Shell Energy Stadium

[RedScare]

easy...baseball and hockey.

Can't remember the last time I watched either minor league baseball or hockey (or WNBA, or NASCAR or arena football or golf or bowling). But, that's the great thing about America. You are free to watch whatever sport you like, including those sports that have been ruined by astronomical salaries.

[Trae]

Like these damn NBA and NFL players opting out because they want more money to "feed their kids". I really hate that excuse. These guys have millions (tens of millions) in the bank, but can't "feed their kids".

[HtownWxBoy]

Sure...I will bring it up next time I have one of the Dynamo reserves bring my car up from valet. Yes you are a Major League Player. Here is your tip. lol

When you have to make up stories... well, just says a lot.

[shady 75]

When you have to make up stories... well, just says a lot.

Lets take away the money argument. Just to drive my point home lets discuss why good players leave to play overseas and the overseas clubs send us the older washed up players. I have actually watched enough soccer to know what would be major and what would be minor. I did live in Europe for a time and let me tell you the top team in MLS could not sniff the jock of a decent European club. That is a fact. It would be the same as the real NFL playing NFL Europe....just no comparison.

[HtownWxBoy]

Lets take away the money argument. Just to drive my point home lets discuss why good players leave to play overseas and the overseas clubs send us the older washed up players. I have actually watched enough soccer to know what would be major and what would be minor. I did live in Europe for a time and let me tell you the top team in MLS could not sniff the jock of a decent European club. That is a fact. It would be the same as the real NFL playing NFL Europe....just no comparison.

Well soccer is fairly new to the U.S... at least Major League Soccer... give it some time.

[shady 75]

Can't remember the last time I watched either minor league baseball or hockey (or WNBA, or NASCAR or arena football or golf or bowling). But, that's the great thing about America. You are free to watch whatever sport you like, including those sports that have been ruined by astronomical salaries.

agreed...I just think when you say the term Major League, it should be a real term and not something that is actually not true. All of the Major sports in the US are actually the best in their profession. The MLS is not even in the top 5 soccer leagues in the world so calling themselves Major is a farce.

[Trae]

They are major by US standards. There.

[HtownWxBoy]

They are major by US standards. There.

There ya go... I agree... when we say "Major" I don't think we are comparing to the rest of the world... we are saying it's a "US Major League Team".

[Subdude]

13 had a brief blurb concerning the stadium. they stated that the mayor was irritated after receiving a letter from the soccer league. seems the league is having problems with the pace of the stadium negotiations. (stalled is the word used). the letter also said that if something doesn't happen, they will shop around in other cities.

Standard operating procedure I'm afraid. It's how the biz works now.

[RedScare]

agreed...I just think when you say the term Major League, it should be a real term and not something that is actually not true. All of the Major sports in the US are actually the best in their profession. The MLS is not even in the top 5 soccer leagues in the world so calling themselves Major is a farce.

When the other "major" league sports in the US stop using the term "World Champions", I'll listen to your argument. Until then, your argument is not credible, since the other "major" leagues are also using untrue terms.

[NewMND]

Standard operating procedure I'm afraid. It's how the biz works now.

Hopefully they can show some patience, we're trying to get a stadium built near downtown, there are lots of hoops to jump through. I'm sure if they wanted the stadium built in the suburbs, the deal would already be done and construction started. This will be worth the wait.

[musicman]

Private negotiations between city leaders and the Dynamo soccer franchise about a partnership to build a new stadium downtown spilled into the public Wednesday, when Mayor Bill White complained the team had tried to "pressure" him.

During a subsequent news conference to publicly assuage the mayor's concerns, team officials said the price tag on a new stadium had climbed to $105 million, up from the $80 million to $90 million previously estimated.

The rising cost estimate could make it even harder for both sides to come to an agreement on how much the city will contribute to get the stadium built.

In response to a generic question about the state of the negotiations, White told reporters that one of the team's owners recently showed him a letter from Major League Soccer urging a quick resolution to the negotiations. The letter, written by Commissioner Don Garber, hints at the possibility of moving the team from Houston if a stadium deal is not reached with the city.

"It is inconceivable that MLS will allow the team to continue playing as a secondary tenant in a college football facility, particularly after the league moved the team due to the challenges at San Jose State," Garber wrote. "While another relocation would be equally traumatic, we both must consider our options to ensure that the team has a path to economic success."

full article

[JJxvi]

Poor Bill White. I feel sorry for him and all the "pressure" being put on him.

[ProHouston]

I hate to tell Garber and the MLS, but they aren't on the same level as the NFL, NBA, and MLB. I like the MLS, but there is no way that they can hold a city "hostage" and expect us to bend over for them. They are just not a big enough deal here for a threat of relocation to be a bargaining chip.

They're getting free land, they need to step up and build their own stadium.

[KinkaidAlum]

Like these damn NBA and NFL players opting out because they want more money to "feed their kids". I really hate that excuse. These guys have millions (tens of millions) in the bank, but can't "feed their kids".

With the reputations many of the players (aptly named) have in EVERY CITY they travel to, they could be talking about hundreds of kids.

