Blue Dogs Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Good afternoon everyone in the HAIF Family. I'm assuming some of y'all have heard about this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/03/27/this-is-not-mexico-texas-official-criticizes-judge-speaking-spanish https://www.newsweek.com/speak-english-not-mexico-county-commissioner-tells-county-judge-texas-1376411 Want to know everyone's thoughts on this controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intencity77 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Moved topic to Local Politics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intencity77 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Not really shocking when most people have been sexist and ageist toward her since elected, even most on this forum. This is nothing but common old, white man racism and ignorance at work. Chambers County? Please! That’s straight up podunk country anyway. Regardless, half of my family speaks both English and Spanish and my husband as well. All of whom were born in the US. “Commissioner” Mark Tice is the real joke folks and nothing but an ignorant POS, the same stenchy kind that put the likes of Abbott as Governor and Trump as President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefmonkey Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Tice's remarks are absolutely inexcusable in any way. We don't have an official language in this country, and we do have people in this county who speak only Spanish or understand Spanish better than they do English, and they need to be served by our county government as well. I'd ask Tice why he isn't taking Rosetta to learn Spanish so he can better serve a larger number of his constituents. And also, she's from Columbia, not Mexico, assuming that everyone who speaks Spanish is Mexican is as racist as it is ignorant. As far as sexism, if people have been sexist towards her on this forum that's terrible. I haven't seen it, but of course it's highly likely I haven't seen every post about her. Regarding ageism on this forum, again, I haven't seen every post about Hidalgo, but I think we need to be careful not to turn every critique of a candidate who happens to be female and a person of color as some "ism" that indicates bigotry. The county judge is an important position with wide-ranging duties, including emergency response for the third most populous county in the United States. It is entirely reasonable to expect that someone shouldering that burden have both broad and deep managerial experience, something that no person could possibly have accrued at 27 years old and working as a medical translator. Pointing this out isn't ageism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 hours ago, Reefmonkey said: Tice's remarks are absolutely inexcusable in any way. We don't have an official language in this country, and we do have people in this county who speak only Spanish or understand Spanish better than they do English, and they need to be served by our county government as well. I'd ask Tice why he isn't taking Rosetta to learn Spanish so he can better serve a larger number of his constituents. And also, she's from Columbia, not Mexico, assuming that everyone who speaks Spanish is Mexican is as racist as it is ignorant. As far as sexism, if people have been sexist towards her on this forum that's terrible. I haven't seen it, but of course it's highly likely I haven't seen every post about her. Regarding ageism on this forum, again, I haven't seen every post about Hidalgo, but I think we need to be careful not to turn every critique of a candidate who happens to be female and a person of color as some "ism" that indicates bigotry. The county judge is an important position with wide-ranging duties, including emergency response for the third most populous county in the United States. It is entirely reasonable to expect that someone shouldering that burden have both broad and deep managerial experience, something that no person could possibly have accrued at 27 years old and working as a medical translator. Pointing this out isn't ageism. Excellent remarks. What sucks about some peoples opinions about the whole english speaking questions is that....lets be reasonable....its not like they are wrong! They have a great point. I would encourage people to watch an episode of Anthony Bourdain's parts unknown in regard to Houston. Not only do Spanish or international populations (both young and old) want to learn English as quickly as possible just to fit in, it even bares out in statistics that if a person does not at least attempt to learn English within a year or so of being in this country then they will almost certainly fall through the cracks and into poverty, and that motivates them to learn it as quickly as possible. We can't let people fall like that into poverty or slip through the cracks, especially if its at least 95% preventable (thats normally the most realistic we can hope for). Nobody wants a bunch of people stacking at zero. As much as the left may cry foul that the right doesn't mind that, I would have to say really think about that for a second. People stacking up at zero hurts us all. When the hierarchy gets too steep to climb then its bad for everyone. Instead because they don't know how to properly convey the argument at hand (because most people don't have the time to really think it through, and how can you blame them when we all have busy lives), they will inevitably fall into very shallow arguments/interpretations. Could we learn more Spanish in an effort to make the ease of entry and upward mobility of better for those that come over here...maybe? That's a worthwhile discussion that we have no clue what the answer is. I will say what is easier? That we forcefully re-engineer our society to benefit one group of people who are coming to our country? or do we ask them to integrate by speaking the majority language in this country? There is probably a balance there and some give and take which could be discussed in another thread. I also haven't seen any remarks on this forum as far as sexism or any kind of bigotry for that matter. This always ends up being the case. If you make a claim...provide evidence! If there is that kind of bigotry I'll stand with you against it and I'm sure @Reefmonkey would do they same. Ageism is a bit weak in my opinion. For one thing its perfectly reasonable to discriminate between different ages. Why? If we really pushed this "idea" of ageism to its limits, then what? Do those at age 1 (who can't even form many words or sentences) can