I-45 Rebuild (North Houston Highway Improvement Project)

[Luminare]

This is true; on the other hand, the railroad tracks are already there.

 

hmmm if i remember correctly i do believe there is a natural barrier as well.... some kind of river?

[samagon]

yeah, it's a great idea to continue making the psychological barriers bigger.

 

What says "Keep on your side of the fence" more:

 

a 4' white picket fence with like 3" gaps

 

-or-

 

an 8' fence with no gaps

 

The north side will suck, adding bigger barriers increase the psychological barrier, but I think the east side will be more tragic in this situation, as mentioned the north side already has railway, bayou, freeway cutting through and while it's not as bad as it has been in the past, it's still no where near where west, and south of downtown have come, and where the east is going right now. It's been probably half a century since the east of town has been ticking upwards, and now it's doing it, there's high profile stadiums that bring people over there (even if just to park their cars), people are moving into the area, people are going there for the nightlife experience.

 

Midtown has done well re-establishing itself even with the pierce being there, the east downtown district is starting to follow in the footsteps of midtown, I'd say they're a good 5 years lagging midtown, but what happens if you take away one whole blocks worth of area? Specifically where a lot of establishing has been happening?

Edited May 8, 2015 by samagon

[cspwal]

Depends on if they actually put the park deck over the trenched super-freeway or not.  If they do, it might make east downtown a part of downtown, with the park deck running down the middle like a promenade or something.

[samagon]

You're right, the park would help for sure. I think that's the most disappointing feature of the idea of re purposing the pierce elevated. Please don't get me wrong, the more green space we have in this town the better we are, but I think if this grand plan of re-aligning the freeways comes to fruition the focus needs to first be on securing funding for decking and park over 288/45/59, then and only then find and spend money on making pierce a park.

 

And maybe I'm misunderstanding all the people who want to see the pierce remain as a park, maybe they mean to see the decked park happen first, and then see pierce turned into a park, but that's not how I'm reading it, it reads to me like they are out for the pierce park and nothing else matters.

Edited May 8, 2015 by samagon

[cspwal]

I would be willing to have the lots under the current pierce elevated be sold and half of them stay parking lots if we could get that park deck built

[ADCS]

I would be willing to have the lots under the current pierce elevated be sold and half of them stay parking lots if we could get that park deck built

 

This is critical to the project. It is far more as a whole than the sum of its parts.

[Sparrow]

It's nice to have a well defined district. The edges that are created may actually be beneficial to the neighborhoods adjacent to Downtown/Midtown in the sense that each is clearly delineated. You wouldn't put a 40 story office building up in the Third Ward or Northside, but removing the Pierce makes Midtown just as attractive an option as Downtown for that same building. The edges that are created are Houston's form of de facto zoning.

[Slick Vik]

http://swamplot.com/wacky-txdot-i-45-redo-renderings-now-available-in-mind-boggling-video-format/2015-05-01/?ic_source=icma

Definitely helps gain some understanding on the project.

The one thing I think is an epic fail is the park on 45 between 10 and 610. A park between freeway lanes seems very unhealthy from a respiratory perspective.

[JLWM8609]

The one thing I think is an epic fail is the park on 45 between 10 and 610. A park between freeway lanes seems very unhealthy from a respiratory perspective.

 

That's all? What about the proposed disruption of the street grid in Third Ward by the to-be-trenched 59?

[cloud713]

I posted this like a week ago..?

[Slick Vik]

That's all? What about the proposed disruption of the street grid in Third Ward by the to-be-trenched 59?

That too. But the park in the middle of the freeway was a big wtf for me. Totally illogical. Destroying third ward is sad but you know what Kanye said about George bush. People on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale have zero political say.

[ADCS]

That's all? What about the proposed disruption of the street grid in Third Ward by the to-be-trenched 59?

 

To a lot of people (read: developers), that's a feature, not a bug. Divide et impera.

[samagon]

I may have said this earlier, but I'm more and more against this realignment (don't call it an expansion), they could and should do this cheaper.

 

As much as it sucks, they should keep the current alignment of everything and add more through lanes to 45. keep 45 elevated the whole way around downtown by removing the dallas dip and add at least 2 lanes in each direction. They can do this easily by expanding over the existing street grid between midtown and downtown, smooth the curve around the southwest side of downtown and connect into existing lanes. Remove the allen parkway exit from northbound traffic. remove the allen parkway entrance for southbound traffic, there's still the Houston street entrance/exit for 45 which is very accessible from allen parkway. while they're at it, remove the ramp from 59 southbound traffic to 45 northbound (direct all 45 northbound exiting from 59 southbound onto I-10 west). Remove the ramp from I-10 westbound to 45 southbound (direct all 45 southbound exiting from I-10 onto 59 southbound).

