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Conroe-North Houston Regional Airport


wxman

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The airport is about 22 nautical miles away from IAH - much closer than College station.  A lot of the approaches to IAH are longer than that flight, so I doubt there will be United flights from IAH to Conroe.  Now I could see other airlines having a spoke there, similar to flights to small towns in Colorado, but I don't think it will have more than one or two commercial flights a day.  

 

The focus will most likely be on charter flights, and improving the infrastructure there so charters on the northside of Houston prefer to drive there instead of going out of the many other General aviation fields in the Houston area

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If this is the airport I think it is my father took flying lessons there in the early 1980's. He told me then they had to be very careful to stay out of the IAH flight paths. Smaller commercial and charter flights could operate out of Conroe there would not be much room for screw-ups. The fact that the Conroe airport has co-existed with IAH all this time is encouraging though.

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New York and LA are the only other cities that have three or more commercial airports and their populations are double and triple what Houston’s is. Seems like a waste of resources. 

 

Also if I remember correctly, each city only gets a set amount of TSA agents, right? Isn’t that why IAH was all up in arms about Hobby becoming international?

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38 minutes ago, wxman said:

New York and LA are the only other cities that have three or more commercial airports and their populations are double and triple what Houston’s is. Seems like a waste of resources. 

 

Also if I remember correctly, each city only gets a set amount of TSA agents, right? Isn’t that why IAH was all up in arms about Hobby becoming international?

 

NYC CSA 23.9 Million:  7 commercial airports (CSAs seems like a better comparison for airport purposes than Metro areas)

LA CSA 18.8 Million:  5 commercial airports

Chicago CSA  9.9 Million:  2 commercial airports currently

Baltimore Washington CSA   9.8 Million:  4 commercial airports

San Jose-San Francisco CSA  8.8 Million:  4 commercial airports

Boston CSA  8.2 Million:  4 commercial airports

Dallas Fort Worth CSA   7.8 Million:  2 commercial airports ( but Meacham Field expects to add commercial service soon)

Philadelphia CSA   7.2 Million:  3 commercial airports

Houston CSA   7 Million:  2 commercial airports

Miami Ft Lauderdale CSA   6.8 Million:   3 commercial airports

Atlanta CSA  6.6 Million:  3 commercial airports

Detroit CSA 5.3 Million:  2 commercial airports

Seattle  CSA  4.8 Million:  2 commercial airports

 

So, comparatively, the idea of Houston having three commercial airports is not unreasonable, especially considering nobody is talking about tomorrow, but about a minimum of 5-10 years down the road, likely more -- as we approach a population of 9 - 10 million.

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If we're to have a new commercial airport, one in the west side of the city makes more sense than one in Conroe. Hobby is on the south/southeast side of town, IAH is on the north/northeast side. There's nothing on the west side. It takes an hour or more to drive from places like Katy, Fulshear, Richmond, or Rosenberg to both Hobby and IAH. Its even worse during rush hour.

 

Perhaps Houston Executive or Sugar Land Regional will become a commercial airport someday in the future.

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1 minute ago, baalManche said:

If we're to have a new commercial airport, one in the west side of the city makes more sense than one in Conroe. Hobby is on the south/southeast side of town, IAH is on the north/northeast side. There's nothing on the west side. It takes an hour or more to drive from places like Katy, Fulshear, Richmond, or Rosenberg to both Hobby and IAH. Its even worse during rush hour.

 

Perhaps Houston Executive or Sugar Land Regional will become a commercial airport someday in the future.

 

I was just about to say the same thing.  The west side even used to have an airport: West Houston Airport

Quote

A plan to build a new terminal and provide airline service to Dallas Love and other regional cities soon became reality. The airport was renamed West Houston Airport (IWS) to help in promoting its location and facilitate advertising the airport to the general public.

