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amadeuz

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A guy who makes only 5 posts then "slanders" an active participating member. Hmmmmmmm.

The problem with a thread like this is, that its not in the spirit of the community that is this board. Its more like reverse advertising especially since I noted that the thread is linked to an anti Lovett site to make that site look more official.

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FYI, there is a book about this: http://www.amazon.com/Hey-Kidz-This-Book-G...l/dp/1932360352

It's called Hey, Kidz! Buy This Book: A Radical Primer on Corporate and Governmental Propaganda and Artistic Activism for Short People, and it was written by Anne Elizabeth Moore and Megan Kelso. The book explains that one way that companies try to influence PR is to form PR groups against rival companies.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, I probably paid more than I had to to put in a decent toilet, but I did not want to do it myself, because I travel a lot and find myself short on time for these things any more. I called the most reputable plumbing contractor in town - Village Plumbing. They are more expensive, yes, but they are dependable and clean. Further, they pay their employees a living wage, and they offer a guarantee. And, the toilets flush!! In my opinion you can bring shabby contractors into your house until you move in and change all of the locks - After that you risk them returning to break into your house. If you doubt the figure, call them and ask about the installation charge for a tiolet these days. It is about $145 per unit. Of course, I checked competitors, and Cardinal plumbing wants about the same amount. ARS would be much cheaper, but I have dealt with them before - Never Again. The least expensive TOTO brand toilet Village plumbing sells is about $350 plus installation. There are four toilets. Put your fax number or e-mail address in next time, and I will fax you a copy of the bill. Oh yeah - I did go to HD and Lowes and found some toilets in the price range you quote, but elected not to go this way as I sold my old pickup truck about three years ago - And then there are the stairs... I suppose the $40 toilets that were hauled off are now resting quietly in the Liberty dump. Thanks Lovett!!

I don't know...he's made over 800 posts since he joined! :closedeyes:

How did you manage to spend $2000 replacing toilets? We replaced an old toilet with a decent Kohler for like $200 at HD.

My limited knowledge of Lovett is as a high-end spec builder around Rice. I'm not sure they're different than any other successful spec builder. The margins are so low in that business that only the shrewd survive.

I think the big problem is probably poor-quality subs. With the hot construction market, labor is expensive and in short supply. As an example, we hired a company to sand our hardwoods. When the owner looked at the original floor, he said, "see those 'waves' in the floor? After we're done, it will be smooth as silk". Well, the guy's crew must have been practicing on our floor, because there are more waves now than before!

Please review the posts - It was I who was slandered - I could think of no worse insult than being called a Lovett Employee. I stated facts, and instead of commenting, VicMan tries to turn my legitimate beef into some kind of post-modern Big Brother scheme. The term paranoia comes to mind.

A guy who makes only 5 posts then "slanders" an active participating member. Hmmmmmmm.
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This thread must be commended for the vivid imaginations of its contributors.

This is sounding repititious but my interest in this topic is based on my personal financial loss, and my frustration with the unscrupled company (Lovett) that caused that loss. That seems to be a difficult concept to understand. Does it not seem possible that one could be unhappy enough with poor quality, unnecessary expense, and no customer consciousness?

The book appears to be a good one, nonetheless. Very imaginative! Thanks for the tip!

However, there is another book on Amazon that is more appropriate in this case, as it deals with my situation. The book is entitled "Byte Me". It is rather humerous. Here is a quote from the blerb: "Show your enemies that when revenge is computer-generated, the mouse is mightier than the rat!"

http://www.amazon.ca/Byte-Me-Haydukes-Comp...TF8&s=books

FYI, there is a book about this: http://www.amazon.com/Hey-Kidz-This-Book-G...l/dp/1932360352

It's called Hey, Kidz! Buy This Book: A Radical Primer on Corporate and Governmental Propaganda and Artistic Activism for Short People, and it was written by Anne Elizabeth Moore and Megan Kelso. The book explains that one way that companies try to influence PR is to form PR groups against rival companies.

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Ahh, Village Plumbing...