match an opinion that of someone that is 70? It just doesn't hold up. Your argument on this at the end, @Reefmonkey, is not only the arguments I've seen on this forum, but its mine as well. I'm barely scratching the surface of what there is to know about this world and in my field, and just myself in general, and I'm 29. It would be one thing if this Hidalgo was a complete wiz kid, with an unbelievable amount of experience for her age, but not only is she 27, but she literally has done nothing! Nothing that could be anything to relate experience to the position she holds now. She won because of straight ticket voting. Thats it. The Dems saw the wave coming and grabbed a board. Fair enough. It was a good strategy. Its the only reason why nearly all the judge positions flipped instantly. Arguing against for Hidalgo doesn't have to be done with tried and lazy arguments about her exterior superficial appearance when it can easily be done with a sound rational argument using proper thinking. Then again. Maybe she can prove us all wrong. Its not like youth hasn't done wonders before, but the odds are incredibly stacked that it won't. I'll hold official judgement until the next election cycle. Lets give her a chance, but I'm incredibly skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbates2 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Yeah, I don't vote straight tickets at all and think that this is the big issue with them. Emmett was supported across lines as he had proved to be very good at his job. He didn't lose it for something he did, he lost it for something somebody else did and being affiliated with a national party that has little influence on the most local leaders. I was very upset that he lost his job and that she won with no experience whatsoever. If she had no real work experience whatsoever and was a 55 year-old white man, I would call her election ridiculous as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I called out some on Reddit who were complaining about her during the ITC stuff. The gist of why they hated her seemed to boil down to "she didn't sound confident." They said Ed would have sounded tougher. In other words, they needed someone louder with a deeper voice to say the same things she was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefmonkey Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Well, reddit is a cesspool of trolls and misogynists, so that wouldn't surprise me if people there were using "needs a deeper voice" as dogwhistle (and an obvious one at that) for "needs to be a man." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 53 minutes ago, brian0123 said: I called out some on Reddit who were complaining about her during the ITC stuff. The gist of why they hated her seemed to boil down to "she didn't sound confident." They said Ed would have sounded tougher. In other words, they needed someone louder with a deeper voice to say the same things she was saying. Have you ever listened to yourself in a recording? Its actually really interesting to just listen to yourself and what happens between what you say you are confident in and what you aren't. Whenever I listen to myself speaking about something that I know, with confidence, and with authority than my voice actually tends to go deeper. When its something I know less about, with less confidence, and less authority it starts to go higher. Voice does matter. From radio announcers to singers (men and women), a broader more wide ranging, confident voice is not only more appealing to the ear, but also sounds more confident. We are biologically wired to pick up on these things. So when you say that some don't like her because she doesn't sound confident, I believe them. Not exactly surprised. If she were to speak with authority then she wouldn't have a problem, but she doesn't exactly command authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefmonkey Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Luminare said: Have you ever listened to yourself in a recording? Its actually really interesting to just listen to yourself and what happens between what you say you are confident in and what you aren't. Whenever I listen to myself speaking about something that I know, with confidence, and with authority than my voice actually tends to go deeper. When its something I know less about, with less confidence, and less authority it starts to go higher. Voice does matter. From radio announcers to singers (men and women), a broader more wide ranging, confident voice is not only more appealing to the ear, but also sounds more confident. We are biologically wired to pick up on these things. So when you say that some don't like her because she doesn't sound confident, I believe them. Not exactly surprised. If she were to speak with authority then she wouldn't have a problem, but she doesn't exactly command authority. Maybe she needs to take a page from Laverne Hooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 14 hours ago, Luminare said: Excellent remarks. What sucks about some peoples opinions about the whole english speaking questions is that....lets be reasonable....its not like they are wrong! They have a great point. I would encourage people to watch an episode of Anthony Bourdain's parts unknown in regard to Houston. Not only do Spanish or international populations (both young and old) want to learn English as quickly as possible just to fit in, it even bares out in statistics that if a person does not at least attempt to learn English within a year or so of being in this country then they will almost certainly fall through the cracks and into poverty, and that motivates them to learn it as quickly as possible. We can't let people fall like that into poverty or slip through the cracks, especially if its at least 95% preventable (thats normally the most realistic we can hope for). Nobody wants a bunch of people stacking at zero. As much as the left may cry foul that the right doesn't mind that, I would have to say really think about that for a second. People stacking up at zero hurts us all. When the hierarchy gets too steep to climb then its bad for everyone. Instead because they don't know how to properly convey the argument at hand (because most people don't have the time to really think it through, and how can you blame them when we all have busy lives), they will inevitably fall into very shallow arguments/interpretations. Could we learn more Spanish in an effort to make the ease of entry and upward mobility of better for those that come over here...maybe? That's a worthwhile