San Antonio Saints Or Marlins?

[ProHouston]

According to the Express-News website, the owner of the Florida Marlins was in SA yesterday looking into the possiblity of moving from Miami to SA. From the story it sounds like everyone's getting all excited again... can we hold off on the parade for a moment?

I think football in Central Texas is a perfect fit, baseball however is a different story. I think you need a much larger population base to support baseball. Compare 10 football games at 65,000 attendence (650,000) to 81 baseball games at 35,000 attendence (2,835,000). Who would be buying all these baseball tickets? That's 2 million more people a season! And the NFL is already questioning whether SA is a big enough market for football.

I think it's a little far-fetched, anyone else?

Express News article

[Jeebus]

I hope they don't keep the name Marlins if they do move to San Antonio - but they won't move there, so what am I worrying about?

[MidtownCoog]

I think Drayton would block this with everthing he has.

[Subdude]

Something like seven different cities have expressed interest in the Marlins, probably the same ones that tried for the Expos. Vegas and Portland are the front-runners. My guess is that the Marlins will end up staying where they are.

It's hard to read the situation with the Saints. Tagliabue seems intent on keeping them in NO for now, even though there's a good argument that the franchise has lost value. The NFL has also just committed to one or two franchises for LA. Maybe they're thinking that the Saints can eventually move there. That way LA would have both Saints and Angels.

[Jeebus]

..LA would have both Saints and Angels.

That would be a slick combo. It worked for Baltimore (Ravens & Orioles).

[DJ V Lawrence]

Something like seven different cities have expressed interest in the Marlins, probably the same ones that tried for the Expos. Vegas and Portland are the front-runners. My guess is that the Marlins will end up staying where they are.

It's hard to read the situation with the Saints. Tagliabue seems intent on keeping them in NO for now, even though there's a good argument that the franchise has lost value. The NFL has also just committed to one or two franchises for LA. Maybe they're thinking that the Saints can eventually move there. That way LA would have both Saints and Angels.

Also, Puerto Rico is trying to lure the Marlins permanently there as well.

Not only do I think the Marlins will move to San Antonio permantly, but I think the Marlins have a better chance at moving there, than the Saints moving there. (I can't see the Saints leaving New Orleans for sentimental reasons). I also think when it comes down to San Antonio and Los Angeles needing a football team, the NFL will try to screw San Antonio first chance they get by handing a team to L.A.. The ONLY chance of S.A. having a permanent NFL team at this point is probably the Saints

[RedScare]

The NFL is not trying to screw SA so much as desparately trying to force a team into LA. Remember, this is all about the TV revenue. LA will grow the TV contract more than SA will. American Business Journals conducted a study in 2001 about cities with spare spending money to support relocated or expansion teams. NFL, because there are only 10 home games and they have revenue sharing, can go into smaller markets. MLB is the hardest to support. The NFL could easily go into SA. MLB might have a harder time.

BTW, everyone is sensitive about the Saints in NO, but realistically, NFL in NO is history. It was a small market to begin with, but now only 75,000 residents remain in NO. Speaking from a purely business sense, NO can no longer support the team. The only question is when they pull the plug. Louisiana was paying the Saints to stay there, and they surely have more important things to spend that money on now.

[Subdude]

They are probably trying to hold off on making a decision about the Saints for as long as possible. First, if they move too quickly there will be a lot of bad publicity about abandoning NO etc etc. Second, any new facilities in LA won't be ready for a few years even though the NFL has committed to return. In any event, I agree with Red that in the long run the Saints are gone. Remember, Benson was making noises about moving long before that hurricane hit. He won't get his wish to move the team to his home town of San Antonio, but the consolation prize will be LA.

It's funny that NO rushed to finish repairs on the Superdome while there are still so many other things in the city, like hospitals, that have not been repaired. What are their priorities there?

[DJ V Lawrence]

It's funny that NO rushed to finish repairs on the Superdome while there are still so many other things in the city, like hospitals, that have not been repaired. What are their priorities there?

The priority is the Saints over the hospitals. It's not right, and it's not politically correct, but when you see referendums on 300 million-dollar facilities, and you hear about city councils in cities being scared that someone may leave their town, who is it I'm describing: schools and teachers, hospitals, law enforcement, or a sports team?

Sports teams are more important in our society. It's who you see and cheer for every week on tv that counts, not who actually makes a difference in people's lives...

[Subdude]

Point taken, but you would think the people of New Orleans would recognize, more than anyone, the value of schools, hospitals, businesses, and infrastructure over an NFL franchise.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Point taken, but you would think the people of New Orleans would recognize, more than anyone, the value of schools, hospitals, businesses, and infrastructure over an NFL franchise.

