Shell Energy Stadium

[MexAmerican_Moose]

build it in the burbs with another city's money or build it in the warehouse district with private funds

[tigereye]

Time to shake this thread up with some news and a lil "inside info!"

First off, the news end of things.....

Pearland Stadium - TheFacts.com

Pearland Stadium - Chron.com

Webster Stadium - Chron.com

Now remember this line....this might point into what direction probably has the most likelyhood fo becoming the next home of the Dynamo.

"The other three cities being eyed are Houston, Sugar Land and Webster, team president Oliver Luck said. The team would like to make a decision on the location of its new stadium by April or May. The Dynamo already is doing preliminary engineering on possible sites, Luck said. That work has not occurred in Webster or Pearland."

So essentially the Dynamo are already doing preliminary engineering on sites in Houston and Sugar Land. To me, the fact that they are doing work on these sites says the Dynamo believe these two sites have the strongest potiential in becoming the future home of the Dynamo. Personally, I believe there would be too many political obstacles to overcome in getting a deal in Sugar Land. So this leads me to believe the Dynamo have a deal in the workings here in Houston.

This is where "my info" comes into play.

Once upon a time, Sylvia Garcia upset many Dynamo fans by making a stink over the team's original name, Houston 1836, thus forcing them to change to the Dynamo. Now she apparently is trying to make amends....well actually she's just using the Dynamo to make a certain pet project of her's, a reality. That pet project is the under-preforming 150 acre Gus Wortham Golf Course, which she has been trying to convert into a massive all-sports facility to better-serve the Hispanic community its located in, possilby revitalizing it. Coincidently, her vision has always included soccer fields. This project stems from her belief that the golf course doesn't best serve inner-city youths and that this all-sports park would possibly funnel youths away from the gangs that plague the area, this revitalizing the area. In the past, Garcia has gone as far as to meet with city and county officials. The Dynamo's vision is not just for a soccer stadium, rather a soccer park that surrounds the stadium with soccer fields, like Pizza Hut Park in Frisco, TX. This concept coincidently fits perfect with Garcia's visions for the future of the Gus Wortham Golf Course property. And now apparently, these two parties are working together to make both of their visions, become reality.

So barring Garcia going "flip" on the Dynamo again, look for inner-city revitalization on the city's East End in the form of Dynamo Soccer Park....which might include a plaza retail developement as well. If all goes well, look for the team to hold true to their plans and make an announcement in late March or early April, coinciding with the kick-off of the 2007 MLS season.

More info as it comes in.....

Edited January 27, 2007 by tigereye

[DJ V Lawrence]

(2500 Cool Points Awarded to Tigereye. Keep up the good work, yo!!)

I think a stadium on the Gus Wortham site would be a great success. It's in close proximity to Downtown (Just a straight drive on Polk), the area could use a revitalization, and it's in Houston.

-A stadium for Pearland or Webster may be a success for those cities, but I think would become a failure for Dynamo. They'd have to settle for a stadium post-Beckham that has only 3000 seats more than the Rockets in order to hope they could sell it out, and their merchandise and marketing potential would be minimal.

-Sugarland wouldn't be as bad, but they'd probably still have to settle for around a 22,000 stadium that wouldn't be as occupied as one within Houston.

For Houston's sake, I hope we get a 27-35,000 stadium within close proximity to Houston's CBD. East End is actually a pretty good location: an area close to Downtown that could use a major revitalization. The thought of having Dynamo's practice fields there isn't a bad one, but I hope there's an urban development plan also involving the stadium around Polk and Harrison. Say Houston successfully got an NHL team; Dynamo stadium could be the main big-concert stadium/arena for when Toyota Center were not available. At East End's proximity, we could sell out at 30,000+, have the highest seating capacity of all MLS, and build Dynamo into the superclub prestigue.

Here's another idea for Houston sports. Pearland and Webster would like more sports and entertainment within their communities. Why not make a pitch to the Houston Texans and Dynamo for their practice facilities? Webster could have Dynamo practice fields for MLS or international opponents, while Dynamo practiced at East End. Also, Pearland could make a pitch for the Texans to eventually build their practice facilities there since McNair has said in the past that their current location may not be permanent. Both would bring so much free press to both cities.

