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I-45 Rebuild (North Houston Highway Improvement Project)


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4 hours ago, kennyc05 said:

Looks like they're doing soil sampling south bound on 59 right where it goes from elevated to depressed in the trench. Will the 288 and 59 interchange be rebuilt as well?

 

I noticed that soil sampling as well.  Right in the area that will be the first start construction on the IH45 North and More Project.

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3 minutes ago, cspwal said:

Is it for the 59 trenching, or for something to do with the "Innovation Hub"?

 

From the plans that have been posted, it seems they will be reconfiguring Wheeler Station as a part of the freeway rebuild, so if it's not directly related to the IH-69 work, it's probably indirectly related for the station work.  The Innovation Hub plans seem to go around Wheeler.  But maybe the Wheeler rebuild will be done as part of the Innovation Hub work?  Though in the end, it doesn't really matter; regardless of who does each component (Rice, TxDOT, or METRO), this whole area likely is going to be redone over the next few years.

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20 minutes ago, rechlin said:

 

From the plans that have been posted, it seems they will be reconfiguring Wheeler Station as a part of the freeway rebuild, so if it's not directly related to the IH-69 work, it's probably indirectly related for the station work.  The Innovation Hub plans seem to go around Wheeler.  But maybe the Wheeler rebuild will be done as part of the Innovation Hub work?  Though in the end, it doesn't really matter; regardless of who does each component (Rice, TxDOT, or METRO), this whole area likely is going to be redone over the next few years.

 

25 minutes ago, cspwal said:

Is it for the 59 trenching, or for something to do with the "Innovation Hub"?

I think it's the 59 trenching because they were drilling on 59 where it inclines yesterday as well.

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I have to admit, I think TXDOT has really been working with the city to make this project "work". But I think Jeff Speck really pointed out some of the serious flaws here. I think TXDOT is really trying to market that this new project will connect the city but there are a lot of areas, especially areas like mine on the Heights and Northside, where the connections will be reduced even more... The only area where I have hope is from the Planning Commission themselves but they do not have as big of a stream of money as TXDOT does...

 

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/nhhip/index.html

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1 hour ago, Triton said:

I have to admit, I think TXDOT has really been working with the city to make this project "work". But I think Jeff Speck really pointed out some of the serious flaws here. I think TXDOT is really trying to market that this new project will connect the city but there are a lot of areas, especially areas like mine on the Heights and Northside, where the connections will be reduced even more... The only area where I have hope is from the Planning Commission themselves but they do not have as big of a stream of money as TXDOT does...

 

http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/nhhip/index.html

 

Exactly. I think the segment that is for the downtown portion all around has been stellar, but the solution to 1-45 going north has been the usual answer to every problem. I'm glad someone like this is pointing this out, but I also say this, "its easy to criticize, but its hard to compliment" and "its easier to destroy, than it is to build". All I read in all of this is the guys criticisms. Well ok bud, have you invested millons of dollars or hours of time to develop an alternative plan? No...He hasn't. He has a few good whimsical ideas that sound great and have worked great in test cases, but I have yet to see anyone place forth a working alternative. I detest this idea that if it isn't some perfect utopian dream of an urban environment then we shouldn't even try something at all. I don't think TXDoT's plan is perfect, but its the best plan we have yet. Until I see working drawings or visuals by this guy or anyone else then its just a cool idea in his head. Yeah I want alternative transit as well...prove it and show it! Talk is cheap. If this is his line of work then he can get down from the clouds a little bit and put pen to paper.

 

EDIT: From the article post earlier I think this quote is very telling:

 

"We’ve been working for the past four years and we need your help," Skelly said. "We have a ton of work to do and the only way this is going to change is if we have people involved. So far, we want to make it better. If there is a group that wants to kill it, that’s fine, too," he added. "That’s just where we’re at right now."

 

Thats an amazing contradiction in that statement. If you are a person that actually wants to make things better then you are not fine with someone killing it as well. What he really means when he says that is that he is completely fine with killing it, or making it go as slow as humanly possible until it becomes dead. He says they been working on this for the past four years? Why have we not heard about this Coalition or this guy until now? Four years would have been enough time to come up with a working alternative. Certainly the Author in this lecture doesn't care about this project. This is merely an aside to his new book. Does he think he is some kind of Jane Jacobs? At least she heavily involved in the process, from the city, was on the ground while it was happening, and her book was heavily influenced by actions happening in NYC.

