, by getting more use (i.e. revenue) out of the MMP parking lots, there might just barely be an economic justification for developing the 6.75 blocks there with assloads of structured parking with a residential/retail wrap. Considering what's already right there, that'd yield a fully-contiguous 15.5-block area (50 acres, including streets) of nothing but four-or-more-story buildings and one full-block park, all with light rail running through it.

In comparison to Dallas' Victory Park, 75 acres, it makes a pretty good show...and that's all without actually requiring that some private entity purchase additional land for new construction. Now to be completely clear, I don't care for Victory Park. But I own properties in the East End, and yuppies do wonders for land values. So I don't know about anyone else, but this is something I could get excited about.

Not to mention all the newer town house's popping up over there!!

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The light rail is going to present some problems with this area for a Dynamo Stadium.

The current plan has lines running down Capitol and Rusk with a spur going up to where Harrisburg splits off Texas.

That means that the intersection of Texas and Dowling is probably out, specifically, and means that the stadium would have to go in north or south of those streets. They will need 4 to 6 contiguous blocks to fit it in. If it goes north you get pinched off by the existing heavy rail line. If you go south you start running into new townhouse development.

Not being able to the use the Astros parking lot and the presence of existing and future rail line makes the area a lot tighter.

They may be able to squeeze the stadium in there in the triangle between the existing rail line, Harrisburg, and Capitol. Not sure who owns what in that area.

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Proposed Dynamo Stadium Location Here According to Christof's blog it looks like there will be a station @ Dowling.

It sure would be something if old Chinatown came back. I would love to have an urban Chinatown district close to Downtown. Maybe a station naming of "Chinatown" could help with that.

The light rail is going to present some problems with this area for a Dynamo Stadium.The current plan has lines running down Capitol and Rusk with a spur going up to where Harrisburg splits off Texas.That means that the intersection of Texas and Dowling is probably out, specifically, and means that the stadium would have to go in north or south of those streets. They will need 4 to 6 contiguous blocks to fit it in. If it goes north you get pinched off by the existing heavy rail line. If you go south you start running into new townhouse development.Not being able to the use the Astros parking lot and the presence of existing and future rail line makes the area a lot tighter.They may be able to squeeze the stadium in there in the triangle between the existing rail line, Harrisburg, and Capitol. Not sure who owns what in that area.

It isn't a spur, but a totally different line (The East End Line). The East End and Southeast/Green Line run together from Downtown until where the new Dynamo station will be located.

Edited by Trae
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I would really appreciate it if you could post a Google map link to the proposed site. I can't see those Microsoft map links in my web browser(s). :(

Google link to proposed area. If the light rail line dose indeed run down Capitol and Rusk that could be a problem, unless maybe they built a little south of the Texas, Dowling location.

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ABC 13 had a report earlier tonight giving an update on stadium talks (the video's also on their website). Putting that together with KHOU stadium report earlier this week, here's the updated details as to what's cooking:

1) The stadium would now be a $100 Million-25,000 seater instead of a $60-$80 Million project. It sounds like it could become one of the premier facilities in MLS instead of a medrocre high-school lookalike.

2) It's be a 60-65% Private Investment - 30-35% Public Funded stadium, meaning that the public would pay around $35 Million, which is still substantially less than the amount the public paid for the Texans, Astros, and Rockets' stadiums, plus the deal is being worked where no new taxes would be implimented.

3) The stadium would be located around the intersection of Texas and Dowling which is across 59 from Downtown, which would probably be the best soccer-primary stadium location in MLS.

4) It loks like the target for an announcement is before Christmas this year.

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Yeah, I think their original plan was for a 70 millions stadium that seats around 22K, but then the last few games at Robertson ended having over 30K in attendance, so now the plan is for 25,000. I can't wait to see designs for this thing, it could be some boring suburban looking stadium like in Dallas, or hopefully something nice like they're building for DC United.

