The Astoria: Condominium High-Rise At 1405 Post Oak Blvd.

[Fortune]

The old apartments lot is currently on the market.

Yes, it has been on the market for quite some time.

[kennyc05]

Can we all just get along. 

[por favor gracias]

There is a demand there ... A demand for a McDonald's that's why it is being built there. Why do you think the things that you stated have more of a demand then McDonald's? I mean the gym went out of business, if there was that much of a demand for a gym it would still be open but it closed because there was demand for a office building to be built on the site. A book store, I don't think new book stores are in great demand anymore. A souvenir shop, this is houston. A museum, it's uptown not the museum district.

 

Did the gym go out of business because they're planning on building 5 Oaks Place there? It seemed like it had its share of business, but maybe not enough.

 

More and more residents are coming into the area, and that will automatically boost demand for "everything" so to speak. It doesn't have to be limited to the kinds of places I mentioned. I was just bringing up places off the top of my head. I actually think Uptown could use a nice museum or two (or more), but there are better locations within Uptown for a museum. It's just hard for me to believe that a lone McDonald's is what would serve this site the best. I'm not suggesting that you're saying this, but just because something was already at a particular location to begin with...that doesn't necessarily mean it's "what's best" for that location. If it did, could we please bring back Eatzi's?

 

Just my opinion.

[por favor gracias]

Yes, it has been on the market for quite some time.

 

The area is booming, though...and it has SO much more potential than drive thru fast food restaurants and banks IMO.

 

Do you think this McDonald's is "what's best" for this location?

Edited June 23, 2013 by por favor gracias

[Chi-Char-Hou-Dal]

This MCcDs has ground floor retail!!!!

They have a retail movie rental biz in a red square!!!!

[Naviguessor]

Red, you are probably one the, if not the most insightful, and thoughtful, people in this forum and your consideration to the topics are always real and enlightening. Please don't diminish your point of view and distract the topics personal insults and smack-downs.

McDonalds owns the land...they are going to do whatever they can to maximize their profits. The fact that they compressed their footprint so a developer can build a highrise is a win win. Red is right...a city's development, at least in this city, in this country, isn't up to a planning board off some sort. What we are witnessing, at this property, the market working perfectly. We will, and hope to, see a lot more of this type of densification. And... Mc Donald's will always be part of the mix. It's who we are.

[jt16]

This MCcDs has ground floor retail!!!!

They have a retail movie rental biz in a red square!!!!

Actually this one is ROTO

Retail on the outside

[por favor gracias]

Red, you are probably one the, if not the most insightful, and thoughtful, people in this forum and your consideration to the topics are always real and enlightening. Please don't diminish your point of view and distract the topics personal insults and smack-downs.

McDonalds owns the land...they are going to do whatever they can to maximize their profits. The fact that they compressed their footprint so a developer can build a highrise is a win win. Red is right...a city's development, at least in this city, in this country, isn't up to a planning board off some sort. What we are witnessing, at this property, the market working perfectly. We will, and hope to, see a lot more of this type of densification. And... Mc Donald's will always be part of the mix. It's who we are.

 

I'm not (and I don't think anyone really is) arguing that this "up to some sort of planning board." I understand how the market works and that McDonald's wants to do "what's best for McDonald's."

 

I also understand that there are ways of getting around unappealing situations. This, IMO, is an "unappealing situation"...and I really think most people would agree with that, especially if they were presented with "more appealing" alternatives (that can still include having a McDonalds on site). A multi-level entertainment complex, an athletic club, more office/residential...a number of things can be added to this location to increase its value and appeal. I have a hard time believing the city couldn't work something out with McDonald's to convince them to either share the land or sell it under certain conditions...preferably under the condition that McDonald's still has a restaurant there. This entire area is densifying rapidly, and it seems to me that it's in most people's best interest that the days of drive thru banks and restaurants here are a thing of the past. I guarantee this McDonald's has turned off potential residents from the Astoria.

 

I'd also be willing to bet that McDonald's can do just as well here with a much smaller physical footprint and less of a tax burden (or even tax incentives), more people out and about in the same building and possibly some sort of deal with the city to make room for another "choice location" under a similar scenario...perhaps closer to the Galleria.