 

AirWest was the new airline and it provided eight non-stops a day using fifty passenger DeHaviland Dash 7 aircraft. From day one it looked like a success story, but by the mid 80's small regional airlines were going out of business as the oil and banking business tanked. As Houston's economy faltered, the owners of planes sought security by selling their planes, thus within a two year period, the airport, along with all other area airports, lost half of their based customers. The downturn reduced property values and caused a panic amongst many investors, real estate speculators and banks.

 

It's pretty small though and hemmed in, so I don't think it's a good candidate for new airline service status.  Houston Executive has a long runway and room to grow, but it is pretty far from population compared to Sugarland.  

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On 2/23/2019 at 1:35 PM, Houston19514 said:

 

NYC CSA 23.9 Million:  7 commercial airports (CSAs seems like a better comparison for airport purposes than Metro areas)

LA CSA 18.8 Million:  5 commercial airports

Chicago CSA  9.9 Million:  2 commercial airports currently

Baltimore Washington CSA   9.8 Million:  4 commercial airports

San Jose-San Francisco CSA  8.8 Million:  4 commercial airports

Boston CSA  8.2 Million:  4 commercial airports

Dallas Fort Worth CSA   7.8 Million:  2 commercial airports ( but Meacham Field expects to add commercial service soon)

Philadelphia CSA   7.2 Million:  3 commercial airports

Houston CSA   7 Million:  2 commercial airports

Miami Ft Lauderdale CSA   6.8 Million:   3 commercial airports

Atlanta CSA  6.6 Million:  3 commercial airports

Detroit CSA 5.3 Million:  2 commercial airports

Seattle  CSA  4.8 Million:  2 commercial airports

 

So, comparatively, the idea of Houston having three commercial airports is not unreasonable, especially considering nobody is talking about tomorrow, but about a minimum of 5-10 years down the road, likely more -- as we approach a population of 9 - 10 million.


Not sure why CSA is a better measure for this than MSA considering Montgomery County is in the MSA.

 

Since when does Atlanta have 3 commercial airports?!

 

Wash-Balto has 4?!

 

Detroit has only had 1 for many years.

 

Seattle is only now about to have 2.

 

That is unless you're counting service by Part 135 carriers, which I'm pretty sure CXO already has.

 

I guess you can say Philly has 3 if you include ACY but that seems like a crazy corollary for Conroe.  IAH is just as close to The Woodlands as is CXO, and even in traffic, if IAH is farther, there's no way CXO would offer competitive enough nonstop service and schedules to make the +/- 15 minutes matter.

 

In any case whoever said Allegiant would be the only likely airline is right . . . they USA, 30 miles outside of CLT, which is about as good of a corollary as you can get.  Surprised they haven't set up shop at EFD, to tell you the truth.

 

SGR reopening for commercial service would probably have a better business case.

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3 hours ago, baalManche said:

If we're to have a new commercial airport, one in the west side of the city makes more sense than one in Conroe. Hobby is on the south/southeast side of town, IAH is on the north/northeast side. There's nothing on the west side. It takes an hour or more to drive from places like Katy, Fulshear, Richmond, or Rosenberg to both Hobby and IAH. Its even worse during rush hour.

 

Perhaps Houston Executive or Sugar Land Regional will become a commercial airport someday in the future.

Maybe that's where the 4th one will go.

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24 minutes ago, Nate99 said:

The EFD-IAH route went on for a while, can't imagine the how the business case for that was justified the first time around. Something out of the west side of town makes the same (or more) sense, but that would require United buying into the idea.  

 

I have no doubt it lost money considering the airfares were the same as they were from IAH, i.e., there was no business case other than to take business from Southwest.  It was the easiest way for CO to remain competitive enough to air travelers on the south side after abandoning what was at one time a large enough "focus city" operation at HOU until 1990ish.  (Of course it replaced an HOU-IAH route, the Houston Proud Express.  And at various times again CO served HOU-IAH, including 737 one-stops to LGA to compete with the AA nonstops.)

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1 hour ago, Nate99 said:

The EFD-IAH route went on for a while, can't imagine the how the business case for that was justified the first time around. Something out of the west side of town makes the same (or more) sense, but that would require United buying into the idea.  