[tigereye]

(2500 Cool Points to DJ V Lawrence for giving me props)

And IIRC, wouldn't Metro's Southeast BRT would run on Harrisburg past the stadium....

Edited January 27, 2007 by tigereye

[MexAmerican_Moose]

(2500 Cool Points to DJ V Lawrence for giving me props)

And IIRC, wouldn't Metro's Southeast BRT would run on Harrisburg past the stadium....

yeah, the golf course is one block south of Harrisburg, so it would be a pretty good location...i used to live near the Golf Course and it looked empty most of the time, so this sounds like a good idea.....there is a problem though, what about all of the soccer moms and their kids? don't you think that they will shy away from the Barrios and be scared of the place?

[Subdude]

I think a Dynamo stadium at the Gus Wortham site would be great! I second the cool points!

It's close to downtown and would be a nice boost for the East End.

there is a problem though, what about all of the soccer moms and their kids? don't you think that they will shy away from the Barrios and be scared of the place?

This neighborhood is hardly the barrio. We can't just have all development in the suburbs because some people live their lives trembling in fear of what lies inside the loop. Also, it is a lot more central than places like Sugar Land and Pearland. We don't want to have to have everyone commute for an hour to go see a game (except obviously for the people who already live out there).

I'm thinking a soccer game at Wortham park followed by dinner at Telephone Thai. Life would be good!

[brerrabbit]

Sad in a way that everybody is so quick to give up the golf course in favor of a soccer complex. I know the city owned facility has gotten run down and lacks maintinence but as we look to improve Houston, lets also remember that the preservation of certain areas of town are just important to many on these boards. Gus Worthem is the original Houston Country Club and one of the oldest courses in the City of Houston. My fondest wish has always been that someone or some group would work to bring the beauty of the course and preserve the historic value of it rather than just bulldoze it on our way to the future. I watched as they destroyed another golf course when I was 11 and did not understand the significance of it at the time, but Barnett Stadium and a HISD bus barn sit on what used to be a beautiful course and given the choice of the two I'll take the golf course.

[Houston19514]

Sad in a way that everybody is so quick to give up the golf course in favor of a soccer complex. I know the city owned facility has gotten run down and lacks maintinence but as we look to improve Houston, lets also remember that the preservation of certain areas of town are just important to many on these boards. Gus Worthem is the original Houston Country Club and one of the oldest courses in the City of Houston. My fondest wish has always been that someone or some group would work to bring the beauty of the course and preserve the historic value of it rather than just bulldoze it on our way to the future. I watched as they destroyed another golf course when I was 11 and did not understand the significance of it at the time, but Barnett Stadium and a HISD bus barn sit on what used to be a beautiful course and given the choice of the two I'll take the golf course.

Ditto those thoughts, but I also like the idea of the Dynamo Stadium at that location (a close second to the location by MMP). Maybe they could reduce the size of the golf course (and thus reduce the money requird for maintenance) to make room for the stadium? Maybe include a revamping and upgrading of the smaller golf course as part of the package for the stadium. There, everyone should be happy now. ;-)

Edited January 28, 2007 by Houston19514

[DJ V Lawrence]

yeah, the golf course is one block south of Harrisburg, so it would be a pretty good location...i used to live near the Golf Course and it looked empty most of the time, so this sounds like a good idea.....there is a problem though, what about all of the soccer moms and their kids? don't you think that they will shy away from the Barrios and be scared of the place?

I don't think Dynamo would suffer an attendance loss if Gus Wortham were the location. That being said, stadium or no stadium, I'm all for an East End revitalization. There's lots of potential there. I'd like to see projects that help build the economy for those living in that area. A world-class stadium and soccer fields there would be a major boost, but it shouldn't be the only thing done. There should also be plans in place to revamp all of Polk and Harrisburg from Gus Wortham to HW59 (downtown). Perhaps urban redevelopment up and down both streets that look great and are affordable. Kinda like Midtown's developments, but with a different architectural flare. Have them enhance the flavor of East End. I think Dynamo, East End, and all of Houston would win if that happened.

