I-45 Rebuild (North Houston Highway Improvement Project)

[burt]

As mentioned, the lawsuit is just a show...too many people are making too much money off this project for it not to move forward...it's comical that they would run Rodney Ellis out there given his wife stands to make millions off the HHA projects that are to replace Clayton Homes. TXDOT funds were used to purchase Clayton Homes and she is the broker on the HHA projects. If anyone thinks ol' Rodney cares about anything other than that, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona if you are interested.

[Big E]

16 hours ago, BeerNut said:

Federal Highway Administration Asks Texas To Halt I-45 Expansion, As Harris County Sues TxDOT

 

Man, this entire project has become the clown show to end all clown shows. This really is Houston's Big Dig.

[samagon]

20 minutes ago, Big E said:

Man, this entire project has become the clown show to end all clown shows. This really is Houston's Big Dig.

it'll end up being worse than that, while their project ended up going woefully overbudget, they have something to show for the money invested.

we've got some PDFs and youtube videos.

[BeerNut]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

it'll end up being worse than that, while their project ended up going woefully overbudget, they have something to show for the money invested.

we've got some PDFs and youtube videos.

A large green space through your downtown area  > wider freeways with the possibility of some cap parks

[j_cuevas713]

So now that the county is suing TxDOT, how will this affect Metro’s plans for the Inner Katy BRT? 

[MaxConcrete]

6 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

So now that the county is suing TxDOT, how will this affect Metro’s plans for the Inner Katy BRT? 

It's very unlikely this will have any effect on the Inner Katy BRT.

The BRT will be on TxDOT right-of-way, but I don't think TxDOT will want to burn bridges with Metro, CoH and HGAC by causing delays.

Also, it appears that (as of now) only Harris County is a plaintiff in the lawsuit against TxDOT. CoH and Metro are not suing TxDOT. Of course CoH and others (i.e. Link) may be glad to let Harris County do the dirty work.

[j_cuevas713]

17 minutes ago, MaxConcrete said:

It's very unlikely this will have any effect on the Inner Katy BRT.

The BRT will be on TxDOT right-of-way, but I don't think TxDOT will want to burn bridges with Metro, CoH and HGAC by causing delays.

Also, it appears that (as of now) only Harris County is a plaintiff in the lawsuit against TxDOT. CoH and Metro are not suing TxDOT. Of course CoH and others (i.e. Link) may be glad to let Harris County do the dirty work.

Yeah I really think the CoH and Metro just didn’t have the power to stop TxDOT. But now that the county is involved it may stop the project all together which I’m actually happy about. I feel like the negatives don’t outweigh the positives with this project. 

[samagon]

5 hours ago, burt said:

As mentioned, the lawsuit is just a show...too many people are making too much money off this project for it not to move forward...it's comical that they would run Rodney Ellis out there given his wife stands to make millions off the HHA projects that are to replace Clayton Homes. TXDOT funds were used to purchase Clayton Homes and she is the broker on the HHA projects. If anyone thinks ol' Rodney cares about anything other than that, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona if you are interested.

the county lawsuit is more or less just a show, but the FHA 'asking' them to stop isn't.

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

the county lawsuit is more or less just a show, but the FHA 'asking' them to stop isn't.

 

I wouldn't be so sure of that.  Be watching for the press event where Representative Sheila Jackson Lee announces the resolution of her issues with the project by TxDoT agreeing to do things they were already committed to doing (like replacing the public housing units and paying for the residents' relocation).

[Big E]

On 3/12/2021 at 1:04 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

I feel like the negatives don’t outweigh the positives with this project. 

The only negative I'm looking at is this getting kicked around ten more years. Just get started so you can get it over with already.

[Texasota]

I mean, thousands of homes and businesses will be destroyed. You might think the project is worth it, but that's definitely a negative.

