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Hard Rock Hotel & Condominiums Proposed for Uptown

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1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Ok, cheap is a relative term. The other locations we are talking about (Post Oak, Discovery Green) would probably cost triple that.

 

 

Agreed; cheap is a relative term.  FWIW, HCAD has the McNair site on Post Oak also at $80/square foot. The vacant parcel at Post Oak and the Loop is $125/square foot.  HCAD values vacant land near Discovery Green in the $150 - $200/square foot range.

54 minutes ago, Timoric said:

I like this one in Baltimore if it is the same brand.

 

 

1.jpg

 

That is a Cafe and we're talking about a hotel and condos, but, yes, that is the same brand.

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Definitely an interesting location. I'm guessing this is a resort style place, right?  Looks like nearly of their properties are either near/on beaches or casinos, but they do have a New Orleans and NYC location "coming soon".  


The mega-block just north of the Marriott Marquis downtown would be perfect. It could be the interesting downtown hotel pool scene district. 

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1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Agreed; cheap is a relative term.  FWIW, HCAD has the McNair site on Post Oak also at $80/square foot. The vacant parcel at Post Oak and the Loop is $125/square foot.  HCAD values vacant land near Discovery Green in the $150 - $200/square foot range.

 

That is a Cafe and we're talking about a hotel and condos, but, yes, that is the same brand.

 

Actual costs are more reliable; the site for the 40 story high-rise at Post Oak and San Felipe was over $300/SF, as was the site for the Marriott Marquis on DG. The McNair site valuation seems low to me, possibly because it's a large tract, possibly because they couldn't get good recent sale data in that area, or if someone protested using sale data along Richmond.

 

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6 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

 

If your good friends are causing you this much embarrassment over not having a W Hotel, you need to find yourself some better friends.

 

jekyll_hide-7834001.jpg

@Houston19514 always trying in earnest to present the last word per se... even with uncalled for provocative responses.  trust me, it's probably best to keep the "other side of me" in check...

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10 hours ago, htownproud said:

I think this is a ridiculous location and can't imagine it gets built.  That said, some other nice hotels in the area aren't in exactly prime locations either--e.g., Houstonian, St. Regis, Omni.  Granted these hotels are very different than a Hard Rock hotel.  

I think for luxury hotel developments, being a little of the main drag is not necessarily a bad thing. I think St. Regis is nicely tucked away as is the Houstonian. For a Hard Rock though I don’t see how it could ever work out. If a “failing” W brand can’t land in Houston in a good location, then how does a mediocre brand like Hard Rock land in a silly location on the backside of Uptown. A significant development here would help to obscure the view of the Mercer. Worst building in Houston. 

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I agree it's a weird site now but this will be a prime spot in the future after Mcnair development. Sometimes it takes developments to long to come to fruition here. Frustrating.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, HOUCAJUN said:

I agree it's a weird site now but this will be a prime spot in the future after Mcnair development. Sometimes it takes developments to long to come to fruition here. Frustrating.

I keep seeing comments about the McNair development and how the two together will transform this area.  Question #1:  Will the McNair development really have enough presence to make a Hard Rock Hotel not seem out-of-place?  Question #2:  Are they really in close enough proximity to complement each other? 

 

Edited by MarathonMan
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10 hours ago, ZRFkris said:

I think for luxury hotel developments, being a little of the main drag is not necessarily a bad thing. I think St. Regis is nicely tucked away as is the Houstonian. For a Hard Rock though I don’t see how it could ever work out. If a “failing” W brand can’t land in Houston in a good location, then how does a mediocre brand like Hard Rock land in a silly location on the backside of Uptown. A significant development here would help to obscure the view of the Mercer. Worst building in Houston. 

 

HAHA OMG yes that darn Mercer condo building...what in the world were they thinking?! and I cannot believe the lack of windows....it resembles more a storage tower than a condo building... #kooky

 

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23 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Actual costs are more reliable; the site for the 40 story high-rise at Post Oak and San Felipe was over $300/SF, as was the site for the Marriott Marquis on DG. The McNair site valuation seems low to me, possibly because it's a large tract, possibly because they couldn't get good recent sale data in that area, or if someone protested using sale data along Richmond.

