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Chase Motor Bank At 212 Milam St.


houstontexasjack

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1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

I think that is the highest and best use, with ground floor retail as long as they can work around the flood issue. Someone may buy it to hold as parking until the residential market is better, or may put a parking garage on part of the site.

 

 

GFR would be nice, but considering the flooding issue I doubt that would happen, unless ground floor was about 10 feet higher than current ground.

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I don't see it in this thread but I've been saying for several years now that this would be the perfect location for a HEB with multi-family on top. The first real major grocer into the downtown market in a while. You have so many units that have only recently come online or are going to come online and, I don't think the Washington Ave or 288 location will be getting this slice of the market. And to protect the HEB from flooding which this property does contend with, you could simply make the ground floor garage parking as they've been doing with their other locations.

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Since this is literally on top of the bayou, it seems that doing the foundation for anything of any size is going to be pretty challenging.  Sure, it's doable - but what's the cost delta between that and a more conventional location?  Any engineers care to weigh in?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Offers were due May 7th, so it is probably under contract now and we'll know in a few months who gets it. I would not be surprised if Hines buys it and holds it until they finish their other two projects in the neighborhood and can assess market conditions at that point. I hate to think that the neighborhood is so reliant on one developer but they've shown the best understanding of how to do downtown development that benefits the surrounding neighborhood as well as themselves (which is self-interest well understood, because benefitting the neighborhood is ultimately self-benefit if you are there for the long term). With their HQ two blocks away they have a strong interest in seeing that this ends up high quality and not another get-rich-quick development where someone throws up an ugly garage with or without some token retail and maybe-oh-maybe we'll eventually put a highrise on top of or next to it. Another good name to see here would be Marvy Finger. Worse case scenario is Camden buys it and sits on it for twenty years, dithering about what to do.

 

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4 hours ago, CrockpotandGravel said:



Google map of 212 Milam St, the lot of the Chase Motor Bank in downtown Houston on the corner of Congress.
UhTOSks.jpg



From the Loopnet listing:

Total Lot Size     1.45 Acre or 63,117 SF of land, per survey

Full City block - Possible uses: high rise residential, hotel,office, & mixed use - Fronts Congress, Louisiana, Franklin, & Milam




From the brochure:

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kUS4POn.jpg

 

The building labeled KBR is not the KBR building, right?

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I’m not in any hurry to see the bank building destroyed. I.M Pei designed it to be the child of the TCB Tower which was the father and the building building next door with the parking garage was the mother. That’s how he described it. They are a trio and were designed that way. 

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5 minutes ago, Gator80 said:

I’m not in any hurry to see the bank building destroyed. I.M Pei designed it to be the child of the TCB Tower which was the father and the building building next door with the parking garage was the mother. That’s how he described it. They are a trio and were designed that way. 

 

Not to crap on the recently deceased, he has some amazing work in his portfolio, but I don't think that a child of those towers should be celebrated.  To me both of those towers are unattractive.  If this was a drive-through bank in function that was a few miles outside of downtown, I might feel differently.

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33 minutes ago, Gator80 said:

I’m not in any hurry to see the bank building destroyed. I.M Pei designed it to be the child of the TCB Tower which was the father and the building building next door with the parking garage was the mother. That’s how he described it. They are a trio and were designed that way. 

 

Now that i see it... i cant unsee it... It is a cool bank. Wish it wasnt located in such a prime spot...

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44 minutes ago, Gator80 said:

I’m not in any hurry to see the bank building destroyed. I.M Pei designed it to be the child of the TCB Tower which was the father and the building building next door with the parking garage was the mother. That’s how he described it. They are a trio and were designed that way. 

 

Do we know for a fact that Pei himself designed it? His name was on a lot of things that his partners designed. It is hard for me to imagine him designing a drive-thru bank.

 

Even if he designed it... even if Frank Lloyd Wright himself designed it... a drive-thru bank is hostile to an urban neighborhood.

 

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On 5/31/2019 at 12:25 PM, H-Town Man said:

Do we know for a fact that Pei himself designed it? His name was on a lot of things that his partners designed. It is hard for me to imagine him designing a drive-thru bank.