I do think New Orleans sees all their facitities and institutions as priorities for the city to get back on their feet. However, you have to see New Orleans from a big-American-city-perspective. I would have never heard of Green Bay, or known what state it was in, if it weren't for the Packers. Sacremento, state capital of California, and home of the Sacremento Kings. The Kings are the only story that you regularly hear on the news about Sacremento. Utah Jazz. San Antonio Spurs. Connecticut Sun. Positive national media is a huge boost to being recognizable as a big city or commercial state compared to a small town or quiet place. Sports teams are an easy way of gaining some kind of national media (easier is that team is good, and people support that team.) ....and the more professional teams you have representing your hometown, the more national coverage you will recieve.

Ou society doesn't cheer for doctors, nurses, teachers, and skyscrapers, or wear their shirts as much as we do cheer for our football teams every Sunday.

[banking214]

Also, Puerto Rico is trying to lure the Marlins permanently there as well.

Not only do I think the Marlins will move to San Antonio permantly, but I think the Marlins have a better chance at moving there, than the Saints moving there. (I can't see the Saints leaving New Orleans for sentimental reasons). I also think when it comes down to San Antonio and Los Angeles needing a football team, the NFL will try to screw San Antonio first chance they get by handing a team to L.A.. The ONLY chance of S.A. having a permanent NFL team at this point is probably the Saints

Marlins will not be going to San Antonio. From what I have been reading and hearing, either Vegas or Portland will be the winner. San Antonio would not be able to support baseball as well as other cities. Tom Hicks and Drayton both would push the Marlins somewhere else. They don't want to see a saturated marketplace.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Marlins will not be going to San Antonio. From what I have been reading and hearing, either Vegas or Portland will be the winner. San Antonio would not be able to support baseball as well as other cities. Tom Hicks and Drayton both would push the Marlins somewhere else. They don't want to see a saturated marketplace.

I think Vegas is the best place to support a team other than San Antonio. Remember though that S.A. is twice the population of Vegas. Sure, it'd be the only professional team in the state, but also remember that the Spurs/Rockets/ Mavs rivalry helps all three marketplaces. I don't think McClain or Hicks have anything to lose. In fact, I think McClain has more to GAIN by havig an in-state rival in the National League...

[zaphod]

i dunno if they are gonna go to vegas. seems like the league might be worried about sports betting corrupting the team, and besides portland would probably be a better market since people there dont have the worlds best casino/entertainment district to distract them from sports...

[Subdude]

If Florida moves, I'm thinking that Charlotte is going to be the underdog city to beat. Vegas is large, but the demographics are all wrong. It's not the kind of family-friendly population that MLB needs. That, and it's going to be hard to get the suckers out of the casinos to watch a baseball game in the desert. Portland has already made it pretty clear that they are not going to be spending public funds on a stadium, so that rules them out.

Charlotte has great demographics for baseball - very family oriented - and they don't have the local competition problem like San Antonio. Best of all, the locals have already proved willing to cough it up for new sporting facilities on the public dime.

You read it here first.

[zaphod]

Charlotte is really getting to be a important city now i guess. Anyways, if you think about it, that region needs a team.

[Subdude]

This week MLB told the Marlins not to talk to officials in Las Vegas about relocating there, so it looks like that puts Vegas out of the running.

[DJ V Lawrence]

This week MLB told the Marlins not to talk to officials in Las Vegas about relocating there, so it looks like that puts Vegas out of the running.

Honestly didn't see that coming. Why would MLB do that to Vegas? Gambling? Tourist town?

By the way, how does Tampa Bay have a baseball team. It's not exactly the most glamorous baseball field in America, U know...

[Subdude]

MLB didn't give a public explanation, but the assumption is because of the gambling.

I have no idea why that franchise was awarded to Tampa Bay.

[tigereye]

I have no idea why that franchise was awarded to Tampa Bay.

Because Tampa Bay had a stadium built and ready for a baseball team. Not only this, but the Tampa Bay area is also home to huge mass of professional baseball players, not to mention a ton spring training camp sites and minor league baseball teams as well. The Tampa Bay area is actually prefect for baseball.

Tampa acually pulled a "San Antonio" and built a baseball domed stadium, The Florida Suncoast Dome...now Tropicana Field, before they had a team. In the late 80's,

Tampa officials believed the White Sox were on their way down here when crys for a new venue to replace old Comiskey went unsettled in Chicago. But in the 11th hour, Jerry Reisdorf was able to swing a deal to hastly build a ballpark next door....thus new Comiskey was born.

