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Minute Maid Park Mixed-Use Development


Brandon55

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25 minutes ago, gene said:

They need to have at least one large feature ride...maybe a tower ride to see the city or large rocket ride or combine the rocket shaped observation tower with a free fall drop ride and then name the whole area/development Astroworld... #RIP 

🚀

 

Maybe rebuild the Continental Astroneedle... that'll get two bygone names with one stroke.

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4 hours ago, cspwal said:

The Angel's are also doing something similar, though half-heartedly https://www.anaheim.net/1072/Platinum-Triangle

It looks like they are trying to urbanfify it with apartments, by taking chunks out of the parking lot sea, but there's still a lot of parking that won't be touched

 

That can’t be the Angels considering they’re talking about moving to Long Beach.

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So looking at all the MLB stadiums, it looks like:

14/30 have a lot of surface lots around the stadium (including the Mets - that's probably the largest area of parking lots in all of NYC)

5/30 have or are building a "ball park village" mixed use development.  They are all in the NL for some reason.  Maybe you need more bars for the pitchers to cool off in after grounding out weakly to 1st base?

A lot of the stadiums already have some development around the stadium

24/30 have rail transit stop at or near the stadium

A lot of them are next to rivers, highways.

A lot are downtown or at least in-town now.

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4 hours ago, Angostura said:

 

 

Up until recently, the approach had been to surround stadiums with nothing but acres of parking, so people had no choice but to pay $18 for a beer inside the venue. This approach is... better.

You can blame Aramark and their overpriced and crappy food for the ridiculous beer prices at Houston sports events. It amazes me how they basically have a monopoly on all the sporting venues. UH wisely just gave Aramark the boot from its sports facilities. I know many UH fans are happy about it.

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42 minutes ago, cspwal said:

5/30 have or are building a "ball park village" mixed use development.  They are all in the NL for some reason.  Maybe you need more bars for the pitchers to cool off in after grounding out weakly to 1st base?

 

Heyyyyyy... everyone knows that the DH is a Commie plot. :ph34r:*

 

*(loyal Astros fan since they were the Colt 45s, who still thinks $elig should have put his daughter's Brewers in the AL if he really wanted to "balance" things)

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1 hour ago, cougarpad said:

You can blame Aramark and their overpriced and crappy food for the ridiculous beer prices at Houston sports events. It amazes me how they basically have a monopoly on all the sporting venues. UH wisely just gave Aramark the boot from its sports facilities. I know many UH fans are happy about it.

 

Um, no, you can blame the HCSA for giving them the concession contract.

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1 hour ago, mattyt36 said:

 

Um, no, you can blame the HCSA for giving them the concession contract.

There also has to be some shenanigans going on that somehow HCSA always chooses Aramark. Like to know if some of the board members own stock in Aramark or there is some under the table money exchanging hands. 

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1 hour ago, shasta said:

Didn't that part of downtown used to be known as Frost Town? that would be cool if they brought that back. 

I believe the area around Minute Maid  was known as Quality Hill. 

I think Frost town was bit farther east and maybe on the north side of the bayou.

Edited by bobruss
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2 hours ago, mattyt36 said:

 

Um, no, you can blame the HCSA for giving them the concession contract.

 

AFAIK, the Astros retain all revenue from concessions at MMP, and the agreement with Aramark is with the team, not HCSA.

 

It's important to remember: much like Ticketmaster, the ticket-buying fan is not Aramark's customer, and much like Ticketmaster, Aramark is very good at delivering value to their ACTUAL customers, the venue operators.

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1 hour ago, bobruss said:

I believe the area around Minute Maid  was known as Quality Hill. 

I think Frost town was bit farther east and maybe on the north side of the bayou.

 

Correct on Quality Hill. I think Frost Town was on the south side/right bank of the bayou. The Buffalo Bayou Master Plan calls for a "Frost Town Urban Garden" where the electric substation is along McKee Street, IIRC.

 

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3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Correct on Quality Hill. I think Frost Town was on the south side/right bank of the bayou. The Buffalo Bayou Master Plan calls for a "Frost Town Urban Garden" where the electric substation is along McKee Street, IIRC.

 

It's over near Kirk Farris's park on the east side of the Metro bus terminal and the warehouses. He's been working on this project for at least 30 years. He's responsible for the painting of the colorful bridge. I believe it's in honor of James Bute who owned the  the Bute paint bldg, which housed his paint company. James Bute also opened one of the earliest galleries in Houston.

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9 hours ago, Angostura said:

 

AFAIK, the Astros retain all revenue from concessions at MMP, and the agreement with Aramark is with the team, not HCSA.