 

Not sure if I understand your point.
As a trained architect, designing a drive-through bank shouldn't have been too difficult a task for him. But, as you mention, he had partners. 
If people are big enough to be a name, of course they'll have assistants. What counts is their stamp of approval. Do you think Edith Head designed each and every outfit that she was given credit for? Didn't Raymond Loewy employ drafters and designers? Heck, even Andy Warhol made no secret that many of his paintings were done in a "factory".
Whether Pei drafted the blueprints, drew a rough sketch, floated an idea, or just gave a curt nod at the finished product is a moot point. It's an I. M. Pei building. If he didn't think so, he had plenty of time to take his name off from it.

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1 hour ago, dbigtex56 said:

Not sure if I understand your point.
As a trained architect, designing a drive-through bank shouldn't have been too difficult a task for him. But, as you mention, he had partners. 
If people are big enough to be a name, of course they'll have assistants. What counts is their stamp of approval. Do you think Edith Head designed each and every outfit that she was given credit for? Didn't Raymond Loewy employ drafters and designers? Heck, even Andy Warhol made no secret that many of his paintings were done in a "factory".
Whether Pei drafted the blueprints, drew a rough sketch, floated an idea, or just gave a curt nod at the finished product is a moot point. It's an I. M. Pei building. If he didn't think so, he had plenty of time to take his name off from it.

 

You are saying that the mere fact that I.M. Pei gave his approval to this drive-thru bank makes it an "I.M. Pei building" in the same sense that a building he actually designed and put thought into is an "I.M. Pei building?" I couldn't agree less. If all he did was give a curt nod to it, how does that make it notable? We are interested in I.M. Pei works because we want to see Pei's design mastery, not because we fetishize his name or are in some sort of "collect them all" mindset.

 

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34 minutes ago, H-Town Man said:

 

You are saying that the mere fact that I.M. Pei gave his approval to this drive-thru bank makes it an "I.M. Pei building" in the same sense that a building he actually designed and put thought into is an "I.M. Pei building?" I couldn't agree less. If all he did was give a curt nod to it, how does that make it notable? We are interested in I.M. Pei works because we want to see Pei's design mastery, not because we fetishize his name or are in some sort of "collect them all" mindset.

 

Not trying to be difficult here, but how do we know? Unless we have video footage of the architect sweating over his t-square and drafting table, how can we know who designed which part?
And speaking of FLW and fetishizing, his earliest works are oohed and ahhed over, when by any rational standard they're pretty unremarkable. It shouldn't be surprising if one of Pei's (admittedly) smaller buildings constructed after his talent had fully matured is of interest.
If I'm following your logic correctly, it goes like this: You like Pei. You hate drive-through banks. Therefore, Pei cannot have designed a drive-through bank.

 

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3 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

You are saying that the mere fact that I.M. Pei gave his approval to this drive-thru bank makes it an "I.M. Pei building" in the same sense that a building he actually designed and put thought into is an "I.M. Pei building?" I couldn't agree less. If all he did was give a curt nod to it, how does that make it notable? We are interested in I.M. Pei works because we want to see Pei's design mastery, not because we fetishize his name or are in some sort of "collect them all" mindset.

 

 

When an architect puts their stamp on a drawing of any kind then it does legally become the building of "said architect". Even in the biggest of firms with multiple partners there is usually one partner that is typically the trusted design lead of the group that will give their graces on the project and in that moment they take ownership of it (thats part of the responsibility of being a leader btw. Whether you are highly involved in a particular thing or everything.), even if that doesn't come in the form of a stamp. As far as the rest of this? I don't believe this is what the others here are suggesting. The fact that his name is attached to the building, does make it at least interesting. Is it a masterpiece? Not really. Is it an interesting building for its type? Yeah it actually is. Is it a unique building from a particular time and particular mindset of how cities should be designed and constructed? Most definitely. Should it be razed or kept? Depends on what ideas people have for it. Like all the old gas stations being transformed into unique things, maybe this little building has life left in it with a good idea, and maybe someone has an even better idea that requires it to be razed. We don't know yet, and we should withhold judgement until then. I also like the bit historical revisionism we have been doing regarding modernism and designing in the rising age of the car, in general. Its unwise to view history through the lens of our values today as its unfair to those who lived before us who could have never had the foresight to see what we see today. In fact, many architects (including I.M.Pei) not only embraced the car (Le Corb considered the car as a model of how we should design buildings), to at least being interesting in how one designs the experiences of a building to incorporate the car. It truly was a complete revolution in how one approached buildings, design, and life as a whole. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it never had merit or it doesn't have any elements that are true or truisms.