The previous owner of my house was..."creative". He wanted to run a NG grill, so he spliced a needle valve directly at the gas meter, buried(!) copper tubing, and popped a quick connect up onto the back patio. This arrangement worked well until the copper tubing started leaking underground. So I called Village Plumbing...

He quoted $200 to replace the needle valve, a few hundred to run the line to the patio (above ground), another $400 to pressure test the system. But OH, he can't do any gas work until he sees if my water heater is up to code. Of course, it is not. Not only does it need to be replaced, but it needs a raised platform and all the venting needs to be redone. $1300 for the water heater (installed), plus another few hundred for the vent work. Quote total: $3200.

Needless to say, I bought some tubing, re-ran it above ground, and was in business for $50. Not up to code, perhaps, but a lot safer than the previous arrangement.

Ugh...Village Plumbing.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm new to Houston and need to find a place to live a.s.a.p. Due to some extenuating circumstances, I'm considering a Lovett/InTown home despite the horror stories I've found here. It isn't because I don't believe you. But, I plan on taking some of the advice that's been posted to help alleviate some of the problems that the other InTown home owners have experienced.

My purpose in posting this reply is to request that you share your negotiating experience with InTown. I realize that you don't think anyone should buy a home from this builder, but am also hoping that if you can't deprive them of a sale, that you would be willing to provide me with some information so that they will at least make less profit. There's obviously also the benefit to me of getting a better deal.

Even if you decide not to disclose your negotiating experience, I thank you for sharing your problems with InTown.

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I'm new to Houston and need to find a place to live a.s.a.p. Due to some extenuating circumstances

Why can't you rent for a while instead of buying right away? That way you can take your time and find something from a reputable builder.

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Here is an alternative to a Lovett Home. I built it a couple years ago and my brother bought it. He has it on the market now. You can view pics at www.2percent2buyer.com.

1414 Dowling Unit C

Houston, Tx 77003

Cross Streets: Dowling and Bell

Subdivision: Omni Heights

3 bedrooms 2.5 bathrooms

Built in 2004 1600 square feet

MLS number: 6471730

Listed at: 229,000

Fantastic new listing in Houston's emerging eastside of downtown near Minute Maid Ballpark, Toyota Center and the George R Brown Convention Center. This unique 2 story with rear entry gated garage home has SS appliances, wood floors, natural stone tiles, granite counters and much more. Refrigerator, washer and dryer will be included in the sale. Owner is a licenced real estate agent.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Lovett will not negotiate price. They will not negotiate their one-sided contract either. If you have a realtor that you are familiar with, you should approach Lovett with a realtor as an agent. In this case, the realty arm of Lovett will split their 6% "commission" on the sale with the agent representing you in the sale. This keeps 3% of the deal out of Lovett's pocket and in someone elses. 3% is significant on a home purchase.

My purpose in posting this reply is to request that you share your negotiating experience with InTown. I realize that you don't think anyone should buy a home from this builder, but am also hoping that if you can't deprive them of a sale, that you would be willing to provide me with some information so that they will at least make less profit. There's obviously also the benefit to me of getting a better deal.
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Village Plumbing is terrible. They did the same thing with me. Would you believe they wanted $700 to replace an outdoor faucet/spigot? I ended up doing it myself for less than $20, all it needed was a new washer.

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  • 3 weeks later...

My 2 cents...

"Will not negotiate price"??? Who cares.... That is the right of any business. That is American Capitalism. Don't buy it if the price is not in your reach.

"One sided contract"??? Of coarse it is.... Why else would there be a contract. If you don't like the verbage in the contract, don't sign it.

These two topics are lame excuses to whine about poor choices. I have been a builder for "X" number of years for various builders, production and custom. It never ceases to amaze me that people will complain about the deal they got on their home... That deal is controlled by your signature at contract and closing. You either close the deal or walk away. You should have made a solid decision before signing the earnest money contract.

The statement above is the only thing a buyer has total control over until they sign. Defects in construction and poor quality and poor customer service are obviously the builder's responsibility.

I know of Lovett Homes and their style of building. Structurally speaking, I would trust their townhome product against a Perry Home product any day of the week, Lumber quality is better and they use twice as much. Lovett Homes, Perry Homes, TriCon Homes and all the others are production builders. Lovett's townhome product is a high end production home. If you bought a Lovett Townhome for $600,00.00 or less, you bought a production home. Like it or not, it is not a true custom home. Ask a true custom builder about this and you will see I am correct.