 

I know it sucks that freeways don't get removed, but to remove and make better one area to the detriment of other areas is, to be as polite as possible, f***** up.

[cloud713]

The downtown section is estimated to cost ~ 4 billion out of the 6 billion dollar budget for the whole project. Construction wouldn't start till around 2020

[Montrose1100]

I may have said this earlier, but I'm more and more against this realignment (don't call it an expansion), they could and should do this cheaper.

As much as it sucks, they should keep the current alignment of everything and add more through lanes to 45. keep 45 elevated the whole way around downtown by removing the dallas dip and add at least 2 lanes in each direction. They can do this easily by expanding over the existing street grid between midtown and downtown, smooth the curve around the southwest side of downtown and connect into existing lanes. Remove the allen parkway exit from northbound traffic. remove the allen parkway entrance for southbound traffic, there's still the Houston street entrance/exit for 45 which is very accessible from allen parkway. while they're at it, remove the ramp from 59 southbound traffic to 45 northbound (direct all 45 northbound exiting from 59 southbound onto I-10 west). Remove the ramp from I-10 westbound to 45 southbound (direct all 45 southbound exiting from I-10 onto 59 southbound).

I know it sucks that freeways don't get removed, but to remove and make better one area to the detriment of other areas is, to be as polite as possible, f***** up.

Adding more Elevated Lanes around Downtown would not be a step in the right direction, it would be a giant leap backwards.

Currently, besides the total number of vehicles on the freeway, the hold up on traffic is the freeway intersections, and how they connect (and where). Even if we had a 100 lanes added, there would still be congestion during rush hour. That's a fact of life. No matter what improvements happen, there is going to be traffic during rush hour in the morning and afternoon.

[mollusk]

Bah - what we really need is this...

 

[Luminare]

I may have said this earlier, but I'm more and more against this realignment (don't call it an expansion), they could and should do this cheaper.

 

As much as it sucks, they should keep the current alignment of everything and add more through lanes to 45. keep 45 elevated the whole way around downtown by removing the dallas dip and add at least 2 lanes in each direction. They can do this easily by expanding over the existing street grid between midtown and downtown, smooth the curve around the southwest side of downtown and connect into existing lanes. Remove the allen parkway exit from northbound traffic. remove the allen parkway entrance for southbound traffic, there's still the Houston street entrance/exit for 45 which is very accessible from allen parkway. while they're at it, remove the ramp from 59 southbound traffic to 45 northbound (direct all 45 northbound exiting from 59 southbound onto I-10 west). Remove the ramp from I-10 westbound to 45 southbound (direct all 45 southbound exiting from I-10 onto 59 southbound).

 

I know it sucks that freeways don't get removed, but to remove and make better one area to the detriment of other areas is, to be as polite as possible, f***** up.

 

yeah because adding more lanes really worked for Katy Freeway.... Adding more lanes always solves traffic problems!

[Luminare]

Thought this was an interesting idea. This was on ArchDaily today and the location is Seoul, South Korea.

 

http://www.archdaily.com/631007/mvrdv-to-transform-abandoned-highway-in-seoul-into-lush-skygarden/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[infinite_jim]

The debate about why certain sections are elevated and others are trenched is missing the logic derived from the existing conditions (and future alignment ROW) of the adjaceny impacts in order to get approval past the Federal EIS process; which is why it appears that the alignments at first glance look to favor some parts of town but one must look at a whole slew of issues (like where dense conglomerations of people actually live/work) but essentially, the geometry of the general layout of the city, a southwest oriented grid is going to generally favor southwest orientated sites versus those on the edge of this grid (or those areas impeded by grid disruptions). TXDOT (and the FHWA) have a fiscal responsibility not to waste time/money on amended proposals that won't fly through EIS (like expanding the Pierce Elevated over Pierce St.). This current proposal (even slightly modified) has a very good chance of getting approval without busting the tentative budget by not following such suggestions like extra entrances/exits, showy flyovers, expanded/tiered through lanes, fully interconnected sub-networks of managed lanes, or acrobatic splicing of cross streets through interchanges that would surely increase the project scope and complexity. Not to burst anyone's bubble and you really should submit a comment to TXDOT by 05/15/2015 but this is pretty much where the freeway re-alignments are going.

Edit:

As for the Pierce Elevated ROW, I'm not quite yet ready to reveal my position on the matter.

Edited May 14, 2015 by infinite_jim

[IronTiger]

5/15/15?? That's in two days. Where's a link to such a form?