In the early 80's I flew on Metro Airlines a number of times from Sugar Land to connect to Eastern Airlines flights. A quick Twin Otter flight to IAH, easy check in, etc. It was a great option.

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6 minutes ago, Ross said:

In the early 80's I flew on Metro Airlines a number of times from Sugar Land to connect to Eastern Airlines flights. A quick Twin Otter flight to IAH, easy check in, etc. It was a great option.

 

10 flights/day to IAH

 

http://www.departedflights.com/HY110184p4.html

 

15 flights/day to the Clear Lake STOLPort

 

http://www.departedflights.com/HY110184p2.html

 

Unfortunately no contemporary examples for a long list of reasons.

Edited by mattyt36
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21 hours ago, mattyt36 said:


Not sure why CSA is a better measure for this than MSA considering Montgomery County is in the MSA.

 

Since when does Atlanta have 3 commercial airports?!

 

Wash-Balto has 4?!

 

Detroit has only had 1 for many years.

 

Seattle is only now about to have 2.

 

That is unless you're counting service by Part 135 carriers, which I'm pretty sure CXO already has.

 

I guess you can say Philly has 3 if you include ACY but that seems like a crazy corollary for Conroe.  IAH is just as close to The Woodlands as is CXO, and even in traffic, if IAH is farther, there's no way CXO would offer competitive enough nonstop service and schedules to make the +/- 15 minutes matter.

 

 

 

Answer your questions/comments in order:

 

Because CSA is much closer (although still inadequate) to covering the air travel catchment (market) area.

 

I don't know "since when", but here they are:  Hartsfield-Jackson, Dekalb-Peachtree and  Athens Ben Epps; all in the Atlanta CSA

 

Yes. You've apparently overlooked Hagerstown Regional Airport

 

You've apparently overlooked Bishop International in Flint.

 

Boeing Field

 

Of course I included Atlantic City; I was looking for all commercial service areas in the combined metropolitan area. I didn't suggest ACY was a good corollary for Conroe.  Merely clarirfying the record regarding the number of "cities" with more than 2 airports.

 

Edited by Houston19514
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19 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Answer your questions/comments in order:

 

Because CSA is much closer (although still inadequate) to covering the air travel catchment (market) area.

 

I don't know "since when", but here they are:  Hartsfield-Jackson, Dekalb-Peachtree and  Athens Ben Epps; all in the Atlanta CSA

 

Yes. You've apparently overlooked Hagerstown Regional Airport

 

You've apparently overlooked Bishop International in Flint.

 

Boeing Field

 

Of course I included Atlantic City; I was looking for all commercial service areas in the combined metropolitan area. Of course I never suggested ACY was a good corollary for Conroe.  Merely clarirfying the record regarding the number of "cities" with more than 2 airports.

 

 

Alrighty then.

 

Absolutely perfect (!) and totally appropriate comparisons.

 

PDK's air service is on-demand air taxi/public charters, Part 135.  PDK does not have a Part 139 certification from the FAA allowing for scheduled operations (neither does CXO).  Located in Atlanta MSA.

 

AHN is 85 road miles from ATL and last had service in 2013.  (Although it does have a Part 139 certification.)  Has its own MSA as defined by OMB with 165,000 residents.

 

HGR is 75 road miles from BWI.  Also has its own MSA as defined by OMB with 260,000 residents.

 

FNT is 80 road miles from DTW.  Also has its own MSA as defined by OMB with 425,000 residents.

 

BFI is in the same boat as PDK, having service only from Part 135 carriers.  Their historical battle to allow the type of service that most people would consider constitutes commercial service is well known: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/business/the-little-airport-that-said-no-to-southwest.html (Although in fairness PAE is about to get scheduled service on AS and UA.)

 

CXO is 35 road miles from IAH.  Classified as a principal city in Houston MSA.

 

I'd say by your loose CSA standard you might as well include BPT as an airport serving Houston considering it's 85 miles from IAH, and why not CLL considering it's 90 miles.  At the end of the day, what does it matter if they're in the CSA or not?