 

 

What's the actual cost of the subject site?

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Oh wow! Interesting and makes sense...but yikes...! Thank you for that info...i have never heard that before!!!

 

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1 hour ago, Houston19514 said:

 

What's the actual cost of the subject site?

 

It sold in 2015 for about $98/SF. Add a little for demolition and your effective cost is right at $100/SF.

 

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So I wonder if the Hard Rock Cafe downtown at Bayou Place will stay put or move to this thing when/if completed?

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6 hours ago, Urbannizer said:

In planning and design phase. Will take two years to build.

They need to plane to relocate it

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Posted (edited)
On 6/13/2019 at 1:55 PM, gene said:

I have completely changed my mind on this...

the reason is obvious...

If they build a Hard Rock Hotel this close to the Galleria then the likely next step is that Planet Hollywood Restaurant would reopen inside the Galleria (*not affiliated with Hard Rock but they would just want a piece of the pie in Uptown...) and that means i would get to have their Cap'n Crunch Chicken Crunch Tenders whenever i wanted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (i don't know how to cook so don't point out the fact that i am linking a recipe...) 😵

https://topsecretrecipes.com/planet-hollywood-chicken-crunch-copycat-recipe.html

(yes none of this post makes sense but the CCCT's are THAT good that i can dream at least haha!)

 

You do know there was a Planet Hollywood inside the Galleria from 1997-2000ish, right?

 

Edited by clutchcity94
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Given what I assume is HRH's target demo, the site's main draw must be its proximity to the Men's Club.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/29/2019 at 9:44 AM, clutchcity94 said:

You do know there was a Planet Hollywood inside the Galleria from 1997-2000ish, right?

 

hence the: "wish they would reopen inside the Galleria" 🤪

(i have lived on mccue rd across the street from the galleria for 24 years...i used to go to PH all the time for these!) 

Edited by gene
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Unfortunately some developers just don't get it. This is a project that should be happening in downtown near Minute Maid and the Convention center.

Or on top of the Galleria. Not on an island a mile from the Galleria and the Post oak Westheimer intersection. Actually right across the street in the Dillards parking lot is where it should go in

the Galleria, but my preference would be near Discovery Green. Back it up to the Embassy suites on the vacant lot.

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16 minutes ago, bobruss said:

Back it up to the Embassy suites on the vacant lot.

 

I think you forgot to add to the end, "and completely conceal Embassy as its a crap looking building."

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15 minutes ago, bobruss said:

Unfortunately some developers just don't get it. This is a project that should be happening in downtown near Minute Maid and the Convention center.

Or on top of the Galleria. Not on an island a mile from the Galleria and the Post oak Westheimer intersection. Actually right across the street in the Dillards parking lot is where it should go in

the Galleria, but my preference would be near Discovery Green. Back it up to the Embassy suites on the vacant lot.

If they didn't "get it", they probably wouldn't be able to obtain financing. I think its a good location for condos (where the owners will most certainly use cars as their main form of transportation) and a lower end hotel where most of the guest would most likely prefer to go to the Gallaria than the opera or symphony...  

 

Luminair, notice that it isn't going in FiDi or the Midtown East/Park Ave, it's going in Times Sq where lower end tourist like to stay exactly like what they are targeting here.

 

 

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On 6/12/2019 at 2:05 PM, ZRFkris said:

I would think ballpark district downtown would be better for a development like this and the W would fit in this location especially if they could create walkable retail to connect to McNair project and Post Oak.

That area is walkable as I live in this area and usually walk to 24 Hr Fitness and eateries in the area on Richmond and Sage and even to the Galleria on a cool day. 😁  Also there are other developments that will be coming up on the other side of Sage and along McCue plus the 59/610 project will make it easy access to get there.

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7 minutes ago, Luminare said:

 

I think you forgot to add to the end, "and completely conceal Embassy as its a crap looking building."

I was trying not  to  be too snarky, but that was going to be my next line, if I hadn't used a little constraint. Besides its Monday morning.

That was my intended result.