Quality is set by every Homebuilder in the presentation of their model home. If you bought based on what you saw in a model home then that is the highest level of quality you can expect. Anything else is a bonus from that point on. The model home is the product they are selling.

Every homebuilder tries to load up their superintendants with as many homes as they can handle or not handle. I have had as many as 22 homes under my care at once. Is that a manageable load? NO, clearly not. Is it my choice? NO, I would rather have six to ten houses and be able to enjoy my family and friends. At the same time my bread and butter is bonus money. The faster I can build the home, typically the more I make on the back end in bonus. A good superintendant should be able to make 30 to 40 percent of his salary in bonus.

Change orders requested by buyers are discouraged because it causes delays in the construction time. Many times the builder will purposely inflate the cost of the change order to persuade the buyer not to make the change. Don't buy appliances from the builder. They are always at least 30 percent higher than the store. Believe it or not, a lot of buyers will ask the builder to do something that is not allowed by the Building Code. Or they want us to "change it" after the inspection. Sometimes the buyer will even threaten to back out of the contract if we don't change something after the city has inspected it. Especially in the cases where a fence threatens the size of the yard the buyer thought they were going to get. Or the eletric utilities had to be relocated because Centerpoint came out and decided their was not enough clearance and would pose a fire or electrocution hazzard. Oh yea... That's all my fault.

Why do buyers think they are going to "make sure their house is perfect"? NO SUCH ANIMAL!!! We are human, we don't know what perfection is and by all means do not have the technology or financial means to achieve it. Keep praying. It is as close as you will get to perfection... If you have to get twelve inches from the sheetrock to see a paint imperfection then you have an anal personality and need to live in a bubble with the highest air filtration available for fear of the tiniest dust particle entering your airspace. Do you really think your going to move in without hitting the walls at some point? Do you think you are never going to wear high heals on those $20,000.00 wood floors and not leave a dent where you put your heel down??? Get real people.

This is why a lot of talented builders leave the industry. People think they can treat us like animals. If you treat me like an animal, then I will shut you down on every request just to make you even more mad. Guess what.... I will almost always win.

Now look at it this way. If you treat me as an equal, I will be equally cordial and responsive to your concerns and your requests. Sounds bad doesn't it? Well, have a forty something man or woman; who thinks you are uneducated; talk down to you all the while you know your income is equal to his or her combined household income. That is the childish part on my behalf. At the least, I have to satisfy the contractual obligations. I do not have to be nice.

This is a rant that I would never admit to in public. I have only once yelled at a buyer and that was due to him cussing me. In the worst of situations I have tried to benefit the buyer. I just get tired of people throwing out wild assumptions about homebuilders as a whole.

Later, ,atbe I will expand on this to give insight on how the corporate side makes the construction process rediculous.

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We backed out of our contract with In-Town Homes, builder of Lake Pointe off 610 and Buffalo Speedway. We were in the middle of signing a contract for a pre-constucted home two years ago, when the environmental addendum came up. The sales associate told us hurriedly that it was a mineral rights addendum and that we needed to sign it to waive rights if oil was found on our property. RED FLAG. 1) The project is sitting on top of an old oil field 2) Are you kidding me, mineral rights? It turns out that it was an addendum waiving any rights should the property be found contaminated later down the road. I asked right away for a copy of the environmental inspection and was shown a 6" binder of the report. When our sale associate was about to make me a copy, a second associated called Frank right away and then ran down hysterically saying that I was not allowed to see that report. So, I called my attorney. After speaking with my attorney, he advised us against buying the house. The second associate immediately told us we could look at the report for as long as we would like, but we could not have a copy of it or take it off premises. Makes sense since the report is worth a few hundred bucks. However, the addendum did state that a copy of the environmental assessment would be available upon request (you have to read the fine print). Anyway, long story short, we postponed signing and found a ton of forums and articles on Lovett Homes, In-Town Homes, and Frank Liu. Most of it was negative. Thank goodness we did not buy from him. We have convinced a number of friends who are prospective buyers to stay clear of Frank and his properties. Thanks for starting this thread!!