Edited by Luminare
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I understand the concerns that have been raised by Mr. Speck, but like Luminare said, what is the solution?

 

Houston's population is still on an upward trend, automobiles will dominate the city for the foreseeable future, congestion will likely get worse as time goes on with the current system in place, and not to mention in another 10-15 years the existing infrastructure will likely need to be updated due to aging and deterioration. 

 

It is what it is unfortunately.

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25 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

How is the project going to wreck our bayou parks, as Speck claims?

 

I think even during the Planning Commission meetings I attended for the I-45 expansion, their biggest concern was the White Oak Bayou Greenway area. They realized that a certain portion will have a half dozen different bridges crossing over it, just north of UH-D. Their concern was it would destroy the view and the greenery this area currently has... but it sounded like they were going to try to make the best of it...

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Yeah I'm sure all the green in this image is just radiation from a proposed nuclear dumping ground. Its definitely not large scale land reclamation.

 

bIG2SuD.jpg

 

Definitely not a proposal to bury an existing eyesore and visual barrier in an effort to restitch different communities. Nothing to see here.

 

TFqkRGx.jpg

 

New Urbanist principles?! What is that? We are definitely not doing that in this project for sure.

 

lyQSWXO.jpg

 

And we are absolutely not looking at creating a massive greenbelt to help facilitate biking in and around downtown while also re-purposing an old highway overpass into a super large (dare I say Texas-sized) high-line. What a crazy idea.

 

Yd2Qtua.jpg

 

 

I'm so happy that we have those super ultra smart intellectuals from the east coast to come down here and tell us how stupid we Texans are. What on earth would we do without them? We can't possibly learn from there already established examples and reinterpret it for our own uses to solve our own problems. They definitely have it all figured out up there in NYC where they love public transit so much that they let it fall apart after decades of corruption and miss management. But don't let that distract you from the fact that even if their own house isn't in order, it still means they know whats best for us.

 

*end sarcasm*

Edited by Luminare
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1 hour ago, Triton said:

 

I think even during the Planning Commission meetings I attended for the I-45 expansion, their biggest concern was the White Oak Bayou Greenway area. They realized that a certain portion will have a half dozen different bridges crossing over it, just north of UH-D. Their concern was it would destroy the view and the greenery this area currently has... but it sounded like they were going to try to make the best of it...

 

So... just ridiculous hyperbole.

 

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I really do think TXDOT is trying to make this project a win-win (or as I said earlier, at least it market it that way) especially with all the added park space and everything, which I do truly believe funding will come through on. There's just too many developers that would love to build next to something like this, as we've seen with Discovery Green.

 

One key point that I do agree with Speck though is connectivity. Perhaps this is just a Northside issue but I really do see the number of connections coming down. Perhaps overall, especially on the east side, I suppose we can see an increase in connections, at least safer ones.

 

One area I think he is dead wrong is that increased lanes don't reduce congestion. A lot of people point to I-10 but I seriously think I-10 is a very poorly designed highway. I've said this a thousand times but the big flaw with the freeway is that it forces people from the tollway to have to cross several lanes to exit to other off-ramps. What I do like about the I-45 project is that there are several direct connectors from the toll lanes to other freeways, such as the tollroad direct connect ramps to and from Beltway 8.

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On 3/1/2019 at 2:58 PM, Luminare said:

 

I detest this idea that if it isn't some perfect utopian dream of an urban environment then we shouldn't even try something at all. I don't think TXDoT's plan is perfect, but its the best plan we have yet.

 

the problem is that the solution that txdot has is proven to not fix anything. our very own I-10 is a perfect example of that. 290 will be a perfect example of that in about 2 years.

 

more lanes has been proven time and again to not be the answer.

 

the txdot plan is the only official plan, so therefore you are right, it is the best plan we have. that does not make it a good plan. 50 years ago, back before there was data to show that expanding freeways doesn't fix congestion, this would have been an excellent plan, but there is so much data out there that shows more lanes doesn't ease congestion, it shows that this is a bad idea.

 

rather than spending so much money on the only plan we have, why not put out bids for real solutions? 10 billion dollars could implement a really nice rail system. 10 billion dollars could create infrastructure to put a congestion tax in place.