.....with a deal for the Sox in place to stay in Chicago, officials in Tampa decided to continue to build the Dome anyways with the hopes of attracting a team. Back then, the state of Florida did not have a baseball team.

This thought process almost produced success again a few years later as Tampa was a finalist for the 1992 round of MLB exapnsion. But Tampa officials watched as they were passed up for the more glamorous Floridian neighbor to the southeast, Miami, with promises of a new ballpark there. That as we can tell, still hasnt happened for the Marlins in Miami.....

A year later, in 1993, the San Francisco Giants nearly packed up and moved to Tampa Bay and the now completed Suncoast Dome. Giants officials were frustrated that the team had seen 3 referendums fail in San Francisco and San Jose to build a new ballpark. But before the team could pack up, the Giants signed Barry Bonds, a move which brought fans out to the ballpark in droves and made the Giants competitive once again. With a renewd faith that the team could survive in SF, new owner Peter Magowan decided to pursue a privately-financed ballpark in the South China Basin section of downtown San Francisco. Thus Pac Bell Park....or now AT&T Park, was born and Tampa was spurned again.

Eventually, in 1996, Vince Naimoli would purchase an expansion franchise for the Tampa Bay area. Then he proceeded to do anything and everything an owner could do to screw this franchise up and turn the fans away.

Now a new owner is in power and he is devoted to winning. Former Stros GM Gerry Hunsicker is his teams new president...thats a nice start. Other plans he has are to again renovate Tropicana Field and reportedly change the name of the franchise altogether.....to possible the Tampa Bay Rays.

Currently the team's website sports its new advertising campaign for 2006.....UNDER CONSTRUCTION. By 2007, the Rays will look nothing like the loser franchise you see now.

[elecpharm]

speaking of expansion into various cities, 'bizjournals' has an interesting economic perspective on the cities that are prime for expansion and those that should be avoided.

bizjournal article

regarding tampa

[DJ V Lawrence]

speaking of expansion into various cities, 'bizjournals' has an interesting economic perspective on the cities that are prime for expansion and those that should be avoided.

bizjournal article

regarding tampa

VERY interesting report. I know if Houston didn't land the MLS, we probably would have been in the top 5 best metros for a new team. What surprised me more than anything else was that Houston wasn't even in the top 10, and we're the fourth largest city in America, and the largest city without an NHL franchise. I was also kinda surprised that San Antonio wasn't mentioned at all. I do have one prediction: That the Kansas City Wizards, Pittsburgh Penguins, and Florida Marlins will all announce relocation within the next three years if none get a new stadium.

I think San Antonio may want to pursue an expansion MLS team first to ensure a place on the sports map when the Spurs aren't playing. If they keep pushing as they had when the last mayor was in office, I'd expect San Antonio to be successful. I think the Wizards will move to Philidelphia, the Penguins (which at first I thought would never happen) will move to Houston after Les Alexander successfully bought them out, and the Marlins would get the stadium that they want in Miami.

But if San Antonio want another team to go with MLS and NBA, I'd push for da Marlins. I'm sure S.A and Austin would support the team.

[Subdude]

speaking of expansion into various cities, 'bizjournals' has an interesting economic perspective on the cities that are prime for expansion and those that should be avoided.

bizjournal article

regarding tampa

Good article, thanks.

I agree with DJV that the Marlins will probably end up with a new stadium in Miami. Now they're talking to Oklahoma City, which makes it sound like they're getting desperate.

[NewMND]

Well hopefully Houston does get a NHL team, not because I like hockey, I just want Houston to be represented in all 5 major league sports. And then Texas will be the only state to have 2 cities with all 5.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Well hopefully Houston does get a NHL team, not because I like hockey, I just want Houston to be represented in all 5 major league sports. And then Texas will be the only state to have 2 cities with all 5.

I never even thought of that!

Cities currently with teams in the NBA,MLB,NFL,NHL, and MLS

New York City

Chicago

Dallas

Denver

Boston

Washington D.C.

If you included the WNBA:

Chicago

New York City

Washington D.C.

But San Antonio's only got an NBA/WNBA team. In men's sports though, they tied us in national championships (Two NBAs). It's kinda sad that the Comets got more championships, cause, like, they've only been around for,like, seven years.

Back on subject: Tigereye brought up a point that has me questioning sports in general. St. Louis and Tampa Bay both built domes in their cities to lure teams, and they worked. The Rams and Devil Rays. Now look at San Antonio. What exactly did San Antonio gain by building the AlamoDome in the first place?