::This post has been edited by Editor::

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, builderbob, thanks for representing the builder side of things so candidly. Now I know why the homebuilding experience sucks. So you are telling me that when you buy a home, that you should never get what you pay for. If the contract says I get A and B and the builder says, screw you, you get X and Y...hey that's the builder's perogative. Nice. Your "point" has also been clearly made. Salary bonus. Understood.

What I think you as a builder should understand is that buying a home is a very emotional experience. Do you ever think about where the buyer is coming from? This may be a buyer's first home. They are spending a serious amount of money on a home. They are financially and emotionally invested. How are we supposed to feel we don't get what we want and then get blown off? Who's demanding perfection? You mean I can't expect to have an empty backyard or the tile colors that I chose for a bathroom?! So if I buy a car with a black interior and I end up getting a car with a tan interior...too bad so sad?!? That's ridiculous.

I don't think YOU as a builder understands how much protection you get from your lobbyists and the law. I love how proud of the fact that you make X amount as a builder, when I as a consumer, who probably doesn't make half what you make, but can't expect to get a house that we want. Nice attitude buddy. When I buy a car at least consumer protection laws apply. Not so for homes. What remedies do we have? This forum. Arbitration. BBB? Ha! Really attractive choices. In other words, we should harken back to medieval days of buyer beware.

You know what I think about builders could do? At least give two cents about what the buyer is saying. Don't blow us off and come back with a flat no. At least understand where we coming from. You've made it abundantly clear why you don't want to do change orders. You will lose money. Fine. At least give us the courtesy of being somewhat flexible. Geez. I sincerely hope your opinions do not reflect the majority of builders out there.

American Capitalism, "the right of any business." Well, let me salute the flag and then bend over for you, my friend.

My 2 cents...

"Will not negotiate price"??? Who cares.... That is the right of any business. That is American Capitalism. Don't buy it if the price is not in your reach.

"One sided contract"??? Of coarse it is.... Why else would there be a contract. If you don't like the verbage in the contract, don't sign it.

These two topics are lame excuses to whine about poor choices. I have been a builder for "X" number of years for various builders, production and custom. It never ceases to amaze me that people will complain about the deal they got on their home... That deal is controlled by your signature at contract and closing. You either close the deal or walk away. You should have made a solid decision before signing the earnest money contract.

The statement above is the only thing a buyer has total control over until they sign. Defects in construction and poor quality and poor customer service are obviously the builder's responsibility.

I know of Lovett Homes and their style of building. Structurally speaking, I would trust their townhome product against a Perry Home product any day of the week, Lumber quality is better and they use twice as much. Lovett Homes, Perry Homes, TriCon Homes and all the others are production builders. Lovett's townhome product is a high end production home. If you bought a Lovett Townhome for $600,00.00 or less, you bought a production home. Like it or not, it is not a true custom home. Ask a true custom builder about this and you will see I am correct.

Quality is set by every Homebuilder in the presentation of their model home. If you bought based on what you saw in a model home then that is the highest level of quality you can expect. Anything else is a bonus from that point on. The model home is the product they are selling.

Every homebuilder tries to load up their superintendants with as many homes as they can handle or not handle. I have had as many as 22 homes under my care at once. Is that a manageable load? NO, clearly not. Is it my choice? NO, I would rather have six to ten houses and be able to enjoy my family and friends. At the same time my bread and butter is bonus money. The faster I can build the home, typically the more I make on the back end in bonus. A good superintendant should be able to make 30 to 40 percent of his salary in bonus.

Change orders requested by buyers are discouraged because it causes delays in the construction time. Many times the builder will purposely inflate the cost of the change order to persuade the buyer not to make the change. Don't buy appliances from the builder. They are always at least 30 percent higher than the store. Believe it or not, a lot of buyers will ask the builder to do something that is not allowed by the Building Code. Or they want us to "change it" after the inspection. Sometimes the buyer will even threaten to back out of the contract if we don't change something after the city has inspected it. Especially in the cases where a fence threatens the size of the yard the buyer thought they were going to get. Or the eletric utilities had to be relocated because Centerpoint came out and decided their was not enough clearance and would pose a fire or electrocution hazzard. Oh yea... That's all my fault.