[Jax]

I hope we don't lose the Dynamo...

[lockmat]

Do these soccer stadiums usually have suites?

[Subdude]

I hate to tell Garber and the MLS, but they aren't on the same level as the NFL, NBA, and MLB. I like the MLS, but there is no way that they can hold a city "hostage" and expect us to bend over for them. They are just not a big enough deal here for a threat of relocation to be a bargaining chip.

They're getting free land, they need to step up and build their own stadium.

Yes, but from the viewpoint of the team there isn't much downside in threatening to leave. It isn't pretty to watch, but in the past it has generally proven a successful strategy. If Houston doesn't want to pony up there will be some town out there that will.

[MidtownCoog]

If Soccer were a sport I'd understand.

But it's not.

[Scott08]

Don't let the door hit them on the way out. I tried using all my measly powers to keep from using taxpayer dollars for the other stadiums (didn't work) but I'm hoping common sense will prevail on this one. If supplying the primo land is not enough let them go elsewhere. I've always equated this with some other company in the private sector ....like Shell Oil saying, " Houston, either build us a new office building or we're going to move to another city." Just wouldn't happen, how do the sport teams get by with it?

[pestofan]

Enough is enough! We have 2 perfectly good pro stadiums in Houston that can accomodate any future needs of a pro soccer franchise, Reliant and the Astrodome. I can understand why the Dynamo and Texans might have difficulty reaching an agreement to use Reliant, but there is no good reason not to fall back on the dome. The county is begging for a tenant and it would be far cheaper to upgrade and adapt then to build a new stadium downtown that would hinder traffic flow. I have yet to read a single good excuse for why the dome wouldn't work. The perfect chance for synergy, instead of wasting more money on team ego and questionable insider land deals. And to make it perfect, the sports' complex parking lot fronts 1836 South Loop! What a great place for a new entrance.

Though I might settle for converting the huge parking lot (just a few blocks east of the light-rail) at 1836 Old Spanish Trail into their stadium! 1836 Old Spanish Trail, an address with the added, uh, bonus, of offering something for everyone. Right, Carol Avocado? The team lost a lot of goodwill in this town when it caved to the usual professional victimhood race-card intimidators, they could win a lot of it back by solving the region's problem of what to do with the dome. Public sentiment is strongly in favor of such a win-win solution, what a masterstroke of PR it would be for the team, city, and county. Right now there is a strong anti-incumbent mood towards all levels of gov't based on the perception that little gets done, problems aren't being addressed, and far, far too much money is ineptly wasted. The dome isn't the most important issue we face, but this would be a simple and highly visible solution to counter those perceptions of gov't inefficiency and waste.

The Dynamo has their heart set on a brand new BMW, while we have Lexus that is already paid for and can easily be reconditioned. If the Dynamo insist on perfection, let 'em and their entitlement attitude go (to hell!)

Edited April 17, 2008 by pestofan

[Trae]

^^You must not know about size and how big MLS stadiums are. Reliant and the Astrodome are EASILY out of the question. That, and the Dynamo need their own stadium for more revenue and such.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Trae

[Flamingyak]

Enough is enough! We have 2 perfectly good pro stadiums in Houston that can accomodate any future needs of a pro soccer franchise, Reliant and the Astrodome. I can understand why the Dynamo and Texans might have difficulty reaching an agreement to use Reliant, but there is no good reason not to fall back on the dome. The county is begging for a tenant and it would be far cheaper to upgrade and adapt then to build a new stadium downtown that would hinder traffic flow. I have yet to read a single good excuse for why the dome wouldn't work. The perfect chance for synergy, instead of wasting more money on team ego and questionable insider land deals. And to make it perfect, the sports' complex parking lot fronts 1836 South Loop! What a great place for a new entrance.

Though I might settle for converting the huge parking lot (just a few blocks east of the light-rail) at 1836 Old Spanish Trail into their stadium! 1836 Old Spanish Trail, an address with the added, uh, bonus, of offering something for everyone. Right, Carol Avocado? The team lost a lot of goodwill in this town when it caved to the usual professional victimhood race-card intimidators, they could win a lot of it back by solving the region's problem of what to do with the dome. Public sentiment is strongly in favor of such a win-win solution, what a masterstroke of PR it would be for the team, city, and county. Right now there is a strong anti-incumbent mood towards all levels of gov't based on the perception that little gets done, problems aren't being addressed, and far, far too much money is ineptly wasted. The dome isn't the most important issue we face, but this would be a simple and highly visible solution to counter those perceptions of gov't inefficiency and waste.

The Dynamo has their heart set on a brand new BMW, while we have Lexus that is already paid for and can easily be reconditioned. If the Dynamo insist on perfection, let 'em and their entitlement attitude go (to hell!)

You're nuts. Do you have any idea how large the Astrodome and Reliant Stadium actually are? It would be downright depressing to force 20,000 fans into a facility that seats 80,000, has poor sightlines, etc...

Just, no.

