Minute Maid Park Mixed-Use Development

[Response]

Don't worry. In Houston, everything is temporary. Even the permanent stuff. 

[nate4l1f3]

23 hours ago, Nate99 said:

Can confirm. They're putting in a few drains and the rebar for curbing is being placed now.  

Maybe the city can part with the block behind the Marquis after this is up and running. 

That is the block I’m most excited about for downtown. I have high hopes for that one!

[kbates2]

2 hours ago, nate4l1f3 said:

That is the block I’m most excited about for downtown. I have high hopes for that one!

That's a pretty important one.  The Main and Prairie block across from Moonshiner's is probably mine.  Bank of Southwest tower is still a pretty major one.

[nate4l1f3]

21 hours ago, kbates2 said:

That's a pretty important one.  The Main and Prairie block across from Moonshiner's is probably mine.  Bank of Southwest tower is still a pretty major one.

Yes! Every time me and my buddy pass that block on Main and Prairie we always dream. 

[j_cuevas713]

22 hours ago, kbates2 said:

That's a pretty important one.  The Main and Prairie block across from Moonshiner's is probably mine.  Bank of Southwest tower is still a pretty major one.

I'm surprised that lot hasn't been developed yet. Whatever get's built will really tie in that entertainment section of downtown. 

[H-Town Man]

On 4/28/2021 at 1:29 PM, Nate99 said:

Can confirm. They're putting in a few drains and the rebar for curbing is being placed now.  

Maybe the city can part with the block behind the Marquis after this is up and running. 

If you mean Block 100, that is owned by Louis Macey. He'll sell it when he's good and ready.

 

[Houston19514]

3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

If you mean Block 100, that is owned by Louis Macey. He'll sell it when he's good and ready.

 

Hmmm... Interesting.  i had thought the City owned that whole super-block. Didn't they issue an RFP for development on that site a few years back?

[H-Town Man]

On 4/30/2021 at 5:40 PM, Houston19514 said:

Hmmm... Interesting.  i had thought the City owned that whole super-block. Didn't they issue an RFP for development on that site a few years back?

HCAD shows it owned by Louis Macey (who goes under the name "Current Owner") since I think around 2011. It may have been the city's before that, didn't dig into the sales history of all the parcels. They still may have been in a position to issue an RFP if they had a ground lease agreement, although it would be unusual for the city to be the lessee on a ground lease. 

 

[Nate99]

On 4/30/2021 at 2:15 PM, H-Town Man said:

If you mean Block 100, that is owned by Louis Macey. He'll sell it when he's good and ready.

 

Dang, I thought it came up as being city owned a while back as well. 

[H-Town Man]

2 hours ago, Nate99 said:

Dang, I thought it came up as being city owned a while back as well. 

The best way to ensure that this gets developed to its highest and best use is for it to remain in private hands. He will sell it when he believes its value is maximized, and when that happens, a developer will be forced to build something very big in order to get an adequate return to the land. When public entities get involved is when you end up with stuff like the Embassy Suites, although it did require public investment to get the ball rolling in this neighborhood (but we are past that stage).

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by H-Town Man

[texan]

I went to Texas Live! in Arlington this weekend while visiting a friend and I really hope something similar but Houston, Astros, and space themed ends up on this site. It's a really cool and surprisingly unique experience for it being in the metroplex. Normally I would be against Houston doing a carbon copy of something in Dallas but this is the exception.

[j_cuevas713]

3 hours ago, texan said:

I went to Texas Live! in Arlington this weekend while visiting a friend and I really hope something similar but Houston, Astros, and space themed ends up on this site. It's a really cool and surprisingly unique experience for it being in the metroplex. Normally I would be against Houston doing a carbon copy of something in Dallas but this is the exception.

The thing about our version is it won't be in some suburb but downtown, where it should be. 

[Houston19514]

3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

The best way to ensure that this gets developed to its highest and best use is for it to remain in private hands. He will sell it when he believes its value is maximized, and when that happens, a developer will be forced to build something very big in order to get an adequate return to the land. When public entities get involved is when you end up with stuff like the Embassy Suites, although it did require public investment to get the ball rolling in this neighborhood (but we are past that stage).