 

I'm not saying or suggesting whether any of this is "realistic" or not. This is just my opinion. I like to envision what I consider "appealing" scenarios for the Post Oak and Greater Uptown area (amongst others). If people agree with it, great...hopefully some will spread the word. If not, that's fine too. I just wish that land was developed in the best interests of the people as opposed to the landowners. It's not like that McDonald's was THAT busy when it was up and running anyways. It really wasn't. Eatzi's, OTOH...CLEARLY what the people want, but "the market" isn't giving them anymore. I never even ate there, but I have a problem with that.

 

I think that most people would consider this "better than it was before" as opposed to a "win-win" in terms of overall use for that land...but there is always that one-in-a-million chance that I'm wrong.

 

The funny thing is that I still want McDonald's in the mix at this location.

[Fortune]

The area is booming, though...and it has SO much more potential than drive thru fast food restaurants and banks IMO.

Do you think this McDonald's is "what's best" for this location?

I would love to see the McDonald's site, the drive thru banks, and all the single story shopping centers up and down Post oak be redeveloped into multi-story mixed use complexes and highrises. But reality is its not up to me. It's all up to the market and the owners of these properties. For the owner of the McDonald's site the McDonald's is the highest and best use for them. If it wasn't they would have sold the entire site and wouldn't have bothered with constructing a new one.

[por favor gracias]

I would love to see the McDonald's site, the drive thru banks, and all the single story shopping centers up and down Post oak be redeveloped into multi-story mixed use complexes and highrises. But reality is its not up to me. It's all up to the market and the owners of these properties. For the owner of the McDonald's site the McDonald's is the highest and best use for them. If it wasn't they would have sold the entire site and wouldn't have bothered with constructing a new one.

 

Agree 100%...and I like how you said "for the owner of the McDonald's site..."

 

I think the owner is wrong, but it's certainly not up to me.

[RedScare]

I am not at all sure that any of your "more appealing" alternatives would be more appealing to the city, or to anyone else. I am quite sure that a McDonald's restaurant produces far more tax revenue for the city than an athletic club, or office or residential. A multi-level entertainment center sounds like something that would attract young people and thugs, so I doubt the wealthy condo owners nearby would be impressed. And, as stated several times, McDonald's has owned this property for decades. No one is going to force them out, and the city is not in the business of working deals to make them move.

 

I understand that in your opinion something else should be built there. However, that simply is not how life works. Some of us do not even agree that your opinion is a better idea than what is being built. I think selling half the lot to pay for my redesigned McDonald's is a brilliant idea. I also think athletic clubs are a waste of space, much more than a fast food restaurant. And, in my opinion, entertainment complexes belong in the suburbs, where all the teenagers are.

 

But, that is just my opinion. I think the owner is right.

[por favor gracias]

I'm certainly not "sure" that these ideas would be more appealing to the city, either...but I know for a fact that at least some people agree that the area can be better served than by just *this* McDonald's. I absolutely may be wrong in my assertion that I think more people would agree with that than not, but that's just what I think. Do you think that *this* McDonald's would generate more tax revenue than one with a different layout PLUS multi-level retail and/or mixed use development (as opposed to being replaced by it)? I hear you about certain entertainment centers, but there are plenty of arts/entertainment concepts that appeal to wealthy people. I think this would be a great spot for a nice bar w/ pool tables kind of like Slate in NYC, or an athletic club (sorry) or gym, or a dance studio, or more office/residential, or a number of tenants that could go above or next to McDonald's.

 

I would like to add that although it's far more the exception than the rule over time, the city has been doing a lot to encourage higher-density development downtown recently...and it seems to be paying off already. I think that it would be wise to consider doing this in parts of Uptown (especially along Post Oak) and perhaps a few other areas inside the loop at this point. Houston is changing, and it seems inevitable that the sprawl concepts *these particular areas* have been built upon are evolving more and more towards density. That's largely why I feel the way I do...and I feel the same way towards mass transit.

 

For some reason, your "I also think athletic clubs are a waste of space" comment reminds me of when Stephen Colbert once said "I think owls are a waste of time." Good stuff...

 

To each his own, my friend...thanks for the feedback.

[RedScare]

I would like to add that although it's far more the exception than the rule over time, the city has been doing a lot to encourage higher-density development downtown recently...and it seems to be paying off already.

 

Like owls, I am probably wasting my time pointing this out, but the City has done many things to thwart density, not promote it. The historic districts, lot line ordinances, parking ordinances, and the high rise setback requirements are just a few, but all of these new rules limit density within the city.