[lockmat]

You're nuts. Do you have any idea how large the Astrodome and Reliant Stadium actually are? It would be downright depressing to force 20,000 fans into a facility that seats 80,000, has poor sightlines, etc...

Just, no.

How can sightlines for a football game which plays on pretty much the same exact field size be worse for soccer?

The real reason people don't wanna play soccer at Reliant or the Dome is for the same reasons the Spurs moved out of the Alamo Dome. Not because the seats were so bad, but b/c the 'ambiance' and atmosphere isn't what they want it to be. Everyone wants their own little stadium fit to their specs, and I'm fine with that as long as they don't expect everything to be given to them.

[Trae]

The Alamodome was too big for the Spurs. They had a NCAA-type setup.

[lockmat]

It wasn't the same setup that Reliant had. The seats were much better.

Edited April 17, 2008 by lockmat

[pestofan]

^^You must not know about size and how big MLS stadiums are. Reliant and the Astrodome are EASILY out of the question. That, and the Dynamo need their own stadium for more revenue and such.

Um, yeah kid, I'm quite familiar with the different dimensions for soccer, football, and baseball fields. After having been to probably close to 100 events at the 2 venues I also have a pretty good sense of their dimensions. Way back in architecture studios we learned a thing or two about the need for basic due diligence.

Look, I appreciate your enthusiam for Houston and all things related. Your seemingly non-stop spamming of every urban forum on the net with "Houston is the biggest, greatest, bestest!" cheerleading gets a bit tiring, though (Remember, homework is our friend.) Ever consider that maybe some of us who hold different opinions than you might actually have a background in the subject and perhaps know what we are talking about?

OK, back to the topic. Both stadiums have already hosted soccer games (I'm surprised that an expert like yourself wasn't aware of either that or Google.) For the dome, floor size is not a problem, even if they want wide sidelines they can simply eliminate the lowest rows of seats. And since one of the Dynamo's favorite excuse is that the dome seats too many and might not sellout, removing those seats helps reduce the capacity. Another way to mitigate that issue would be to glass in the upper deck into tons of suites. Lots of revenue potential there, and those that don't sell aren't really visible behind the glass so the place can look and feel 'full' with a lower attendance such as 30K or so. Creative advertising backdrops strategically placed could further replace seats and tighten the venue and increase the home noise advantage. Parking and congestion from hosting multiple events in the entire sports complex are issues, but not insurmountable. Control and amount of revenue is a question, but as long as the Dynamo is asking for public dollars it is subject to negotiation.

The biggest hindrance is MLS wanting a grass field. Certainly a reasonable requirement, but solved by installing a moveable field (or a sectional system) similar to what Phoenix deploys. In for game, out for growing. Very feasible if the county agrees to make the Dynamo the primary client of the dome.

So again, I've yet to hear a legitimate reason as to why the dome wouldn't work, only excuses that are pretty, um, "easily" shot down.

Edited April 17, 2008 by pestofan

[pestofan]

You're nuts. Do you have any idea how large the Astrodome and Reliant Stadium actually are? It would be downright depressing to force 20,000 fans into a facility that seats 80,000, has poor sightlines, etc...

Why yes, I do. The dome for football was around 55K. A glassed-in upper deck converted to suites, widened floor, and tightening by installing false walls towards the back 'corners' (yes, it is round by you can sort of square it off if they really want to reduce capacity and give a more intimate feel) could get the capacity down to around 30K + suites. Again, those measures would shrink the interior size and enhance the home court noise advantage, and even the old dome at half empty Oiler games was louder than the Mav's current AAC. So it isn't going to be a 'dead' atmosphere, far from it.

But if the Dynamo is so popular with Houstonians that we just must spend lots of tax dollars on them, shouldn't they be able to sell more than 20-30K for important games and rivalries? Seems like the Dynamo is arguing both sides of the issue.

[shady 75]

I applaud Mayor White for not caving in. In the US football, basketball and baseball are the sports that 90% of the population cares about. The other 10% fights it out between hockey, luge, ping pong, badmitton and soccer.

Edited April 18, 2008 by shady 75

[RedScare]

pesto, your initial statement is that "enough is enough", enough presumably being the amount of taxpayer money to be spent on sports stadiums. And, however enticing your design proposal for adaptive reuse of the Dome may be, you never even hint at the potential cost of redeveloping the Dome into an attractive 30,000 seat soccer venue, including removable grass trays, nor do you explain why this would be better for the Dynamo financially, a club whose president is a former head of the stadium committe.

My suspicion is that not only would the Dome be expensive for the Dynamo to operate, but the renovations would dwarf the city's cost in helping build a brand new soccer specific stadium. Care to hazard a guess as to what your idea might cost, and why that is a better use of our tax dollars?

I applaud Mayor White for not caving in. In the US football, basketball and baseball are the sports that 90% of the population cares about. The other 10% fights it out between hockey, luge, ping pong, badmitton and soccer.

Good point. Since only 10% care about soccer, and we spent $900 million on the stadiums for the sports that 90% of the population cares about, I propose that the City limit its investment on a soccer stadium to no more than $100 million.

Do you agree?