Why do buyers think they are going to "make sure their house is perfect"? NO SUCH ANIMAL!!! We are human, we don't know what perfection is and by all means do not have the technology or financial means to achieve it. Keep praying. It is as close as you will get to perfection... If you have to get twelve inches from the sheetrock to see a paint imperfection then you have an anal personality and need to live in a bubble with the highest air filtration available for fear of the tiniest dust particle entering your airspace. Do you really think your going to move in without hitting the walls at some point? Do you think you are never going to wear high heals on those $20,000.00 wood floors and not leave a dent where you put your heel down??? Get real people.

This is why a lot of talented builders leave the industry. People think they can treat us like animals. If you treat me like an animal, then I will shut you down on every request just to make you even more mad. Guess what.... I will almost always win.

Now look at it this way. If you treat me as an equal, I will be equally cordial and responsive to your concerns and your requests. Sounds bad doesn't it? Well, have a forty something man or woman; who thinks you are uneducated; talk down to you all the while you know your income is equal to his or her combined household income. That is the childish part on my behalf. At the least, I have to satisfy the contractual obligations. I do not have to be nice.

This is a rant that I would never admit to in public. I have only once yelled at a buyer and that was due to him cussing me. In the worst of situations I have tried to benefit the buyer. I just get tired of people throwing out wild assumptions about homebuilders as a whole.

Later, ,atbe I will expand on this to give insight on how the corporate side makes the construction process rediculous.

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Well, builderbob, thanks for representing the builder side of things so candidly. Now I know why the homebuilding experience sucks. So you are telling me that when you buy a home, that you should never get what you pay for. If the contract says I get A and B and the builder says, screw you, you get X and Y...hey that's the builder's perogative. Nice. Your "point" has also been clearly made. Salary bonus. Understood.

What I think you as a builder should understand is that buying a home is a very emotional experience. Do you ever think about where the buyer is coming from? This may be a buyer's first home. They are spending a serious amount of money on a home. They are financially and emotionally invested. How are we supposed to feel we don't get what we want and then get blown off? Who's demanding perfection? You mean I can't expect to have an empty backyard or the tile colors that I chose for a bathroom?! So if I buy a car with a black interior and I end up getting a car with a tan interior...too bad so sad?!? That's ridiculous.

I don't think YOU as a builder understands how much protection you get from your lobbyists and the law. I love how proud of the fact that you make X amount as a builder, when I as a consumer, who probably doesn't make half what you make, but can't expect to get a house that we want. Nice attitude buddy. When I buy a car at least consumer protection laws apply. Not so for homes. What remedies do we have? This forum. Arbitration. BBB? Ha! Really attractive choices. In other words, we should harken back to medieval days of buyer beware.

You know what I think about builders could do? At least give two cents about what the buyer is saying. Don't blow us off and come back with a flat no. At least understand where we coming from. You've made it abundantly clear why you don't want to do change orders. You will lose money. Fine. At least give us the courtesy of being somewhat flexible. Geez. I sincerely hope your opinions do not reflect the majority of builders out there.

American Capitalism, "the right of any business." Well, let me salute the flag and then bend over for you, my friend.

Wow. In addition to the comments above, I have seen these lately:

1. "wrong again, as always"

2. "I think I may know more about what you write than you do"

The tenor of the group has changed over the last several months.

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Well, it's no secret that the tenor of this particular thread has always been biased and negative to begin with. It shouldn't surprise you that when a builder gets on this thread, spouting out money and capitalism as the American way, somebody is going to say something. I'm sure builderbob will soon respond with an equally indignant retort of some kind. I was just awestruck that a builder had the audacity to tell all of us consumers that we are all a bunch of woodsheds, and that we should know better.

Wow. In addition to the comments above, I have seen these lately:

1. "wrong again, as always"

2. "I think I may know more about what you write than you do"

The tenor of the group has changed over the last several months.