 

The LAX CSA has 6, BTW--you forgot PSP.  Probably because you realized including it wouldn't make much sense?

 

It's really a disingenuous listing.

Edited by mattyt36
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Actually you can increase LA to 7 as this outfit (no different really than the air service provided from PDK or BFI) flies from Hawthorne.

 

https://www.surfair.com/us/destinations/los-angeles/

 

The truth of the matter is this isn't service that the "man off the street" would consider commercial, and, by extension, that Hawthorne was a commercial service airport.  If that's what CXO's manager is getting at, well, I suppose that's fine but that's not much to write home about.

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1 hour ago, mattyt36 said:

 

Alrighty then.

 

Absolutely perfect (!) and totally appropriate comparisons.

 

PDK's air service is on-demand air taxi/public charters, Part 135.  PDK does not have a Part 139 certification from the FAA allowing for scheduled operations (neither does CXO).  Located in Atlanta MSA.

 

AHN is 85 road miles from ATL and last had service in 2013.  (Although it does have a Part 139 certification.)  Has its own MSA as defined by OMB with 165,000 residents.

 

HGR is 75 road miles from BWI.  Also has its own MSA as defined by OMB with 260,000 residents.

 

FNT is 80 road miles from DTW.  Also has its own MSA as defined by OMB with 425,000 residents.

 

BFI is in the same boat as PDK, having service only from Part 135 carriers.  Their historical battle to allow the type of service that most people would consider constitutes commercial service is well known: https://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/business/the-little-airport-that-said-no-to-southwest.html (Although in fairness PAE is about to get scheduled service on AS and UA.)

 

CXO is 35 road miles from IAH.  Classified as a principal city in Houston MSA.

 

I'd say by your loose CSA standard you might as well include BPT as an airport serving Houston considering it's 85 miles from IAH, and why not CLL considering it's 90 miles.  At the end of the day, what does it matter if they're in the CSA or not?

 

The LAX CSA has 6, BTW--you forgot PSP.  Probably because you realized including it wouldn't make much sense?

 

It's really a disingenuous listing.

 

Goodness.  I didn't mean for anyone to get their panties in such a wad over this.  I just tried to put together a list showing how many airports serve the largest combined metro areas. I attempted to include all airports that have flights that operate on a published schedule and are sold to the general public. Nothing disingenuous about it. 

 

I don't think the average customer cares what part of the Code of Federal Regulations they operate under.  For what it's worth, my "loose" CSA standard is the standard of the US Census Bureau and its based on economic interaction between counties. It would probably be reasonable to consider larger areas, but I wanted to use an objective standard.

 

I stand corrected on Athens.  But Boeing and Dekalb-Peachtree both seem to qualify; both offer regularly scheduled air service sold to the general public.  So, I happily amend my list to correct my mistaken inclusion of Athens.  Respectful corrections and revisions always welcome.

 

NYC CSA 23.9 Million:  7 commercial airports (CSAs seems like a better comparison for airport purposes than Metro areas)

LA CSA 18.8 Million:  5+ commercial airports

Chicago CSA  9.9 Million:  2 commercial airports currently

Baltimore Washington CSA   9.8 Million:  4 commercial airports

San Jose-San Francisco CSA  8.8 Million:  4 commercial airports

Boston CSA  8.2 Million:  4 commercial airports

Dallas Fort Worth CSA   7.8 Million:  2 commercial airports ( but Meacham Field expects to add commercial service soon)

Philadelphia CSA   7.2 Million:  3 commercial airports

Houston CSA   7 Million:  2 commercial airports

Miami Ft Lauderdale CSA   6.8 Million:   3 commercial airports

Atlanta CSA  6.6 Million:  2 commercial airports

Detroit CSA 5.3 Million:  2 commercial airports

Seattle  CSA  4.8 Million:  2 commercial airports

Edited by Houston19514
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14 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Goodness.  I didn't mean for anyone to get their panties in such a wad over this.  I just tried to put together a list showing how many airports serve the largest combined metro areas. I attempted to include all airports that have flights that operate on a published schedule and are sold to the general public. Nothing disingenuous about it. 

