Jump to content

The Pointe At Bayou Bend: Affordable Housing At 800 Middle St.


BeerNut

Recommended Posts

53 minutes ago, Texasota said:

Clayton Homes is being demolished by TXDOT, and its residents are your neighbors too. 

 

Clayton homes is approximately 20% occupied because of Harvey. The others were given vouchers to move to other facilities due to damage done that was deemed not worth repairing. 

 

Theoretically Clayton Homes is a revolving door of people who just need a little bit of time to get back on their feet. They are my neighbors, but the people who will live in this new facility will not be the same people who are at Clayton Homes currently. I've lived in other areas in Houston and nowhere gets more of these type of developments than this area. Maybe Montrose, River Oaks or Uptown could use a few more voucher based facilities. 

 

 

 

Edited by I'm Not a Robot
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I totally agree with that, but this specific development is replacing something that's already nearby that's about to be demolished. 

 

It's also not like there's not plenty of market-rate construction going up in the area as well. The result could well end up being a strong mix of more expensive market-rate housing, workforce housing, and voucher-based affordable housing. That's something that absolutely should be emulated in the rest of the city.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree that Clayton Homes residents are our neighbors.... However, when you can track crime back to your neighbors home consistently, you may not be so eager to see them get a new home closer to you.

23 hours ago, I'm Not a Robot said:

 

 

I love your optimism but as your neighbor in the area I fear that the city had decided to just dump everything that the Heights or other more affluent areas has fought off into a very small area. This HHA property purchase was done as far as I can tell without a proper public hearing and I'm going to guess the city doesn't care much about it. This seems to be the norm in this direct vicinity. Hopefully once more powerful developers make their way to actually having to lease out structures built, they can get into the ear of the city because the citizens clearly cannot. I imagine that there will be some public push back on the building of this but it will eventually get done. 

 

I get the desire to ensure that the area doesn't push out people who have lived there for generations. This is empty land being built up tax free while our tax rate rivals the nicest areas in Houston. This kind of land could have been used for parks or something to beautify the area  especially as we see an implementation of the Buffalo Bayou Master Plan (there is a micro park at the silos being built in a tiny tract near this plot) and actually given back to an area that has been the most vulnerable to the affects of industry.  

 

I genuinely appreciate your optimism but the only people who should be happy about this happening are the developers who are profiting due to contracts with the city to build tax free land and count it as a write off and the cry babies in the other neighborhoods who would protest for years if this came to their street. 

 

 

Unfortunately there was not a reasonable voice in the Buffalo Bayou East Sector Planning session and the constant feedback they got from 5th Ward residents north of I-10 was "We need affordable housing". So this is what you get when people with too much time on their hands get involved in local politics and people working 40-60 hours a week dont have the time to attend these 3pm meetings on a tuesday.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Texasota said:

I totally agree with that, but this specific development is replacing something that's already nearby that's about to be demolished. 

 

It's also not like there's not plenty of market-rate construction going up in the area as well. The result could well end up being a strong mix of more expensive market-rate housing, workforce housing, and voucher-based affordable housing. That's something that absolutely should be emulated in the rest of the city.

 

I wouldn't call it a strong mix. Basically you have expensive market rate property, and low-income / section 8 housing with almost nothing in between; I would venture to say that inter-mingling between the two groups is nearly non-existent in the neighborhood.

 

Maybe if they can manage to get workforce housing right it would bridge that gap and create a stronger mix, but with the proposed workforce focused housing being at least partly in the path of the proposed re-route I wouldn't be surprised if the developer just wanted to make a quick buck by propping up some cheaply built apartments under the disguise of workforce housing that TXDOT would be forced to pay more for to acquire and demolish shortly after. I know it's a bit cynical and conspiracy-theory sounding, but HHA hasn't exactly been forthcoming and engaging with the surrounding community in the lower Fifth Ward and the East End.

