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Pedestrian Downtown


quietstorm

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2 hours ago, BeerNut said:

 

maybe we're just less healthy and not used to walking.   :ph34r:  I tell people I'm going to walk to Montrose from MidMain area and they think that's crazy far to walk.

I walk over five miles from my workplace to the Kingwood Library several times a week. Sometimes I'll run a little just to speed things up. I have had five people in two months pull over and ask me if I needed a ride. Nice folks, but I tell them thanks but I want to walk. I think they think I'm nuts. Oh well.

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3 hours ago, quietstorm said:

Actually, it was great seeing the  tremendous diversity of people comfortable just walking around downtown Houston. 

 

Take the same pictures in July and see if there's a noticeable difference.  Maybe with the demise of suit and tie workwear things will liven up during the summer.

5 hours ago, quietstorm said:

There’s a distinct pedestrian culture developing. Some observations from this afternoon. 

 

2) We’re not pretentious...unlike our cousins up I-45 no one is “dressed to the nines”...😏

 

Is Dallas still that way?  I remember it being so back in the '80s but more recently it seems like people there don't get dressed up much either.  Or at least no where near like they used to.

 

 

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1 hour ago, august948 said:

 

Take the same pictures in July and see if there's a noticeable difference.  Maybe with the demise of suit and tie workwear things will liven up during the summer.

 

Is Dallas still that way?  I remember it being so back in the '80s but more recently it seems like people there don't get dressed up much either.  Or at least no where near like they used to.

 

 

The dress at Klyde Warren park is noticeably “fancier” than anything I’ve ever seen at Discovery Green. My husband’s family is there. Not much has changed.

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1 hour ago, august948 said:

 

Take the same pictures in July and see if there's a noticeable difference.  Maybe with the demise of suit and tie workwear things will liven up during the summer.

 

Is Dallas still that way?  I remember it being so back in the '80s but more recently it seems like people there don't get dressed up much either.  Or at least no where near like they used to.

 

 

Hell yeah dallas is still that way. I went there to see a Rockets game and for anyone not from there, especially Houston, they are rude as hell. Very stuck up and arrogant for no reason. dallas is a boring city. 

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9 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Hell yeah dallas is still that way. I went there to see a Rockets game and for anyone not from there, especially Houston, they are rude as hell. Very stuck up and arrogant for no reason. dallas is a boring city. 

 

I visisted Dallas for the first time almost 2 weeks ago and I went with an open mind, I really tried to curve my Houston bias.

 

That being said, in the week I stayed there, I found Dallas to be pretty unremarkable. “Boring” would be an accurate term to describe it as well. Sure, there are certain areas of the city that have seen revitalization, but the architecture is especially old and cold. My wife (who cares very little about development news/architecture) went out of the way to comment on how ugly a majority of the buildings were downtown. It seems like Dallas hit a big boom during the 60s-70s when buildings were largely composed on concrete. They are more of a concrete jungle than us! And surprisingly, walking around areas of downtown/uptown Dallas to be less walkable than Houston.

 

I found the surrounding cities/suburbs to be more appealing than Dallas proper itself, and I think that might be its biggest strength. This isn’t necessarily meant to be a post dedicated to bashing Dallas, just my honest opinion and initial experience after visiting. 

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Quote

 

^^^it seems you may have visited the wrong areas of town, as I do not quite recognize the city you are referring to. Especially the part about all the 60’s-70’s old and cold concrete architecture. It seems you might not have been too successful at curbing your Houston bias. 

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21 hours ago, BeerNut said:

 

maybe we're just less healthy and not used to walking.   :ph34r:  I tell people I'm going to walk to Montrose from MidMain area and they think that's crazy far to walk.

People in walkable cities aren’t walking these distances either, but have access to better public transportation. Most people. take the Red or Green lines in DC to travel a couple miles like we drive a couple miles in Houston. It’s about convenience more than anything else. 