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I'm not going to completely agree with Bob in this thread, but I am a builder as well and can tell you that every purchase of a home both new and used should be "buyer beware".

When shopping for a home you have to look beyond the floor plans and finishes. Ask the builder what sort of inspections they do. For what it is worth, my company is building in a community along with Perry. They build homes in our community in about 65-70 days whereas we build in about 90 days. The only real difference is in what inspections we are subjected to. Our corporate office forces us to go through 2 inspections prior to pouring the slab including having an inspector present during the pour. We then have a windstorm inspection and roof decking inspection to ensure we meet all windstorm requirements even though my community is not in a windstorm area. After that we have a pre-drywall inspection to review the frame, cornice, systems (elec, plumb, hvac) and are not allowed to hang sheetrock until the inspection is passed. Furthermore, we have an Energy Star inspection to verify that all batt insulation and foam sealing of the house is up to gov't code which this year became a zero tolerance policy. After that we're subject to a final inspection (similar to that of a private inspector when buying a completed home) that must be completely passed and another Energy Star inspection on the house.

By contrast, Perry does a pre-pour inspection, Energy Star, water inspection and then final. I can assure you our homes are much tighter, but unless you ask about inspections and the construction process when you are shopping you'd never know there might be a difference. No matter what, EVERY buyer should hire an inspector to check the home during the construction process.

Now, in regards to your tile problems, that really sounds like you had an unfortunate experience. I'm sure that similar problems have occurred with Lovett that did not lead to your end result. It's always a case of 'he said, she said' and without all the evidence it wouldn't be fair to state agreement with one side or the other. I will say that customer service should be #1 within the context of what can be done according to the sales contract only. Any change must be agreed to and paid for and the implications of making that change need to be clarified to the buyer. It should also be made clear that many changes just are not possible depending on what stage the home is currently in and what selections may have already been ordered. Just because you want something as a buyer doesn't mean you're going to get it.

You also need to understand that the entire building process is done by sub-contractors. Our job as builders is to make sure these guys get out and do their jobs on time and to a certain standard. A builder might use 2-10 different framing companies so a bow in a wall or other minor defects are more of a unluck of the draw. It isn't necessarily indicative of the builder, which is why I highly recommed having your own inspector. The more eyes that review a house the more likely you'll be to spot the defects before it is too late or will cause problems.

While we're on the subject of complaining about builders/contractors, Village Plumbing is a rip. Just because they charge more than everyone else does not mean they are of higher quality. Plumbing is fairly simple work that most homeowners could do if they wanted, so paying a premium for perceived "quality" seems like a misuse of funds. But such is life and we all get to choose how we spend our $. That being said, the complaints of Frank Liu being "greedy" or whatever else are unecessary and reveal that emotions are guiding the comments rather than thought. We all work for a living to make $$$, and I'd venture to say that most of us wish we could make as much $$ as Mr. Liu. I do not blame anyone directly for wanting their business to be as profitable as they can make it. If they are truly building bad products and have rampant problems with quality and service, then they won't be in business long, however we all know that Lovett has been around a while and is successful. People happy with a product will rarely speak up, it is the ones who are unhappy who'll always make the most noise.

That is MY 2 cents... a penny for your thoughts?

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I'm not going to completely agree with Bob in this thread, but I am a builder as well and can tell you that every purchase of a home both new and used should be "buyer beware".

If you remember "buyer beware" is what former Comptroller Carol Strayhorn said buying a new home should not be. Lay people are paying the "professinals" to do a job and one would assume they would do it correctly, certainly not to the point of serious defects. Consumer reports stated a while back over 15% of new homes have serious defects; that could be anywhere from 150,000 on up.

Homes, new or exisitng should be inspected by a purchasers own independent inspector, one who has been around a while and has a good reputation. It is worth every penny on that one, imo.

When you start telling people to expect problems you are giving yourself away.

There are too many variables involved to take a builder's name and tell anyone they will get a good home. Example-experience of the supervisior, do they care if they get it right, how many homes are they in charge of, who are the sub-contractors etc.

No one can be guaranteed perfection. What is important is if defects do occur how will the builder handle the problem? That IMO is what makes the difference.