 

Personally I'd like to see more effort to bridge the gap by offering affordable options to own homes / condos to lower-mid income individuals rather than pretty much relocating an old school project like Clayton homes a couple of blocks down, to an even worse location connected to only low capacity neighborhood streets rather than a thoroughfare.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are a variety of ways to achieve affordable living availability - concentrating it all in one spot creates as many issues as it seeks to solve. Integrate the same number of affordable units a few at a time into multiple market-rate complexes and the concerns would evaporate. City elders are taking a lazy approach and the existing community and future residents will both suffer for it in the long term. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On 4/25/2020 at 9:44 PM, HOUTEX said:

There are a variety of ways to achieve affordable living availability - concentrating it all in one spot creates as many issues as it seeks to solve. Integrate the same number of affordable units a few at a time into multiple market-rate complexes and the concerns would evaporate. City elders are taking a lazy approach and the existing community and future residents will both suffer for it in the long term. 

 

The latest lawsuit had a setback in court yesterday. I agree with HOUTEX, these projects should be smaller in scope and more spread out throughout the city. The Heights had a similar project and they fought it and won. It upsets me the East End has become a dumping ground for affordable housing. If it is great for the community, why is River Oaks not full of these projects. Politicos take advantage because this neighborhood is full of working class, who sometimes lack the political engagement, and a middle class that is not able to attend meetings at 10am or 3pm during a weekday (as someelse pointed above).

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/Judge-blocks-renewed-effort-to-halt-East-End-15238914.php

Edited by EastEndHeritage
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, burt said:

The FBI now appears to be poking around. 

 

https://dolcefino.com/2020/04/30/fbi-investigating-city-housing-deals/

 

What does this have to do with this particular development (East River) though.

 

I know there is a lot of open land out here and a lot of different potential projects that could get started including public housing that the city is looking to do, but can we possibly split that off into another topic?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, EastEndHeritage said:

 

 

 dumping ground for affordable housing.

Affordable housing has to go somewhere, and part of the affordable part is low cost land.

You would prefer that the East End stay all shotgun shacks and 1930's apartment buildings? That's what y'all got in the 70's when they stopped the Harrisburg Freeway

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, burt said:

The FBI now appears to be poking around. 

 

https://dolcefino.com/2020/04/30/fbi-investigating-city-housing-deals/

 

It's generally a good idea to take everything Mr. Dolcefino says with a grain of salt. That's not to say he isn't "correct" at times, but he's been in some fairly serious trouble in libel cases where he was espousing some stuff about some public figures, and let me tell you, winning a libel case as a public figure is pretty damn hard.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/1/2020 at 4:23 PM, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

Affordable housing has to go somewhere, and part of the affordable part is low cost land.

You would prefer that the East End stay all shotgun shacks and 1930's apartment buildings? That's what y'all got in the 70's when they stopped the Harrisburg Freeway

This is a hollow argument. The presented "choices" aren't binary. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/1/2020 at 3:52 PM, JBTX said:

 

It's generally a good idea to take everything Mr. Dolcefino says with a grain of salt. That's not to say he isn't "correct" at times, but he's been in some fairly serious trouble in libel cases where he was espousing some stuff about some public figures, and let me tell you, winning a libel case as a public figure is pretty damn hard.

 

Agreed !  Although I generally support the legitimate mainstream media reporters out there in the world (and they are doing an incredible job lately in the face of so many attacks by other entities), Mr. Dolcefino comes across as very arrogant and self aggrandizing more and more the older he gets.  I remember when he was pretty young in the early 90's and was a fairly decent facts only reporter.  Now?  Not so much...

 

But, I really hope this KBR site is able to progress soon and we get some nice decent, clean and attractive development on the far east end.  This will bring more and more people out there and make it more of "the place to live" in Houston, instead of always further and further away from the industrial areas.  Perhaps, this project could serve as further catalyst to cleaning up and greening up the areas to the east so as to negate some of the very ill effects from the refineries not too far away and in plain view of downtown. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So does anyone know how this will impact home prices? Currently shopping around and love the East River project of course, but now with the NRP project going in I'm wondering if I buy a house for say 350k on the North side of the bayou, which seems to be the average around there, is it immediately going to drop once the NRP opens up or is East River going to offset that?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi pm91. 

