Minute Maid Park Mixed-Use Development

[j_cuevas713]

5 hours ago, thedistrict84 said:

If you are familiar with the plans, then you will recall that there is an abbreviated exit ramp which dumps eastbound freeway traffic onto St. Emanuel right at East Village, which is very much the heart of the most walkable segment of this area. It is borderline delusional to think that that arrangement will not have a negative impact on walkability and detrimentally affect businesses in the immediate area (if they even manage to survive the several years that construction will take).

I agree. Too many morons are going to be flying through this area well above the speed limit. A park cap is not going to change the fact that you lose more real estate and have to face a behemoth freeway. St Emanuel SHOULD NOT be in the same sentence as feeder road. 

[mkultra25]

On 1/30/2021 at 3:45 PM, hindesky said:

Yeah, the guys I talked said it was at the Zoo.

Hermann Park, October 1976, and a diagram of the location near the Zoo entrance.

(source: http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/103626363/Image 8 Verse 1 Solution)

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by mkultra25

[Houston19514]

20 hours ago, thedistrict84 said:

If you are familiar with the plans, then you will recall that there is an abbreviated exit ramp which dumps eastbound freeway traffic onto St. Emanuel right at East Village, which is very much the heart of the most walkable segment of this area. It is borderline delusional to think that that arrangement will not have a negative impact on walkability and detrimentally affect businesses in the immediate area (if they even manage to survive the several years that construction will take).

Abbreviated exit ramp?  Do you mean the one that exits the main lanes of I-69 just after St Jospeh Parkway and dumps northbound traffic on to St Emmanuel just past Polk (almost 2000' in length)?http://ih45northandmore.com/docs13/02_NHHIP_Seg3_I-45_RollPlot_PH_2-3.pdf Then they'll have stop lights at Dallas and every 320' thereafter all the way through EADO.  And once you get to Lamar, there's the park on the west side of the street (Sorry, H-Town Man; not a Big If. That cap park is happening.) Sorry, I don't see a problem there.  It's actually quite similar to freeway traffic being "dumped" onto CBD streets at points all around downtown; In all such cases, traffic is immediately calmed by, among other things, traffic signals every 320'.  

As I said earlier, check back in 10 years or so; we'll see who was borderline delusional.

[iah77]

53 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Abbreviated exit ramp?  Do you mean the one that exits the main lanes of I-69 just after St Jospeh Parkway and dumps northbound traffic on to St Emmanuel just past Polk (almost 2000' in length)?http://ih45northandmore.com/docs13/02_NHHIP_Seg3_I-45_RollPlot_PH_2-3.pdf Then they'll have stop lights at Dallas and every 320' thereafter all the way through EADO.  And once you get to Lamar, there's the park on the west side of the street (Sorry, H-Town Man; not a Big If. That cap park is happening.) Sorry, I don't see a problem there.  It's actually quite similar to freeway traffic being "dumped" onto CBD streets at points all around downtown; In all such cases, traffic is immediately calmed by, among other things, traffic signals every 320'.  

As I said earlier, check back in 10 years or so; we'll see who was borderline delusional.

Agreed, I think all the positives outweigh the risk. I think back parts of Eado will develop nicely and parts closer to the park will become much more dense as what happened in Dallas.

[thedistrict84]

1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

Abbreviated exit ramp?  Do you mean the one that exits the main lanes of I-69 just after St Jospeh Parkway and dumps northbound traffic on to St Emmanuel just past Polk (almost 2000' in length)?http://ih45northandmore.com/docs13/02_NHHIP_Seg3_I-45_RollPlot_PH_2-3.pdf Then they'll have stop lights at Dallas and every 320' thereafter all the way through EADO.  And once you get to Lamar, there's the park on the west side of the street (Sorry, H-Town Man; not a Big If. That cap park is happening.) Sorry, I don't see a problem there.  It's actually quite similar to freeway traffic being "dumped" onto CBD streets at points all around downtown; In all such cases, traffic is immediately calmed by, among other things, traffic signals every 320'.  

As I said earlier, check back in 10 years or so; we'll see who was borderline delusional.