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On 2/7/2019 at 3:24 PM, kbates2 said:

 

HOUSTON%20MAIN%20AT%20FRANKLIN%201928.jp

 

Not sure how long it has been there but you can kind of see the two buildings that were there before on the left in this photo.  One was a bank (the far one), and not sure of what the three story building was next to it.

 

In the 80's, there was a house on Stratford St that had a couple of very large Corinthian capitals in the front yard. They had been salvaged from a downtown bank building that had been recently demolished. 
I'm not 100% certain but it seems plausible that they came from this building. If someone can supply the name of the bank, it would be appreciated.
edit: I think I've answered my own question. This appears to be the South Texas National Bank building, which was demolished in 1983.

Edited by dbigtex56
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4 hours ago, Jbarn said:

^^^it seems you may have visited the wrong areas of town, as I do not quite recognize the city you are referring to. Especially the part about all the 60’s-70’s old and cold concrete architecture. It seems you might not have been too successful at curbing your Houston bias. 

Then you haven’t been to downtown Dallas but if you’re referring to neighborhoods like Deep Ellen and Lower Greenville then there is no bias in knowing that compared to Houston those neighborhoods are very limited and small. Yet they are some of the cities most well known neighborhoods. I lived in Dallas for 4 years and it is very spread out and boring. Very overrated compared to what it has to offer. Even neighborhoods that had a sense of walkability catered to pretentious crowds alone. 

Edited by j_cuevas713
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12 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Then you haven’t been to downtown Dallas but if you’re referring to neighborhoods like Deep Ellen and Lower Greenville then there is no bias in knowing that compared to Houston those neighborhoods are very limited and small. Yet they are some of the cities most well known neighborhoods. I lived in Dallas for 4 years and it is very spread out and boring. Very overrated compared to what it has to offer. Even neighborhoods that had a sense of walkability catered to pretentious crowds alone. 

 

Wow. Severe inferiority complex you have there. Someone calling Dallas spread out,, as compared to Houston, shows how totally biased and unrealistic you are. You might focus on improving your city rather than cutting others down to boost yours up. 

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1 hour ago, Texasota said:

Look, everyone loves hating on Dallas, and rightly so, but maybe every discussion of how Houston is changing/improving doesn't have to devolve into  a d!ck measuring contest with our evil twin?

 

Yeah, I should've just kept my opinion to myself, seems as though I've ruffled a few feathers 😂

 

1 hour ago, Jbarn said:

 

Wow. Severe inferiority complex you have there. Someone calling Dallas spread out,, as compared to Houston, shows how totally biased and unrealistic you are. You might focus on improving your city rather than cutting others down to boost yours up. 

 

This is a forum dedicated to Houston, and as such, comparisons between other Texas cities are inevitable. I simply gave my initial impressions from my first visit, things may change the more I travel there, there's no need to get all bent out of shape. There were many great things I liked in Dallas: the zoo is nice, there are several excellent museums, and the food (like many major cities in Texas) was diverse and wonderful.

 

That being said, I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out the flaws in a city. Houston has several flaws, and I'm not going to be ignorant to them since addressing these issues can make a city greater. From my initial experiences (as seen above), there are many things I disliked about Dallas that still makes me believe Houston is the superior city in my mind. Remember, this is just my opinion, and I value certain aspects of cities that others don't necessarily value as much as I do.

 

Apologies for diverting the discussion on this thread, back to our regularly scheduled program. 

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3 hours ago, Jbarn said:

 

Wow. Severe inferiority complex you have there. Someone calling Dallas spread out,, as compared to Houston, shows how totally biased and unrealistic you are. You might focus on improving your city rather than cutting others down to boost yours up. 