I am speaking from a homeowner's perspective, in the neighborhood that your are talking about (East Bayou District).  At the core of this neighborhood is Kennedy Place, a 108unit/224bedroom, Houston Housing Authority, low income housing project.  This whole neighborhood, as you see it now, has grown up around this.  There are literally, hundreds of new homes surrounding this development on all sides.  Property values have sky-rocketed since the purchase my new townhome in 2013, and I attribute it to the potential of the East River property, as well as proximity to downtown and easy access to highways and all central city neighborhoods (Montrose, Heights, Midtown, EADO, etc...).

 

So, the NRP project you are speaking of, is across the Bayou, on the southern bank . Much of this is designed as a replacement for Clayton Homes, which is currently being demolished and will be fully eliminated. THE NRP (which was actually further from the East Bayou District) will have little effect or interaction on this neighborhood.  The closer proposed development is the OJALA mixed income development which 304units are proposed along with hundreds of market rate units. It's a large piece of property.  Details are sketchy (and that is a concern) but it is easy to see how this could become a development of more than 1000 new units, as what has been indicated.  In my opinion, what will effect the neighborhood more, is the additional residents that this development is likely to bring, which will bring more retail (to East River and elsewhere), which is desperately needed. 

 

As I see it, The enormous size of East River, the amenities and residents it will bring, the ongoing development of he the Bayou/BBP will far overshadow a few hundred additional low income residents. 

 

Reference:

http://www.housingforhouston.com/public-housing/housing-developments/kennedy-place.aspx

https://www.saveeastend.com/

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Naviguessor said:

So, the NRP project you are speaking of, is across the Bayou, on the southern bank . Much of this is designed as a replacement for Clayton Homes, which is currently being demolished and will be fully eliminated. THE NRP (which was actually further from the East Bayou District) will have little effect or interaction on this neighborhood.  


I think the NRP development will have one major effect for people on the north side of the Bayou—a significant increase in vehicle traffic. With the way the streets are laid out in that area, the most likely access to and from the NRP property will be Kennedy St. to Jensen. From there, I think you will see a significant amount of traffic head up and down Jensen, which provides direct access to I-10, I-45, and 59 with less hassle then other alternatives. 

 

Does anyone have more details about the unit mix at NRP? I’ve seen varying details from different sources but nothing consistent.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are currently about 250 households in the immediate area. HHA is planning on placing 926 units (many of which are low income units) on the NRP site. This is about a 370% increase in the density of the neighborhood, with absolutely no intention or plan to upgrade the infrastructure. Furthermore, taking the Ojala and NRP properties off the tax roll will put further strain on existing residents already burdened with rising taxes. 

Capture.PNG

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, thedistrict84 said:


I think the NRP development will have one major effect for people on the north side of the Bayou—a significant increase in vehicle traffic.

I think you’re correct. Traffic is a result of any reasonably sized development. In comparison, to traffic that East River will produce, the NRP development will be nothing. Right now, traffic on Jensen SD Clinton is relatively light. When/if the traffic circle at Jensen/Navigation get built, will have a huge impact in the traffic, in a positive way. 
 

Burt, I certainly have concerns about concentrating low income housing in any specific area of the city, for example the east end. But, I have a serious question. Which would you rather:

1. Give private developers incentives through tax breaks to construct LIH. Or,

2. Pay for LIH directly with revenue that the city has collected in the forms of taxes?  Do you believe that the city can build reasonable quality low income housing more efficiently than a developer (with oversight)?  The housing has to get built one way or another. Unless there is another way to fund “public housing”.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The "oversight" is my main concern. HHA has been less than transparent and provided several misleading  statements in their application to HUD (for instance they state that Middle Street will provide direct access to the site directly from Navigation, this is not accurate and misleading). The environmental issues that exist at the NRP site are of the most concerning. The City is essentially forcing low income folks to live in an area that is environmentally questionable. My back of the napkin math for this project (land and construction cost) puts the cost of each unit at $260,000+. That is high even for Class A projects let alone on a site with environmental issues. 