[samagon]

The debate about why certain sections are elevated and others are trenched is missing the logic derived from the existing conditions (and future alignment ROW) of the adjaceny impacts in order to get approval past the Federal EIS process; which is why it appears that the alignments at first glance look to favor some parts of town but one must look at a whole slew of issues (like where dense conglomerations of people actually live/work) but essentially, the geometry of the general layout of the city, a southwest oriented grid is going to generally favor southwest orientated sites versus those on the edge of this grid (or those areas impeded by grid disruptions). TXDOT (and the FHWA) have a fiscal responsibility not to waste time/money on amended proposals that won't fly through EIS (like expanding the Pierce Elevated over Pierce St.). This current proposal (even slightly modified) has a very good chance of getting approval without busting the tentative budget by not following such suggestions like extra entrances/exits, showy flyovers, expanded/tiered through lanes, fully interconnected sub-networks of managed lanes, or acrobatic splicing of cross streets through interchanges that would surely increase the project scope and complexity. Not to burst anyone's bubble and you really should submit a comment to TXDOT by 05/15/2015 but this is pretty much where the freeway re-alignments are going.

Edit:

As for the Pierce Elevated ROW, I'm not quite yet ready to reveal my position on the matter.

 

I'm curious (mainly because I just don't know), but why would expanding the elevated over pierce street not get approval through the EIS process? 

[JLWM8609]

5/15/15?? That's in two days. Where's a link to such a form?

The public comment period has been extended until 5/31.

[IronTiger]

The public comment period has been extended until 5/31.

Still, does anyone have a link?

[JJxvi]

I may have said this earlier, but I'm more and more against this realignment (don't call it an expansion), they could and should do this cheaper.

 

As much as it sucks, they should keep the current alignment of everything and add more through lanes to 45. keep 45 elevated the whole way around downtown by removing the dallas dip and add at least 2 lanes in each direction. They can do this easily by expanding over the existing street grid between midtown and downtown, smooth the curve around the southwest side of downtown and connect into existing lanes. Remove the allen parkway exit from northbound traffic. remove the allen parkway entrance for southbound traffic, there's still the Houston street entrance/exit for 45 which is very accessible from allen parkway. while they're at it, remove the ramp from 59 southbound traffic to 45 northbound (direct all 45 northbound exiting from 59 southbound onto I-10 west). Remove the ramp from I-10 westbound to 45 southbound (direct all 45 southbound exiting from I-10 onto 59 southbound).

 

I know it sucks that freeways don't get removed, but to remove and make better one area to the detriment of other areas is, to be as polite as possible, f***** up.

 

Every highway expansion ever is for the benefit of one area to the detriment of another area.  The odd thing about this is that the area we're talking about benefitting is actually right there on the ROW instead of all the negative impact being at the construction point and all the positive impact being commuters from far away and owners of vacant land who can now develop sprawl to fill the capacity of the new freeway lanes.

[lockmat]

The experts have spoken!

 

Sorry HAIFers I did not believe in you. I guess I'm leaning towards not turning the Pierce Elevated into a park. I've created a clip from a recent ULI Houston discussion of two of the experts (Hines residential rep & VP of CBRE) that think it will really help the two neighborhoods.

 

Enjoy

 

[cloud713]

All 4 panelists (Midway, CBRE, Hines, Houston First) at the downtown redevelopment meeting today were supportive of the 45 reroute and enthusiastic about the changes the project could bring to downtown and the surrounding areas.

The experts have spoken!

 

Sorry HAIFers I did not believe in you. I guess I'm leaning towards not turning the Pierce Elevated into a park. I've created a clip from a recent ULI Houston discussion of two of the experts (Hines residential rep & VP of CBRE) that think it will really help the two neighborhoods.

 

Enjoy

 

thanks for the video! you didn't want to include Suzanne or Peter's insight on the Pierce removal?

Edited May 14, 2015 by cloud713

[lockmat]

thanks for the video! you didn't want to include Suzanne or Peter's insight on the Pierce removal?

 

I don't think they said anything, or did I miss/forget about it? :-/

[cloud713]

you must of missed it. all four commented on the Pierce Removal question.

[Luminare]

Best part was when he couldn't believe TxDOT actually came up with it lol. Everyone in that room knows TxDOTS normal mentality

[Montrose1100]

The experts have spoken!

Sorry HAIFers I did not believe in you. I guess I'm leaning towards not turning the Pierce Elevated into a park. I've created a clip from a recent ULI Houston discussion of two of the experts (Hines residential rep & VP of CBRE) that think it will really help the two neighborhoods.

Enjoy

http://youtu.be/v4x5pfVJ9nw

I'm glad someone else can see the bigger picture. Hopefully the Pierce Elevated Park won't gain an traction and will go right back into the blue where it came from.