Sad in a way that everybody is so quick to give up the golf course in favor of a soccer complex. I know the city owned facility has gotten run down and lacks maintinence but as we look to improve Houston, lets also remember that the preservation of certain areas of town are just important to many on these boards. Gus Worthem is the original Houston Country Club and one of the oldest courses in the City of Houston. My fondest wish has always been that someone or some group would work to bring the beauty of the course and preserve the historic value of it rather than just bulldoze it on our way to the future. I watched as they destroyed another golf course when I was 11 and did not understand the significance of it at the time, but Barnett Stadium and a HISD bus barn sit on what used to be a beautiful course and given the choice of the two I'll take the golf course.

I've driven by Gus Wortham, and it's a nice looking course. If there's low occupancy there though, I don't see any loss if it's replaced with another significant sports complex that would bring more people and money to Houston and East End. There's plenty more golf courses being built in and around Houston that are also really good quality. If Gus Wortham were home to the Houston Open, I'd feel differently, but replacing that particular course and revitalilizing East End works much more for Houston than Dynamo moving to the suburbs.

This neighborhood is hardly the barrio. We can't just have all development in the suburbs because some people live their lives trembling in fear of what lies inside the loop. Also, it is a lot more central than places like Sugar Land and Pearland. We don't want to have to have everyone commute for an hour to go see a game (except obviously for the people who already live out there).

I agree. I don't consider it a barrio either, but I think new developments there that rivaled SugarLand's Town Centre for pedestrian friendly shopping East End-style would be awesome.

[ricco67]

While I would prefer to put it near downtown, I think putting it relatively close to the golf course would be a boon to the area, considering that's also where the Light Rail/BRT will be placed. Get rid of that nasty strip mall and that bank with a mixed use first floor and it could supply income to the Dynamo during the off season!

I'm sure the golf players would get in a round or two before a game and walk to the park if they wanted to. It would make an excellent day to hide from the wives...

err....give the wives a break to pushing them out the door that is...depending how you look at it.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Yo, where exactly is the Warehouse District in relation to East End? (Major apologies. Haven't been back in Houston long enough obviously...)

[Guest Marty]

Yo, where exactly is the Warehouse District in relation to East End? (Major apologies. Haven't been back in Houston long enough obviously...)

I think it's around the Live Oak @ Rusk street area.

[ricco67]

I think it's around the Live Oak @ Rusk street area.

Actually, it's closer along the lines of Capital/Canal where the Franklin tunnel starts.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Actually, it's closer along the lines of Capital/Canal where the Franklin tunnel starts.

Is it anywhere directly between East End and Downtown, or does East End begin right across 59 from downtown?

[DJ V Lawrence]

For those who don't know, here's Gus Wortham's location (the possible Dynamo stadium location idea brought up earlier...

[DJ V Lawrence]

Some new stadium news from the Houston Chronicle...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4532429.html

The two major possibilities for the new stadium location would be Gus Wortham Park, or in/around Downtown. IMO, both are great plans. More people would probably utilize the soccer facilities on Gus Wortham than the amount of people currently playing golf there. In/around Downtown would also be perfect, though their practice field could probably be another location.

I hope the golfers there don't make too big a deal on that deal, because that community would SERIOUSLY benefit more with the stadium there than the golf course that not too many that live around there utilize. Like I've said before, I'm down with the revitalization of East End and Warehouse District, stadium or no stadium. Warehouse District stands out to me as the place where they should pursue, but Gus Wortham would be great too.

[musicman]

the infrastructure would be horrendous. i can just imagine the traffic jams on wayside.

[Houston19514]

The Chron article was poorly written (now, there's a surprise!) but they sort of accidentally hinted that at least one of the possibilities is having the stadium downtown with the practice field/community soccer field complex at at Wortham. Does anyone know how much land such a complex would typically require? I hope I am not the only one who has thought of just downsizing the golf course and adding the soccer complex, rather than eliminating the golf course altogether.