[Houston19514]

57 minutes ago, Texasota said:

I mean, thousands of homes and businesses will be destroyed. You might think the project is worth it, but that's definitely a negative.

Tap the brakes there.  THOUSANDS of homes and businesses??? I think not.

[Texasota]

Fair point. The exact numbers I saw were:

58 houses, 433 apartments or condos, 486 public housing units, 340 businesses, five churches and two schools.

So 977 homes, 340 businesses, 5 churches, and two schools. That still sounds like a pretty substantial negative to me.

[Big E]

2 hours ago, Texasota said:

Fair point. The exact numbers I saw were:

58 houses, 433 apartments or condos, 486 public housing units, 340 businesses, five churches and two schools.

So 977 homes, 340 businesses, 5 churches, and two schools. That still sounds like a pretty substantial negative to me.

While lamentable in some aspects, none of these are insurmountable issues. The schools can be replaced (and I suspect that, if they are public, there are already plans to move or close them), the churches can be moved, the house and condo owners can be compensated and moved easily enough, and the apartments are filled with renters who will simply rent somewhere else. The hardest replacements would, theoretically, be the businesses, but I suspect most of them are strip retail (like that Fry's Electronics), older hotels and motels, restaurants, gas stations, and the like fronting the freeway, most of which is also relatively easy to replace and most likely will be as new freeway frontage is opened up.

[Texasota]

And if they don't want to move? It's really never that simple. Places have value beyond the purely monetary. 

And that new freeway frontage isn't free either. People who were a block away from the freeway (which might have seemed like a reasonable compromise at one point) will now be right next to a feeder. Those (primarily) homes might still exist, but their quality of life will likely change.

[Houston19514]

18 hours ago, Texasota said:

Fair point. The exact numbers I saw were:

58 houses, 433 apartments or condos, 486 public housing units, 340 businesses, five churches and two schools.

So 977 homes, 340 businesses, 5 churches, and two schools. That still sounds like a pretty substantial negative to me.

FWIW, the two schools are:  

Alpha and Omega Christian Academy 5621 North Freeway (which TxDoT has apparently already acquired) and

Culinary Institute Le Notre, 7070 Allensby Street.

 

[samagon]

and areas that have never healed even 30 or 40 years after the freeways originally trod through their backyards, we're just going to scratch that scab right off by making the gash in the community even bigger.

the number of homes and community centers (churches, schools, or longstanding places of business) that will be displaced, it's not just those people, churches, and schools that are impacted. sure, there is the direct impact on who is being moved, but it affects the entire community. people who are friends of those that are going to be moved (probably to a location that is too far away, because these areas are getting to be too expensive for them to consider living there any longer), churches that will have the same problem, they won't be able to stay in the area and serve for community they have been a part of for so long. the greater impact is tens of thousands that will be negatively affected, not just the ones who are being forced to move.

17 hours ago, Big E said:

While lamentable in some aspects, none of these are insurmountable issues. The schools can be replaced (and I suspect that, if they are public, there are already plans to move or close them), the churches can be moved, the house and condo owners can be compensated and moved easily enough, and the apartments are filled with renters who will simply rent somewhere else. The hardest replacements would, theoretically, be the businesses, but I suspect most of them are strip retail (like that Fry's Electronics), older hotels and motels, restaurants, gas stations, and the like fronting the freeway, most of which is also relatively easy to replace and most likely will be as new freeway frontage is opened up.

to pick an out of business electronics retailer (fry's) as your lone specific example, it actually cheapens your argument. you're associating every single person in those communities as being just as inconsequential as an empty building. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by samagon

[crock]

On 3/13/2021 at 6:21 PM, Big E said:

The only negative I'm looking at is this getting kicked around ten more years. Just get started so you can get it over with already.

there are literally no positives to this project.   It will cause even more significant traffic around the i59-288 merger, it will destroy basically all of the pregaming/postgaming culture around Minutemaid and BBVA, it funnels all of west-central houston's traffic to 610, exacerbating every other bottleneck of traffic this city already has, it racistly closes off near northside from downtown.  In the event of a disaster, everyone north of i10 will be cut-off from getting to the medical center for any emergencies. It doesn't even tie into any public transportation plans, TxDOT is still a big "we don't know" when asked how long this would affect light rail service.   

