TMC Developments Vs. Uptown Dallas Development

[editor]

This topic was created in 2005, yet it keeps getting bumped every time someone responds to the poll. Is it possible to make it so that poll responses don't bump a thread after, say, three months of the original post?

Yes. But the fact that someone took the time to vote in the thread's poll is an indication of recent interest in the topic.

[ricco67]

Yes. But the fact that someone took the time to vote in the thread's poll is an indication of recent interest in the topic.

That and there is always the possibility of gaining from fresh perspective on the topic from a new user.

Provide some members don't beat them down into submission and make them cry.

[DrLan34]

I read this article today on my continental flight. Some excellent news about the TMC.

http://www.bisnow.co...ory.php?p=11195

"When the $7 billion worth of projects now underway at Texas Medical Center are completed in 2014, the center will rank as the country's seventh-largest business district - larger than downtown Los Angeles."

[LTAWACS]

I've lived at the Spires for over a year now (40 story condo tower just East of the TMC) and units rarely come on the market there. Right now, there are less than ten available in a building with 230 units.

You should post some photos of the view from there. Im sure they will be awesome.

[DefenDallas]

Med Center, hands down. I don't know raw numbers but I do know they throw up 30+ story towers at TMC like they're playing with Legos. Was it the city of Houston or UT that had the idea to consolidate all that medical in one area, or was it something else entirely?? Whoever it was, they made a brilliant move. Dallas's medical centers are spread all over the place, much like everything else in this city.

As for Uptown, the lower end (Victory Park) got some height in the last decade, but it was all spec building based on the belief that an arena plus high-end retail would make people flock at all hours. They flocked, but only for basketball or hockey, and immediately scattered after games. They sure weren't going to drop $60 for a steak. Then the recession hit, and you know the rest of the story... Epic fail. But the other end of Uptown, west village/state-thomas, has been a success for the most part. There's a lively scene along McKinney ave. with new resaurants and bars opening up all the time, and the trolley is eye-pleasing, if nothing else. State-Thomas is a successful urban infill project, with wide sidewalks and tons of townhouses and apts. (and yes, they're occupied). But TMC is just massive. I don't see Uptown Dallas, or any neighborhood up here for that matter, ever catching up.

[TxDave]

It would be more realistic to compare TMC to Dallas' Medical District and/or Market Center - all are business districts - TMC wins, hands down

Uptown Dallas should be compared to Midtown Houston - both urban neighborhoods adjacent to downtown - in this case Dallas probably wins

[LTAWACS]

KinkaidAlum where are you?

[HOUCAJUN]

It would be more realistic to compare TMC to Dallas' Medical District and/or Market Center - all are business districts - TMC wins, hands down

Uptown Dallas should be compared to Midtown Houston - both urban neighborhoods adjacent to downtown - in this case Dallas probably wins

I agree, but who cares what goes on in Dallas? This city is too large to worry or compare to a much smaller city. We as Houstonians should focus our attention to cities like LA Chicao, and Philly.This topic should be more relevant in a San Antonio forum.

[Joe Bloh]

The medical area/district in Houston was impressive when we went thru there 2years ago... but The Parkland Medical District is BIGGER and is Growing. Also, there are various apartment complexes popping-up, giving it a Very "urbanesque" feel and look. They just broke ground on another apt complex (possible high-rise.

And, the University of Texas buildings and facilities nearby actually ADD to the size of Parkland. I Love the Big D. !

ps... this site is cool! I'm an architecture enthusiast .

[Joe Bloh]

I agree, but who cares what goes on in Dallas? This city is too large to worry or compare to a much smaller city. We as Houstonians should focus our attention to cities like LA Chicao, and Philly.This topic should be more relevant in a San Antonio forum.

[Joe Bloh]

Your comment is right-on and to the point. but.. Houston only has a bigger 'population'. Dallas has a more impressive Skyline all the way around.

Also, I believe Houston/Harris county is the size of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.

When comparing the Metroplex to Harris County, the Metroplex dwarfs it in population AND Structures.

Neither Dallas OR Houston can compare themselves to Chicago :/ ...yet.

[Joe Bloh]

Med Center, hands down. I don't know raw numbers but I do know they throw up 30+ story towers at TMC like they're playing with Legos. Was it the city of Houston or UT that had the idea to consolidate all that medical in one area, or was it something else entirely?? Whoever it was, they made a brilliant move. Dallas's medical centers are spread all over the place, much like everything else in this city.

As for Uptown, the lower end (Victory Park) got some height in the last decade, but it was all spec building based on the belief that an arena plus high-end retail would make people flock at all hours. They flocked, but only for basketball or hockey, and immediately scattered after games. They sure weren't going to drop $60 for a steak. Then the recession hit, and you know the rest of the story... Epic fail. But the other end of Uptown, west village/state-thomas, has been a success for the most part. There's a lively scene along McKinney ave. with new resaurants and bars opening up all the time, and the trolley is eye-pleasing, if nothing else. State-Thomas is a successful urban infill project, with wide sidewalks and tons of townhouses and apts. (and yes, they're occupied). But TMC is just massive. I don't see Uptown Dallas, or any neighborhood up here for that matter, ever catching up.

[Joe Bloh]

I agree with your comment, but... this was 2years ago. !

Have you kept up with all the added changes in Dallas' Medical District? Very impressive. And it's not stopping. !

[TheNiche]

The medical area/district in Houston was impressive when we went thru there 2years ago... but The Parkland Medical District is BIGGER and is Growing. Also, there are various apartment complexes popping-up, giving it a Very "urbanesque" feel and look. They just broke ground on another apt complex (possible high-rise.

And, the University of Texas buildings and facilities nearby actually ADD to the size of Parkland. I Love the Big D. !

ps... this site is cool! I'm an architecture enthusiast .