I've done a little research since my initial post. As the article says, the Wortham Golf Course property is 150 acrse. The entire Pizza Hut Park complex in Frisco is 117 acres. Removing the stadium from that complex (and building it downtown next to MMP) would appear to cut almost 40 acres from the complex. So it would appear that a soccer complex similar to the Pizza Hut Park complex (sans stadium) would only need about 1/2 the Wortham property. Downsize and upgrade the golf course and build the soccer complex at Wortham with the stadium downtown (connected to the Wortham complex via the East End Metro GRT line.) Everyone wins!

Edited February 7, 2007 by Houston19514

[Guest danax]

the infrastructure would be horrendous. i can just imagine the traffic jams on wayside.

Not to mention the noise. I would think the residents would mobilize to stop the stadium, and might do the same to preserve the golf course.

There's so much green buffer around there; Wortham, Villa Matel, Forest Park Cemetary, Mason Park......., with Wortham being the weak link. It's all well worth keeping if possible.

[feufoma]

I'm all for East End revitalization. I've had limited exposure to the area but I can't see placing the stadium there for some of the reasons mentioned (lack of synergy with DT; bad infrastructure; no real PT access; noise; crime?). Put the stadium DT and a soccer complex on (some) of the site and revamp the course. I'd like to attend some games but I'm not sure that I'd like to attend games at that location (and I live DT).

[Serrano]

This is an aerial view. The land looks bigger than MMP.

[DJ V Lawrence]

The Chron article was poorly written (now, there's a surprise!) but they sort of accidentally hinted that at least one of the possibilities is having the stadium downtown with the practice field/community soccer field complex at at Wortham. Does anyone know how much land such a complex would typically require? I hope I am not the only one who has thought of just downsizing the golf course and adding the soccer complex, rather than eliminating the golf course altogether.

I've done a little research since my initial post. As the article says, the Wortham Golf Course property is 150 acrse. The entire Pizza Hut Park complex in Frisco is 117 acres. Removing the stadium from that complex (and building it downtown next to MMP) would appear to cut almost 40 acres from the complex. So it would appear that a soccer complex similar to the Pizza Hut Park complex (sans stadium) would only need about 1/2 the Wortham property. Downsize and upgrade the golf course and build the soccer complex at Wortham with the stadium downtown (connected to the Wortham complex via the East End Metro GRT line.) Everyon wins!

I agree. Wortham would be a great place for a soccer complex (without the actual stadium), downsized golf course, and baseball fields. I think the primary focus from East End's residence would be the question of how the Wortham location could most benefit East End, and I would imagine that would be the best bet.

Downtown would be awesome for soccer matches, but I would imagine the land costs to be high. I think the team and city should put more money on the infrastructure than the land within Downtown.

Warehouse District (across from MMP/59) Should be pushed by the city. Have it connected to the Wortham site. It's the most professional and most logical location. The stadium could have much higher attendance and significance there than any suburb. It would have two major parks within proximity; The Wortham site, and the new Downtown park.

If I were them, here's what I would do:

-Lower the stadium below ground level to cut infrastructure costs

-Build a glass roof over the seats as an amenity to make the stadium mixed-use for concerts and such without weather being a factor. That way, the stadium could be an alternative to Toyota Center for concerts if it becomes home to the NHL. I would suggest a retractable roof, but it would seriously higher the cost.

Here's what I'm thinkin' of:

-I would still design the stadium so it had a great view of the Houston skyline at a goal-zone, because the view is priceless.

-Instead of the city spending a lot of money on the stadium itself, ask for tax-exeptions instead of funding the stadium itself, and ask the city to use the saved money to put it into the community around the stadium (ie. mixed-use developments around the stadium, schools, roads, the Wortham soccer complex, etc.) That way, the land on the stadium would rise in appreciation, and should the league not succeed or the team want to move in another 20-30 years, the city/team could sell the land.