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ABC 13 had a report earlier tonight giving an update on stadium talks (the video's also on their website). Putting that together with KHOU stadium report earlier this week, here's the updated details as to what's cooking:

1) The stadium would now be a $100 Million-25,000 seater instead of a $60-$80 Million project. It sounds like it could become one of the premier facilities in MLS instead of a medrocre high-school lookalike.

2) It's be a 60-65% Private Investment - 30-35% Public Funded stadium, meaning that the public would pay around $35 Million, which is still substantially less than the amount the public paid for the Texans, Astros, and Rockets' stadiums, plus the deal is being worked where no new taxes would be implimented.

3) The stadium would be located around the intersection of Texas and Dowling which is across 59 from Downtown, which would probably be the best soccer-primary stadium location in MLS.

4) It loks like the target for an announcement is before Christmas this year.

I have no problem with a small portion of the money needed to build the stadium coming from the public... if we can pay to build stadiums for our other teams who lose we should be able to help pay for our team that wins championships! A stadium on the other side of 59 from Downtown would look awsome... it would really help to improve that part of town which has been slowly improving over the past few years. Houston is being really smart in building stadiums in and around Downtown... not to bash Dallas or anything but it would suck to have stadiums that aren't even in the city like their soccer stadium (in Frisco) and their new football stadium (in Arlington).

Edit...

Right after I typed this up I came across this article....

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5315872.html

This says Mayor White doesn't want to use public funds... I guess we will see.

Edited by HtownWxBoy
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I have no problem with a small portion of the money needed to build the stadium coming from the public... if we can pay to build stadiums for our other teams who lose we should be able to help pay for our team that wins championships! A stadium on the other side of 59 from Downtown would look awsome... it would really help to improve that part of town which has been slowly improving over the past few years. Houston is being really smart in building stadiums in and around Downtown... not to bash Dallas or anything but it would suck to have stadiums that aren't even in the city like their soccer stadium (in Frisco) and their new football stadium (in Arlington).

Edit...

Right after I typed this up I came across this article....

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5315872.html

This says Mayor White doesn't want to use public funds... I guess we will see.

As I and others have pointed out in the Big Soccer thread earlier this morning, I am taking this Chronicle article with a grain of salt. The Chron goes as far as to quote the deputy chair of public works, a high-level source in these negotations, as saying that a deal could be reached in two weeks. Then they make, what on the surface, appears to be statements that contradict this quote. So much for that scoop....sould I be excited at the prospects of this deal or nervous that the two sides are really far apart? Way to clear things up Chronicle!

My choice? I choose to ignore the Chronicle article because, in the words on Dennis Green, "They (the Chronicle) are who we thought they were!" And I'm not gonna let them off the hook...

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The light rail is going to present some problems with this area for a Dynamo Stadium.

The current plan has lines running down Capitol and Rusk with a spur going up to where Harrisburg splits off Texas.

That means that the intersection of Texas and Dowling is probably out, specifically, and means that the stadium would have to go in north or south of those streets. They will need 4 to 6 contiguous blocks to fit it in. If it goes north you get pinched off by the existing heavy rail line. If you go south you start running into new townhouse development.

Not being able to the use the Astros parking lot and the presence of existing and future rail line makes the area a lot tighter.

They may be able to squeeze the stadium in there in the triangle between the existing rail line, Harrisburg, and Capitol. Not sure who owns what in that area.

Well consider this....

In Minneapolis, The Minnesota Twins are constructing their new 42,000 seat, 1 million square-foot ballpark on just EIGHT ACRES of land in Downtown Minneapolis.

So I think the Dynamo, the city, and architects can find a way to make this site work for a 25,000 seat-max stadium that probably be less then 750,000 square feet.

Edited by tigereye
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One of my problems with this is Luck's quote about "the preponderance of the money," whatever that is. A possible deal in two weeks but no idea how much they've got or are willing to pony up. So that they can negotiate the biggest chunk from the city as possible? I'm all for this team and a stadium getting built, but I hope Mayor White sticks to his guns--not with city money.