Haha riiight the fact of the matter is I LIVED THERE and yes it’s very spread out. Houston is spread out but it doesn’t feel disconnected. Cutting down others? Lol I have the complex yet you’re the sensitive one 👍🏼

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7 hours ago, j_cuevas713 said:

Haha riiight the fact of the matter is I LIVED THERE and yes it’s very spread out. Houston is spread out but it doesn’t feel disconnected. Cutting down others? Lol I have the complex yet you’re the sensitive one 👍🏼

 

Giggle, giggle

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On 4/4/2019 at 7:24 PM, Texasota said:

And no, I still don't really understand what "the location of downtown is going to get inferior real quick" is supposed to mean. Are you saying that improvements on the East End will somehow have a negative impact on Downtown itself?

 

If anything I would expect the opposite to be true, especially as the Allen Parkway and Washington Avenue corridors (and Midtown) continue to develop. Increasingly Downtown will actually the locus of a vibrant central city, rather than just one cluster of office highrises among many.

 

It depends on how far in the future you are looking. I agree with your point in regards to the nearer terms. But when more eastward bayou developments like East River crop up, you're going to end up with more of an urban-nature integration to a degree not afforded as strongly in the current hotspot of Downtown/Midtown. Such recreation is important in what makes an area desirable. 

 

On 4/4/2019 at 7:50 PM, kbates2 said:

The Eastside blooming would only serve to make the location of downtown more meaningful (being the center of so much as opposed to the edge).  

 

But suppose that boom goes all the way along the Bayou, to Harrisburg or beyond? Then the city fabric becomes quite linear/elongated, to a point that Downtown is a bit farther west of the midline.

 

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On 4/4/2019 at 9:56 PM, august948 said:

 

FINALLY...now we're getting somewhere.  So here's the problem.  Let's say the need for oil and related chemicals goes away.  A doubtful scenario, but let's make pretend that will happen.  Are we also talking about eliminating the port as well (the non-oil and chemical part)?  I would think so, since the goal is to return the bayou to it's natural or some other similar state.  Move all the oil and gas and port activities to Galveston or somewhere up or down the coast.  When that happens, the economy of Houston will pretty much collapse.  Now it'd be nice to say it would be replaced by battery factories or such, but the likelihood of that is pretty low.  Why would they all relocate here to build our economy back up?  The reason Houston exists in it's current state is the industry along the ship channel.  That industry is here because we're at the place where the pipelines and railroads meet the sea.  That's also why the higher end development has historically trended west and north.  Those are the directions AWAY from the industries in question.

 

So, any way you slice it, whether it happens quickly or over a long period of time, in all likelihood Houston would drop dramatically in population and economic terms under this scenario.  When that happens, we won't be able to support many of the things that make Houston a fun place to live.  Large swaths of the city will be desolated and the crime rate will go up (see Detroit, MI).  I think that is way too high a price to pay for a lovely riparian vision.  The east side is already redeveloping to it's natural limits at the edge of the industrial areas.  As someone else stated, that really makes downtown more central, which supports the already obvious renaissance downtown has had in the last couple of decades.

 

It's fun to imagine what could be, but part of that is also imagining the intended and unintended consequences.

 

Of course, this assumes that the city and business leaders would just let it happen. But the business leaders are quite smart, I'm sure they'd figure out a way to pivot and persist during that shift. Even if it means having to acquire new startups. The city would also have to invest in itself to both attract the talent, and/or create it.

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The Port of Houston will be large for a very long time.  This sounds crazy but Houston is the furthest west and north large ocean going vessels can go. They can go fairly far north along the Mississippi river but not much more westward. I think the locks on the St. Lawrence Seaway limit the size of vessels. 

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I still think you're over-exaggerating the dog-eat-dog nature of these neighborhood competitions. As the city keeps growing, there are just going to be more great neighborhoods, and increased proximity will allow flow between them. 

 

I mean, downtown and midtown as the "current hotspot" is a weird way to put it, considering they're over 150 years old. They've changed radically over that time and gone through long periods of decline, but they're not going anywhere. 

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19 minutes ago, Twinsanity02 said:

The Port of Houston will be large for a very long time.  This sounds crazy but Houston is the furthest west and north large ocean going vessels can go. They can go fairly far north along the Mississippi river but not much more westward. I think the locks on the St. Lawrence Seaway limit the size of vessels. 