 

2 hours ago, dbigtex56 said:

Not trying to be difficult here, but how do we know? Unless we have video footage of the architect sweating over his t-square and drafting table, how can we know who designed which part?
And speaking of FLW and fetishizing, his earliest works are oohed and ahhed over, when by any rational standard they're pretty unremarkable. It shouldn't be surprising if one of Pei's (admittedly) smaller buildings constructed after his talent had fully matured is of interest.
If I'm following your logic correctly, it goes like this: You like Pei. You hate drive-through banks. Therefore, Pei cannot have designed a drive-through bank.

 

 

I believe the terms you are looking for to describe the logic would be: "Emotional Reasoning", and "Dichotomous Reasoning (Black-or-White Thinking)".

Edited by Luminare
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11 hours ago, dbigtex56 said:

Not trying to be difficult here, but how do we know? Unless we have video footage of the architect sweating over his t-square and drafting table, how can we know who designed which part?
And speaking of FLW and fetishizing, his earliest works are oohed and ahhed over, when by any rational standard they're pretty unremarkable. It shouldn't be surprising if one of Pei's (admittedly) smaller buildings constructed after his talent had fully matured is of interest.
If I'm following your logic correctly, it goes like this: You like Pei. You hate drive-through banks. Therefore, Pei cannot have designed a drive-through bank.

 

 

If you read a few posts up, you will see that I merely questioned whether Pei designed this, without asserting anything. I said "Do we know for a fact that Pei designed this?" I never said "Pei cannot have designed a drive-thru bank."

 

Also, note that my last post was in response to your suggestion that even if Pei "only gave a curt nod to it" does not change its status. I was challenging whether a building that a great architect only gave a curt nod to would be worth preserving. The post was within the context of a hypothetical discussion and should have been read as such.

Edited by H-Town Man
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7 hours ago, Luminare said:

 

When an architect puts their stamp on a drawing of any kind then it does legally become the building of "said architect". Even in the biggest of firms with multiple partners there is usually one partner that is typically the trusted design lead of the group that will give their graces on the project and in that moment they take ownership of it (thats part of the responsibility of being a leader btw. Whether you are highly involved in a particular thing or everything.), even if that doesn't come in the form of a stamp. As far as the rest of this? I don't believe this is what the others here are suggesting. The fact that his name is attached to the building, does make it at least interesting. Is it a masterpiece? Not really. Is it an interesting building for its type? Yeah it actually is. Is it a unique building from a particular time and particular mindset of how cities should be designed and constructed? Most definitely. Should it be razed or kept? Depends on what ideas people have for it. Like all the old gas stations being transformed into unique things, maybe this little building has life left in it with a good idea, and maybe someone has an even better idea that requires it to be razed. We don't know yet, and we should withhold judgement until then. I also like the bit historical revisionism we have been doing regarding modernism and designing in the rising age of the car, in general. Its unwise to view history through the lens of our values today as its unfair to those who lived before us who could have never had the foresight to see what we see today. In fact, many architects (including I.M.Pei) not only embraced the car (Le Corb considered the car as a model of how we should design buildings), to at least being interesting in how one designs the experiences of a building to incorporate the car. It truly was a complete revolution in how one approached buildings, design, and life as a whole. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it never had merit or it doesn't have any elements that are true or truisms.

 

 

I believe the terms you are looking for to describe the logic would be: "Emotional Reasoning", and "Dichotomous Reasoning (Black-or-White Thinking)".