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8 hours ago, htownbro said:

That area is walkable as I live in this area and usually walk to 24 Hr Fitness and eateries in the area on Richmond and Sage and even to the Galleria on a cool day. 😁  Also there are other developments that will be coming up on the other side of Sage and along McCue plus the 59/610 project will make it easy access to get there.

We shall see I guess. I don’t quite see the same potential for the area is all, Uptown lacks entertainment venues.

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Thats a long walk most of the year just to get to Richmond and Sage, with nothing to do along the way except look at trash on the ground and hot asphalt parking lots. From June until late October it would be prohibitive with the heat and humidity. I just can't see some young couple telling their friends they'd walk over from the Hard Rock to meet them for dinner at Mortons. People don't even walk in the main part of the Galleria Post Oak Westheimer area. They do their walking inside the mall from the parking lot to the store they need to go to.

People are not going to walk a mile to get to the Galleria. Especially through that maze of apartments, hotels, service stations and traffic. How would they get home from their shopping spree with all those purchases. 

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12 hours ago, bobruss said:

Thats a long walk most of the year just to get to Richmond and Sage, with nothing to do along the way except look at trash on the ground and hot asphalt parking lots. From June until late October it would be prohibitive with the heat and humidity. I just can't see some young couple telling their friends they'd walk over from the Hard Rock to meet them for dinner at Mortons. People don't even walk in the main part of the Galleria Post Oak Westheimer area. They do their walking inside the mall from the parking lot to the store they need to go to.

People are not going to walk a mile to get to the Galleria. Especially through that maze of apartments, hotels, service stations and traffic. How would they get home from their shopping spree with all those purchases. 

Well of course not now but the walkability score may increase for that area when other developments are completed around this area.  Once McNair development is completed, this hotel will be much closer and also new midrise apartments will be developed next to Bristol condos on McCue.  I do agree from June to October, the heat will be too unbearable to walk that far. 😅

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Posted (edited)

Uptown/Galleria just doesn’t seem set up to be walkable, even as future development occurs.  It isn’t designed like Downtown, Midtown, Museum District, or even Montrose for walkability.

Edited by MarathonMan
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23 minutes ago, htownbro said:

Well of course not now but the walkability score may increase for that area when other developments are completed around this area.  Once McNair development is completed, this hotel will be much closer and also new midrise apartments will be developed next to Bristol condos on McCue.  I do agree from June to October, the heat will be too unbearable to walk that far. 😅

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I understand that you walk that distance but you are probably wearing your shorts and t shirt to go to 24 hour fitness but I just don't think that most people will take that walk. I would probably do it occasionally if I lived in the area because I don't mind walking. The problem with those developments you are describing are all apartments and hotels which doesn't really compare to retail shops, galleries, restaurants, and service oriented locations. It's just not the same as walking down Westheimer from Woodhead to Main street.

Thinking about that, thats a pretty fair distance of continuous eye catching entertainment. I hope you see how I'm thinking. 

People will walk if the weather is nice and there are things to enjoy and interrupt the walk. Another great area for walkability is 19th street in the Heights and some other areas that have developed around Yale and the waterworks and other developments. Eado is another walkable area. 😊

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On 7/1/2019 at 9:31 AM, bobruss said:

Unfortunately some developers just don't get it. This is a project that should be happening in downtown near Minute Maid and the Convention center.

 

 

Then they wonder why some projects fail.

In my dream world this would be best Main Street square. Maybe across from forever 21 on that corner of Dallas and Main (Food store).  Near Root square would be good too. Extend the activity further south. 

 

For someone who spent tons of freetime in and around the galleria, I unfortunately don't get excited about new things there anymore. The vehicular congestion on Westheimer and post oak blunts the excitement for me. I don't want to drive there and don't want to take a bus there. Walking across the street there is out of the question. Easy highway access? Ha!!

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Posted (edited)

I agree spread out the entertainment zone in downtown is a good idea. 
I'm curious, is this the developer of the Embassy suites and the dual brand 12 story hotels next to the Marriott Marquis?