They built the AlamoDome, don't currently have ANY franchises playing there, and the Spurs started asking for a new stadium, like, less than 4 years after they moved there.

-What would it take for San Antonio to finally get an MLS and NFL team playing in the AlamoDome?

-Did San Antonio gain or lose money after the AlamoDome was built?

-How do San Antonio's citizens feel about the AlamoDome's state, and the fact that the mayor seems to be doing nothing to get an MLS team when the city was so close to getting one?

I'm wondering if San Antonio would even want to pursue a MLB team knowing that they'd have to spend even more on a baseball stadium and still would have a empty AlamoDome to maintain.

[Subdude]

I'm not convinced an NHL franchise would be a viable proposition in Houston. For that matter, I'm not convinced the NHL is a viable proposition anywhere.

The top five US metro area all have more than five sports franchises, but when you move down to the second-tier metros, only Boston, Dallas, and Denver have five pro teams. The others generally have 3-4 teams (not counting WNBA), so by that measure Houston is about par for the course. I see the point about having five franchises, but great cities are never judged by the number of their pro teams.

The methodology used in that article was interesting, if easy to shoot holes in. I had some fun downloading the spreadsheet and playing with the numbers.

As for San Antonio, if they want a pro team I'm thinking their best bet would be MLS. Too bad they sprung for the Alamo dome, but the NFL won't be doing any expansion in the near future until the situation is settled with LA, which has already been promised 1-2 teams. The Alamo Dome was a risky bet, and they lost. MLB might still be a possibility, but they will practically have to promise to build a field with 100% tax dollars.

[RedScare]

Actually, San Antonio may not have lost as much as it appears. NFL teams do not bring new revenue into a city. They merely move existing revenue from other places to them. The resaon for that is NFL teams draw from the local populace, so they are taking disposable income that normally would have been spent in restaurants, etc.

San Antonio, meanwhile, uses it's Alamodome to draw special events, such as Final Fours and bowl games. These events bring in outside visitors, who spend new money in SA, helping the tourist economy. So, the failure to land a team has probably not hurt the economy at all, just perhaps local pride.

[Subdude]

Marlins are focusing on San Antonio.

MARLINS' RELOCATION

San Antonio under `serious consideration'

BY BARRY JACKSON

bjackson@MiamiHerald.com

San Antonio has become the focus of Marlins' relocation discussions, Major League Baseball president Bob DuPuy said Wednesday.

Asked if San Antonio has emerged as the front-runner, DuPuy said, ``I would not go that far. All I would say is that right now, that seems to be the temporal focus. I think it's too early to have a front-runner.''

The Marlins have spoken with officials with San Antonio, Portland and Norfolk, Va., but the talks with San Antonio have progressed further than the others.

Marlins president David Samson said the team and San Antonio officials are speaking three or four times a week.

Link to article

And stadium financing plan is forthcoming:

Bexar steps up to plate with stadium plan

Web Posted: 03/03/2006 12:00 AM CST

Tom Orsborn

Express-News Staff Writer

County Judge Nelson Wolff said Thursday he will present a stadium financing plan next week to the Florida Marlins, a step that may lead to more intense relocation negotiations between the county and the Major League Baseball franchise.

"We look forward to discussing this plan with Judge Wolff," Marlins president David Samson said. "It's the first step of a long, interesting process to see if there is a match."

Wolff said his proposal mirrors the plan the county used to build the AT&T Center for the Spurs, using public and private funding to raise the $300 million he estimates it would take to build a stadium.

The Marlins would choose the site, Wolff said.

"The general thinking is the I-35 Austin corridor would work, but the Marlins may have other ideas," Wolff said.

Link

[Kam]

But San Antonio's only got an NBA/WNBA team. In men's sports though, they tied us in national championships (Two NBAs). It's kinda sad that the Comets got more championships, cause, like, they've only been around for,like, seven years.

actually, no. San Antonio actually has two and a half championships.

And they are World Championships, not National Championships. Pro sports are considered "world."

Don't know why, it's just the way it is.

and when i mean two and a half, they won a championship in 1999 during a lockout, shortened season.

k, thx. :closedeyes:

Spurs Suck.

It would be better if MLB would just contract two teams.

[ProHouston]

I still don't think SA could withstand an MLB team and 81 dates a year. Furthermore, $300 million is WAY too low to build a major league ballpark, lastly, things move so slow in SA and the city leaders are so worried about spending $ on anything that they feel should be privately financed, that I just don't see a new stadium being built. They didn't build the AT&T Center in the middle of nowhere for nothing. Also, does anyone remember the PGA resort fiasco? That's SA government, they need to stick with the NFL where the stadium is already in place.