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You may not care to hear it, but problems with construction will ALWAYS happen. Nearly all are very minor and would result in cosmetic deficiencies. But you still need to have inspectors check and double check homes. Framers will nearly always miss a few items on a house be it joist hangers, rat runs, stiffbacks not being complete, a double joist needed etc..etc.. Plumbers usually get their things right, but often times the other trades will cause damage to their work. At any rate, I could go on and on, but unless you have built homes you cannot understand the challenges involved and the sheer scope of systems/items that need to be reviewed. That is why I urge every buyer to check into the company's policy regarding their own inspections and also hire your own.

I don't really care what One Tough Granny says about building homes. To make the process where you have nearly no defects would cause the prices of homes to go through the roof to the point that average people couldn't afford them. Take a look at Tillman Fertitta's home on hcad. It is a grade X+ I believe which is the highest or right at the highest grade home you can construct. Even his home is likely to have some issues arrise.

All homes come with warranties to take care of these things. I realize that doesn't solve every problem or even comfort many who do have major issues, but it isn't much different than the automobile industry. You just have to realize that occasionally things will happen.

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My experience with a bad home builder

Back in the late 70s, my wife and I bought a new house in the Fallbrook Subdivision on West Rd at Steubner-Airline. Fallbrook was developed by an outfit called Suburban Homes, which, we later learned, had one of the worst reputations for customer service and satisfaction in town.

A few weeks after we moved in, some small but very irritating problems started cropping up. I can't remember what they were, but they were related to the construction, and annoying enough for me to call Suburban Homes and ask them to come fix them. I called at least four times over a week, but my calls were ignored. Nobody ever showed up, so I decided to play hard ball.

Suburban was still building a lot of spec houses in Fallbrook, selling them as fast as they could build them, and prospective buyers were always driving through looking at the new houses. So, I got a 4X8 foot piece of plywood, and painted these words on it, in large letters. "Don't buy a Suburban Home. You'll regret it". I placed the sign in my front yard.

About two hours after the sign went up, I got a call from the very perturbed construction superintendent at Suburban Homes demanding that I take it down. I told him the sign would stay where it was until he sent someone out to fix the problems I had been calling them about for a week. That conversation happened around 11am. Around 2pm, a truckload of workers pulled up at my house, and all the little problems had been fixed by 5pm. I let them take the sign with them when they left.

Our experience with Suburban Homes taught my wife and me some hard lessons about buying a new house, lessons that held us in good stead in future home purchases. They were known for building on the cheap and selling at cheap prices to inexperienced first time low-end buyers like us. I was not surprised, and I remember smiling, when Suburban went out of business in the 1980s.

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You may not care to hear it, but problems with construction will ALWAYS happen. Nearly all are very minor and would result in cosmetic deficiencies. But you still need to have inspectors check and double check homes. Framers will nearly always miss a few items on a house be it joist hangers, rat runs, stiffbacks not being complete, a double joist needed etc..etc.. Plumbers usually get their things right, but often times the other trades will cause damage to their work. At any rate, I could go on and on, but unless you have built homes you cannot understand the challenges involved and the sheer scope of systems/items that need to be reviewed. That is why I urge every buyer to check into the company's policy regarding their own inspections and also hire your own.

I don't really care what One Tough Granny says about building homes. To make the process where you have nearly no defects would cause the prices of homes to go through the roof to the point that average people couldn't afford them. Take a look at Tillman Fertitta's home on hcad. It is a grade X+ I believe which is the highest or right at the highest grade home you can construct. Even his home is likely to have some issues arrise.

All homes come with warranties to take care of these things. I realize that doesn't solve every problem or even comfort many who do have major issues, but it isn't much different than the automobile industry. You just have to realize that occasionally things will happen.

I have no idea where you have come up with the information you stated. Nearly all are very minor, the plumber gets it right, framers will nearly always miss...etc

My personal experience with a "new Home", the plumber got it all wrong- my inspector caught it. Plumber was in the home at time of inspection and was put out the inspector had him go back and fix things.