Edited by bobruss

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I will say that living and working in Uptown I walk (and ride a bike) to alot of places...including Mod Pizza on Richmond as well as 24Hr Fitness *when my friends make me pretend to work out...the galleria, uptown park, Moxies, Whole Foods and Ninfa's and even Target....AND River Oaks District as well! (YES the sidewalk on on the north side of Westheimer between the freeway and ROD can be improved and i bet that is coming soon enough...)

I would say the new Post Oak Blvd makes it all extremely walkable and more and more i see people walking everywhere around here...so while some may not think its as walkable as other parts of houston i will say that thanks to all the new condos, apartments, businesses and especially all the hotels, you will see people walking around quite a bit and believe it or not its a pleasurable experience haha! In fact I truly feel like i live in THE best part of all of Houston! 

I look forward to Post Oak BLVD project being completed and while i still agree this is just the craziest location for a Hard Rock Hotel...who knows, maybe it will work in the long run...(Sage sidewalks are actually pretty good btw!)

only time will tell. 

 

and in response to the convention center comment...i think The Post Oak Hotel has a large convention area...maybe Tillman could take over Post Oak Corner and do something along those lines there for something to expand on what he has already done?

 

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39 minutes ago, gene said:

...maybe Tillman could take over Post Oak Corner and do something along those lines there for something to expand on what he has already done?

 

 

If there was a HAIF bingo game, Gene mentioning redeveloping Post Oak Corner would definitely be a square 😂

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I'm a walker too. Houstonians are afraid they are going to melt in the rain and turn into a puddle when its above 90 degrees.  I try to walk four miles a day.  One year I walked across England, from the Irish Sea to the North Sea, about 215 miles and it rained 12 of the 13 days I was on my trek.  People used their legs to get places until the automobile took over our cities and our lives.  Walking a half mile, if that, from the Hard Rock to the Galleria should not be a challenge.  I agree that there aren't enough entertainment oriented venues in Uptown. The Galleria itself is often touted as the number one tourist attraction in Houston.  Pretty depressing. 

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50 minutes ago, Skyboxdweller said:

I'm a walker too. Houstonians are afraid they are going to melt in the rain and turn into a puddle when its above 90 degrees.  I try to walk four miles a day.  One year I walked across England, from the Irish Sea to the North Sea, about 215 miles and it rained 12 of the 13 days I was on my trek.  People used their legs to get places until the automobile took over our cities and our lives.  Walking a half mile, if that, from the Hard Rock to the Galleria should not be a challenge.  I agree that there aren't enough entertainment oriented venues in Uptown. The Galleria itself is often touted as the number one tourist attraction in Houston.  Pretty depressing. 

 

I live off McCue right off Richmond and if I want to go to Chipotle or Mod with my friends they demand we drive, it can't even be a 1/4 mile. People in this city do not walk. 

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People will and do walk if the built environment is conducive to it, even in Houston.

 

 

Distance from origin to destination isn't the only factor. Places that are pleasant to walk in tend to have a few things in common:

 

- Enclosure: the place is visually defined by vertical elements (trees, buildings, etc.)

 

- Transparency: there's stuff to see beyond the enclosure (i.e. windows in street facing facades)

 

- Scale: there are details that are visible/interesting to a person on foot moving at a walking pace

 

- Isolation from (fast) vehicle traffic: either a landscape buffer or significant traffic calming

 

By building wide roads with building set far back from the right of way, most streets in Houston lack pretty much all of these elements. 

 

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2 hours ago, richfish said:

 

If there was a HAIF bingo game, Gene mentioning redeveloping Post Oak Corner would definitely be a square 😂

 

haha sorry!!!!!!!!!!!! so true!!! one day when it happens though i think my head will blow up!!! 💣💥‼️ 🤪

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2 hours ago, gene said:

I will say that living and working in Uptown I walk (and ride a bike) to alot of places...including Mod Pizza on Richmond as well as 24Hr Fitness *when my friends make me pretend to work out...the galleria, uptown park, Moxies, Whole Foods and Ninfa's and even Target....AND River Oaks District as well! (YES the sidewalk on on the north side of Westheimer between the freeway and ROD can be improved and i bet that is coming soon enough...)