I don't think the average customer cares what part of the Code of Federal Regulations they operate under.  For what it's worth, my "loose" CSA standard is the standard of the US Census Bureau and its based on economic interaction between counties. It would probably be reasonable to consider larger areas, but I wanted to use an objective standard.

 

I stand corrected on Athens.  But Boeing and Dekalb-Peachtree both seem to qualify; both offer regularly scheduled air service sold to the general public.  So, I happily amend my list to correct my mistaken inclusion of Athens.

 

NYC CSA 23.9 Million:  7 commercial airports (CSAs seems like a better comparison for airport purposes than Metro areas)

LA CSA 18.8 Million:  5+ commercial airports

Chicago CSA  9.9 Million:  2 commercial airports currently

Baltimore Washington CSA   9.8 Million:  4 commercial airports

San Jose-San Francisco CSA  8.8 Million:  4 commercial airports

Boston CSA  8.2 Million:  4 commercial airports

Dallas Fort Worth CSA   7.8 Million:  2 commercial airports ( but Meacham Field expects to add commercial service soon)

Philadelphia CSA   7.2 Million:  3 commercial airports

Houston CSA   7 Million:  2 commercial airports

Miami Ft Lauderdale CSA   6.8 Million:   3 commercial airports

Atlanta CSA  6.6 Million:  2 commercial airports

Detroit CSA 5.3 Million:  2 commercial airports

Seattle  CSA  4.8 Million:  2 commercial airports

 

It's disingenuous because it implies some sort of "rule" and "relationship" based on arbitrary selection criteria.

 

So Dallas has 2 airports, 1 with about 32,000,000 enplaned passengers, 1 with about 7,500,000.

 

Houston has 2, 1 with about 22,000,000 and 1 with about 6,500,000.

 

Detroit has 2, 1 with about 17,000,000 and 1 (located in another MSA in its own right 85 miles away mind you) with about 400,000.

 

Atlanta by your definition also has 2, 1 with about 50,000,000 and 1 with about 3,000 (in other words ~0.006% of the traffic served by ATL) that doesn't have a Part 139 certificate from the FAA (the same one, mind you, that the CXO guy is talking about obtaining in the article from the OP) and therefore can't accommodate scheduled service on aircraft with more than 9 seats.


You really see no need for (one hell of a) big asterisk next to these comparisons?  

 

The Atlanta CSA therefore has 95% of the population of the Houston CSA and also has 2 airports.  So what, exactly, do we take away from your list?  Houston is fine?  Houston is underserved?  What exactly?  I suggest it's a meaningless and hollow comparison.

Edited by mattyt36
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2 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

 

It's disingenuous because it implies some sort of "rule" and "relationship" based on arbitrary selection criteria.

 

So Dallas has 2 airports, 1 with about 32,000,000 enplaned passengers, 1 with about 7,500,000.

 

Houston has 2, 1 with about 22,000,000 and 1 with about 6,500,000.

 

Detroit has 2, 1 with about 17,000,000 and 1 (located in another MSA in its own right 85 miles away mind you) with about 400,000.

 

Atlanta by your definition also has 2, 1 with about 50,000,000 and 1 with about 3,000 (in other words ~0.006% of the traffic served by ATL) that doesn't have a Part 139 certificate from the FAA (the same one, mind you, that the CXO guy is talking about obtaining in the article from the OP) and therefore can't accommodate scheduled service on aircraft with more than 9 seats.


You really see no need for (one hell of a) big asterisk next to these comparisons?  

 

The Atlanta CSA therefore has 95% of the population of the Houston CSA and also has 2 airports.  So what, exactly, do we take away from your list?  Houston is fine?  Houston is underserved?  What exactly?  I suggest it's a meaningless and hollow comparison.

 

The list is intended to provide the information it provides. The criteria was clearly stated and hardly arbitrary.  Relax.

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5 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

The list is intended to provide the information it provides. The criteria was clearly stated and hardly arbitrary.  Relax.