And just because we went down this road before with the other teams is no excuse for doing it again.

Edited by crunchtastic
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One of my problems with this is Luck's quote about "the preponderance of the money," whatever that is. A possible deal in two weeks but no idea how much they've got or are willing to pony up. So that they can negotiate the biggest chunk from the city as possilbe? I'm all for this team and a stadium getting built, but I hope Mayor White sticks to his guns--not with city money.

And just becasue we went down this road before with the other teams is no excuse for doing it again.

The sad part is that Dynamo deserve city money just as much as the other teams (and we decided that they deserved the taxpayer money because we voted for it); some of which recieved more city money than the entire cost of the Dynamo stadium proposal. Championships and "favorite-sport" arguements aside, the team is now very much a presence in Houston's community as the other teams, and the fanbase is strong enough with Houston and other MLS teams to where they could bring a lot of money back into Houston through tourism.

If anything, I'd like to see the Dynamo stadium followed up by a major redevelopment in Chinatown/Warehouse district via better streets, more incentives for residential development to go along with the current construction in the area, perhaps a new firestation, etc..

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The sad part is that Dynamo deserve city money just as much as the other teams (and we decided that they deserved the taxpayer money because we voted for it); some of which recieved more city money than the entire cost of the Dynamo stadium proposal. Championships and "favorite-sport" arguements aside, the team is now very much a presence in Houston's community as the other teams, and the fanbase is strong enough with Houston and other MLS teams to where they could bring a lot of money back into Houston through tourism.

If anything, I'd like to see the Dynamo stadium followed up by a major redevelopment in Chinatown/Warehouse district via better streets, more incentives for residential development to go along with the current construction in the area, perhaps a new firestation, etc..

Maybe we should examine what merits a team of "deserving" a stadium.

Your argument is they have a good presence in the community, etc; everything related to that. They've been here two years and won two championships. What happens when they stink? Will they have the same presence and support, and still "deserve" that stadium?

Do they do pretty well in corporate sells?

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I'm one of the few sports fans who apparently takes the hard line on this. Privately owned team, privately funded stadium. Simple as that. Whether a team 'deserves' a stadium or not should be irrelevant. But that's precisely how voters were manipulated into believing that funding stadia with their tax dollars was a good thing.

I have yet to see any respectable stats on how the city benefits financially from the halo effect of simply having the team in a new home.

Now, once the stadium is built, then I agree, we may have an excellent opportunity for the wise use of city funds for re-development in the area around the stadium.

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I'm one of the few sports fans who apparently takes the hard line on this. Privately owned team, privately funded stadium. Simple as that. Whether a team 'deserves' a stadium or not should be irrelevant. But that's precisely how voters were manipulated into believing that funding stadia with their tax dollars was a good thing.

I have yet to see any respectable stats on how the city benefits financially from the halo effect of simply having the team in a new home.

Now, once the stadium is built, then I agree, we may have an excellent opportunity for the wise use of city funds for re-development in the area around the stadium.

Has there ever been a city that didn't contribute to building a major sports team venue? Just wondering.

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I hope that there is some common sense used about this deal. The city/Mayor White should be open minded and consider the benefits.

hmm let's see. the toyota center garage is losing 1.5 million/month. yeah that sounds like a good deal. oliver luck was in charge of the HSA when reliant was built. the county had to borrow funds from the toll road system to meet their payments. yeah that sounds like a good deal too.

Edited by musicman
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I'm one of the few sports fans who apparently takes the hard line on this. Privately owned team, privately funded stadium. Simple as that. Whether a team 'deserves' a stadium or not should be irrelevant. But that's precisely how voters were manipulated into believing that funding stadia with their tax dollars was a good thing.

How do you feel about, say a big company wanting to build a big distribution center in the area that will add X number of jobs, adding X number of dollars to the economy, and X dollars of extra property tax value, but they need the city to improve access, add stop lights, improve the utility infranstructure, or else they will have to build elsewhere outside the city?

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