[por favor gracias]

Like owls, I am probably wasting my time pointing this out, but the City has done many things to thwart density, not promote it. The historic districts, lot line ordinances, parking ordinances, and the high rise setback requirements are just a few, but all of these new rules limit density within the city.

 

No doubt the city has done all of that...I'm just talking about the recent tax incentives they've given to developers downtown and the timely results they seem to be yielding.

 

You are indeed wasting your time. 

[RedScare]

I'm glad we are discussing downtown incentives in a thread about a Galleria McDonalds.

[por favor gracias]

I'm glad we are discussing downtown incentives in a thread about a Galleria McDonalds.

 

I was just talking about using the same kind of incentives in the Uptown (particularly Post Oak) area, and perhaps a few other areas inside the loop.

[citykid09]

Without reading all of this discussion I want say that I think I know what por favor gracias was talking about when he said that the McDonalds shouldn't have been allowed there. Its not the McDonalds that he has a problem with, its the form of McDonalds, Its suburban. But the problem in Houston is that the city (unlike other cities) does not like to tell developers how to develop there land, its pretty much anything goes. Thats when zoning would come in handy. In other cities an area like uptown would never allow a developer to put in a McDonalds like that. I found this: http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2008/02/09/no-holiday-for-the-holiday-inn/while searching for urban McDonalds. Its not really urban, but it is much more walkable than the one built in uptown. If you notice in the article McDonalds had planned one in that Oklahoma City neighborhood similar to the one in Uptown Houston, but the urban planners in that city made them change it.

[mfastx]

To combine this topic with another, it would be really cool if the Astoria took up the whole space, with a McDonald's as GFR 

 

Put a drive through around the building, with parking in the back. 

Edited June 23, 2013 by mfastx

[por favor gracias]

Without reading all of this discussion I want say that I think I know what por favor gracias was talking about when he said that the McDonalds shouldn't have been allowed there. Its not the McDonalds that he has a problem with, its the form of McDonalds, Its suburban. But the problem in Houston is that the city (unlike other cities) does not like to tell developers how to develop there land, its pretty much anything goes. Thats when zoning would come in handy. In other cities an area like uptown would never allow a developer to put in a McDonalds like that. I found this: http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2008/02/09/no-holiday-for-the-holiday-inn/while searching for urban McDonalds. Its not really urban, but it is much more walkable than the one built in uptown. If you notice in the article McDonalds had planned one in that Oklahoma City neighborhood similar to the one in Uptown Houston, but the urban planners in that city made them change it.

 

 

Thanks and good find...

 

Here's the correct link: http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2008/02/09/no-holiday-for-the-holiday-inn/

 

I do wish we had more zoning here...at least in certain parts of town.

[por favor gracias]

To combine this topic with another, it would be really cool if the Astoria took up the whole space, with a McDonald's as GFR 

 

Put a drive through around the building, with parking in the back. 

 

That would be a HUGE building capable of housing a lot more residents for sure. I think I read a couple of months or so ago that Astoria didn't want McDonald's on the first floor...does anyone know if this is correct? 

[RedScare]

Without reading all of this discussion I want say that I think I know what por favor gracias was talking about when he said that the McDonalds shouldn't have been allowed there. Its not the McDonalds that he has a problem with, its the form of McDonalds, Its suburban. 

 

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but Uptown is built on a suburban street grid. The McDonalds fits just fine there. Besides, the only change OK City demanded of the McDonalds in Bricktown is that they clad the McDonalds in brick, to fit with the other buildings. They did not remove the drive thru. The new modern McDonalds is already a style that fits in Uptown.

 

I still don't understand all the uproar over this little McDs. Why not go large and complain about all of the strip centers all up and down Post Oak and Westheimer? Why not demand GFR in all of those condo towers? Let's gripe about something that actually matters!

[por favor gracias]

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but Uptown is built on a suburban street grid. The McDonalds fits just fine there. Besides, the only change OK City demanded of the McDonalds in Bricktown is that they clad the McDonalds in brick, to fit with the other buildings. They did not remove the drive thru. The new modern McDonalds is already a style that fits in Uptown.

 

I still don't understand all the uproar over this little McDs. Why not go large and complain about all of the strip centers all up and down Post Oak and Westheimer? Why not demand GFR in all of those condo towers? Let's gripe about something that actually matters!