 

[Houston19514]

6 minutes ago, crock said:

there are literally no positives to this project.   It will cause even more significant traffic around the i59-288 merger, it will destroy basically all of the pregaming/postgaming culture around Minutemaid and BBVA, it funnels all of west-central houston's traffic to 610, exacerbating every other bottleneck of traffic this city already has, it racistly closes off near northside from downtown.  In the event of a disaster, everyone north of i10 will be cut-off from getting to the medical center for any emergencies. It doesn't even tie into any public transportation plans, TxDOT is still a big "we don't know" when asked how long this would affect light rail service.   

 

Literally everything in your post is false.

[crock]

46 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

Literally everything in your post is false.

wow thanks for backing that up with literally any facts or knowledge or opinion.   Did I see you at any of the txdot or CoH meetings the past 3 years? 

Edited March 15, 2021 by crock

[Houston19514]

3 hours ago, crock said:

wow thanks for backing that up with literally any facts or knowledge or opinion.   Did I see you at any of the txdot or CoH meetings the past 3 years? 

My post included every bit as much backup as yours.  I'll repost with more complete responses.  FWIW, I have no idea if you saw me, but I was at several of the meetings and I have spent many hours poring over the FEIS and am very familiar with the plans.  

http://ih45northandmore.com/final_eis.aspx

4 hours ago, crock said:

there are literally no positives to this project.  
 

Plainly false.  Whether naysayers like to accept it or not, the project provides for more traffic capacity, both for single-occupant vehicles and mass transit.  Plus the benefit of removing freeway lanes from two sides of downtown.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Houston19514

[Houston19514]

3 hours ago, crock said:

 It will cause even more significant traffic around the i59-288 merger
 

Huh?  How will it cause more traffic at the i59 [sic]-288 merger?  

[Houston19514]

3 hours ago, crock said:

it will destroy basically all of the pregaming/postgaming culture around Minutemaid and BBVA

Quite the contrary.  Once the project is complete, the pregaming/postgaming culture around Minutemaid and BBVA will be hugely improved. Check back with me in ten years (likely less than that).

[TheSirDingle]

21 hours ago, Texasota said:

And if they don't want to move? It's really never that simple. Places have value beyond the purely monetary. 

And that new freeway frontage isn't free either. People who were a block away from the freeway (which might have seemed like a reasonable compromise at one point) will now be right next to a feeder. Those (primarily) homes might still exist, but their quality of life will likely change.

3 hours ago, crock said:

wow thanks for backing that up with literally any facts or knowledge or opinion.   Did I see you at any of the txdot or CoH meetings the past 3 years? 

3 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Literally everything in your post is false.

 

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

[Houston19514]

3 hours ago, crock said:

 it funnels all of west-central houston's traffic to 610, exacerbating every other bottleneck of traffic this city already has,
 

This makes no sense.  There is nothing about the project that will cause all of West-Central Houston's traffic to go to 610.

[Houston19514]

4 hours ago, crock said:

it racistly closes off near northside from downtown.  

You really went off the rails here.  Aside from your ridiculous claims of racism, there will be more connectivity between the northside and downtown post-project than there is now.

4 hours ago, crock said:

In the event of a disaster, everyone north of i10 will be cut-off from getting to the medical center for any emergencies. It doesn't even tie into any public transportation plans, TxDOT is still a big "we don't know" when asked how long this would affect light rail service.   

How is anyone north of I-10 going to be cut off from the Medical Center in the event of a disaster due to this project???