It has been awhile since I had looked at the plans, and I will admit that that exit ramp is a bit longer than I recall it being. Hopefully they have a significant drop in the speed limit soon after exiting so traffic slows substantially prior to the intersection. Still, knowing how most Houston drivers approach freeway offramps of this type, I can predict with virtual certainty that people will routinely be going through that first intersection at 40+ MPH to beat the light (like they do at the Polk exit now).

The consensus has been that the cap itself is definitely happening as the TXDoT budget and engineering necessarily requires it. Development of that cap into anything that is not a barren patch of concrete is still a question mark, and far from the certainty you seem to suggest, especially in this COVID and slumping O&G climate. Further, from my understanding, construction on top of the cap will be very limited to park infrastructure, so there are several blocks that will be lost to future development if the park does not happen.

But, in what I think fits the true definition of ironic, the map you shared in part to show the plans for the cap actually seems to label the cap area as "HIGHWAY CAP/POTENTIAL OPEN SPACE." I didn't even realize that having it open was still a possibility, and if that is indeed the case it will absolutely, unquestionably kill the area. 

[H-Town Man]

16 minutes ago, thedistrict84 said:

It has been awhile since I had looked at the plans, and I will admit that that exit ramp is a bit longer than I recall it being. Hopefully they have a significant drop in the speed limit soon after exiting so traffic slows substantially prior to the intersection. Still, knowing how most Houston drivers approach freeway offramps of this type, I can predict with virtual certainty that people will routinely be going through that first intersection at 40+ MPH to beat the light (like they do at the Polk exit now).

The consensus has been that the cap itself is definitely happening as the TXDoT budget and engineering necessarily requires it. Development of that cap into anything that is not a barren patch of concrete is still a question mark, and far from the certainty you seem to suggest, especially in this COVID and slumping O&G climate. Further, from my understanding, construction on top of the cap will be very limited to park infrastructure, so there are several blocks that will be lost to future development if the park does not happen.

But, in what I think fits the true definition of ironic, the map you shared in part to show the plans for the cap actually seems to label the cap area as "HIGHWAY CAP/POTENTIAL OPEN SPACE." I didn't even realize that having it open was still a possibility, and if that is indeed the case it will absolutely, unquestionably kill the area. 

I think "open space" probably means open park space. If it just meant that it was "open" to the freeway below, it would say "open space" in all the places where there is a sunken freeway.

 

[HOUCAJUN]

Is it just me but when did the MMP Mixed Use development turn into the freeway cap thread? Asking for a friend.

[thedistrict84]

1 minute ago, HOUCAJUN said:

Is it just me but when did the MMP Mixed Use development turn into the freeway cap thread? Asking for a friend.

We went off on a bit of a tangent when we started talking about other bars to go to near MMP and how accessible they are, now that everyone's favorite MMP-adjacent sports bar Home Plate has been unceremoniously demoed.

[tigereye]

Drove by the site yesterday, all of the bars have been demolished. Sorry no pics.

Train is scheduled to move Feb 28 

https://www.facebook.com/1717138895199170/posts/2837438819835833/?d=n

[X.R.]

Gonna be real sad if those things are parking lots for long. I know people will say you can drink across the highway, but the whole point is to, you know, be around the park doing stuff, maybe stop in at the merch store before going to grab a drink. I wonder if they will do like a foodtruck park in those lots on game days, that would be cool. Otherwise, 4 years is a long time to wait.

[Highrise Tower]

[tigereye]

Here’s both Cohn House and SP982 being loaded up for their relocation this week. 

https://www.facebook.com/262612701157/posts/10158134179876158/?d=n

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by tigereye

[HoustonMidtown]

 

[txtiger]

Would be very cool if this is what’s slated for the lot...:  

https://www.usthrillrides.com/gallery?pgid=jg23t492-ddf3c54d-556a-4bf5-a312-1a609afa5d12

but, alas... likely not.

[Arternative]

The skeptical part in me sees the city's handling of these assets over the years and thinks it's a form of money laundering or corruption.

[mattyt36]

4 minutes ago, Arternative said:

The skeptical part in me sees the city's handling of these assets over the years and thinks it's a form of money laundering or corruption.