 

If the renderings from the article are anything close to the outcome of the situation, then the new McDonald's in Bricktown looks like it's right off the street and taking up less land than the first rendering appears to have taken. It's certainly more "urban" than the first rendering or the one here on Post Oak...again...IF the McDonald's is anything like the 2nd rendering.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I absolutely want to "go large" with different kinds of development up and down Post Oak where the strip centers are. I've posted my interest there on other threads on this site.

[RedScare]

Feel free to google it and look for yourself. The address is 501 E. Reno, Oklahoma City OK 73105.

 

After you look at it, come back and tell us if that is what you have in mind for Uptown Houston development.

[por favor gracias]

The only picture I could find of it is at this link:

 

http://www.urbanspoon.com/rph/46/1432819/73079/oklahoma-city-mcdonald-s-mcdonald-s-photo

 

It's not really my cup of tea for Uptown's location at all, actually. It still has a very "suburban" feel, at least from what I can see in that photo.

[kdog08]

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but Uptown is built on a suburban street grid. The McDonalds fits just fine there. Besides, the only change OK City demanded of the McDonalds in Bricktown is that they clad the McDonalds in brick, to fit with the other buildings. They did not remove the drive thru. The new modern McDonalds is already a style that fits in Uptown.

 

I still don't understand all the uproar over this little McDs. Why not go large and complain about all of the strip centers all up and down Post Oak and Westheimer? Why not demand GFR in all of those condo towers? Let's gripe about something that actually matters!

 

Yet Uptown is trying to add BRT and a drive through McDonalds is being rebuilt. This is a perfect example of the need for some sort of balance between planning and free market. 

[fernz]

I have a hard time believing the city couldn't work something out with McDonald's to convince them to either share the land or sell it under certain conditions...preferably under the condition that McDonald's still has a restaurant there.

Uh? Just let it go already...I have a hard time believing you can be this naive. Do you know anything about Houston's no zoning and intentional laissez faire attitude? Do you know anything about property right? For all the time you seem to spend on this forum, it seems like you've been living under a rock since the Ashby debacle began.

[jgriff]

The area is booming, though...and it has SO much more potential than drive thru fast food restaurants and banks IMO.

 

Do you think this McDonald's is "what's best" for this location?

 

I think whatever the owner wants to do with is what's best for it. Of course within certain boundaries... they shouldn't put a toxic waste dump on it. Believe me McDonald's didn't become one of the most successful companies in the world by making bad decisions. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they probably know better what to so with this land than I do.

[por favor gracias]

Uh? Just let it go already...I have a hard time believing you can be this naive. Do you know anything about Houston's no zoning and intentional laissez faire attitude? Do you know anything about property right? For all the time you seem to spend on this forum, it seems like you've been living under a rock since the Ashby debacle began.

 

 

Am I being naive, or are you being close-minded? Again, there's more than one way to skin a cat. I'm well aware of Houston's zoning and property rights situation. That's not really what I'm talking about, though. As I noted earlier, the city has been giving tax incentives for developers to come downtown...and as citykid09 pointed out in Oklahoma City, McDonald's didn't have a problem scaling back their original plans for their Bricktown location. Why would it be "naive" to think that city could work something out with McDonald's at this location?

 

And what's with the personal stuff? I've been on this forum for a few months now, and I haven't even made 50 posts yet. I made a few posts on the Ashby thread about a month ago, but I honestly don't know what you're talking about here or what "debacle" you're referring to in the first place. I don't post on a lot of threads...and apparently, neither do you. You've apparently been on this site since November 2006. If I've been "living under a rock" for the last month, where exactly have you been "living" over the last six and a half years?

Edited June 24, 2013 by por favor gracias

[por favor gracias]

I think whatever the owner wants to do with is what's best for it. Of course within certain boundaries... they shouldn't put a toxic waste dump on it. Believe me McDonald's didn't become one of the most successful companies in the world by making bad decisions. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that they probably know better what to so with this land than I do.

 

 

Again, I absolutely agree that they will do what they think is best for them...and they have every right to do that. I just don't think that this is what's best for that spot in Uptown, and I don't think I'm in the minority on that. That's really all I'm saying.

 

But like I said earlier, there's always that "one in a million" chance that I'm wrong.

[gene]

how in the heck did my favorite thread about my favorite mcdonalds with a drive through get turned into the dumbest yet funniest thread ever?! lets stick to updates...i need to know when the mcdonalds reopens!

Edited June 25, 2013 by gene