 

Your original conclusion:

 

"So, comparatively, the idea of Houston having three commercial airports is not unreasonable, especially considering nobody is talking about tomorrow, but about a minimum of 5-10 years down the road, likely more -- as we approach a population of 9 - 10 million."

 

The "data" clearly show it is as unreasonable as it is reasonable, i.e., they show close to nothing.

Edited by mattyt36
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32 minutes ago, mattyt36 said:

 

Your original conclusion:

 

"So, comparatively, the idea of Houston having three commercial airports is not unreasonable, especially considering nobody is talking about tomorrow, but about a minimum of 5-10 years down the road, likely more -- as we approach a population of 9 - 10 million."

 

The data clearly show it is as unreasonable as it is reasonable.

 

Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.  I just wanted add some facts for consideration.

 

FACT:  Of the 13 largest combine metro areas (of which Houston is 9th largest), there are at least seven cities served by more then 2 commercial airports (airports with regularly scheduled airline service sold to the general public), with two more (not counting Houston) apparently working on a third airport.

 

I am happy to amend the topic to exclude airports without Part 139 certification.  The result then:

 

Seven cities served by more than 2 commercial airports.  Of the combined metros larger than Houston only 2 are not served by more than 2 airports (Chicago and DFW; DFW is apparently going to have its third pretty soon; Chicago is/has been working on it.)

Edited by Houston19514
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22 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.  I just wanted add some facts for consideration.

 

FACT:  Of the 13 largest combine metro areas (of which Houston is 9th largest), there are at least seven cities served by more then 2 commercial airports (airports with regularly scheduled airline service sold to the general public), with two more (not counting Houston) apparently working on a third airport.

 

FACT: Of the 10 largest MSAs, 4 are served are by more than 2 airports of any meaningful size: NYC, LA, Miami, and Boston.

 

Annual one-way O&D passenger traffic (i.e., excluding connecting traffic) to those markets (a much more relevant metric than population) is:

 

NYC: 52m

 

LA Basin: 40m

 

Miami: 32m

 

Boston: 22m

 

Houston's is about 15m.

 

If you want to bring CSAs into this, fine.

 

Same numbers for DC is 25m.

 

And for SF Bay Area is 33m.

 

The fact of the matter is Houston punches horrendously below its population weight for domestic O&D traffic.  (Only Detroit and Philadelphia are as bad of metros of any significant size.)

 

But, sure by 2025 Allegiant or "New Allegiant" may set up shop at Conroe or Ellington or Sugar Land and the 15m may grow by 50k because of horrendously cheap fares that no other airline will really compete with on a couple of flights 3 days a week from a tilt-up building with no jetbridges.  They'll be doing that not because of the population of the metro area, or severe driving times from Conroe or League City or Rosenberg to IAH or HOU, but rather because they don't want to pay the fees charged at IAH or HOU.

 

I guess that's good.  But the real dynamics are missing from the original article and the subsequent posts.

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Until I had to for work earlier today, I didn't realize how many airports LA has and how close they are.  Southwest flies to 5 of them, and a rough circle drawn around them is about the same size as the grand parkway.

 

What I'm not sure is whether Conroe is the best place for a 3rd airport with airline service - it's a far drive for anyone not north of IAH, and will at first only have limited flights that Alligient or whoever will bring in.

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  • The title was changed to New Commercial Airport: Conroe- North Houston
  • 1 year later...

I was reading the newspaper The Bellaire Texan dated November 18, 1964 and came across an advertisement selling a new residential community in Conroe, TX.  As apart of their marketing ads, they included a picture of the Montgomery County Airport, 3 miles from Northeast of Conroe. The airport has three hard surface runways.

Did this airport survive and expand to meet current needs? I know there is a current Conroe airport located at 10260 Carl Pickering Memorial Dr.

Cool picture though! Love old fields.

bW8YXrr.png

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  • The title was changed to Conroe-North Houston Regional Airport
  • The title was changed to Conroe-North Houston Regional Airport

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