 

I agree that giving private developers incentives in some cases makes sense. The problem is when the developer flips the property (many times at a large profit) and you are stuck with a developer/operator that does not live up to the agreements as they were set forth. This has happened in several cases with NRP, JLB, Ojala, etc...The developers and their brokers seem to be the only winners here.   

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, burt said:

The "oversight" is my main concern. HHA has been less than transparent and provided several misleading  statements in their application to HUD (for instance they state that Middle Street will provide direct access to the site directly from Navigation, this is not accurate and misleading). The environmental issues that exist at the NRP site are of the most concerning. The City is essentially forcing low income folks to live in an area that is environmentally questionable. My back of the napkin math for this project (land and construction cost) puts the cost of each unit at $260,000+. That is high even for Class A projects let alone on a site with environmental issues. 

 

I agree that giving private developers incentives in some cases makes sense. The problem is when the developer flips the property (many times at a large profit) and you are stuck with a developer/operator that does not live up to the agreements as they were set forth. This has happened in several cases with NRP, JLB, Ojala, etc...The developers and their brokers seem to be the only winners here.   

 

What do you mean, "environmentally questionable"? Either the site is contaminated or it isn't. An ESA will determine that and is required before they can build. The videos make a big deal of "They're next to a lead facility!" but that in itself doesn't mean anything. If this area were questionable, there wouldn't be developers like Midway scrambling to build there. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

HHA has yet to provide any ESAs and part of the issue is that they plan to purchase that land without making those disclosures. So if the land passed a Phase I, why not release it? If there is no remediation required, why not disclose that?  It gives the appearance that HHA is hiding something (which they have been known to do). Using tax dollars to purchase land  without doing proper due diligence such as environmental, traffic study, etc...is not being a good steward of tax payer funds. And given the history of the site and proximity to other industrial sites, I think it is safe to say that the environmental integrity of the lot is questionable until proven otherwise. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Naviguessor said:

Hi pm91. 

I am speaking from a homeowner's perspective, in the neighborhood that your are talking about (East Bayou District).  At the core of this neighborhood is Kennedy Place, a 108unit/224bedroom, Houston Housing Authority, low income housing project.  This whole neighborhood, as you see it now, has grown up around this.  There are literally, hundreds of new homes surrounding this development on all sides.  Property values have sky-rocketed since the purchase my new townhome in 2013, and I attribute it to the potential of the East River property, as well as proximity to downtown and easy access to highways and all central city neighborhoods (Montrose, Heights, Midtown, EADO, etc...).

 

So, the NRP project you are speaking of, is across the Bayou, on the southern bank . Much of this is designed as a replacement for Clayton Homes, which is currently being demolished and will be fully eliminated. THE NRP (which was actually further from the East Bayou District) will have little effect or interaction on this neighborhood.  The closer proposed development is the OJALA mixed income development which 304units are proposed along with hundreds of market rate units. It's a large piece of property.  Details are sketchy (and that is a concern) but it is easy to see how this could become a development of more than 1000 new units, as what has been indicated.  In my opinion, what will effect the neighborhood more, is the additional residents that this development is likely to bring, which will bring more retail (to East River and elsewhere), which is desperately needed. 

 

As I see it, The enormous size of East River, the amenities and residents it will bring, the ongoing development of he the Bayou/BBP will far overshadow a few hundred additional low income residents. 