I would say the new Post Oak Blvd makes it all extremely walkable and more and more i see people walking everywhere around here...so while some may not think its as walkable as other parts of houston i will say that thanks to all the new condos, apartments, businesses and especially all the hotels, you will see people walking around quite a bit and believe it or not its a pleasurable experience haha! In fact I truly feel like i live in THE best part of all of Houston! 

I look forward to Post Oak BLVD project being completed and while i still agree this is just the craziest location for a Hard Rock Hotel...who knows, maybe it will work in the long run...(Sage sidewalks are actually pretty good btw!)

only time will tell. 

 

and in response to the convention center comment...i think The Post Oak Hotel has a large convention area...maybe Tillman could take over Post Oak Corner and do something along those lines there for something to expand on what he has already done?

 

 

Long-time lurker here and finally decided to sign up so I could quote this. People have been ****ting on Uptown for too long and I'm glad someone living there can say it like it is. I also own a unit just off of Westheimer and McCue and agree with everything Gene is saying. Yeah, things are more spread out compared to other places named, but in my book, uptown still beats those other places. Probably coming from an East Asian background makes the difference here. Over there, people prefer living in glitzy places with lots of lights and food options. You eat a lot and then you eat some more and then you digest and take a stroll in the city, the park, or along some body of water with the thousands of other people.

 

Many places in Houston are just too gritty looking and lack tall buildings even though things are closer together in some of those places. Downtown checks off the looks department but shuts down apart from working hours. Now, if I do want to make the infrequent trip, it's not bad at all and the BRT along with the BUTC will make it even easier in the near future. All the Asia-towns are in west Houston making Uptown pretty central for Asians. For my food and people watching options, I can check that off too. After getting downstairs and a three minute walk, I'm at the Galleria without having to fight traffic and search for parking and can get Chick-fil-a and eat at the Waterwall Park or I can spend more to dine-in at a fancy restaurant. No dip in people walking around due to the hot weather neither. For the rest of uptown, they're really making an effort to beautify it, like putting up more lights and trees, which leads to my next point....

 

1 hour ago, jmitch94 said:

 

I live off McCue right off Richmond and if I want to go to Chipotle or Mod with my friends they demand we drive, it can't even be a 1/4 mile. People in this city do not walk. 

 

People don't want to put up with the inconvenience of walking in summer heat if the walk isn't going to be enjoyable. Like if there's no other people walking, no nice tall buildings to see and to give shade. And the killer: having to walk next to an ugly, empty parking lot in a strip center.

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I'm all for the Galleria uptown area  becoming more walkable, but one of it's main faults just like the city's, is that it's hard to overcome an area that was designed for the car and not pedestrians. Angostura said it very succinctly. The area just wasn't planned to become what it has become. Parking lots kill walks. You can only look at parked cars for so long before it gets monotonous. Once the trees mature it will help, and once that giant strip center on Post Oak and Westheimer gets turned into a mixed use multi tower development hopefully with residential, retail and office components maybe a movie theater or how about a nice park. That would help immensely.

Fortunately there is a movement to try and rectify this, but it won't be easy. It will still have acres of asphalt parking lots major thoroughfares with multi lane congestion, and it will take time for all of the trees to develop  a canopy that will help immensely and give more shade to those who will walk.

I agree it's getting better, but its just starting at such a disadvantage. It's impressive how much has been done in the Galleria to make it more livable and it will only get better. Remember not that long ago there were farms on much of this property. 

 I just like the closeness of the buildings and the grid of the streets downtown a little more. I also like the the blend of old and new in architecture. 

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I'm just excited the southern end of the Galleria area is starting to get in on the development! 😁

 

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20 minutes ago, bobruss said:

I'm all for the Galleria uptown area  becoming more walkable, but one of it's main faults just like the city's, is that it's hard to overcome an area that was designed for the car and not pedestrians. Angostura said it very succinctly. The area just wasn't planned to become what it has become. Parking lots kill walks. You can only look at parked cars for so long before it gets monotonous. Once the trees mature it will help, and once that giant strip center on Post Oak and Westheimer gets turned into a mixed use multi tower development hopefully with residential, retail and office components maybe a movie theater or how about a nice park. That would help immensely.