Your statements are factually incorrect.

According to the Southwest Medical District's own website, there are only 1,923 licensed hospital beds, 26,878 employees and 4,590 students. It is comprised of only three member institutions spanning 390 acres.

By comparison, the Texas Medical Center in Houston has 6,900 licensed hospital beds, 92,500 employees, 34,000 full time students. It is comprised of 52 member institutions spanning 1,300 acres.

Furthermore, it has about as much built square footage as downtown Houston has office space (which for your reference, is 28% more than Dallas has in its entire downtown area, or can be thought of as the combined total amount of office space in both downtown Dallas and downtown Fort Worth combined).

The ultimate capacity of the Texas Medical Center is 59 million square feet, or more than twice the square footage of downtown Dallas. Of course, I doubt that the TMC institutions would ever allow for a chronically high vacancy rate, pushing 27%, the way that downtown Dallas has been.

[Mister X]

Is that cat drunk?

[kbates2]

Your comment is right-on and to the point. but.. Houston only has a bigger 'population'. Dallas has a more impressive Skyline all the way around.

Also, I believe Houston/Harris county is the size of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.

When comparing the Metroplex to Harris County, the Metroplex dwarfs it in population AND Structures.

Neither Dallas OR Houston can compare themselves to Chicago :/ ...yet.

Couldn't disagree more on the skyline. I actually really dislike the Dallas skyline. The building outlined in lights is hideous. Houston's is way bigger, taller, and has about 3 - 4 buildings I like more than any 1 building in Dallas' downtown.

[Houston19514]

Your comment is right-on and to the point. but.. Houston only has a bigger 'population'. Dallas has a more impressive Skyline all the way around.

Also, I believe Houston/Harris county is the size of the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex.

When comparing the Metroplex to Harris County, the Metroplex dwarfs it in population AND Structures.

Neither Dallas OR Houston can compare themselves to Chicago :/ ...yet.

Dude, are you in some kind of contest to see who can make the most fact-free posts?

[tamtagon]

TMC versus Uptown is a weird comparison, and probably started just because they were the parts of Dallas and Houston really growing, building on the relative uniqueness within all South Central US cities....

To me, the value of this boom-hood discussion is anecdotal evidence that Houston and Dallas are becoming less similar cities.

[Mister X]

[wernicke]

The medical area/district in Houston was impressive when we went thru there 2years ago... but The Parkland Medical District is BIGGER and is Growing. Also, there are various apartment complexes popping-up, giving it a Very "urbanesque" feel and look. They just broke ground on another apt complex (possible high-rise.

And, the University of Texas buildings and facilities nearby actually ADD to the size of Parkland.

Sorry, but your statement is not accurate.

I went to medical school in the TMC and am currently a resident at UTSW/Parkland... there is no comparison between what you call "Parkland Medical District" and the TMC. TMC has something like 35-40 million square feet, which would be top ten for US cities CBD's (larger than Dallas CBD). There is nothing else like it on earth, let alone Dallas.

There are about 5 institutions clustered along Harry Hines in Dallas (Parkland, Children's, TWU nursing, UTSW medical school/research buildings, and UTSW's University Hospitals)... which is nothing to sniff at. New Parkland will certainly be 10x nicer than Ben Taub.

[strickn]

link

[strickn]

photography by Justin Terveen (flickr ninjatune)

[Mister X]

[strickn]

I don't see TMC in there anywhere. But urbanistically, 'towers in a park' get failing grades.

[Mister X]

I thought it was important to post photos comparing Houston majestic Uptown with dallas cheezy, low lying, pathetic uptown photos since as someone pointed out comparing Houston's TMC with dallas' uptown was weird. I don't have a problem comparing Houston's uptown with dallas' pitiful excuse for an uptown (or downtown) at all.

And BTW, "towers in a park" is an improvement on 'urbanity'. Failing grades? I don't think so. That just sounds like what someone who's jealous of Houston's world class skyline would say in a fit of envious rage.

Enjoy some more "urbanistic" failings from these out of date photos.

[strickn]

"To me, the value of this boom-hood discussion is anecdotal evidence that Houston and Dallas are becoming less similar cities."

[Mister X]

Thank God! Houston seems to build things out of actual need driven by demand. dallas seems to build things just to TRY to keep up with Houston.

[Trae]

Uptown Dallas' skyline may not he as large as Uptown Houston, but UD is more dense and urban. Wide sidewalks and good human scale developments. The Dallas city leaders have really done a great job planning that area. It feels extremely sterile, but it looks nice. Also has light rail and trolley lines.

[TheNiche]

The Dallas city leaders have really done a great job planning that area. It feels extremely sterile, but it looks nice.

That's why I hate Dallas. It's overplanned and sterile. The best thing about Dallas is Fort Worth.

[Mister X]

Uptown Dallas' skyline may not he as large as Uptown Houston, but UD is more dense and urban. Wide sidewalks and good human scale developments. The Dallas city leaders have really done a great job planning that area. It feels extremely sterile, but it looks nice. Also has light rail and trolley lines.

That may be true, but urbanistically, it is certainly not on the same scale as DD or DH or TMC. Like Uptown Houston it is mostly comprised of 'towers in a park' (which I don't think is a bad thing) and is definitely much, MUCH lower, shorter and stumpier. It also takes up a smaller area.

I think the only thing UD has going for it, is it's proximity to DD. At certain angles (usually from miles to the west of the Trinity sewer) the 2 skylines appear as one (as indicated by the photo that Strikn provided a link to), giving the illusion that it is one cohesive unit - which it is not.

Unfortunately, most people never see the UD/DD skylines from that angle, because that area is generally regarded as a major merde-hole (nobody ever post photos 1 mile west of DD or beyond) and is mostly avoided by people who enjoy living.