Seems pretty inefficient

[KirbyDriveKid]

Deleting! Think I misunderstood

Edited February 22, 2021 by KirbyDriveKid
Deleting! Think I misunderstood

[hindesky]

Loading out the remaining parts of the demo. Train looks ready for a new home, hopefully a permanent one.

 

[tigereye]

Train (SP 982) is moving to 3405 Navigation on 2/28 

https://www.facebook.com/1717138895199170/posts/2845499742363074/?d=n

[JBTX]

5 minutes ago, tigereye said:

Train (SP 982) is moving to 3405 Navigation on 2/28 

https://www.facebook.com/1717138895199170/posts/2845499742363074/?d=n

Interesting. I wonder if it's going into the warehouse there or if it will be placed on the tracks.

Edited February 24, 2021 by JBTX

[Triton]

1 hour ago, tigereye said:

Train (SP 982) is moving to 3405 Navigation on 2/28 

https://www.facebook.com/1717138895199170/posts/2845499742363074/?d=n

Good to see it is at least not being torn down or something. This train means a lot to my family.

My great grandfather took many many trips on this train and served as one of its engineers. We have several photos of him working on the train itself back in the day. What was funny is that when he arrived back into Houston, he would blow a unique pattern with the horn to tell my great grandmother that he was home so she could come and pick him up. 

[Houston19514]

8 hours ago, Triton said:

Good to see it is at least not being torn down or something. This train means a lot to my family.

My great grandfather took many many trips on this train and served as one of its engineers. We have several photos of him working on the train itself back in the day. What was funny is that when he arrived back into Houston, he would blow a unique pattern with the horn to tell my great grandmother that he was home so she could come and pick him up. 

Cool.  Have you shared this information and photos with the group that is working on (and presumably owns) the locomotive?

[hindesky]

10 hours ago, JBTX said:

Interesting. I wonder if it's going into the warehouse there or if it will be placed on the tracks.

I've ridden by these 2 warehouses and there is about a dozen old/antique trains already there on an old rail line that used to service the warehouses there. I took a few photos of them but there are a lot more.

[kbates2]

Oh I'm humping it.

[JBTX]

1 hour ago, hindesky said:

I've ridden by these 2 warehouses and there is about a dozen old/antique trains already there on an old rail line that used to service the warehouses there. I took a few photos of them but there are a lot more.

Interesting. I've ridden and walked in that area, even on those tracks, and somehow never saw these. Time to explore more.

[Triton]

3 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Cool.  Have you shared this information and photos with the group that is working on (and presumably owns) the locomotive?

Reached out to family that has all the material (who would actually know) because I am not sure. Why, what are you thinking? We could submit those photos to them?

[Houston19514]

3 hours ago, Triton said:

Reached out to family that has all the material (who would actually know) because I am not sure. Why, what are you thinking? We could submit those photos to them?

The group is obviously serious about train history. I would think they would be thrilled to get any photos and stories about one of the locomotives they possess and plan to make operational again.

[tigereye]

19 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

The group is obviously serious about train history. I would think they would be thrilled to get any photos and stories about one of the locomotives they possess and plan to make operational again.

That’s the plan for SP 982: Restore to operational again. This according to the SP 982 Historical Group on FB 

[jmitch94]

On 2/24/2021 at 1:07 PM, Triton said:

Reached out to family that has all the material (who would actually know) because I am not sure. Why, what are you thinking? We could submit those photos to them?

They would be stoked! Us history buffs love having objects from the past but generally is not the physical object we love it’s the connection to people in the past that used it. A historian loves nothing more that to find great stories and period photos of of something like this. 

[Triton]

53 minutes ago, jmitch94 said:

They would be stoked! Us history buffs love having objects from the past but generally is not the physical object we love it’s the connection to people in the past that used it. A historian loves nothing more that to find great stories and period photos of of something like this. 

My family is claiming they have sent these photos and info about my great grandfather. Does anyone know the actual name of the group that is preserving this train?

 

Anyway, here is my great grandfather in the first shot. In this photo, he is traveling into the Lufkin yard. In the second photo, my great grandmother is explaining the special horn sound he would make when he finally arrived back into the Englewood Yard from Lufkin. 

Edit: Horn sound was "one long and a short, [an] short, [an] a long" to let her know he was home.