 

It's important to remember: much like Ticketmaster, the ticket-buying fan is not Aramark's customer, and much like Ticketmaster, Aramark is very good at delivering value to their ACTUAL customers, the venue operators.

 

Thanks for that. You are correct, although I’m sure it’s no coincidence Aramark runs the concessions at NRG and Toyota Center as well. Not sure about BBVA, but that is City-run, not County run. 

 

In any case (1) I’m sure the selection of a concessionaire is subject to County procurement rules; and (2) the point still stands. Blame HCSA or the Astros. If HCSA didn’t choose Aramark, or influence the Astros to choose Aramark, they created the lease that allowed the Astros to choose Aramark.

 

Of course this was all done 20 years ago, “best practice” at the time to deliver new stadia to Houston without burdening property owners through a tax levy. High priced concessions are only a part of it ... I’m pretty sure there’s a hotel tax and a car rental tax dedicated to the stadia which are (or used to be) among the highest in the country. I’m sure they wouldn’t do it the same way now. However, if the Astros re-upped through 2050, I’m sure they retained the favorable lease terms ... after all, why not?

 

I haven’t looked at it in a while but at one point the HCSA bonds that funded MMP, Reliant, and Toyota were junk bonds recently enough (i.e., within the past 5 years) because it was largely variable rate with swaps underwater dating back to the 2008 financial crisis. I’m confident they must have been refinanced since then because I’m sure we would have heard about it otherwise. 

 

Anyway, I’m not defending Aramark, I only go to MMP with any regularity and have been to plenty of away games. MMP is the worst, no doubt, with the exception of a couple concessions not run by Aramark (e.g., the St Arnold bar behind the Crawford Boxes). The stadium design doesn’t help, either, with very narrow circulation spaces (I assume because (ironically, in Houston) they had to fit it on those blocks, and those dimensions weren’t exactly spacious, which makes the stadium quite “dense). It’s infuriating to watch those concessions operate, they seem to have plenty of people but absolutely zero efficiencies. That’s why getting a hot dog on $1 hot dog night takes two full innings, with the line stalled for a full half inning because they’ve “run out,” and most people just give up.

 

Since the Astros have a direct financial incentive in improving such flurfty service, blame them (or HCSA). Don’t waste your time complaining about Aramark.

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On 8/17/2019 at 2:39 AM, mattyt36 said:

 

Of course this was all done 20 years ago, “best practice” at the time to deliver new stadia to Houston without burdening property owners through a tax levy. High priced concessions are only a part of it ... I’m pretty sure there’s a hotel tax and a car rental tax dedicated to the stadia which are (or used to be) among the highest in the country. I’m sure they wouldn’t do it the same way now. However, if the Astros re-upped through 2050, I’m sure they retained the favorable lease terms ... after all, why not?

 

 

Basically, yes. HCSA built and owns the stadium, and leases it to the Astros, who retain substantially all revenue generated inside, including naming rights and non-baseball events. In return, they pay a few million dollars a year in rent (now $8.1M, with the lease extension). The team also pays for certain stadium improvements.

 

BTW, an annuity purchased with the $178M naming rights fee paid by Coca Cola would more than pay for the team's lease costs over the 28-year term of the naming rights deal.

 

 

Edited by Angostura
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W

On 8/17/2019 at 12:39 AM, mattyt36 said:

 

Thanks for that. You are correct, although I’m sure it’s no coincidence Aramark runs the concessions at NRG and Toyota Center as well. Not sure about BBVA, but that is City-run, not County run. 

 

 

Wrong again.  NRG Stadium, Toyota Center, Minute Maid Park and BBVA Stadium are all Harris County Houston Sports Authority facilities.

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8 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

W

 

Wrong again.  NRG Stadium, Toyota Center, Minute Maid Park and BBVA Stadium are all Harris County Houston Sports Authority facilities.

 

Sorry, got confused with the City exclusively buying the land for BBVA. In my recollection (but living away at the time) I thought it was driven by the City and that impression must have never left me.

 

But, rest assured, Houston19, make yourself known at the next Astros game and I will buy you an overpriced beer to complement that feather in your cap.

 

 

Edited by mattyt36
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3 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Why not? I mean he's clearly shown he wants to make a big impact. He already talked about upgrades to Toyota Center. 

I was excited to hear all that talk as well, but I like the Crane approach of minimal talking and mass action.  It’s still early in his tenure so we’ll see I suppose.

Edited by nate4l1f3
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22 hours ago, Mr.Clean19 said:

If they demo Home Plate, they need to do a though rough cleaning of the area before building something else in that area. That place smells like urine and sad dreams. We go to eado to pre-game instead.

I'm all for this development but I feel like destroying these old structures would be a loss. 

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