 

these ideas and ideas other have had are only pie in the sky because txdot is unwilling to entertain them, or flesh them out.

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One thing that seems apparent doing a little Google research about Jeff Speck is that he is opposed to any and all highway expansion plans. I wonder how closely he even looked at this one. He probably is right though that projects like the park decks and the highline thing are being dangled to get people to go along. I think the park decks could happen (probably a trade-off with how fast we turn the east end of Buffalo Bayou into parkland), but the Pierce will most likely be sold off to individual developers and demolished.

 

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4 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

One thing that seems apparent doing a little Google research about Jeff Speck is that he is opposed to any and all highway expansion plans. I wonder how closely he even looked at this one. He probably is right though that projects like the park decks and the highline thing are being dangled to get people to go along. I think the park decks could happen (probably a trade-off with how fast we turn the east end of Buffalo Bayou into parkland), but the Pierce will most likely be sold off to individual developers and demolished.

 

Considering he specifically referenced how many homes will be taken for the project, I'd be willing to bet he put a fair amount of time into it.

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32 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Or that was just a stat furnished to him by the local people who invited him.

 

have you looked at the PDF of his presentation?

 

https://kinder.rice.edu/sites/g/files/bxs1676/f/downloads/Houston2019.pdf

 

while I'm sure he had a lot of things about which to speak, the presentation is readable, and you can follow along.

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39 minutes ago, samagon said:

have you looked at the PDF of his presentation?

 

https://kinder.rice.edu/sites/g/files/bxs1676/f/downloads/Houston2019.pdf

 

while I'm sure he had a lot of things about which to speak, the presentation is readable, and you can follow along.

 

Your sarcastic second sentence is not the type of approach that wins people to your side.

 

 

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1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Your sarcastic second sentence is not the type of approach that wins people to your side.

 

 

my intention wasn't that at all.

 

a lot of presentations need narration to follow. specifically because of the nature of presentations.

 

I'm sorry you took offense at my comment, and I am sorry that in the presence of proof that he did tailor the presentation to Houston, you find my comment to be your new reason to ignore his well structured feedback that is indeed specific for Houston.

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1 hour ago, samagon said:

my intention wasn't that at all.

 

a lot of presentations need narration to follow. specifically because of the nature of presentations.

 

I'm sorry you took offense at my comment, and I am sorry that in the presence of proof that he did tailor the presentation to Houston, you find my comment to be your new reason to ignore his well structured feedback that is indeed specific for Houston.

 

Why do you think I am ignoring his feedback? I actually agreed with some of what he said in my initial post.

 

I accept your apology, although the obvious sarcasm of your last comment inclines me to believe that your earlier comment was indeed also sarcastic, and that your apology is insincere.

 

On the presentation, I did like some of his before/after renderings, and am less enthusiastic about this project than I was before. I still think we should take it with a grain of salt, since he seems to be against freeways and automobiles in all circumstances (due to global warming, etc.). But the magnitude of the widened highway is enormous, and I'm less sure than previous that the elimination of the Pierce Elevated makes up for it.

 

 

Edited by H-Town Man
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3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Why do you think I am ignoring his feedback? I actually agreed with some of what he said in my initial post.

 

I accept your apology, although the obvious sarcasm of your last comment inclines me to believe that your earlier comment was indeed also sarcastic, and that your apology is insincere.

 

On the presentation, I did like some of his before/after renderings, and am less enthusiastic about this project than I was before. I still think we should take it with a grain of salt, since he seems to be against freeways and automobiles in all circumstances (due to global warming, etc.). But the magnitude of the widened highway is enormous, and I'm less sure than previous that the elimination of the Pierce Elevated makes up for it.

 

 

Why don’t we just redo everything around downtown and leave the rest of 45 as is? It seems that the downtown portion is the only one that makes a substantial difference to make up for the time and costs. 

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Yeah I’m def second guessing all of this. I feel that EaDo is taking off and here comes TxDOT to throw us back a decade for a couple of “possible” deck parks. And we haven’t mentioned the affect on public transit this will have for those that rely on the Green/Purple Line to come in and out of the city. This just seems like another version of the Boston Big Dig. It’s such a massive undertaking with small room for error. 

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