Fortunately there is a movement to try and rectify this, but it won't be easy. It will still have acres of asphalt parking lots major thoroughfares with multi lane congestion, and it will take time for all of the trees to develop  a canopy that will help immensely and give more shade to those who will walk.

I agree it's getting better, but its just starting at such a disadvantage. It's impressive how much has been done in the Galleria to make it more livable and it will only get better. Remember not that long ago there were farms on much of this property. 

 I just like the closeness of the buildings and the grid of the streets downtown a little more. I also like the the blend of old and new in architecture. 

 

I wonder how much of that parking lot is going to disappear over where the Post Oak Poker Room used to be when Zadok Jewelers builds over it. I imagine Uptown will get more dense as it expands like with this hotel coming up at the southern end. I think B-cycles will help with the expansion of Uptown, but there are no stations there right now. Why is this? They're really putting in an effort to make the area more walkable and share-bikes would help. Is it really that dangerous to ride in this area? Memorial Park already has a couple of stations, so this would also help to connect Uptown and Memorial Park even more.

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1 hour ago, bobruss said:

I'm all for the Galleria uptown area  becoming more walkable, but one of it's main faults just like the city's, is that it's hard to overcome an area that was designed for the car and not pedestrians. Angostura said it very succinctly. The area just wasn't planned to become what it has become. Parking lots kill walks. You can only look at parked cars for so long before it gets monotonous. Once the trees mature it will help, and once that giant strip center on Post Oak and Westheimer gets turned into a mixed use multi tower development hopefully with residential, retail and office components maybe a movie theater or how about a nice park. That would help immensely.

Fortunately there is a movement to try and rectify this, but it won't be easy. It will still have acres of asphalt parking lots major thoroughfares with multi lane congestion, and it will take time for all of the trees to develop  a canopy that will help immensely and give more shade to those who will walk.

I agree it's getting better, but its just starting at such a disadvantage. It's impressive how much has been done in the Galleria to make it more livable and it will only get better. Remember not that long ago there were farms on much of this property. 

 I just like the closeness of the buildings and the grid of the streets downtown a little more. I also like the the blend of old and new in architecture. 

 

This is the main reason I chose Downtown/EaDo over Uptown when I moved a few years back.  When I think of Uptown I think of traffic, parking lots and busy boulevards.... oh and more traffic.  Love Downtown's density. 

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16 hours ago, paul2834 said:

 

I wonder how much of that parking lot is going to disappear over where the Post Oak Poker Room used to be when Zadok Jewelers builds over it. I imagine Uptown will get more dense as it expands like with this hotel coming up at the southern end. I think B-cycles will help with the expansion of Uptown, but there are no stations there right now. Why is this? They're really putting in an effort to make the area more walkable and share-bikes would help. Is it really that dangerous to ride in this area? Memorial Park already has a couple of stations, so this would also help to connect Uptown and Memorial Park even more.

 

Great idea for the b-cycles to be in Uptown! I like that idea...i actually ride my bike 2 hrs every day (my condo across from galleria to discovery green and back just to do it) and many times i have friends that would love to tag along but don't have a bike...this would help!!! I am going to see how you go about putting in a request! 

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Hi Gene,

 

Thank you for your feedback! We are working on expanding further into Uptown. You hit the nail on the head, though–we need local funding partners to help us do it. If you ever get a lead on someone in the area who would be willing to put forward a one-time ~$100K cost for a station, please let us know!

 

Best,

 

---

Henry Morris

Development & Communications

Houston Bike Share

m. 713.205.2247 | o. 713.865.3662

hmorris@houstonbikeshare.orghoustonbcycle.com

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part of the benefit of memorial park now falling under the uptown TIRZ (i believe that's the correct authority) will include much better bike and pedestrian connectivity from uptown to memorial park. i'd assume bike sharing would be a part of that plan.

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I think they should at least start with a Whole Foods Post Oak location, then a "front of Galleria" location (maybe just adjacent to the Westin/Cheesecake factory entrance)...then an Uptown Park location as well! 

 

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On 7/2/2019 at 3:13 PM, paul2834 said:

Downtown checks off the looks department but shuts down apart from working hours. 

 

This has changed quite a bit in recent years. Welcome to the forum, btw.

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