Have you seen consumer web sites on new housing? There seem to be so many of them. Have you seen the pictures, met the people- I have. There is interest on this issue at a national level. As far as those warranties I was told by several people nearly 90% of the claims are turned down. I believe it because when I tried to submit a claim for a foundation problem I was told to hire 2 engineers, get written documentation, the cracks had to be ... and then they would determine if they would send someone out.

I would assume you are a builder. If so your thoughts on TRCC?

Have you seen HB1686 filed by Rep. Ruth McClendon. Fabulous bill. Outstanidng. It already has someof the biggest construction companies in the country talking.

Please, go on some of the sites and see "the minor defects and cosmetic deficiencies..." you speak of.

If you area builder and all you ever do is come up with the aforementioned minor deficiencies then it is too bad you did not build my house.

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You may not care to hear it, but problems with construction will ALWAYS happen. Nearly all are very minor and would result in cosmetic deficiencies. But you still need to have inspectors check and double check homes. Framers will nearly always miss a few items on a house be it joist hangers, rat runs, stiffbacks not being complete, a double joist needed etc..etc.. Plumbers usually get their things right, but often times the other trades will cause damage to their work. At any rate, I could go on and on, but unless you have built homes you cannot understand the challenges involved and the sheer scope of systems/items that need to be reviewed. That is why I urge every buyer to check into the company's policy regarding their own inspections and also hire your own.

I don't really care what One Tough Granny says about building homes. To make the process where you have nearly no defects would cause the prices of homes to go through the roof to the point that average people couldn't afford them. Take a look at Tillman Fertitta's home on hcad. It is a grade X+ I believe which is the highest or right at the highest grade home you can construct. Even his home is likely to have some issues arrise.

All homes come with warranties to take care of these things. I realize that doesn't solve every problem or even comfort many who do have major issues, but it isn't much different than the automobile industry. You just have to realize that occasionally things will happen.

No kidding! That doesn't mean that the homebuilders can't come back and fix the problems though. Defects will always occur, but they can always fix the mistakes they've made. Let's face it, homes built nowdays are of lower quality than those of 20yrs ago. They're cranking these things out like there is no tomorrow.

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No kidding! That doesn't mean that the homebuilders can't come back and fix the problems though. Defects will always occur, but they can always fix the mistakes they've made. Let's face it, homes built nowdays are of lower quality than those of 20yrs ago. They're cranking these things out like there is no tomorrow.

That is the point. If one ends up with a bad house the builder should fix it. If it turns out the home is not inhabitable or marketable because the defects are so bad it just needs to be bought back. I will not go through this buyer beware issue.

I just came back from the store and a guy was complaining about his 6 month old new home. Said it was just falling apart and he can't get his builder to fix it. Another guy in back of him said a new group of townhomes went up near where he lives. He said you can see the mold growing. Also indicated people have had to move out. It just goes on and on.

I would just like to see this new house bill pass. At least consumers would have some protection.

For me, it is about acting in an ethical manner and doing the right thing. We seemed to have lost that ethic somewhere along the line.

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  • 1 year later...

Well, it's been awhile since anybody has posted on this thread. However, I'm so glad it has generated so many responses. In fact, this thread still pops up as the number 2 link if you do a search for Lovett Homes. Awesome! The power of the type-written word! Anyway, I am posting to inform you all that Lovett Homes has tried to start a blog in an apparent effort to generate some positive press. I'm not going to post the link, but there have only been minimal responses to the blog so far. Kinda pathetic if you ask me. I wonder, though, if that lame attempt at a blog is also a response to this thread. Bet Frank Liu never knew how effective an open Internet forum could be. Anyway, thanks again for all of your responses. Stay away from Lovett!

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As for me never again. My builder still has a good rating with the BBB and my experience with the BBB was as bad as the piece of garbage my builder threw together for me. I can't help thinking about the 3 Little Pigs. My house is comparable to Pig 1and 2.

I would not know who to go to to end up like pig3.

If you have not been on the HOBB.org site do so. It is an education to be had as far as homebuilding.

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Thanks a million! I feel much better about the husband making on offer. The critters sound great -- I haven't caught a crawfish on a string since I was a kid! Looking forward to it!

Again, thank you.

Jess Cook

Whaaat? :wacko:

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