 

 I think ocean going vessels only go as far as Baton Rouge, about 40 miles further north than Houston.

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28 minutes ago, Twinsanity02 said:

The Port of Houston will be large for a very long time.

(I know, this thread is wandering off topic, but...)
Have facilities been expanded at the Port to accommodate the greater traffic generated by the Panama Canal expansion project?
I checked their website, but they're vague on timelines.

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1 hour ago, dbigtex56 said:

(I know, this thread is wandering off topic, but...)
Have facilities been expanded at the Port to accommodate the greater traffic generated by the Panama Canal expansion project?
I checked their website, but they're vague on timelines.

 

According to this the port bumped up 14% after the canal was done and they are looking at expansion.

 

https://www.chron.com/business/retail/article/Port-Houston-container-imports-surged-last-year-12481938.php

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On 4/5/2019 at 8:35 PM, august948 said:

 

Take the same pictures in July and see if there's a noticeable difference.  Maybe with the demise of suit and tie workwear things will liven up during the summer.

Interesting to see whether there are fewer people walking in the heat. No need to wait for July... it’ll be 93° tomorrow. 😅

Edited by Sky-guy
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On 4/6/2019 at 8:11 PM, j_cuevas713 said:

Then you haven’t been to downtown Dallas but if you’re referring to neighborhoods like Deep Ellen and Lower Greenville then there is no bias in knowing that compared to Houston those neighborhoods are very limited and small. Yet they are some of the cities most well known neighborhoods. I lived in Dallas for 4 years and it is very spread out and boring. Very overrated compared to what it has to offer. Even neighborhoods that had a sense of walkability catered to pretentious crowds alone. 

 

Where is the Deep Ellen neighborhood? I can’t find it in a map. 

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Downtown Dallas still has the Original Neiman Marcus, the Majestic Theater and the extremely tourist-y area around the JFK Assassination.   Downtown Houston doesn't have a department store, open historic theater, or tourist destination that rival those spots, so to a traveller/tourist/suburbanite, Dallas's downtown still might seem like it has more to offer.  That being said, downtown dallas has literally 1 decent bar right now: Midnight Rambler.   

 

 

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18 minutes ago, crock said:

Downtown Dallas still has the Original Neiman Marcus, the Majestic Theater and the extremely tourist-y area around the JFK Assassination.   Downtown Houston doesn't have a department store, open historic theater, or tourist destination that rival those spots, so to a traveller/tourist/suburbanite, Dallas's downtown still might seem like it has more to offer.  That being said, downtown dallas has literally 1 decent bar right now: Midnight Rambler.   

 

 

 

We visited the JFK Assassination Museum, it was very nice! I wouldn't say Houston has a museum quite like that downtown, but we do have Sam Houston Park and The Heritage Society (granted those houses could use some upkeep and maintenance). Most of the museums in Houston are centralized in the Museum District near the Medical Center. 

 

The Majestic Theater is also very nice, but again, I would say that the Houston Theater District is superior to the one in Dallas, just in terms of venues and performances the city hosts.

 

And in terms of Neiman Marcus, I have to be honest in saying I didn't even know one existed downtown. That being said, I have to question whether or not having that store downtown is a significant draw for locals or tourists. True, Houston doesn't have a major retail store like that downtown (correct me if I'm wrong), but we do have GreenStreet and The Shops at Houston Center. By themselves, they aren't anything too impressive, but at least there are renovations/expansions planned for both venues. Furthermore, most of the high-dollar retail is concentrated in Uptown Houston with the Galleria.

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Why would we want a museum where one of the greatest presidents to ever live was murdered!? Lol Did we forget he made his infamous speech at Rice here in Houston??? 

4 hours ago, Jbarn said:

 

Where is the Deep Ellen neighborhood? I can’t find it in a map. 

Ellum* but yeah be sarcastic or whatever butthurt you want to be lol

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