4 hours ago, crock said:

It doesn't even tie into any public transportation plans, 

How does it not tie into public transportation plans?  The design is not complete; they are still working with Metro to finalize plans and determine exactly how and where Metro's plans will fit in.

[Houston19514]

4 hours ago, crock said:

TxDOT is still a big "we don't know" when asked how long this would affect light rail service.   

You may have stumbled onto a nugget of truth here, but so what.  Of course they don't know the precise timing of any light rail service interruptions at this point in the planning.

[tigereye]

4 hours ago, crock said:

there are literally no positives to this project.   It will cause even more significant traffic around the i59-288 merger, it will destroy basically all of the pregaming/postgaming culture around Minutemaid and BBVA, it funnels all of west-central houston's traffic to 610, exacerbating every other bottleneck of traffic this city already has, it racistly closes off near northside from downtown.  In the event of a disaster, everyone north of i10 will be cut-off from getting to the medical center for any emergencies. It doesn't even tie into any public transportation plans, TxDOT is still a big "we don't know" when asked how long this would affect light rail service.   

 

4 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

Literally everything in your post is false.

I agree with @Houston19514. This is a terrible take.

Quote

”It will cause even more significant traffic around the i59-288 merger”

59-288 merger should see improvements from the fact that backups related to 45 north/Pierce Elevated are no longer there.
 

Quote

”it will destroy basically all of the pregaming/postgaming culture around Minutemaid and BBVA”

Most bars there are east of St Emanuel and city documents show the deck park would be used for more development. Couple that with GRBCC’s plans to create an East End entrance and this project could easily bolster development here, better then what’s currently there now (a shitty overpass) 

Quote

”it funnels all of west-central houston's traffic to 610, exacerbating every other bottleneck of traffic this city already has”

The Pierce Elevated’s relocation to 59 shouldn’t cause any issues with west-central Houston traffic more then what it sees now as there’ll still be a spur built out to Midtown Pierce/Jefferson split ..the same exit that’s still there. IMO, it’s location is too far east to exacerbate West Loop traffic issues anyways.

Quote

”It racistly closes off near northside from downtown”

It’s adding an important connection from San Jacinto to Fulton. Also as a former East End resident, I find out laughable how you forget to mention how the diverse East End will benefit from this project. 
 

Quote

”In the event of a disaster, everyone north of i10 will be cut-off from getting to the medical center for any emergencies.”

One freeway goes below grade and you think that’ll sever the city in the event of a disaster? Both 59 and 288 south of 45 have been below grade for decades already. There’s also plenty of other routes there.
 

While my preferable wish is for the brain-dead leaders in the city to wake up and fully build out high speed commuter rail trains with their own grade separated right of way to all heavily populated suburbs in this city, I can easily see how the NHHIP will ultimately benefit the city, especially its Downtown urban core. The city has been trying to improve quality of life and stitching back neighborhoods together by demolishing unsightly  overpasses is a step in the positive direction to that goal. This is too big of an opportunity to waste.

Edited March 15, 2021 by tigereye

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

[samagon]

18 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

This makes no sense.  There is nothing about the project that will cause all of West-Central Houston's traffic to go to 610.

I don't think anyone knows how local users will react to the changes. will a person living in Gulfton that works in Independence Heights choose 610, or 59>45? what is their current choice? what about a person that lives in Garden Oaks that works in the Medical Center? how do they commute now? How will they commute in the future?

what we know is TXDOT has the interests of regional traffic in mind, not local traffic, aka they are more concerned about traffic getting from somewhere outside of Houston to somewhere else outside of Houston. local concerns have been based on the feedback of County studies, City studies and neighborhood meetings, from the information that has been given back from TXDOT as a result of the neighborhood feedback, City and County studies, they have given very little interest in ensuring that the local residents get what they need, outside of a few very small tweaks to their overall design.

go back and look at what the city provided for feedback, what assurance has TXDOT provided that they are integrating this into their design? 

Edited March 16, 2021 by samagon