 

Reference:

http://www.housingforhouston.com/public-housing/housing-developments/kennedy-place.aspx

https://www.saveeastend.com/

Thank you so much for layin it out. That area is definitely our first choice and we certainly hope we can move in. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, burt said:

HHA has yet to provide any ESAs and part of the issue is that they plan to purchase that land without making those disclosures. So if the land passed a Phase I, why not release it? If there is no remediation required, why not disclose that?  It gives the appearance that HHA is hiding something (which they have been known to do). Using tax dollars to purchase land  without doing proper due diligence such as environmental, traffic study, etc...is not being a good steward of tax payer funds. And given the history of the site and proximity to other industrial sites, I think it is safe to say that the environmental integrity of the lot is questionable until proven otherwise. 

 

So then don't say the area is "environmentally questionable," say that you want to see the ESA before the purchase takes place. That is a reasonable complaint, not "they're next to a lead facility!"

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, pm91 said:

So does anyone know how this will impact home prices? Currently shopping around and love the East River project of course, but now with the NRP project going in I'm wondering if I buy a house for say 350k on the North side of the bayou, which seems to be the average around there, is it immediately going to drop once the NRP opens up or is East River going to offset that?

No, I don’t think so at all 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Real Estate 101...Industrial sites, dry cleaners, gas stations, tire shops, anything with underground storage...all considered to be "environmentally questionable" given the use of the land....so again...this lot (from a real estate perspective) is considered questionable given its past use until proven otherwise. The burden of proof is on the City and they have not lived up to their end to this point. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, burt said:

Real Estate 101...Industrial sites, dry cleaners, gas stations, tire shops, anything with underground storage...all considered to be "environmentally questionable" given the use of the land....so again...this lot (from a real estate perspective) is considered questionable given its past use until proven otherwise. The burden of proof is on the City and they have not lived up to their end to this point. 

 

This is urban real estate in a formerly industrial area of town. Everybody knows there are industrial sites around here. The videos act like it's such a big deal that the sites have industrial neighbors and "part of the land is contaminated!" How do we know that part of the land is contaminated but the rest of it isn't? Sounds like a study has been done, and probably the sale price was based on the uncontaminated portion. I don't really have the time or inclination to find out, but the links you've posted don't present the argument clearly. This isn't Shady Acres out in Montgomery County, these are urban infill land parcels and contamination issues are a normal part of the development process.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Naviguessor said:

I think you’re correct. Traffic is a result of any reasonably sized development. In comparison, to traffic that East River will produce, the NRP development will be nothing. Right now, traffic on Jensen SD Clinton is relatively light. When/if the traffic circle at Jensen/Navigation get built, will have a huge impact in the traffic, in a positive way. 
 

Burt, I certainly have concerns about concentrating low income housing in any specific area of the city, for example the east end. But, I have a serious question. Which would you rather:

1. Give private developers incentives through tax breaks to construct LIH. Or,

2. Pay for LIH directly with revenue that the city has collected in the forms of taxes?  Do you believe that the city can build reasonable quality low income housing more efficiently than a developer (with oversight)?  The housing has to get built one way or another. Unless there is another way to fund “public housing”.  

 

I'd like to see option 3: every new apartment complex has to have a certain percentage of units set aside for low income. could you imagine a world?

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, samagon said:

 

I'd like to see option 3: every new apartment complex has to have a certain percentage of units set aside for low income. could you imagine a world?

I can for sure because that's exactly what happens in NYC and makes it so expensive for anyone trying to buy a market rate apartment...

 

Why doesn't everyone ask about modifying existing regulations to help lower cost? Not every apartment needs to be so big, have multiple parking spots etc. Cost could be lowered by not having so many building standards. 

Edited by iah77
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/8/2020 at 12:50 PM, samagon said:

 

I'd like to see option 3: every new apartment complex has to have a certain percentage of units set aside for low income. could you imagine a world?

 

Sure I can. Its called San Francisco.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/10/2020 at 1:19 AM, Big E said:

 

Sure I can. Its called San Francisco.

 

It is a pretty cool concept. I like the idea... Doesn't have to be a big percentage at all... 5% or 10% of new buildings are rent controlled or whatever. I wouldn't think those units would be as 'nice' or premier in any way; but it makes for a diverse area.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...