 

Luminare, I was wondering when you were going to arrive with a 300 word post in which you pretentiously decide every question. We are obviously not talking about what is "legally" considered Pei's building, but whether merely having his name on it makes it worth preserving when it is not the highest and best use of some pretty valuable land and does not contribute to an urban historic district that is probably Houston's only walkable neighborhood. These, by the way, would be my reasons for razing it, not "just because I don't like it," and I think these are more than just the "values of today." I like how, as usual, you give a bunch of opinions but never commit yourself to either side of the question at hand, viz., "Should it be preserved or not?"

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6 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Luminare, I was wondering when you were going to arrive with a 300 word post in which you pretentiously decide every question. We are obviously not talking about what is "legally" considered Pei's building, but whether merely having his name on it makes it worth preserving when it is not the highest and best use of some pretty valuable land and does not contribute to an urban historic district that is probably Houston's only walkable neighborhood. These, by the way, would be my reasons for razing it, not "just because I don't like it," and I think these are more than just the "values of today." I like how, as usual, you give a bunch of opinions but never commit yourself to either side of the question at hand, viz., "Should it be preserved or not?"

 

I tend to agree with H-Town Man here. Even if IM Pei designed it himself with some grand vision in mind, it's a completely unremarkable looking early 80s one-story commercial building with no significant Houston history to it, and it's not an efficient use of a parcel in downtown Houston in the 21st Century.

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22 minutes ago, Reefmonkey said:

 

I tend to agree with H-Town Man here. Even if IM Pei designed it himself with some grand vision in mind, it's a completely unremarkable looking early 80s one-story commercial building with no significant Houston history to it, and it's not an efficient use of a parcel in downtown Houston in the 21st Century.

 

Seconded 

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On 5/31/2019 at 11:35 AM, Gator80 said:

I’m not in any hurry to see the bank building destroyed. I.M Pei designed it to be the child of the TCB Tower which was the father and the building building next door with the parking garage was the mother. That’s how he described it. They are a trio and were designed that way. 

 

On 5/31/2019 at 5:19 AM, CrockpotandGravel said:

kzKdkhh.jpg

 

I hope this is true, as it makes me feel a lot better about the swastika on the roof.

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2 hours ago, phillip_white said:

I hope this is true, as it makes me feel a lot better about the swastika on the roof.

 

Chase must be in cahoots with Volkswagen. Occasionally, the mask slips. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-ceo/volkswagen-supervisory-board-condemns-ceos-ebit-macht-frei-remark-idUSKCN1QW2HC

 

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...
3 hours ago, CREguy13 said:

It looks like this site closed this month and was sold to Woodbranch - the developer of Market Square Tower.  I would not be upset if there was another MST quality project here...


I guess the challenges are:

 

1- how to incorporate this with the bayou
2- how to construct around the corner of the bayou

3- street level activity yet built to withstand certain flooding in extreme floods

4- making the structure sound with flooding and eroding banks

Edited by Avossos
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3 hours ago, CREguy13 said:

It looks like this site closed this month and was sold to Woodbranch - the developer of Market Square Tower.  I would not be upset if there was another MST quality project here...

 

I assume that they haven't sold MST yet? That worries me slightly that they won't go very tall to preserve MST views.  That said, their MST investment (and this land investment) would both benefit from development here, so I wonder if they decide to go short to protect MST or just go tall as most views are going away with the Preston anyway.

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19 minutes ago, kbates2 said:

 

I assume that they haven't sold MST yet? That worries me slightly that they won't go very tall to preserve MST views.  That said, their MST investment (and this land investment) would both benefit from development here, so I wonder if they decide to go short to protect MST or just go tall as most views are going away with the Preston anyway.

 

If the land sold for what it's worth, they will have to go tall in order to make a profit. Also, say the second building is as tall as the first, the apartments in the second building will have equally good views as the first building. So what you lose on the first, you gain on the second. They could also sell the current building before they build the second.

 

My worry is that it will have a crummy ground floor that doesn't add anything to Market Square, similar to MST. But GFR in that neighborhood is a more attractive proposition now than it was in 2014.

 

 

Edited by H-Town Man
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