 

I hear what you're saying, but to be fair, public entities had little to do with the Embassy Suites.  On the other hand, public entities were much more heavily involved with both the Hilton Americas and the Marriott Marquis.

[H-Town Man]

14 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I hear what you're saying, but to be fair, public entities had little to do with the Embassy Suites.  On the other hand, public entities were much more heavily involved with both the Hilton Americas and the Marriott Marquis.

Like I said, it took public entities to get the ball rolling, as was the case with the convention center, its hotels, and the park. But public entities had a lot to do with the Embassy Suites, because the tax incentives given out made it feasible to construct a building for which the land value was otherwise too high. If no tax incentives were given out, it would have required a bigger, nicer building to make the project feasible given the land cost.

That's the tradeoff when you push development forward with tax incentives, rebates, etc. It makes buildings with a lower return feasible, so you get lesser buildings.

 

[tangledwoods]

For everyone worried, there is about a 99% chance this will end up as a Texas Live! or equal.  It's helpful to remember that companies like Live Nation and Cordish (folks behind the Live! brand) have been absolutely hosed by the pandemic.  Project financing is just not all that simple right now and mixed use projects like this one take time to get organized. 

For now just enjoyed the asphalt paved paradise.

 

[H-Town Man]

If we get something like Texas Live!, it would be at the bottom of a very tall building. There is no way something like that would be feasible on $400-500/SF land.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by H-Town Man

[Nate99]

20 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

The best way to ensure that this gets developed to its highest and best use is for it to remain in private hands. He will sell it when he believes its value is maximized, and when that happens, a developer will be forced to build something very big in order to get an adequate return to the land. When public entities get involved is when you end up with stuff like the Embassy Suites, although it did require public investment to get the ball rolling in this neighborhood (but we are past that stage).

 

Gotcha. 

My "dang" was more for believing and sharing bad information. Tend to agree that having it in the hands of a known developer is net good.  

I also had some notion of whatever amalgamation of the Astros, city, county etc that looks out for whatever parking regs/expectations are appropriate would be satiated with the new big lot right next to the stadium and be willing to let this one go, but that's a pretty diffuse motivation. 

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

On 5/4/2021 at 10:36 AM, H-Town Man said:

If we get something like Texas Live!, it would be at the bottom of a very tall building. There is no way something like that would be feasible on $400-500/SF land.

 

The Rustic seems to be doing ok. But then again, the only time I have been there was for a private event last week, and it was packed. Events are where these places make their money, not from shows and restaurants.

[H-Town Man]

13 hours ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

The Rustic seems to be doing ok. But then again, the only time I have been there was for a private event last week, and it was packed. Events are where these places make their money, not from shows and restaurants.

The Rustic is not even comparable to this in land value. Land over there is worth maybe $40-50/SF, a tenth of this. That is why the Rustic is located where it is, in the back of everything, because you couldn't put something like that anywhere else downtown. It is not a question of whether something will do well here. Anything would do well. It's a question of whether it will do well enough to return the cost of the land plus the cost of whatever you build on it. At this location, it will take a very tall building to do that.

 

[staresatmaps]

I vote The Rustic as the least inviting building in all of downtown.

[Sunstar]

3 hours ago, staresatmaps said:

I vote The Rustic as the least inviting building in all of downtown.

I give them credit for doing something with the least favorable lot in all of downtown

[j_cuevas713]

6 hours ago, staresatmaps said:

I vote The Rustic as the least inviting building in all of downtown.

That's pretty rough criticism for an area that's continuing to change.

Edited May 6, 2021 by j_cuevas713

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

I wonder if this parking lot is going to be paved with asphalt or a porous surface since it will be temporary?

[wilcal]

Permits issued for parking lot

[toxtethogrady]

On 4/24/2021 at 4:23 PM, hindesky said:

Definitely going to be a surface parking lot at first.

Who's at first?🤣

[hindesky]

Edited June 6, 2021 by hindesky

[Texasota]

Those curbs would be so much better used for bike lanes.

[hindesky]

Asphalt.

[j_cuevas713]

Jim Crane confirmed that construction will start in 12 months and be similar to the ballpark village in St Louis and The Battery in Atlanta. This is going to really spark this corner of downtown. Finally seeing the investment of building MMP downtown. 

Edited November 6, 2021 by j_cuevas713