discussion that we have no clue what the answer is. I will say what is easier? That we forcefully re-engineer our society to benefit one group of people who are coming to our country? or do we ask them to integrate by speaking the majority language in this country? There is probably a balance there and some give and take which could be discussed in another thread. I also haven't seen any remarks on this forum as far as sexism or any kind of bigotry for that matter. This always ends up being the case. If you make a claim...provide evidence! If there is that kind of bigotry I'll stand with you against it and I'm sure @Reefmonkey would do they same. Ageism is a bit weak in my opinion. For one thing its perfectly reasonable to discriminate between different ages. Why? If we really pushed this "idea" of ageism to its limits, then what? Do those at age 1 (who can't even form many words or sentences) can match an opinion that of someone that is 70? It just doesn't hold up. Your argument on this at the end, @Reefmonkey, is not only the arguments I've seen on this forum, but its mine as well. I'm barely scratching the surface of what there is to know about this world and in my field, and just myself in general, and I'm 29. It would be one thing if this Hidalgo was a complete wiz kid, with an unbelievable amount of experience for her age, but not only is she 27, but she literally has done nothing! Nothing that could be anything to relate experience to the position she holds now. She won because of straight ticket voting. Thats it. The Dems saw the wave coming and grabbed a board. Fair enough. It was a good strategy. Its the only reason why nearly all the judge positions flipped instantly. Arguing against for Hidalgo doesn't have to be done with tried and lazy arguments about her exterior superficial appearance when it can easily be done with a sound rational argument using proper thinking. Then again. Maybe she can prove us all wrong. Its not like youth hasn't done wonders before, but the odds are incredibly stacked that it won't. I'll hold official judgement until the next election cycle. Lets give her a chance, but I'm incredibly skeptical. We certainly shouldn't be re-engineering our society for any incoming group. They will add to the melting pot in due time, just as all other incoming groups have over our history. As long as we maintain English as a necessity to get along and succeed in our society any incoming groups will adapt. It's perhaps not commonly remembered, but during the mid-to late 1800's large areas of the US spoke German and other related languages. Here in Texas, German and other central European languages were dominant for a while, including in San Antonio where you can still see the German influences in street names (here too, by the way). After a generation or two, English re-asserted itself (or replaced German and Spanish in the case of central and south Texas). The same holds true for our Spanish speaking population, though perhaps at a slower rate since we're a border state. I don't think there will ever be a time, at least in the next several centuries, where we don't have Spanish and English side by side here in Texas. As to Judge Hidalgo's speaking Spanish in the conference, I can see why she has good reason to do so given the large Spanish speaking community here. The only thing I would say would be that she should make sure she's giving the answers in English also so both language groups are served. She may well have done that, but my Spanish is too limited to tell. This was an emergency situation and clear and thorough communication is essential. While many, if not most, Hispanics in our community speak English as a secondary or primary language, some are certain to not. My own experience with immigrant communities is that while the young pick up English quickly, sometime their elderly family members never do. Add that to recent immigrants who haven't had time to learn yet and you get a group of people who need to get any warnings in a way they can quickly understand. Time will certainly tell on the Judge's job performance. This was a relatively small incident, but she will surely have larger disasters to deal with. Those are what I'll base my official judgement on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Judge Hidalgo said pretty much the same thing in Spanish that she did in English, as do Art Acevedo, Sam Peña, the ASL interpreter, Garrett Morris doing News For The Hard Of Hearing, etc., etc., etc. This wasn't my aunts swapping their gossiping over to Polish when the kids from Texas drew near, instead, it was all about communicating to as many people as possible. Anyone who is scared that she was sliding in some secret stuff for her peeps is paranoid at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 38 minutes ago, mollusk said: Judge Hidalgo said pretty much the same thing in Spanish that she did in English, as do Art Acevedo, Sam Peña, the ASL interpreter, Garrett Morris doing News For The Hard Of Hearing, etc., etc., etc. This wasn't my aunts swapping their gossiping over to Polish when the kids from Texas drew near, instead, it was all about communicating to as many people as possible. Anyone who is scared that she was sliding in some secret stuff for her peeps is paranoid at best. nie patrz teraz, ale nadchodzą te małe łobuzy z Teksasu... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Dogs Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 On 3/28/2019 at 9:56 AM, brian0123 said: I called out some on Reddit who were complaining about her during the ITC stuff. The gist of why they hated her seemed to boil down to "she didn't sound confident." They said Ed would have sounded tougher. In other words, they needed someone louder with a deeper voice to say the same things she was saying. It wouldn't surprise me if the hostility against her continues to escalate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 3 hours ago, august948 said: nie patrz teraz, ale nadchodzą te małe łobuzy z Teksasu... Oh, so you've met Aunt Violet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Dogs Posted June 3, 2019 Author Share Posted June 3, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 1:42 PM, mollusk said: Oh, so you've met Aunt Violet... Aunt Violet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 6/3/2019 at 3:07 PM, Blue Dogs said: Aunt Violet ? She was one of the aunts who would gossip in Polish if the kids from Texas were within earshot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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