-Make it between 30-35,000 seats (all together including the suites, club boxes, etc.). We'd have the market and proximity to sell-out with the sport growing as it is. They averaged a little over 18,000 last season, and that was before Beckham signed, SuperLiga was announced, the 19 nationally televised game, the championship, and the number of players we have being named to three national teams (America, Canada, and Venezuela).

BTW, I found this on bigsoccer.com...

This may be the plans for the old Astroworld site. Probably no longer considered as a stadium home. Reliant Park itself, however, may still be in discussion.

Edited February 7, 2007 by DJ V Lawrence

[The Great Hizzy!]

There's plenty of land near MMP and the infrastructure is better suited. I'd imagine that quite a few residents in Forest Hill, Idylwood and Country Club Estates would prefer not to have the potential traffic headaches in their neighborhoods.

And...

Jeez, that's quite the ambitious dream for the old Astroworld site.

[musicman]

There's plenty of land near MMP and the infrastructure is better suited. I'd imagine that quite a few residents in Forest Hill, Idylwood and Country Club Estates would prefer not to have the potential traffic headaches in their neighborhoods.

Where is "plenty of land" near MMP besides the parking lot? to lose the parking lot on the other side of MMP would be a bad thing. then to add yet another stadium? nightmare!

[The Great Hizzy!]

I was thinking west of both 59 and MMP instead of east.

[ricco67]

How about this:

Build the stadium there, along with other facilities, upgrade the surrounding infrastructure a bit.

Have a first level multi-use structure with stores/whatever on the first level with a small park nearby with a built-in police substation. It can supplement the substation Near Harrisburg @ 67 with storage for vehicles and maybe a small jail (which would come in handy for the police to hold for game days as well)...but here's the kicker:

Have the Dynamo help pay for a small portion of the line to go by there, or maybe for a "seasonal" station like they have in St. Louis.

[musicman]

I was thinking west of both 59 and MMP instead of east.

closing more streets would not be acceptable..

[Dan the Man]

I would like to see the golf course revitalized with better landscaping, a new clubhouse, and a more attractive fence. That golf course is one of that East End's best assets - it is an attractive, quiet greenspace that serves to lessen the chaotic nature of the city around it, while also serving as a reminder of the area's history. As the East End gentrifies, I'm sure that the course will see a lot more use by the new local residents, especially with upgrades. Look at Herman Park as an example; that course was also seeing dwindling usage, so the city revitalized it. Now, it is used quite heavily.

Replacing the Gus Wortham golf course with soccer fields will only bring more people, traffic, and noise to the East End. None of these are seen as desirable to the area, and they could be enough to thwart the revitalization effort that has already begun in Idylwood and Country Club Place. I wouldn't even consider buying a house in those neighborhoods if there was a soccer practice facility next door.

[ProHouston]

I would like to see the golf course revitalized with better landscaping, a new clubhouse, and a more attractive fence. That golf course is one of that East End's best assets - it is an attractive, quiet greenspace that serves to lessen the chaotic nature of the city around it, while also serving as a reminder of the area's history. As the East End gentrifies, I'm sure that the course will see a lot more use by the new local residents, especially with upgrades. Look at Herman Park as an example; that course was also seeing dwindling usage, so the city revitalized it. Now, it is used quite heavily.

Replacing the Gus Wortham golf course with soccer fields will only bring more people, traffic, and noise to the East End. None of these are seen as desirable to the area, and they could be enough to thwart the revitalization effort that has already begun in Idylwood and Country Club Place. I wouldn't even consider buying a house in those neighborhoods if there was a soccer practice facility next door.

I agree with others that the stadium should be downtown with the practice fields at Gus Wortham. How could it be a bad thing to have more families spending more time at Gus Wortham? I wouldn't see this as a detriment to the park, I would see it as a benefit for the city.

[musicman]

I agree with others that the stadium should be downtown with the practice fields at Gus Wortham. How could it be a bad thing to have more families spending more time at Gus Wortham? I wouldn't see this as a detriment to the park, I would see it as a benefit for the city.

if the City would maintain all parks property, that would be just as beneficial. they tend to maintain some better than others.